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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 4:50:30 PM
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Namaste....
Been wondering a little about the cessation of karmic action and wondering if forgiveness would be a mechanism for this. Meaning karma could be defined as "movement" or cause and effect, but could the act of forgiving nulify this "movement" or "karmic effect"?
Love,
Carson |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 9:59:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Namaste....
Been wondering a little about the cessation of karmic action and wondering if forgiveness would be a mechanism for this. Meaning karma could be defined as "movement" or cause and effect, but could the act of forgiving nulify this "movement" or "karmic effect"?
Love,
Carson
YES.
One little infinitely important point of clarification, though:
In my emphatic YES - I'm referring to actual, literal forgiveness -- not conceptual forgiveness.
Literal - as in: what happens when actual (financial) debt is forgiven?
It no longer exists.
Every moment, now, is in actuality a fresh creation.
Any memory, imagination and/or conceptual overlay which causes this moment to be experienced in a way other than it actually is - displays a lack of (again, literal) forgiveness.
A Course In Miracles is entirely about the one true miracle:
Forgiveness.
How and/or why could forgiveness be such a big deal?
Because non-forgiveness creates the illusion of separation - a separate "me" who thinks it has separation from another separate "me" -- even if that separate me is "me", reflected in the thinking the me-thought calls memory, now -- and even if that me and/or the thoughts the me-thought thinks are evaluated via the memory this "me" thinks of as karma (where else could the concepts of "good" or "bad" karma come from, if not the thinking the thought-me thinks of as memory, now?)
It all begins to look like a house of mirrors quite quickly --- because it is a house of mirrors, just psychic-conceptual, rather than physical.
Forgiveness is simply another term for the state of clear-seeing - of unobstructed view -- the condition of the pure light of awareness shining, unobstructed, in order to be reflecting in, from and as the total, universal manifestation of this moment experiencing all of itself, now.
... as opposed to this moment creation thoughts of limitation via pre-distortion, by being prejudging (prejudicially) by creating the thought-subject (that is) thought-evaluating (what it thinks into existence as) thought-objects.
In reality, forgiveness is neither needed or real --- everything is - simply - as everything is.
However, forgiveness can indeed be a tool of near-infinite power, in realizing our self as One, Whole & Infinite.
How?
Just.
Let.
Go.
Of memory, of imagination; of evaluation, of concept.
Yogash Chitta Vrtti Nirodhah (Yoga Sutra 1.2)
Yoga (Union) is the setting aside of mind modifications.
The great secret of karma is this:
You don't create karma.
Karma creates *you*.
How?
"See Above" ----- by modifications made in, as and by the thinking mind.
Step away from the oscillations.
Let forgiveness, forgiver and forgiven dissolve into the One(ness) from which they arise, in which they are sustained and into which they dissolve-return.
What is This One?
I AM.
You AM, too.
Having said all that, though --- some conditioning runs deep, it seems - and the body may react emotionally even when surface thought "knows better".
The thinking-me wants to make it all complex and painful -- it's not.
Whether it's a momentary flutter ... or the heartbreak of a lifetime.
Just.
Let.
Go.
What if you're "sure" you can't?
Just let go until you can --- until one perfect moment, the true light of forgiveness --- the real and radiant actuality of this moment shines as the overflowing loving that we each and all infinitely, actually, eternally *are* - here and now.
And be clear on-about-as THIS:
Just because this perfect moment appears only to disappear - it can and will reappear, the next moment unforgiveness is forgiven, now.
Wholeness is *real* - wholeness is who and what we each and all *are*.
Awareness is undivided - nothing would or could exist if Awareness is or could be divided.
To the thinking mind, that statement might sound ludicrous.
Let this be a *major* clue.
You are *not* who you think you are --- you are the single, unified field of awareness in which *all* objects of consciousness are appearing-disappearing now.
The place where distinction never gazed ... because distinction arises as part of the shining-reflecting *of* the indistinction .... which always, ever can only be gazed *from*.
Forgiveness removes the apparent blocks to the awareness of the reality of the One Loving Now.
Non-forgiveness (<- the making of Un-forgiving, now) and karma are just concepts which appear to block the light of the Actual Loving Now.
As enlightenment is realized and deepens - constrictions (attention focusing on oscillations of the body-mind, to a point of non-focus of resting in awareness) can and likely will happen ---- but they're of much, much briefer duration and smaller intensity --- because identification no longer rests with the "unforgiven" -- the mind-made-me.
