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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 2:13:13 PM
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Good Monday morning to you Katrine....(actually probably monday evening for you now I guess, sorry )
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
When the hands are used for healing......spontaneous conversations with people in different kinds of need (anyone, anywhere, anytime).....in touching animals or silent contact with birds......consultations with people at the kitchen table......AYP meditation group on Wednesdays.......or if I sing or play for someone as a "medicine".......all these.......result in expansion.....and increased love and clarity.
Yes, I see this happening all around. I see it as an aspect of the "witness" state. Just letting things happen as they do, but they always seem to happen in profound and life changing ways, for both me and others around me. It is really a beautiful thing and I feel the love and grace of God non-stop now through this blessing. Jai Ram! And I wish I could get a dose of some Katrine "medicine"! Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
This is what is happening to all of us. Just give your body the rest it needs. Be kind to it.....it is this vessel that allows for the outpouring. What you do to it, yo do to all .
Yes, you are quite right, and thank you for the reminder...I often forgo caring for the body because of my "need" to not be attached to my "shell", but at the same time..."No shell....No journey" right? At least no journey like what we are on in this skin anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I know I hear "less is more" all the time, but really, THAT little?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes. THAT little 
Man I hate that answer , haha. Can I have the other one please?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I have had periods where even that was too much......and then I sing instead  Now I sing devotional songs.....or love songs.....and it has a cleansing and....balancing effect. And is still a sort of practise (he, he).
Yes I know well the benefits of singing...have posted about this before actually.....
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4597
Nothing quite like belting out some harmony vocals to a melodic song!
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
So I wondered if maybe all the karma yoga I do has something to do with me not being able to do as many practices as I would like?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Would it matter if you knew? Karma yoga is also practise....
Good point, and point taken. My reason for asking was really just curiousity though.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
No. But you have AYP now. Look at it this way, Carson: When there is better balance between inner silence and ecstatic conductivity in you.....hurray.....what an outpouring it will be!! It is already happening....how else do you think all this could come about And as you keep practising and more and more is released.......the restlessness is transforming before your very eyes. Just give it time to unfold....as it already is.... yes?
Yes and thank God (and Yogani of course too) for AYP. What a mess I'd be without it! And yes, it will be nice to find (and keep) that balance between the silence and the energy. I will give it time....but it's wierd, sometimes I feel like I have more silence then energy, and others more energy then silence. Is the balance really that hard to maintain, or am I just not very good at recognizing where I am when I am there?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
You see....*laughing*......inner silence is coming to get you, Carson.....it is too late to run......
I'd never run from the silence! It's the only thing holding me together at this point!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 19 2009 2:26:17 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 5:59:24 PM
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Hi Carson
Yes - evening here now....soon 11:30 pm Almost 1 meter snow, and a few below zero....
quote:
Yes, I see this happening all around. I see it as an aspect of the "witness" state. Just letting things happen as they do, but they always seem to happen in profound and life changing ways, for both me and others around me. It is really a beautiful thing and I feel the love and grace of God non-stop now through this blessing. Jai Ram! And I wish I could get a dose of some Katrine "medicine"! Haha.
That is beautiful, Carson. Jai Ram!
There is already singing together, you know (Never mind Katrine.....just continue to transmit the "medicine"......it backfires )
quote:
I often forgo caring for the body because of my "need" to not be attached to my "shell", but at the same time..."No shell....No journey" right? At least no journey like what we are on in this skin anyways.
Somtimes...I look at the feet.....thanking them for carrying, carrying, carrying.....day out, year in....
The consciousness that you are....is permeating every single cell.....it is so easy to forget that.....in the "I am not the body"....but...in truth...I am the body too, how can I not be? Everything is THAT. So everything is holy. It is a lot easier to care like that....when the body is not a posession....not something that belong to you......not something that defines you.....to treat it with love and care. Because everything is holy....and you dwell inside this body....
quote:
Nothing quite like belting out some harmony vocals to a melodic song!
Singing is wonderful......and harmony vocals......Amen to that
quote:
but it's wierd, sometimes I feel like I have more silence then energy, and others more energy then silence.
Yes. This is natural. Have you recognized the difference between the two....when it comes to overloads?
quote:
Is the balance really that hard to maintain, or am I just not very good at recognizing where I am when I am there?
Somewhere in the forum.....someone wrote a list of the difference between silence and ecstatic conductivity overloads....it is an old thread.....and I can't find it right now.....
