cotton, earplugs - AYP Public Forum

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2005 : 10:04:39 AM

My question is regarding disturbing sounds especially. When we meditate, ideally we would want an extremely calm environment but that seems not to be possible always.

So are there any aids like cotton or ear plugs that you guys use to prevent you from hearing outside sounds? How about downloading some background music (like water falling) from internet and using it during meditation?

-Near

If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. - Emerson

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2005 : 10:27:08 AM

Hello Near,

of course, don't seek silence while you meditate, just meditate. That said though, it's OK to seek, outside meditation, to set up the conditions that give you quietness during meditation, if you find it helpful.

I have found foam ear-plugs better than cotton or wax. These are my favorites:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...955?v=glance

I've found them in packs of 20 in Brooke's Pharmacy, which are much better value than the packs of 6. I don't know if these details about brands help -- I don't know if you can get them --- I've asked you before whether you live in the India or the US --- but maybe you are keeping it a secret.

>> How about downloading some background music (like water falling)

Music per se always gets in the way of my meditation, and I personally prefer silence over anything, but falling water and white noise can be good. You can also buy devices which give you such sounds.

In fact, I personally find music to be so disturbing that I have used falling water sounds to obliterate it on those occasions when I can't get away from it (an example is a neighbor having a party and playing music). I generally don't mind ambient noises at all while I meditate, but music manages to steal my attention. In those cases, I have even used loud falling water sound to drown out the music, and then ear plugs to quieten the lot!!

-D

Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 24 2005 10:28:22 AM

Richard

United Kingdom
857 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2005 : 12:54:41 PM

Hi near
the only thing that really disturbs be is a ticking clock I cant abide them, If I have to work in vicinity of one I use foam earplugs.

Blessings

RICHARD

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Oct 24 2005 : 10:47:31 PM

Hey david, i do remember someone asked me about where I stay and i also remember answering them. There's nothing to keep it a secret dude. Afterall, I am not anybody famous like Yogani or you

so finally, did i answer your question? lol

If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. - Emerson

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2005 : 12:34:36 AM

Foam rubber earplugs cut the most sound, are the most comfortable, and the cheapest to wear. You can get them at any drugstore. My favorite brand is "quiet, please!" but I think it's 'cuz I like the name.

But I'd warn that trying to make conditions conducive for meditation is a never-ending task, and an ideal on-ramp for the mind to insinuate itself. I meditate on the subway a lot of the time. And my normal place to meditate is near a window where loud cars and car alarms and screaming cursing crazy people walk by. I'm looking to "burn in" my meditative experiences into my day to day life, and not have it be my special, holy time. Hope that makes sense. As always, that's just me.....

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 25 2005 12:35:41 AM

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2005 : 12:53:56 AM

Jim,

Thanks for the information. But I think AYP recommends finding a calmer environment for the meditation routine. Once we are done with our meditation then we can probably go and pariticipate in day2day activities.

Is there any specific reason why you choose to do meditation in such disturbing environment?

If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. - Emerson

Victor

USA
910 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2005 : 02:58:20 AM

I am quite fond of my homedics sound machine. It not only can give a soft non musical background sound (rain, waterfall, ocean, crickets etc) but also has a timer. I set it as low as I can unless there is background noise and then turn it up as much as needed. you can set it to 15 minutes or a half hour or an hour or just "on"). I just set the time and turn it on and do my practice, when the sound stops I know that the time is up. I can usually tell a moment before the sounds stops as well, its uncanny. It is very subtle and so not distracting and you don't need to worry about timing. Has a wire and also batteries so it can be taken for travel.

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2005 : 11:42:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke

Jim
Is there any specific reason why you choose to do meditation in such disturbing environment?

Every environment is potentially disturbing, if you go looking for the disturbing elements and choose to deem them disturbing. It's always a little too warm, a little too cool, a little too dry, a little too humid. A bird flies over head, a fly bashes into our knees. If only my wife didn't say that upsetting thing to me earlier today which keeps echoing in my mind. Damn, I left my cell phone on and it just rang. Or I keep imagining it's going to ring. Oops, thunder (did I close the car windows?). Gosh, it's so quiet and peaceful here...what was that? Oh, a coyote in the distance. I'm hungry. I'm tired. My back hurts.

