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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 08 2008 : 5:32:55 PM
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I read the tantra book, but I have read so many books I forget some things The clear liquid that comes out, is that considered semen and los of energy?
thanks
Neil
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 11:04:31 AM
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Hi Neil,
quote:
I read the tantra book, but I have read so many books I forget some things The clear liquid that comes out, is that considered semen and los of energy?
I think I know what you are asking. Sometimes a clear fluid can leak from the penis, which seems different from semen released during orgasm. Maybe there is a medical proffessional on the forum at the moment who can tell us if this is semen or not. I suspect it is.
As to the question about loss of energy that is easy.... If you experience a loss of energy then that is a loss of energy. It is actually possible to have an orgasm and not loose energy. This is discussed in a famous book on Tantra by a Taoist master, and has been discussed here in the forum a few times. So the easiest way to govern your own experience is through what you actually feel. If you are not sure, then do it a few times, and you should be able to tell then.
Christi |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 12:55:59 PM
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In slang, this is called "pre-cum" and is a natural lubricant which oozes from the penis during and after sexual excitement. It is technically called PRE-SEMINAL FLUID. It has about one thousand sperm swimming in it. Most men do not know this happens because they cannot feel it coming out. It is for lubrication, and has no bearing on actual loss of semen or energy.
Michael |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2008 : 1:17:22 PM
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Hi,
The leaking of the clear fluid is termed emission. Emission is a phase of the larger ejaculatory process. The fluid does contain sperm (although no where near the amount present in the actual ejaculate) as well as other chemicals from glands that are part of the genital system (prostate, seminal vessicles,etc....) In individuals not practicing retention and cultivation of the sexual energy, emission is followed by the muscular contractions that cause much more semen and other fluid to be forced out, i.e, genital orgasm.
While practicing tantra, I wouldn't get too worked up about the emission process. Energy wise. we have to consider the amount generated or redirected upwards versus lost in expulsion. During tantric sessions the amount redirected will be exponentially more than that lost during emission. In fact, people have reported no loss of great energy even when they have ejaculated in moderation. So don't worry about emission or nocturnal ejaculations, etc..... Keep with the practices and in my short experience the desire for genital sex as well as associated emotions are markedly reduced and transmuted for higher purposes.
In the mean time, just as Christi suggested, find what constitutes moderation for you by keeping track of energy levels and sexual experiences.
eitherway |
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sushman
India
86 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2008 : 3:08:13 PM
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I am kind of confused and need some clarification on this.
(1) Why there is an energy loss because of ejaculation? is it because the body has to replensih the lost semen again? if its so, why do we feel immediate energy loss after ejaculation, as semen is not really energizing our body directly. if the energy goes down after sometime (due to semen creation) I can understand that.
I definitely feel somewhat down in energy after ejaculation. no doubt. but want to understand this process better.
(2) what happens if the semen is retained?
does it not get produced as part of the regular metabolic process (or whatever that process is called) in producting blood, semen, etc from food?. In this case, if the semen is already available, is it not produced again? is that how energy is conserved?
(3) when we do tantra, we are talking about energy cultivation and redirection (upwards). how/where is this energy getting generated? what is flowing upwards? is it prana? is it flowing through our ida and pingala nadis?. i definitely feel tingling energy flowing upwards (in the lower back region only at this point) during tantra masturbation. so i am not denying it. but want to understand this energy cultivation and flow better. |
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sushman
India
86 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 12:33:38 AM
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| Can anyone respond please? |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 6:34:32 PM
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Hi Sushman
I am sorry you had to wait so long to get a response to your questions 
First of all - I strongly recommend Yoganis Tantra book!
I am no expert, and a female too..........but at least the principles concerning energy loss are the same for both sexes
quote:
(1) Why there is an energy loss because of ejaculation?
The energy that is lost during ejaculation is the same as the life force. You spend this energy when you have a normal orgasm/ejaculation. A man loses more energy than a female....simply because it is his role to plant the seed in her. But a woman too will lose energy during orgasm.....at least if she has several in a row. In yogic terms the life force is called Prana.
quote:
is it because the body has to replensih the lost semen again?
The semen contains a lot of prana, so yes. But orgasm is also an instant energy loss similar what happens when you sneeze
quote:
(2) what happens if the semen is retained?