You know...it takes time to understand and come to terms with the way your nervous system behaves along the journey home. After some time....even the subtle symptoms will be recognized.....and you can self-pace earlier.
You're fine, Carson. Just....be prudent when it comes to experimenting on the "wrong" side of the energy scale. Inner silence is the most important of all......it will surface and become....prominent..... the more we surrender ourselves to it. Part of this surrendering is allowing things to settle when there are overload symptoms. To not have it "our" way.....to accept and stay devoted no matter how little we practise at the time.
quote:
I'd never run from the silence! It's the only thing holding me together at this point!
That's wonderful, Carson. Your Bhakti is phenomenal. I learn a lot from your posts....you are so open....it is a joy to see all the ways life expresses itself. Thank you for all you give of yourself
Katrine runs from the silence still......whenever there is a clash within....whenever the voice of Katrine speaks up.....as a resistance to what is......this is how there is running here. This "I" is the running. It is seen.....and the seeing eats it, and at the same time allows for as much running as there is want. So....again and again...the wanting is turned towards itself.....
And then there are long periods of spontaneous inner stillness......where noone is....and all is presence......and beyond this is that which sees even this presence......it is both the presence perceiving itself....but also that which perceives this perceiving.....and nothing can be.....discerned....detected...nothing can be said about it....but it is definitely here. And since it is before the presence.....it must be THAT. But since everything is one.....all is THAT. Even the nail on the big toe.....
And when these long silences happen (it is every day....and it doesn't matter what I am "doing")......there is sometimes aching in middle head....aching in forehead......but it is witnessed and matters not.....and yet, a lot of walking and singing and being active is needed to balance it. And somtimes there is lazyness, and the balance is off. So it is a fine edge.....but it has been like this for a long time now.....and the silence calls and calls always.
Amaram ham
Maduram ham
Am sleeping now.
Good night, and don't let the bed bugs bite (Sorry...*laughing*....my daughter just came by.....and I get mommy like.....*laughing*....)
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 11:31:11 AM
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Hello Katrine!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes - evening here now....soon 11:30 pm Almost 1 meter snow, and a few below zero....
Yes I remember Norway (and Sweden) well from when I used to snowboard....The snow in Rikksgransen was always the fluffiest, most beautiful powder I'd ever ridden.....Lucky you
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
There is already singing together, you know (Never mind Katrine.....just continue to transmit the "medicine"......it backfires )
As I was on my way to work soon after reading this last night, I very suddenly recalled the opening line above...It put a huge smile on my face and in my heart, and made me turn off the music in the car and just soak up the "silent music" that always permeates your postings. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Somtimes...I look at the feet.....thanking them for carrying, carrying, carrying.....day out, year in....
The consciousness that you are....is permeating every single cell.....it is so easy to forget that.....in the "I am not the body"....but...in truth...I am the body too, how can I not be? Everything is THAT. So everything is holy. It is a lot easier to care like that....when the body is not a posession....not something that belong to you......not something that defines you.....to treat it with love and care. Because everything is holy....and you dwell inside this body....
Yes...indeed. I thank you for the reminder that I am one of the luckiest souls around as I have this body. We are ALL lucky to have the opportunity we have in this human form....the opportunity to work on our karma.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes. This is natural. Have you recognized the difference between the two....when it comes to overloads? Somewhere in the forum.....someone wrote a list of the difference between silence and ecstatic conductivity overloads....it is an old thread.....and I can't find it right now.....
You know...it takes time to understand and come to terms with the way your nervous system behaves along the journey home. After some time....even the subtle symptoms will be recognized.....and you can self-pace earlier.
Yes, I actually ran across the post with the list not 3 or 4 days ago. Now it is just a matter of me perfecting the awareness of my body. This is hard for me as I have a lot of stupid medical issues going on these days...mostly complications from self-medicating for all these years, but never having the original symptoms looked at or followed up on. Now I have to try and figure out what was wrong with me in the first place...and a lot of these "issues" can mimic overload symptoms. Someday I hope I can get to a point where I am on a "level playing field" because that would make it a lot easier to know what is causing what. It's only a matter of time now I hope.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
You're fine, Carson. Just....be prudent when it comes to experimenting on the "wrong" side of the energy scale.
