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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 06:51:59 AM
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Hi,
This may sound like a stupid topic but I thought it was worth a shot
I was listening to Bob Dylan after many months again and that funny feeling I get from his music came back to me. It is mysterious and magic and special and uplifitng at the same time and it always gives me back this funny feeling. Like it taps into something deep somehow.
Well, me, I am new at this "spiritual practices business" and I have a tendency to want to unite everything, to find an unifying thread, a "theory of it all" kind of thing. I believe all is connected someway or another and special feelings arise when we understand the connections between things.
Well, since I always liked good, feeling-rich music, I wondered how this can relate (if in any way) to one's spiritual path and moreover, the spiritual practices, such as the ones in AYP. Well, it is probably easy to find a connection between music and spirituality in general (connection to the flow of life, the life-force wihin and everywhere, etc.) but from there to practices is another leap!
I mean, maybe this is the whole business of the sacred/profane dychotomy. When does one end and another start? Can they ever be unified? Ever? Why is there this dychotomy? Does it exist even or is it just an illusion?
The feelings I get from, say, rock and roll, must be profane no? And the feelings I get while meditating must be sacred. How do the two meet? Can they ever be felt as a single unit? Could this be the same difference between ecstasy (the feeling that makes you scream and jump at a concert) and bliss (the silent joy in meditation)? Or between the left-hand in Tantra (sensual pleasure as a part of spirituality) and the right-hand?
Wondering...I was just imagining Bobby sitting down in a lotus pose meditating I just cannot see that! And it makes me wonder: there HAS to be many ways to paradise, otherwise life and god would not be fair, since not everybody is drawn towards doing any spiritual practice (and many consider it a waste of time) and I don't see why those people cannot be enlightened! What do you think? |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 10:44:28 AM
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No mystery there. In the beginning was the Word, and then came the beat. Word and beat: music, life, the world. Poetry, music, the story, are echos of That.
Our artists by externalizing their experience give others means to elaborate their own. So, artists can raise us in Song, or destroy us in Hate. From transcended religious music from the likes of J.S. Bach or Vedic chant to the grittiness of hip-hop or in-your-faceness of Rock, there is a grand range to serve any purpose (didn't the Nazi party have their own chants and quasi-religion)?
Unfortunately, IMHO, music is not a path, but it could be a prelude and aid of a path. Ultimately, there is only a loud Silence, and that is only found by being in silence.
:jo-self
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 12:28:59 PM
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No I can't see Bobby meditating either, but the Beatles were into Transcendental Meditation. Dylan was a great poet forced to pick up the guitar to be heard. Artists like him feel the angst and hunger of their generation and express it and unite people in the process. That funny feeling we get from it is identification with the feelings of his generation. Minor nuances in his songs stimulate perceptual differences that were common when the songs were popular.
Unfortunately the force that drove them to be famous can later destroy them if they continue to cling to the angst and hunger. Meditation would be good for him, as last time I saw an interview he is very cynical and judgemental of the world as being wrong. Fortunately we have some leaders who have turned in a positive direction that leads people to action instead of cynicism.
As you guessed, the division between sacred and profane is illusory. That was developed by churches as a method to control us.
Meditation and the paths we follow today doesn't make any distinction between sacred and profane. There are practices that contribute to your path and others that subtract from it, but I assure you music is harmless.
Click on "Start lessons here" on the left of this page to read about it.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 1:23:52 PM
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Thank you Etherfish and Jo-self for that.
Hi Etherfish, thanks. Dont worry, I already started meditating 
quote:
That funny feeling we get from it is identification with the feelings of his generation.
This is a very interesting interpretation of this feeling. If that is so, music is magic if it can capture and communicate a particular feeling, isn't it? In that sense it can clearly be used as a spiritual veicule, no doubt. I make music myself and in the best of times it is like encapsulating a particular feeling/thought/sensation into sound and lyrics. It can be quite magical.
quote:
As you guessed, the division between sacred and profane is illusory. That was developed by churches as a method to control us.
Meditation and the paths we follow today doesn't make any distinction between sacred and profane. There are practices that contribute to your path and others that subtract from it, but I assure you music is harmless.
Again, very interesting! No division between profane and sacred then? I do agree with you this was imposed on us by many years of cultural and religious conditioning but I still feel it all around. The division, although illusory, it's still there and I am trying to see if I can dissolve the veil (over time of course). It would be wonderful to understand things as they are (enlightenmet?) and see the sacred in the profane and the profane in the sacred everytime, all the time, everywhere. I guess that is my goal! 
P.S.: As a side note I read an interview where Dylan mentions meditation. He says that while some people like to meditate on a particular word or image or thought he seems to meditate on music. He says he always has music in his head. A form of mantra I'd say |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 2:06:33 PM
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Well, music and mantra are two different things. Music doesn't bring stillness.
When I say no division between sacred and profane, I'd better qualify that before the evangelistic police lock me up. It's not OK to degrade what other people feel is sacred, and there are definitely things that are right and wrong in this world.
But a good spiritual path is not enhanced by feeling better than others because you avoid certain things.
Tantric yoga people try to avoid loss of sexual energy, but it's not evil when they falter.
Some priests try to be celibate, don't know what to do with that energy, and later do evil things.
