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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 03 2009 : 5:40:14 PM
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Is pure awareness truly beyond suffering. I mean, at the root of it, isn't awareness the cause of all suffering. It's a gift none the less, just life as it is... but I really don't get it. I like Buddhism, enjoy reading and abiding (not fully) in the eightfold path, but to say that pure awareness is beyond suffering, I really don't get it. I've found my "center" before in meditation, and it seemed a certain "involved aloofness" to everything, but I still don't get it.
I was recalling a past life experience of mine, as a Zen buddhist, and I felt I left after some introspection on emptyness. That emptyness is form, form is emptyness, another thing I don't get. It seems to say that life is void of meaning or something along those lines... or that even to say this; is void of any meaning. Maybe things are void of meaning except that which we give them. It's kind of bugging me. I understand that all things are impermanent, but to say all form is empty; it seems to suck the juice out of life, out of "moments". Aren't we all just after those beautiful little moments in life.
I sorta find it makes sense in a "no mind" kind of way, as if the mind cannot ascertain the truth of things. In that way I get it. I bet even the Buddha enjoyed "little moments"... the flower sutra comes to mind :). I think I get it in a "stop thinking it" kind of way... as if everything I just wrote is pretty empty of what really matters.
I'm curious to hear your points of view on the topic. Thanks in advance :). |
Edited by - Divineis on Jul 03 2009 5:44:18 PM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2009 : 7:08:56 PM
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hmm, death comes to mind. The crown chakra. The birth AND death of all form. This fact of life. Die to the moment they say... ok. hahaha
gone, ehh ehhhh, gone... ahhhh haha |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2009 : 7:19:47 PM
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Hi Divineis,
The famous line from the Heart Sutra - "Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form" simply means that .... well .... that form is actually emptiness, and emptiness is actually form.
That's all.
Not empty of meaning.
Just empty.
This isn't just a "woo-woo" "out there" Buddhist doctrine kinda thing ... it's an actuality kinda thing.
Albert Einstein said: "It's all emptiness; matter is just condensed emptiness."
How's that?
Over 99% of the physical space of every atom is just that: space only.
What about the matter part?
What's the matter?
The proton, the neutron ... the electron?
Protons and neutrons were thought to be particles with a positive and neutral charge, respectively ... but as the ability to measure improved ... scientists found ... no particles; just sub-atomic oscillations - probably (<- literally; quantum physics is now returning to the original incorporation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which states that electrons, proton and neutrons are all waves -- all -- waves).
Do you get the implications of this (anyone)?
There's NO solid matter; no particles .... not anywhere; there's space .... and space oscillating within space; that's all.
Form is some of that oscillating space (aka the thought-called-me) perceiving (aka the thought-called-me's senses) some of that oscillating space (the thought-called-me's objects of perception).
What's *actually* happening?
Who knows?
Who *could* know?
It's a relative, sliding scale .... I'm awareness, feeling kinda like Kirtanman, writing these words ... you're awareness feeling kinda like and/or a lot like Divineis, or whoever else may be reading -- or not (just like I sometimes feel a lot like Kirtanman, sometimes not ... and sometimes kinda ... like now) .... if you're an electron(ic) pulse ... it likely feels different; ditto if you're a sun, or an aardvark.
Expansion. Contraction. In-Between. Repeat as desired.
Expansion .... like *Spandex* ... that's why they call it *Spanda* (no kidding ... Sanskrit kinda ... got around ... Indo-European language-wise).
See the Yoga Spandakarika for details.
Awareness is indeed free from suffering .... because awareness *precedes* (supercedes, succeeds) suffering.
The thoughts that create suffering, including the thought-called-me, is created *within* the field of pure awareness.
At the level of pure awareness - Caitanyamatma - Unbound Awareness is Self (Shiva Sutra 1.1).
At the level of thinking mind - Cittam Atma - Limited Mind is Self (Shiva Sutra 3.1) ... as in: "I think I am who I *think* I am."
When you feel Cittam Atma ("I think I am who I think I am") .. Caitanyamatma hasn't gone anywhere; if Caitanyamatma wasn't always here - nothing else would be.
Keep practicing, and you'll know this in your (so-called) own experiencing.
Enlightenment has nothing to do with a "dead awareness" that isn't fully *immersed* in LIVING this moment, fully .... that's just another thought-concept.
Enlightenment is what liberates us *to* enjoy life ... that's why Advaita Shaiva (aka Kashmir Shaivism) doesn't refer solely to "liberation" - but to "liberation & enjoyment". <-- The Kashmiri Shaivites were the yogis and yoginis who effectively codified Tantra; they know a thing or two about both (liberation & enjoyment).
Awareness is emptiness.
Form is awareness informed.
As the Advaita Shaiva guru Lalita Devi said:
"Just Jump In. THAT is the great yoga!"
The only purpose of transcendence is to help us drop the concepts of conditioned self, in order that we liberate into clear awareness of actual self -- from that/this point .... we savor the fullness of this moment, now -- free, clear .. and utterly immersed.
I hope this helps.
Intending Awareness of Awareness for All,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Jul 03 2009 7:25:57 PM |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 12:30:09 AM
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| I've often wondered how well the English word "emptiness" translated from whatever language the Buddha spoke during his time. I think the word in English has such a negative meaning that sometimes people new to Buddhism are somewhat turned off. I wonder if something like endless depth or eternal openness would better capture the nature of the original meaning? |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 02:26:44 AM
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| When you cling to a form in the dream world and try to take that form with you into the waking world, you quickly learn that you can't take that form with you. That's emptiness. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 06:26:55 AM
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Not empty, totally full, containing everything without separation. Like a soup, all the ingredients are in there but it is impossible to define them. The soup appears emtpy of everything as there is no individuality.
Space is the wrong word, think of a white canvas and you think of there being no painting but white light is reflected from that canvas and white light contains all the colours there will ever be and every painting that could ever be. Once the artist has painted on the canvas it becomes fixed, all other possibilities are no longer evident, it becomes one small part of the entire everything.
Between each beat of the drum is every type of sound, every bit of music, every dance. The drum beat is the lesser. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 1:03:17 PM
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Thanks guys. That helps out a lot. They're all conclusions I've basically already thought of. I especially love the white canvas analogy, I've used it a few times myself to explain things. I've known it a few times in samadhi. Good stuff :). Thanks again.
ANd Kirtanman... hehe, I used to say, Buddha was the first quantum physicist. He really was. The observer and the observed, truly are one. hehe Thanks again for the reply, it clears things up a little. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2009 : 3:28:22 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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awareness, suffering and emptyness