Yes I have been most prudent (for the most part) as of late in keeping all energy practices to a strict minimum. I have too much energy as it is, so it is easier for me to notice overload symptoms on the energy side since I have more experience with excessive energy. The overloads of silence though I am still struggling with. I didn't really understand until recently that it was even possible to have overload symptoms from too much silence, but I am starting to understand the difference between the two and am trying to keep an eye out for both kinds of overload.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Inner silence is the most important of all......it will surface and become....prominent..... the more we surrender ourselves to it. Part of this surrendering is allowing things to settle when there are overload symptoms. To not have it "our" way.....to accept and stay devoted no matter how little we practise at the time.
Yes I am a little stubborn this way, and can see that I "fight" the silence sometimes when "I" want to continue but know that the silence is telling me to cool it for a while. More ego traps, and I am starting to recognize things for what they are I think.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
That's wonderful, Carson. Your Bhakti is phenomenal. I learn a lot from your posts....you are so open....it is a joy to see all the ways life expresses itself. Thank you for all you give of yourself
Thank you Katrine....I have learned that honesty really is the best policy for if I am dishonest I can't receive any love that is shown to me because I always feel like I was trying to earn it, or manipulate others into showing it, so now I just try to tell it how it is for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Katrine runs from the silence still......whenever there is a clash within....whenever the voice of Katrine speaks up.....as a resistance to what is......this is how there is running here.
Who is there to run? And where can you run to? Surrender is really the only viable option! I know you know and embody this, just thought I'd say it anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
This "I" is the running. It is seen.....and the seeing eats it, and at the same time allows for as much running as there is want. So....again and again...the wanting is turned towards itself.....
It's the only way and it will continue to change and reshape itself as you do...you are, as you say, fine.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And then there are long periods of spontaneous inner stillness......where noone is....and all is presence......and beyond this is that which sees even this presence......it is both the presence perceiving itself....but also that which perceives this perceiving.....and nothing can be.....discerned....detected...nothing can be said about it....but it is definitely here. And since it is before the presence.....it must be THAT. But since everything is one.....all is THAT. Even the nail on the big toe.....
This sounds to me like something I would say while high on a bunch of mushrooms . Ha haha ha ha. And I would like to say that I can understand this, and maybe I can with my mind, but what good does that do me? I hope one day I make it to the point that you are describing, but right now this seems far far away. Much further down the road I'm sure. But I CAN say that I have been there, just not sober .
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And when these long silences happen (it is every day....and it doesn't matter what I am "doing")......there is sometimes aching in middle head....aching in forehead......but it is witnessed and matters not.....and yet, a lot of walking and singing and being active is needed to balance it. And somtimes there is lazyness, and the balance is off. So it is a fine edge.....but it has been like this for a long time now.....and the silence calls and calls always.
Yes, this I can relate to...the aching forehead and inner head, and the need for activity to balance this out... This is why I have to work so much and stay so busy....If not the laziness takes over and I am really worse for wear. A fine edge indeed, and the silence is always calling....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Good night, and don't let the bed bugs bite (Sorry...*laughing*....my daughter just came by.....and I get mommy like.....*laughing*....)
Haha, very appropriate as I read this right before leaving for the Drop In Centre where there is a bit of a bed bug and scabies epidemic raging....luckily I don't have to sleep there, only work.
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 20 2009 11:44:04 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 2:51:20 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
As I was on my way to work soon after reading this last night, I very suddenly recalled the opening line above...It put a huge smile on my face and in my heart, and made me turn off the music in the car and just soak up the "silent music" that always permeates your postings. Thank you.
.....there was so much joy hearing this....to choose silence over everything else......that you were sitting there in the sacredness that you are.....smiling face and heart.....thanks for sharing, Carson, I joycried...you know, like the heart bursts tears out of the eyes.......from the smile of it
quote:
Who is there to run? And where can you run to? Surrender is really the only viable option! I know you know and embody this, just thought I'd say it anyways.
Great that you tell me. See...the thing is....there is running, the pattern that constituted the name Katrine.....this conditioning is the running...yet the running does not belong to anyone. Like you say...noone is running. So I call it the voice of Katrine....but this is not right either. Why give it this power? Why burden the name? The labeling of it is not necessary...it is just to be seen and done with this way. That's all. So thanks for reminding me, Carson. And likewise...noone embodies it either. There is just embodiment.....but not belonging to anyone. Certainly not the body......since the body is in it as well as it.
quote:
This sounds to me like something I would say while high on a bunch of mushrooms. Ha haha ha ha. And I would like to say that I can understand this, and maybe I can with my mind, but what good does that do me? I hope one day I make it to the point that you are describing, but right now this seems far far away. Much further down the road I'm sure. But I CAN say that I have been there, just not sober.