Retaining semen is not something that should be forced. If one is not engaged in spiritual practises like AYP (particularly deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama) that lead to purification of the nervous system and encourages the sexual energy to move to a higher expression....a spiritual expression, then retaining semen can lead to stagnation and imbalance. So...it is important to know that we want to preserve the energy as well as cultivate it.
quote:
does it not get produced as part of the regular metabolic process (or whatever that process is called) in producting blood, semen, etc from food?. In this case, if the semen is already available, is it not produced again? is that how energy is conserved?
Yes. The production of semen is part of the regular metabolic process. I hope someone else can answer the question regarding the details around this production....
quote:
(3) when we do tantra, we are talking about energy cultivation and redirection (upwards). how/where is this energy getting generated?
When one stays pre-orgasmic, and at the same time engages in daily practises that cultivates inner silence (deep meditation) and also stimulate the rise of ecstatic conductivity (spinal breathing pranayama) the sexual energy will eventually travel upwards as ecstatic conductivity (Kundalini). I guess you could say it is a transformation of the gross energy found stored in the semen/pelvis into something that is sublimated into every cell of your body.
quote:
what is flowing upwards? is it prana?
Yes. It is prana.
quote:
is it flowing through our ida and pingala nadis?. i definitely feel tingling energy flowing upwards (in the lower back region only at this point) during tantra masturbation. so i am not denying it. but want to understand this energy cultivation and flow better
It is flowing through many nadis, but its "highway" is the spinal chord (sushumna)....and from here it spreads via all the many nerves throughout the body.
In AYP we do not pay a lot of attention to "where the energy is going" during practises. We consider this scenery. We stay with the simple practise (mantra, spinal breathing pranayama etc). The important thing is consistant daily practises. That will lead to the joining of inner silence with ecstatic conductivity. This is the natural outcome of the practise, so we allow the rest to unfold by itself. And in between practises - we go out and live an active life.
I hope this was of some help.
Please feel free to ask if anything is unclear.....I hope others here will chime in too.
Good luck with everything
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 03:20:14 AM
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hello Sushman, i actually tried replying to your post twice but what you're asking is heavy and needs detailed description and time to be written about.
thk god Katrine shimed in and gave us her beautiful reply, other than what she mentioned above check these stuff out whom i think they could fill in the few gaps left.
on the matter of ejaculation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejaculation
quote: Ejaculation has two phases: emission and ejaculation proper. The emission phase of the ejaculatory reflex is under control of the sympathetic nervous system, while the ejaculatory phase is under control of a spinal reflex at the level of the spinal nerves S2-4 via the pudendal nerve. A refractory period succeeds the ejaculation, and sexual stimulation precedes it.
here we see the relation between the spine, the nervous system and the act of ejaculation.
this is another text that might help if you put it into context witht the above: http://gracefulgnosis.blogspot.com/...ransmut.html
quote from text: According to yogic science, semen exists in a subtle form throughout the whole body. It is found in a subtle state in all the cells of the body. It is withdrawn and elaborated into a gross form in the sexual organ under the influence of the sexual will and sexual excitement. An urdhvareta yogi not only converts the semen into ojas, but checks through his yogic power, through purity in thought, word and deed, the very formation of semen by the secretary cells of the testes or seeds. This is a great secret. Allopaths believe that even in an urdhvareta yogi, the formation of semen goes on incessantly and that the fluid is reabsorbed into the blood. This is a mistake. They do not understand the inner yogic secrets and mysteries. They are in the dark. Their drishti or vision is concerned with the gross things of the universe. The yogi penetrates into the subtle hidden nature of things through yogic chakshu or the inner vision of wisdom. The yogi gets control over the astral nature of semen and thereby prevents the formation of the very fluid itself.
in the above we see two points on the matter one who is very spiritual by swami sivanananda whom i have the utmost respect to but his point of view here kind of keeps us in the dark and the other which is quite more down to earth and closer to what is more rational is more easy to relate too.
it describes the sperm as a part of the fuel which the body needs to operate fully; it's like one of them old trains who work on the consumption of coal, if you don't put in enough coal in the fire engine the train will slow down in activity and it won't be as active as it used too.
maybe this is the reason why we always hunger after sexual activity.
plus this is another link concerning the semen and it's essence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen
i found the knowledge in it very interesting, did you know that your Semen as an anti-depressant effect  plus the link covers some stuff about "sacred semen and it's relation to buddhism", chi kong, chinese medecine...
hope this stuff could help.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Jan 17 2009 03:22:23 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 03:39:53 AM
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Hi Shushman,
quote:
(1) Why there is an energy loss because of ejaculation? Is it because the body has to replenish the lost semen again? If its so, why do we feel immediate energy loss after ejaculation, as semen is not really energizing our body directly. If the energy goes down after sometime (due to semen creation) I can understand that.