If the mind is permitted to seek out distractions and disturbances, it will find itself a playground. If you try to get it just right, the princess will always notice a pea. Meditation is about cutting out the mind and going internal, and the mind will find many excuses not to do so. To placate the mind by giving it what it thinks it needs to give you a sensory experience of going deeper is to be trapped in a side trip.

We're trying to transcend the mind, not placate it. And it's important to note that only the mind finds lovely ponds or Costa Rica "conducive". The intelligence energy of which we're made (and of which the universe is made) doesn't make distinctions about conduciveness (or of anything else). "Conducive" is a judgment/distinction, and the only thing in the universe that makes judgements is the human mind. It's a mind trip. In fact, it's the exact mind trip that got us in this predicament to begin with (read advaita, vedanta, zen, or kashmiri shaivism...I recommend the writings of Sailor Bob, http://members.iinet.net.au/~adamson7 or the classic hsin hsin ming, http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html )

Yup, the mind will attach to squealing car alarms, but the mind has a lot to attach to, so we're aiming to relax attachment regardless of external or internal factors.

If you can give yourself an experience of serenity wearing a white robe on a beeyotiful beach somewhere at just the right time of day, that's just lovely. But it's likely just a mind trip, and, in any case, is just one day (unless you own a cabana in Malibu). Yoga's about the here and now, wherever that is. Repeat: wherever that is.

The mind, in any given moment, has lots it can attach to. The trick is to stop attaching, stop judging, stop distinguishing re: input, rather than arranging the universe (i.e. your environment) to minimize the input.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 25 2005 5:23:27 PM

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 01:14:22 AM

Hi Jim,

I got your point. I too dont believe much can be acheieved by going to a secluded place just for a day or two.

But isnt it better to create a calmer atmosphere in our daily meditation place? Are you meditating in such noisy environment because it is difficult to find a calmer place there or did you really chose such an environment.

The world has lot of disturbances/distractions. Our ultimate goal is to develop the ability to be undistirubed amidst all the disturbances. But atleast till we develop some control isnt it better to create a better atmosphere and stay away from the disturbances? whats the point in trying to practise brahmacharya by working at night clubs?

If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. - Emerson

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 09:35:31 AM

>> Foam rubber earplugs cut the most sound, are the most comfortable, and the cheapest to wear. You can get them at any drugstore. My favorite brand is "quiet, please!" but I think it's 'cuz I like the name.

It's better than just a good name -- in my experience, Flents 'Quiet Please' foam earplugs are the best. They are the ones I advertised in the link above. I've tried cotton, various kind of synthetic waxy things, a number of brands of foam in various shapes and sizes.

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 11:43:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
The world has lot of disturbances/distractions. Our ultimate goal is to develop the ability to be undistirubed amidst all the disturbances. But atleast till we develop some control isnt it better to create a better atmosphere and stay away from the disturbances? whats the point in trying to practise brahmacharya by working at night clubs?

It's all the mind. All of it. The degree of "control" you think you're developing is a mind trip, too. Drop it. Drop all of it. Drop attention to the big clumps and the little clumps. Drop dropping! Dive into mantra and let go. None of the other matters at all. It's a dead end. There's always going to be "stuff out there" playing on your internal movie screen. You're always in the midst of a bright flashy carnival, wherever you go. That's the mind. Let it do its thing, don't even try to silence it. The point is: you're not that. You're the screen the images play upon.

You are right at the point where the perceptions register. Your mind is later...analyzing and judging and categorizing those perceptions (the mind sees "chair", but the self registers a fresh and unique pattern). Selecting an environment delivering the "right" perceptions (you're always flooded and saturated with them wherever you are, so you're never truly "reducing" them) is all mind. Don't try to arrange your perceptual palette, just stay in the eternal now where the perception (of whatever is) comes in. Stay ahead of your mind's nattering tendency to categorize. Read the two links above for help on this.