It is great that you see that understanding with mind does you no good. Not when it comes to this. And you know what.....the discription does me no good either. Only the direct freshness of it is it. This is something I can forget when impulsive in writing....that it need not necessarily be said.....so thanks for that reminder too.
Just remember that it is also mind that creates distance between yourself and the "point" ...NOW....that I am describing. It is not further down the road. And you don't make it "there". And how can the mind know how long the cloud of it will persist before the sun? It can't know. A sun beam may pierce it at any moment, we don't know these things. So better not judge it as far away or close. But instead let heart simmer in the trust that it is in fact here, though it is not perceived as of this moment. This opens up for anything to happen, doesn't it.....
Have a sunny afternoon, Carson
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 5:25:36 PM
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Hi Katrine! (again )
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
.....there was so much joy hearing this....to choose silence over everything else......that you were sitting there in the sacredness that you are.....smiling face and heart.....thanks for sharing, Carson, I joycried...you know, like the heart bursts tears out of the eyes.......from the smile of it
This is wonderful and I am so happy that you felt this way after reading. Truly a blessing. And I realized yesterday as this was happening, that I much prefer driving around in silence now as opposed to driving around listening to music. The music keeps me from being aware of myself...keeps me thinking in the past and the future not the present....and I much prefer trying to stay fully aware now...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Great that you tell me. See...the thing is....there is running, the pattern that constituted the name Katrine.....this conditioning is the running...yet the running does not belong to anyone. Like you say...noone is running. So I call it the voice of Katrine....but this is not right either. Why give it this power? Why burden the name? The labeling of it is not necessary...it is just to be seen and done with this way. That's all. So thanks for reminding me, Carson.
The way I understand it is; the running is a reaction to fear....(obviously )....but what is there to be afraid of? Running doesn't solve anything it only prolongs aspects of the journey that might not need to be prolonged. Surrender is the answer to everything...after all there is no "doer" as you say...so running must always then be an ego based thing. When I feel like running (or using) now, I try to ask myself "what am I really afraid of, why am I feeling the need to run?" and this usually puts me in a place to realize what I am afraid of and allows me the ability to move more towards the witness state in which I can just surrender to what is. No more running K? 
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And likewise...noone embodies it either. There is just embodiment.....but not belonging to anyone. Certainly not the body......since the body is in it as well as it.
Touche!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is great that you see that understanding with mind does you no good. Not when it comes to this. And you know what.....the discription does me no good either. Only the direct freshness of it is it. This is something I can forget when impulsive in writing....that it need not necessarily be said.....so thanks for that reminder too.
Yes I truly do try not to understand things with the mind anymore...If you remember the kinds of postings I was making when I first came to AYP I'm sure you can see the "mindyness" of them all...I hope that I don't come across so needy for answers anymore as I truly don't need them. All they do is create more biases that need to be lost, so....good bye need for answers! (and yes, there is no point in trying to describe what "is" as these are more of the same thoughts to be discarded in the future. No need to pile more thoughts ontop of the ones we are already trying to get rid of from before!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Just remember that it is also mind that creates distance between yourself and the "point" ...NOW....that I am describing. It is not further down the road. And you don't make it "there". And how can the mind know how long the cloud of it will persist before the sun? It can't know. A sun beam may pierce it at any moment, we don't know these things. So better not judge it as far away or close. But instead let heart simmer in the trust that it is in fact here, though it is not perceived as of this moment. This opens up for anything to happen, doesn't it.....
A great reminder Katrine, thank you. Stop looking for something that IS THIS! As I have been saying for a while now....seek nothing but to cease all seeking!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Have a sunny afternoon, Carson
Thank you, I have! The weather in Calgary has been amazing the past week or so. Hitting record high temps everyday! Today I am wearing only a T-shirt (and pants too of course) and it's the middle of January! Unheard of in my part of the world! Almost the entire rest of Canada is getting record lows, -40 celcius and lower in many places, and yet here in Cowtown we are sitting at +17 today! And it is plenty sunny! Time for the shades! Have a wonderful day/evening/sleep.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 20 2009 5:41:57 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 08:00:59 AM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Surrender is the answer to everything...after all there is no "doer" as you say...so running must always then be an ego based thing.