I definitely feel somewhat down in energy after ejaculation. No doubt. But want to understand this process better.
I hope I won't duplicate too much of what Katrine wrote above. As a man, I can second what she says.
It is true that the energy loss does not come from the regeneration of sperm, as the energy loss is immediate, as you say, and the regeneration takes time. In Yoga it is said that we take energy from the universe in various ways, and this energy is stored in the body. It is stored throughout the body, and especially in certain energy centres. One of the main storehouses is an energy centre called the kanda chakra which is located between the root chakra and the second chakra (swadishtana).
The interesting thing about ejaculation is that the energy loss varies depending on how it happens. With straight forward ejaculation, there is a marked loss of energy. If we block the ejaculation during orgasm, we loose noticeably less energy. With blocking, the semen (and sperm) are forced up into the bladder, and are vacated from the body during urination. So we still loose the same sexual fluids from the body, but with less energy loss. It is also possible to reach orgasm and to not ejaculate at all (no blocking or pelvic floor contractions). When this happens we don't loose any energy. So the relationship between orgasm, ejaculation and energy loss (loss of prana) is a complex one, but in the end it is caused by a loss of prana from the body, and not by the regeneration of sperm or semen.
quote:
(2) what happens if the semen is retained?
Does it not get produced as part of the regular metabolic process (or whatever that process is called) in producing blood, semen, etc from food? In this case, if the semen is already available, is it not produced again? Is that how energy is conserved?
If there is no ejaculation semen and sperm are reabsorbed continually into the body and new sexual fluids are created.
quote:
(3) when we do tantra, we are talking about energy cultivation and redirection (upwards). how/where is this energy getting generated? what is flowing upwards? is it prana? is it flowing through our ida and pingala nadis?. i definitely feel tingling energy flowing upwards (in the lower back region only at this point) during tantra masturbation. so i am not denying it. but want to understand this energy cultivation and flow better.
With spiritual practices there are two separate processes going on. One is the movement of prana up through the body into the higher energy centres and out into the universe above us. The second is the movement of sexual fluids upwards first into the bladder and then into the GI tract and into the stomach. From there the sexual fluids mix with food and air and are transformed into a subtle substance called soma. This substance is taken up into the head and drips down in various ways both inside the body and outside it.
Prana from the kanda chakra (and from the rest of the body and the environment around us) will flow up through the Ida and pingala nadis, but the most transformation happens when prana flows through the sushumna nadi. Semen does not travel through the nadis on its way up to the stomach, as it is a material substance and the nadis only carry immaterial substances. Above the stomach it would have to travel through the nadis but I could not tell you which ones.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 03:41:33 AM
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Hi Ananda,
We posted at the same time.
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 04:02:50 AM
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Thank you Christi, that was a great post - very clarifying!
Ananda, thanks for the interesting links.
Sushman :
Thank you so much for bringing this topic into view; I am learning much from it
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 05:50:36 AM
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great post Christy :), thk you for the clear and insightful post.
i will keep a copy of it with me and relate to you concerning it later on.
we are really blessed in this community to be in the presence of people such as yourself and katrine.
oh and i scd that katrine, thk you Sushman for bringing up this topic.
light and love,
Ananda |
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sushman
India
86 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2009 : 08:30:33 AM
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| Thanks much, Katrine, Christi and Ananda for the elaborate answers and interesting links. That helped a great deal. |
Edited by - sushman on Jan 18 2009 08:41:24 AM |
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lover
Philippines
35 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2009 : 11:42:22 PM
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hello guys,
this discussion really captured my attention..honestly,it has been a long time that i was really curious about this thing- pre-ejaculate..
through research on the internet,i read that it does contain sperms and others claim it doesn't.which is which?
Has anyone of you here can share if it really does contain sperms.And can it really cause pregnancy?
your kind help is really appreciated..Honest..
