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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 05:58:44 AM
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| I have been drawn to Babaji through friends who are involved with Babaji's Kriya Yoga, SRF and reading 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. One thing I do struggle with it the belief of some that he still lives on this earth, as an immortal being. The idea is very appealing to me, but the sceptic inside has certain doubts. If he still lives in a physical body, surely the best thing he could do would be to show himself as widely as possible, as this would convince thousands to follow a spiritual path..? Any thoughts? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 07:51:30 AM
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No that wouldn't be good. Remember Jesus would seldom perform miracles just to impress people?
The possibility of immortality attracts all the wrong kind of people. People who are attracted to the kriyas that sometimes manifest along the path to enlightenment are after the wrong thing, and will not get very far on the path.
It is those who are following their highest ideal, but without any desire for personal gain who will go the farthest. It is those who can attain enlightenment by the guidance of their inner guru alone.
You will find people who follow a great man will often reach a plateau and stay stuck there, worshiping him and feeling they can never go as far as him. |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 08:02:35 AM
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| Yes, but what I'm wondering is if there is any truth to the belief that Babaji is alive and living on this planet... |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 08:17:56 AM
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Well, how would you know if you don't meet the guy? No matter what you read or are told, its just a matter of belief or faith.
If you really think about it, there should be thousands of people who are physically immortal or in some kind of 'energy' body on earth, after all many traditions (over thousands of years) have the concept and practices to actually create such a thing (some have that as their sole goal). The esoteric Taoist and even some Yogic sects come to mind.
Me thinks the real goal is enlightenment. Everything else is just more dancing.
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 09:16:21 AM
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| That's the whole point - I haven't met the guy, and in the absence of having met the guy confess to remaining sceptical. Saying 'enlightenment is the goal and everything else is just dancing' is an excuse for not thinking. I'll have to remember to say 'enlightenment is the goal and everything else is just dancing' next time I get pulled over by the cops for speeding. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 10:27:06 AM
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Hi Jonjon and all,
Maybe enlightenment is just dancing, and everything else is always a goal. 
What does it matter if Babaji is still alive or not? The Christians believe that Jesus still exists... and many pray to him every day. Personally I believe he does, so why not Babaji? But if it is too far out an idea, then just put it on hold. It is not possible to prove either way.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Mar 16 2009 10:49:21 AM |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 10:41:39 AM
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| It matters rather a lot. If one of the core beliefs of a very important spiritual school is bunkum, then it casts doubt on everything else they say. Truth and the validity of beliefs should be of the utmost importance to seekers... otherwise you are just wasting your time. You might as well believe in the Smurfs - you can always argue that it 'doesn't really matter if they exist or not'. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 10:55:24 AM
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Ok JonJon, I get your point. Then, it is your call. Unless someone comes into this thread ans says it has seen Babaji you will still be where you started. So, finally it is your choice to believe or not.
Regardeless, you are right - a belief in something is what moves us forward. Find a belief that resonates with you and a goal worthwhile striving for.
quote:
If one of the core beliefs of a very important spiritual school is bunkum, then it casts doubt on everything else they say.
On the other hand, couldn't it be possible to find very useful things in a school of thought even if we don't believe in everything they say? Personally that is my approach - I like to listen to whatever caughts my attention but I only get from them the things that resonate with me in one way or another. My heart can tell these things. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 10:55:41 AM
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Hi Jonjom,
What I am saying is, you cannot know whether it is true or not. There simply is no way of knowing... until of course you meet him, and then who can deny his reality for you?
That's the whole trip with spirituality... you can't know much about it, until you experience it directly for yourself. And then you know what is true and what is not... "and the truth shall set you free" as Jesus said.
But if it all seems too wacky... you can always practice AYP, and you don't need to believe a thing. And the best of SRF is here... and much more. 
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 10:58:09 AM
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Hi Yogaislife,
We cross posted.
Christi
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 11:05:22 AM
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Hi JonJon...
quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
It matters rather a lot. You might as well believe in the Smurfs
I think what Christi was trying to say was that you should try to suspend "beliefs" for a while. Beliefs are all made to be either verified or debunked. Holding onto the belief does not make reality sway to one side or the other. So wondering about something you can not ever know, is silly. (IMO)
The core "belief" of the SRF and Kriya Yoga is not that Babaji is an immortal, but that we are all capable of union with God. As far as I am concerned Babaji is a minor character in the grand scheme of it all. No disrespect to Babaji, and I don't really mean that he is "minor" in any way, just that focussing on him or his accomplishments is not necessary for liberation. Figuring out whether or not he was/is immortal is just a mere distraction and that is why I say he is a "minor character" in the grand scheme of it all. We are ALL minor (and major) characters in this play of life, no one any more important than any other.
But just to pleasure your mind a little, think about this....