Yes. Surrender is the answer to everything. The silent answer
What I call "the running", is the movement of mind....away from this "silent answer"....which is always the same. I experience no "ego" per se.....there is only the movement away from the silence. The thought of "I"...is the identification with the body only. But even that is only a thought....it is not an "entity".....it is simply the first "running away from" what is.
quote:
I try to ask myself "what am I really afraid of, why am I feeling the need to run?" and this usually puts me in a place to realize what I am afraid of and allows me the ability to move more towards the witness state in which I can just surrender to what is.
This is great, Carson
quote:
No more running K?
Deal
Mind can do what it wants.....we stay put here. It stills itself when it is not fed by our attention.
quote:
If you remember the kinds of postings I was making when I first came to AYP I'm sure you can see the "mindyness" of them all...I hope that I don't come across so needy for answers anymore as I truly don't need them. All they do is create more biases that need to be lost, so....good bye need for answers! (and yes, there is no point in trying to describe what "is" as these are more of the same thoughts to be discarded in the future. No need to pile more thoughts ontop of the ones we are already trying to get rid of from before!
Yes
There is a great difference in the posts :-)
All that energy turned inwards......it is wonderful.
And hurray for twice a day a little practise
Am at work - must run (he, he )
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:16:41 AM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes. Surrender is the answer to everything. The silent answer
What I call "the running", is the movement of mind....away from this "silent answer"....which is always the same. I experience no "ego" per se.....there is only the movement away from the silence. The thought of "I"...is the identification with the body only. But even that is only a thought....it is not an "entity".....it is simply the first "running away from" what is.
I think my definition of "ego" is probably a little different from yours. What I call ego is basically anything involving the mind. Any decision, any reaction, any movement not made out of stillness, I call ego-based. Maybe this is incorrect but this is the way I see it. If what you are calling "running" is really "movement of the mind" I still see this as "ego". To me ego doesn't mean only identification with stories or thoughts, it goes much deeper then that to me. Ego is what holds "us" together....without ego there would be no "me". Who could I be without some form of ego? Could I even be alive without any ego? So I don't necessarily see the ego as all "bad"....right now anyways. What I DO see as "bad" is running from the silence. And from what you are saying, this is what it sounds like you are describing. Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but this is how it seems to me from what you are saying.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Mind can do what it wants.....we stay put here. It stills itself when it is not fed by our attention.
Mind can do what it wants, and mind WILL do what it wants, but we don't have to have any part in this....we can just silently sit and watch it make a fool of itself. Silly mind.
Love,
Carson
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 1:02:38 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Ego is what holds "us" together....without ego there would be no "me".
Exactly. Ego and "me" is the same.
quote:
Who could I be without some form of ego?
Yes........this is the question isn't it.....
Who am I......
quote:
Could I even be alive without any ego?
Yes...this is what needs to be inquired into isn't it....
Only our own direct experience can answer this......your question reminded me of a poem written in 2004.....:
Who is here with me?
I sense a presence
Someone is silently
sharing my space
Aware and awake
Awaiting my notice
Fronting my face
Patient and precious
A genuine gemstone
Lucid and light
Who is here with me?
A sound or a substance?
A day? A night?
And am I at all?
Is it truth or treason;
this “me” and “my”?
Can I dive and die
and still be a body?
An ear? An eye?
Quoting the question
is not nearly enough
How can I know?
Be the being
Intense inquiry
Follow the flow
Who is then really
perceiving this presence;
truth and essence?
What knows is nothing
When I am, I am gone
Which I? And where to?
Now
The quantum quest:
With no me existing;
Who then, is here?
quote:
So I don't necessarily see the ego as all "bad"....right now anyways. What I DO see as "bad" is running from the silence. And from what you are saying, this is what it sounds like you are describing. Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but this is how it seems to me from what you are saying.
I completely agree that this is not about "bad" or "good". And the running.....yes...... it doesn't serve us....that is all. If we want to find ....and abide....in the source and marrow of our very own existence.....then....running from silence doesn't serve us. To be still inside......is the easiest thing. Much easier than running. But the temptation to indulge in the the minds play.....thousands of wonderful interests.....hundreds of good ideas....you know how it goes........until the intelligence itself reveals the futility of it.....we go with mind. It is not a bad thing. I mean - most people on earth live fine in this way. But - when the longing inside is towards that which we owe everything......then the ballgame changes, doesn't it....
Ok, Carson
Enough of my ramblings
Time to meditate :-)
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 1:32:50 PM
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I enjoy all that you write Katrine....(especially the poetry)...So ramble away my dear!
Love,
Carson |
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Karma Yoga Self-Pacing
