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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 10:23:57 AM
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Hi folks, This is directed at the Theravada practitioners. I was re-reading the Pali Canon, and found something very interesting. In the Samannaphala Sutta and others the Buddha mentions a bhikku would apply him/herself to a "mind-made" body, and would draw out the mind-made body like a snake coming out of its skin, or a reed from its sheath. "A monk with mind concentrated... directs his mind to the production of a mind-made body. He draws that body out of this body, having form, mind-made, complete with all its limbs and faculties. This is a fruit of the homeless life more excellent and perfect than the former one." What do you all make of that?
This description of the mind-made body precedes his description of the siddhis. When I read this, I immediate think of the Tibetan Buddhist practice in the generation stage of yoga where one visualizes one's self as a deity, and in the completion stage where an "illusory body" is generated from the mind of "Clear Light." This "illusory body" is the one that has many siddhis.
It occurs to me that the Tibetan Buddhist practices may actually have a direct lineage to the Buddha's time. The Theravada meditation teachings leave this part out all together. The translator's note on this practice in the Pali Canon says that the mind-made body is exactly like the physical body, what is mistaken for a soul. When I read this passage, I don't interpret the Buddha describing a mistake. I read him describing an accomplishment of a good meditator. However, he does not describe how one produces a mind-made body.
This lack of explanation indicates to me that he must have explained it to someone. In this Sutta, the Buddha speaks to a non-practitioner. Of all the traditions of yoga, tantra, buddhism and hinduism the Tibetans are the only one's who have an in tact tradition of producing a mind-made body. Would that be accurate?
Thoughts?
Love,
TMS |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Feb 12 2009 10:29:20 AM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 10:53:59 AM
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quote:
This lack of explanation indicates to me that he must have explained it to someone. In this Sutta, the Buddha speaks to a non-practitioner. Of all the traditions of yoga, tantra, buddhism and hinduism the Tibetans are the only one's who have an in tact tradition of producing a mind-made body. Would that be accurate?
The practice of creating a mind made body is very prevalent in western mystery tradition schools such as the Golden Dawn where it is called the creation of the body of light. The body of light is then used to perform magical rituals and travel within different realities.
I think this definitely stems from Tibetan systems (maybe bon) as this is where most of the western mystery tradition magical practices have been adapted from. If it comes from the bon tradition the lack of explanation by Buddhists is explained as a lot of bon magical practices are pre Buddhist and belongs to a much older system.
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Edited by - Richard on Feb 12 2009 10:58:12 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 12:04:25 PM
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hi mystic and Richard,
qhen i was involved in the world of spiritualism i used to have a friend and a teacher who was involved with the same technique and i read about it in lots of arabic spiritual but mostly they were works on magic.(both the white and dark arts)
plus i've read about the same thing in tantric literature somewhere about the worship of the deity and how an exact image of the deity is created in the astral body and comes to life and then later on we deal with it and it gets us closer to the true deity.
by the way tantric aghoris do this practice and know it's mechanics very well, and we all kind of do it without our knoweing to some extent and this where the visions of saints and divas do come from sometimes...
light and love,
Ananda |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 12:14:14 PM
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by the way tantric aghoris do this practice and know it's mechanics very well, and we all kind of do it without our knoweing to some extent and this where the visions of saints and divas do come from sometimes...
Yes its simply a method of travelling on the so called astral planes some schools use the major arcana of Taro cards as portals to travel through in the body of light. Each card acting as a different area or level of the astral.
I feel I must add that I experimented with these things for many years a long time ago and yes it does work and the experiences and visions gained from it are very vivid and very fascinating but there lies the problem. It can lead you on a path of total fascination with such things with detriment to spiritual advancement. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 3:37:47 PM
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| Anyone who is serious about this practice should only do so with bodhicitta, love and kindness for all beings. The generation of such a magical body should be done with the sincere wish that all beings awaken to the supreme bliss of bodhi. Those who generate such a body for other magical purposes create great negative karma. This is a high level mystical practice and should not be done without the guidance of a kind and altruistic guru. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 6:00:02 PM
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The generation of such a magical body should be done with the sincere wish that all beings awaken to the supreme bliss of bodhi. Those who generate such a body for other magical purposes create great negative karma.
Exactly I agree but the trouble is once an individual is free to roam the astral realms the temptation to explore and try things out is almost Irresistible.
So yes as you say its probably best only attempted with a good teacher.
But hey why bother with all that complicated and probably dangerous stuff when we have an easy safe self regulating system like AYP 
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 6:30:07 PM
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Hi TMS,
I feel the Pali canon is a LOT more mahayana/vajrayana than theravada.
One misconception is the bodhisatva concept. One can be a full Buddha and a bodhisatva. Bodhisatva just means you work for sentient beings. Gautama was clearly a bodhisatva buddha, not a arhat. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 7:06:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard
quote:
The generation of such a magical body should be done with the sincere wish that all beings awaken to the supreme bliss of bodhi. Those who generate such a body for other magical purposes create great negative karma.
Exactly I agree but the trouble is once an individual is free to roam the astral realms the temptation to explore and try things out is almost Irresistible.
So yes as you say its probably best only attempted with a good teacher.
But hey why bother with all that complicated and probably dangerous stuff when we have an easy safe self regulating system like AYP
Because this topic is other systems. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 7:08:32 PM
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Originally posted by alwayson
Hi TMS,
I feel the Pali canon is a LOT more mahayana/vajrayana than theravada.
One misconception is the bodhisatva concept. One can be a full Buddha and a bodhisatva. Bodhisatva just means you work for sentient beings. Gautama was clearly a bodhisatva buddha, not a arhat.
Do you know of any reference in the Pali Canon to buddha-nature? I thought I remembered reading some quote where the Buddha said something to the effect, "I resolved my suffering, so can you." I can't remember where I read it. I realize it can be inferred from the same sutta I cited above, where from extinction of craving and aversion the supernormal faculties arise.
I agree with you about Mahayana character of the Pali Canon. The Buddha mentions many times loving-kindness for the whole world and in every direction (the whole universe). This is bodhicitta. |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Feb 12 2009 8:51:50 PM |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 8:15:59 PM
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You do know that Buddha nature simply means the potential to become a Buddha right?
It does not mean anything more than that...
Regarding your question, the whole Pali canon and Buddhism is about delivering beings from suffering, so I don't understand your question... |
Edited by - alwayson on Feb 12 2009 8:41:52 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 8:55:53 PM
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| You're like a lawyer. I'll try to be clear. Do you (the reader) know (with your memories) if (conditioned upon) the Pali Canon (the body of references described) contains (is inclusive of) a reference to (the subject we are discussing) buddha-nature (the potential to be a buddha) mentioned specifically by the Buddha (tathagata)? |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Feb 12 2009 10:24:06 PM |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2009 : 11:31:50 PM
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yes it does, as far as I know, maybe not in Mahayana terms. Beings must become Buddhas or arhats to be freed from suffering...thus my previous answer...
I am not really knowledgeable about pali canon otherwise. |
Edited by - alwayson on Feb 13 2009 01:01:38 AM |
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Mind-made body