David, I hadn't clicked your link. Ok, it's unanimous, then: Quiet, Please: The Official Earplug Of AYP!

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 26 2005 11:53:21 AM

Manipura

USA
870 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 1:19:13 PM

I personally like the orange tapered ones, as the taper fits better into the ear. I'm with Jim - trying to control our meditation environment is like trying to control the weather. And for a person who has control issues anyway, it's bonus for me to go with what IS, rather than trying to alter it to suit my fussy needs. The earplugs are to drown out the sound of my elderly cat snoring in my lap.

m

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 1:58:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by meg

I personally like the orange tapered ones, as the taper fits better into the ear.

The tapered orange ones never blocked the noise as well for me at all as the cylindrical ones.

Are you sure you rolled the cylindrical ones down to a small enough diameter first, and got them into your ear fast enough before they expanded? They should expand to fit the ear canal. There is a bit of a knack to using the cylindrical ones well.

But this could just be different ears or preferences.

Manipura

USA
870 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 2:22:35 PM

David - Yes, I got them into my ear lickety split, b4 they expanded. :) I consider myself an expert on earplugs, as I've been using them for some 20 yrs. when I sleep. Maybe for a 45 min. meditation sit the cylindrical ones are okay, but if you sleep all night in them, it hurts like hell. Also, I don't think the ones you use are as soft as the orange ones. I COULD BE WRONG. But I seriously doubt it.

:)

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 2:33:11 PM

>> Maybe for a 45 min. meditation sit the cylindrical ones are okay, but if you sleep all night in them, it hurts like hell.

Aha. Well, that's it then. Cylindrical ones not good for you for the night. They don't hurt me though, even through the night. Different ear canals.

>> Also, I don't think the ones you use are as soft as the orange ones. I COULD BE WRONG. But I seriously doubt it.

You are definitely right about that. The orange ones are softer. They are still Flents aren't they? So we are on the same brand?

Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 26 2005 2:34:06 PM

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 2:39:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by meg

I personally like the orange tapered ones, as the taper fits better into the ear. I'm with Jim - trying to control our meditation environment is like trying to control the weather. And for a person who has control issues anyway, it's bonus for me to go with what IS, rather than trying to alter it to suit my fussy needs. The earplugs are to drown out the sound of my elderly cat snoring in my lap.

strong agreement on the spiritual journey issue (I, too, have always been all about getting things "just right" in the samsara), strong disagreement on the earplugs. Orange ones can't touch Quiet Please. Orange earplugs suck. Quiet Please rules.

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 2:57:48 PM

Just to throw another monkey wrench into this thread, I wouldn't wear earplugs while meditating. I'm sorry that I'm way too early in this to explain well. But there are pratyahara reasons not to close that channel artficially, I'm sure of it though I don't know how to explain/express it. Ears have connection to heart. I don't know how it works, but I wouldn't fool with the channel. I don't think earplugs will, like, hurt you or anything, though.

Just my two cents. I'm not going to be able to clarify on this one 'cuz it's just stuff I've barely scratched myself.

And, anyway, per above, accepting at the direct level of perception "what is" (without letting the mind color it, attach to it, react to it) is good sadhana. And it'd feel right to practice this with all five senses balanced naturally. To me, at least. FWIW.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 26 2005 2:58:42 PM

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 3:29:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Just to throw another monkey wrench into this thread, I wouldn't wear earplugs while meditating. I'm sorry that I'm way too early in this to explain well. But there are pratyahara reasons not to close that channel artficially, I'm sure of it though I don't know how to explain/express it. Ears have connection to heart. I don't know how it works, but I wouldn't fool with the channel. I don't think earplugs will, like, hurt you or anything, though.

I would definitely agree with you if you stopped at saying that there are times when earplugs should not be used when meditating. I think there is a connection from ears to heart too.