What are we? I mean physically? Simplified we are basically a bunch of atoms connected via energy. When those atoms break apart in death what happens to the energy? Well, with someone who is an accomplished (and I mean accomplished like Babaji) Yogi, they are well aware of the fact that "they" are not their body, and are used to transcending the physical form. So when the body DOES pass, it is no big deal and the "awareness" that is left has more options on what to do next then someone who is totally unaware of what it is like to have the awareness leave the body. So personally I believe, (yes that terrible evil word once again) that Babaji, being an "accomplished Yogi" decided in death (whether conscious or not) to let his awareness linger for the sake of all beings. This does not mean (IMO) that he is walking around with a body 24/7, but I do believe (again I hate this word) that he is capable of materializing in the form of a human when he chooses. He is immortal in the same way we ALL are immortal. Death is not an "ending" but a transition.
Love,
Carson |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 11:40:17 AM
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| Thanks for the comments guys. Not trying to antagonise the forum, but I don't like talking in vague generalities. I tend to think Carson's theory is probably a likely scenario - what is so hard about acknowledging that Babaji is no longer with us in a physical form, but does appear to some seekers from time to time? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 11:52:33 AM
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Hi JonJon...
quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
what is so hard about acknowledging that Babaji is no longer with us in a physical form, but does appear to some seekers from time to time?
Nothing. But what difference does it REALLY make one way or the other? Does it really change anything? Maybe your beliefs, but you are not your beliefs, so keep looking, to see a little deeper.
Love,
Carson
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 12:08:12 PM
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| It matters, because there is probably a badly sunburnt and frostbitten guy who as we speak is crawling up a slope somewhere in the Himalayas, looking for someone who isn't there... |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 12:20:25 PM
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His choice. Focus on you not him. You can't learn anything for anyone else, so even if you DID know for sure one way or the other, you think Mr. Mountainclimber would care what you say? No. He needs to know for himself the Truth. Nothing you say can create an "understanding" in another. We are all on our own journey's. Let those who climb, climb, and those who sit, sit. All is as it should be and everyone is on the path they need to be on for liberation. Can't make decisions for someone else.
Love,
Carson |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 12:26:17 PM
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Hi Jonjon,
Here is something that Yogani wrote once about the power of belief in yoga ...
Yogani on belief
quote:
" Yogani wrote:
This line of relationship within ourselves is important for everyone, as it is an essential constituent of bhakti. As we all know, bhakti is the primary engine of yoga. It is the part of us that believes, and belief is essential for us to take that next step on our path, however small or large it may be.
At the same time, as we engage in the practices of deep meditation, spinal breathing, samyama, etc., this line of internal relationship (bhakti) arises naturally, and we will no longer doubt our potential, regardless of the externals. Anything becomes possible, and the externals become all but irrelevant in the face of the steadily increasing divine outpouring. Our good intentions will manifest one way or another. How is not for us to judge...
To favor the external over the internal is a kind of mytholization that will hold us back. Isn't it obvious? Thank goodness practices will take care of it in time, so we don't have to be endlessly wrestling with our beliefs and thought patterns. Of course, we will anyway, for a while anyway. Eventually it all goes to stillness, and then we know...
Believe!
Miracles do happen (constantly) for those who believe. With respect to what we can accomplish, the word "cannot" is completely irrelevant.
The only problem with mythologizing in my opinion is that it is most often pointed in the wrong direction, externally toward others, which saps our ability to fully express our innate potential. We should be pointing it inward, and using it as inspiration for our practice.
This is the essential point in the great myths -- not to mythologize the hero as an external phenomenon, but to inspire the hero within us all. So often this point is missed. It is also a failing in the guru system. No one is to blame. It is our inner obstructions. Now we are catching on as inner silence and the light of knowledge are rising.
We ordinary folks are full with extraordinary possibilities. Let's never forget that. "
Skepticism can be a useful tool at times, but belief is probably a more useful tool... if you can use it.
Personally I have found that the power of belief is something that has developed as my yoga practice has developed. As I have seen more and more things that I previously thought were impossible, my remaining doubts have started to fade. Now I believe that anything is possible... and I have never seen any evidence to prove that it is not.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Mar 16 2009 12:28:11 PM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 1:19:59 PM
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| Beautiful post Christi, it is always motivating to read stuff like this! Beautiful quote from Yogani too. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2009 : 6:32:28 PM
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Yes, the number of people believing that Babaji is physically alive is great. If you follow the myths, you will find lots of sects who claim to be connected to Babaji somehow. And lots of gurus claim to be Babaji or closely associated with him.
Does this mean he must be real, or that a lot of people believe the same thing?
I think it is like obiwan kenobe in Star Wars: "If you kill me, i will become more powerful than you can imagine!"; People who have attained enlightenment have more choices upon death. |
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Babaji