So trying to restrain people with "sacred" barriers can sometimes make things much worse. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Nov 09 2008 2:06:53 PM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 4:27:57 PM
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Yes, very true. That is probably why AYP's system rings a bell with so many people (and thank God for that!) because it does not condemn behaviours and is all-inclusive. Furthermore it focuses in bringing what is good inside people first (inner silence through meditation) and then the moral conduct comes up naturally from that. Not the other way around, which would never work, of forcing a moral conduct on people and then expect them to see the good from their forced behaviour. That is the crux of the matter isn't it? Where do we go for guidance when lost, when we don't know what is right or wrong? Traditionally people seek guidance in the outside but it seems more and more that inside seems to be a better answer. If only you have inner silence present...
Thank you etherfish for participating in thsi discussion. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2008 : 12:15:52 PM
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Hi YogaIsLife,
ALL yoga systems teach nonjudgement of others if one is following the 8 limbs.This is not exclusive to AYP nor to yoga.Jesus taught exactly this as does the 10 commandments and my dad when I was growing up.All responsible parents would consider teaching their childrem these moral standards or else the world would be in anarchy.If Yogani was asking you to follow the yamas and niyamas without experiencing the effects of meditation or other practices, then most on here would have left a long time ago.The ego demands results, it is a part of our make up and not something we can choose.You speak as if your guidance comes only from the inside, if that was the case then all Yogani's lessons would not have been written and he has spent many hours writing them.I admire Yogani's efforts to not be judged as a guru but the fact is many on here consider him so,even if they don't believe it consciously.I am not writing this post to judge anyone , just stating what I believe is fact.Yogani's teachings are not an exclusive, his open teachings to all who are seeking are.
L&L
Dave |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2008 : 1:38:47 PM
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Sorry Dave, I did not get what you meant by your post.
You write
quote:
The ego demands results, it is a part of our make up and not something we can choose.You speak as if your guidance comes only from the inside, if that was the case then all Yogani's lessons would not have been written and he has spent many hours writing them.I admire Yogani's efforts to not be judged as a guru but the fact is many on here consider him so,even if they don't believe it consciously.I am not writing this post to judge anyone , just stating what I believe is fact.Yogani's teachings are not an exclusive, his open teachings to all who are seeking are.
But who denied this? I certainly didn't! And you say I speak as if my guidance comes only from the inside. Well, I don't know if I speak like this (maybe it is perceived by you as seeming that) but that was certainly not my intention to mean that. I am obviously very grateful for all the guidance I find outside and all the strength and light that I find, no doubt! It is true however that I also feel that there is ultimately an inner (or outer? it is hard to say which is which sometimes!) guidance that ultimately determines what I choose or not, and that is "mine" alone. But in any case it was not my intention to even bring this subject up! I was just saying that I think AYP is great - exactly for the same reasons you pointed out - and that it is great that someone knowledgeble (Yogani) reinforces the idea that ultimately the guru is in you. The guru is IN YOU! |
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porcupine
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 10:32:56 AM
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Hmm I've been thinking about this a lot myself, having recently given up on meditation and asanas for a bit, I recognize the benefit they have, but also I feel a need to lead a 'normal' life more than ever and recently in meditation it feels like I'm not reaching the same states that I do just going about my daily business (wierd huh?). I've always felt like technically all things are god yeah. But now its really becoming apparent, like the zen story about the master who is out in the field working, the new student approaches him and asks 'hey why are you out here harvesting crops? shouldn't you be staring at a wall or something, totally enlightened?' and the master replies 'How can I know anything about zen if I'm not experiencing it first hand in life?'. At first I thought that just meant you had to practice, you had to bring sit long in zazen and maintain the same state of mind after you get up too.
But over time, zazen state of mind became less apparent to me, I realized, all in all its just a body posture, if I am letting the thoughts come and not interfering.. then sometimes I never even get to that point of sitting haha. But I guess the sitting isn't really the point. Its like the difference between the book and the experience.
And anyways, if everyone just did yoga poses all day/sat and looked, we'd sure have a lot of ecstasy and enlightenment.. but would we have fun? yoga becomes the daily life and daily life becomes the yoga...
i have a feeling music is just the sage in true form, totally unexplainable, no matter how profane, if its got that groove, if it makes you feel good.. isn't that the goal? |
Edited by - porcupine on Jan 13 2009 10:36:28 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2009 : 12:12:20 PM
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quote:
yoga becomes the daily life and daily life becomes the yoga...
you pretty much summed it all for me in this sentence. I'd say Yoga IS the daily life. When I do it I am just kind of recharging the spirit, nothing else, like sleep recharges the mind and body. Ordinary life would be crap if noone ever slept wouldn't it? I guess is the same with meditation - a bath for the soul.
Now, music, there's a mystery...music moves you, it moves your soul, up, down, to the sides, all over the place. Music is ecstasy, it's part of the "prana movement" of energy expressions. A beautiful thing to be enjoyed for sure. But not enlightenment by itself, I don't think.
Thanks for your thoughts porcupine. |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2014 : 8:51:51 PM
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| Bob dylan,wasnt he the one who begged shine your light,shine your light on me,also did recognize the truth is in our hearts and we still dont believe,these quotes áre from the song. Precious angel one of the most beautiful songs ive ever listened to,he and cat stevens were very special to me.i dont know were did he got such inspiration but he keept the world in tune. |
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Bob Dylan and Enlightenment