(Who could "not forgive", except a thought who feels it's a "me" that is unforgiven and/or unforgivable?)
Enlightenment is real.
Enlightenment is freedom beyond imagination.
Forgiveness can be one of the brightest lights in showing us we're already home.
Hope this helps.
Intending the Loving Peace of Utter Reality For All,
Kirtanman
Nothing Real Can Be Threatened.
Nothing Unreal Exists.
Herein Lies the Peace of God.
~A Course In Miracles |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Jun 23 2009 10:49:50 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 06:32:17 AM
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Hi Carson and Kirtanman (thanks for that lovely post - and yes to all of the above ).
Just feel like adding:
In order to deepen/broaden the letting go.....life has a way of putting one into situations where whatever is still is held onto will surface. That is why it is so important to engage in life - not withdraw from it. It is always like this.....the play of lila...is designed to wake one up. Not the opposite....despite all the seeming evidence to the contrary.
It all depends on how receptive one is.....that is why deep meditation is so crucial. It hones the instrument that enables perception....and it enables communion (and eventually conscious union) with that which discriminates.
When one can discriminate like this...letting go becomes spontaneous.....it replaces the unconscious knee-jerk reactions. First by will (a little conscious effort spurned by Bhakti)...then naturally more and more of itself.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 10:56:58 AM
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Namaste Kirtanman and thank you for your detailed reply!
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
One little infinitely important point of clarification, though:
In my emphatic YES - I'm referring to actual, literal forgiveness -- not conceptual forgiveness.
Literal - as in: what happens when actual (financial) debt is forgiven?
It no longer exists.
Yeah, I guess I could have specified this, but this was what I was meaning when I said "forgiveness"....I wasn't meaning forgiven with the mind, I was meaning actually truly forgiven. As in it no longer exists. Thanks for clarifying for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Every moment, now, is in actuality a fresh creation.
Yes, the longer I am on this journey the more this is "reality" to me. The only thing binding this all together in the form it is, is collective conciousness (I think )
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
A Course In Miracles is entirely about the one true miracle:
Forgiveness.
Really? I was given this book (and a few others) as a Christmas gift from a loving AYPer, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet....too many books on the go at one time as usual....Perhaps this is the push I needed to pick it up and start. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
How and/or why could forgiveness be such a big deal?
Because non-forgiveness creates the illusion of separation - a separate "me" who thinks it has separation from another separate "me" -- even if that separate me is "me", reflected in the thinking the me-thought calls memory, now -- and even if that me and/or the thoughts the me-thought thinks are evaluated via the memory this "me" thinks of as karma (where else could the concepts of "good" or "bad" karma come from, if not the thinking the thought-me thinks of as memory, now?)
So you are basically saying that karma is an effect of memory right? That holding on to the memory of our past actions is what creates our karmic reality correct? I started a topic on Memory a while ago, but never got any bites....perhaps I should try to amalgamate that topic with this one.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
It all begins to look like a house of mirrors quite quickly --- because it is a house of mirrors, just psychic-conceptual, rather than physical.
Yes, again this is becoming more and more of my reality day by day. Everything that everyone around me seems to think is so important, everything that humanity seems to focus on seems more and more like smoke and mirrors just keeping people distracted and asleep.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Forgiveness is simply another term for the state of clear-seeing - of unobstructed view -- the condition of the pure light of awareness shining, unobstructed, in order to be reflecting in, from and as the total, universal manifestation of this moment experiencing all of itself, now.
I think you could also state this by saying that when living in a state of forgiveness you never need to forgive anyone. They are already forgiven/there is nothing to forgive. Except for me personally the "concept" of forgiveness seems very applicable... meaning the only person I need to forgive is myself. Once I have done that there will be noone left to forgive.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
... as opposed to this moment creation thoughts of limitation via pre-distortion, by being prejudging (prejudicially) by creating the thought-subject (that is) thought-evaluating (what it thinks into existence as) thought-objects.
In reality, forgiveness is neither needed or real --- everything is - simply - as everything is.
Yes.... of course. How could it be any other way.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
However, forgiveness can indeed be a tool of near-infinite power, in realizing our self as One, Whole & Infinite.
How?
Just.
Let.
Go.