I wouldn't rule them out so definitely though. But it all depends on exactly what is going on with the practicioner, and I'd expect the practicioner to figure it out when they get there. I would say try the earplugs and see, depending on a lot of factors , which include of course whether there is noise.

I think white noise though, has a lot to offer. I have found actually simply enjoying white noise to be a good practice!!

Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 26 2005 5:56:45 PM

Lili

Netherlands
372 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 5:23:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian

>> But there are pratyahara reasons not to close that channel artficially,

But we close our eyes too don't we

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 5:57:43 PM

Jajj Lili, you are making it look as if I said that!!!

It was J&K who said it...

-- David the fusser.

Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 26 2005 5:58:32 PM

2111 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 11:08:19 PM

David, you can produce white noise by setting your AM radio between stations (OR buy a $150 gizmo from sharper image!).

Lill, in fact, many traditions meditate with open eyes (including zazen). It's for the same reason that I meditate on subways. Trying to bake it in and not have it be your special sacred lovely holy away time.

USA
525 Posts

Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 11:41:57 PM

Jim,

Does AYP agree/recommend such a practice or is it just you? From your experience or view would such a practice be equal/less/more efficient than meditating in a calm environment?

If you want your neighbor to believe in God, let him see what God can make you like. - Emerson

Edited by - nearoanoke on Oct 27 2005 12:00:28 AM

Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2005 : 12:32:52 AM

Just throwing my 2 cents in. I personally don't think being too particular about achieving the ideal meditation environment will serve us very well.

Initially, with meditation, lot's of things caught my attention, sirens in the distance, noise outside etc. I found that if I didn't have an emotional reaction to these distractions, (irritation is what first comes to mind), or I just let go of my feelings about the distraction, they soon stopped getting my attention.

I think we still notice them on some level. I have caught myself tuning into some jack-hammering as it got louder and noticed it had been going on for several minutes but wasn't initially distracting. I think the trick for me has been letting the distraction go through me without latching on so I agree with Jim on this one.

I like to try to make my meditation environment as quiet as possible, if things come into that initial solitude, then I simply let go of any fear (and then sometimes anger) that they will distract me and go back to the mantra. I eventually caught on that it can't really disturb you unless you let it.

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2005 : 11:01:47 AM

You know, part of what is going on in the discussion here is hitting a paradox of spiritual practice. I think a good name for it might be 'the paradox of intentionality'.

What it is about is when our spiritual intentions thwart our spiritual purposes. Our purpose (to facilitate a deep meditation) can be partially thwarted by an intention to do so. This whole thing is discussed in a the 'practice don't practice paradox' topic.

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=314

My own resolution is to understand the paradox of intentionality, and to understand that the problem is in the attitude with which the intention is held, and is not inherent in intention itself: the attitude may contain problems of tension, insistence, and resistence -- which are contravened by surrender and acceptance.

In short, you can intend with surrender and acceptance, and without tension, insistence and resistence.

It's actually fully consistent (though not necessarily easy) to intend and work to make your meditation place and time calm and peaceful, and yet, while meditating, to be fully accepting of what interrupts it. This is what I do.

However, it's important to know that the 'intending and working' should be dropped as soon as the meditation starts.

And yet there can also be a place for, at times, deliberately reversing tendencies to be insistent on quiet places to meditate, and even seeking a place of distraction sometimes. This would probably not be a good 'front-line' teaching, but has its place in certain circumstances, according to the make-up and experience of the meditator. I look on this as using clever 'reverse psychology' with oneself. What better a way to tackle an automatic and difficult-to-remove insistence on good conditions to meditate than actually willfully seeking poor conditions?

Removing the emotional insistence on the fruit of meditation (and the right conditions for it) actually enhances the meditation greatly. So in the proper amounts, and done the right way, a person deliberately seeking negative (outward) conditions for meditation may actually be training themselves to have extra-positive inward conditions because he/she is skillfully reversing the negative insistence process. It can be a skillful use of the insights of the paradox of intentionality.

Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 27 2005 11:41:13 AM