Of memory, of imagination; of evaluation, of concept.
That's all eh....sounds way to easy, hahaha. Kidding.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Yogash Chitta Vrtti Nirodhah (Yoga Sutra 1.2)
Yoga (Union) is the setting aside of mind modifications.
The great secret of karma is this:
You don't create karma.
Karma creates *you*.
Yes, I see this as Truth now. And we ALLOW karma to create "us" by being unable to forgive ourselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Having said all that, though --- some conditioning runs deep, it seems - and the body may react emotionally even when surface thought "knows better".
Time for investigation/inquiry when this happens!
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
The thinking-me wants to make it all complex and painful -- it's not.
Yes indeed....We always make life out to be more then what it truly Is.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Whether it's a momentary flutter ... or the heartbreak of a lifetime.
Just.
Let.
Go.
What if you're "sure" you can't?
Just let go until you can --- until one perfect moment, the true light of forgiveness --- the real and radiant actuality of this moment shines as the overflowing loving that we each and all infinitely, actually, eternally *are* - here and now.
Yes....this usually comes after a few days of deep sorrow and uncontrollable tears in my case. Then I hit that point of deep inner silence and am able to really let go.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
And be clear on-about-as THIS:
Just because this perfect moment appears only to disappear - it can and will reappear, the next moment unforgiveness is forgiven, now.
Wholeness is *real* - wholeness is who and what we each and all *are*.
Awareness is undivided - nothing would or could exist if Awareness is or could be divided.
Yes, we truly are One.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
To the thinking mind, that statement might sound ludicrous.
Not mine! Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Let this be a *major* clue.
You are *not* who you think you are --- you are the single, unified field of awareness in which *all* objects of consciousness are appearing-disappearing now.
What if THIS is what I think I am? Bugging you
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
The place where distinction never gazed ... because distinction arises as part of the shining-reflecting *of* the indistinction .... which always, ever can only be gazed *from*.
So true.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Forgiveness removes the apparent blocks to the awareness of the reality of the One Loving Now.
Non-forgiveness (<- the making of Un-forgiving, now) and karma are just concepts which appear to block the light of the Actual Loving Now.
Then let us forgive, forget, and let go so we can enjoy life as it Is.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
As enlightenment is realized and deepens - constrictions (attention focusing on oscillations of the body-mind, to a point of non-focus of resting in awareness) can and likely will happen ---- but they're of much, much briefer duration and smaller intensity --- because identification no longer rests with the "unforgiven" -- the mind-made-me.
There will always be room for growth no matter where we "think" we are.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
(Who could "not forgive", except a thought who feels it's a "me" that is unforgiven and/or unforgivable?)
Wow. I really like that. So profound. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Enlightenment is real.
Enlightenment is freedom beyond imagination.
Forgiveness can be one of the brightest lights in showing us we're already home.
Hope this helps.
You are a beacon of illumination my friend. Thank you.
With Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jun 24 2009 10:58:25 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 11:07:47 AM
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Namaste Katrine and thanks for chiming in!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Just feel like adding:
In order to deepen/broaden the letting go.....life has a way of putting one into situations where whatever is still is held onto will surface. That is why it is so important to engage in life - not withdraw from it. It is always like this.....the play of lila...is designed to wake one up. Not the opposite....despite all the seeming evidence to the contrary.
It was explained to me just yesterday that life will continue to throw situations at us which allow us the opportunity to learn a lesson we need to, until we learn it. And I feel that I am getting to a point in my journey now where I can see these lessons on the first or second time around. I feel much more aware these days of what I am 'supposed' to be learning from my life situations.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It all depends on how receptive one is.....that is why deep meditation is so crucial. It hones the instrument that enables perception....and it enables communion (and eventually conscious union) with that which discriminates.
Where would we be without Deep Meditation....thank God for silence...and Yogani
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
When one can discriminate like this...letting go becomes spontaneous.....it replaces the unconscious knee-jerk reactions. First by will (a little conscious effort spurned by Bhakti)...then naturally more and more of itself.
It truly is a natural progression if we allow it. Thank you for your words Katrine.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jun 24 2009 11:09:13 AM |
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Mark Lehman
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2010 : 01:43:07 AM
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Hello Friends,
Really amazing to know about forgiveness.What a great power.
Thanks
Mark. |
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Karma and Forgiveness