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wotanica
Norway
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2009 : 9:22:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wotanica
[quote]Originally posted by brother neil
I read the tantra book, but I have read so many books I forget some things The clear liquid that comes out, is that considered semen and los of energy?
thanks
Neil
The clear fluid is lubrication, but it is also energetic (And yes, you can get people pregnant on it - because sperm always escapes and follow the lubrication. Thats life for ya). Just putting a penis into a vagina is enough to make her pregnant. I have even heard of a man whom ejaculated into his gf's underpants as a joke, and she got pregnant from wearing it the next day).
The reason the body produce this, is because the ph-value of sperm is different from the rest of the body (hence prostate is so tricky to fix for the doctors). Sperm is acidic, alcaline - like batteries - because sperm cells need energy to live. So the seminal fluids are "charged" by your life energy. The more you jerk off, the less life you will have. Take that into concideration as well. Loss of memory is a sign you might gave been "to active" earlier. I would try a month or two of celebacy and workouts to cure that first(eith plenty of omega oils and fish).
If you dont produce this lubrication, it would burn like hell to have an orgasm (i know, my prostate got fixed in contracted position once).
Hence "the fire of lust".
Best way, is to think of your legs (thighs) as batteries - and your shin as a prana pump (john the baptist).
When the orgasm comes, energy shoots up from the legs and energize the sperm (see zodiac sign assigned to legs, the archer. And scorpio for the "sting" of death). While sperm is charged they can live up to 3 days max - if the man is extremely virile and the environment suitable.
There is, or so it seems to me, to be a trade off here.
The moment you get aroused, your body begins to produce these waters (3 types). and that is expensive for the body. So if your struggeling with low energy. Then perhaps you should give it a rest for a while.
Dont over do it. Like the buddha said "dont exploit the passions":
Once in a while is fine, but if you over do it, you can hurt yourself badly. |
Edited by - wotanica on Oct 02 2009 9:26:18 PM |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2009 : 1:00:40 PM
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The pre-ejaculatory fluid (cowper's gland secretions) doesn't normally have sperm in it. It only does if you recently ejaculated and haven't urinated to rinse out any stragglers. If you say, had sex with a condom on, but then took off the condom, wiped yourself off and put it back in, then you could get someone pregnant as there are probably straggler sperm left in the urethra which the pre-ejaculatory fluid can carry out (not to mention potentially on the outside of the penis if you don't wash thoroughly). If you haven't ejaculated recently or if you wash yourself thoroughly and urinate after ejaculating, then there's virtually no chance of pregnancy. Of course, the only 100% way to avoid pregnancy is just not to engage in any sexual activity at all. But the chances of getting someone pregnant with just the cowper's gland secretions and no recent ejaculation are virtually 0.
Also, don't know if someone's replied to this effect already, but I'm pretty sure Yogani has said elsewhere that the loss of energy from pre-cum is negligible. This has certainly been my experience as well. |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Oct 05 2009 1:03:34 PM |
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NSB
Australia
32 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2009 : 3:35:58 PM
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quote:
But the chances of getting someone pregnant with just the cowper's gland secretions and no recent ejaculation are virtually 0.
I am sitting here with 2 children who were conceived with cowpers gland secretions. Recent ejaculation was not a factor... at least as far as I know (I'm a woman!)
Nicole |
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lover
Philippines
35 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2009 : 04:56:56 AM
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hello Nicole,
Really,U did conceive?Are u sure that there was no recent ejaculation a day or so before you had engage intimately?
u know,it's not that i'm so obsessed with this idea,it's just that i'm happy to know the experiences of others.
By the way,before that,have you and your husband been practicing non-ejaculatory sex for quite sometime?
Wish to read from you..Good day! |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 8:30:20 PM
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quote:
The interesting thing about ejaculation is that the energy loss varies depending on how it happens. With straight forward ejaculation, there is a marked loss of energy. If we block the ejaculation during orgasm, we loose noticeably less energy. With blocking, the semen (and sperm) are forced up into the bladder, and are vacated from the body during urination. So we still loose the same sexual fluids from the body, but with less energy loss. It is also possible to reach orgasm and to not ejaculate at all (no blocking or pelvic floor contractions). When this happens we don't loose any energy. So the relationship between orgasm, ejaculation and energy loss (loss of prana) is a complex one, but in the end it is caused by a loss of prana from the body, and not by the regeneration of sperm or semen.
Hi, isn't it also true that if ejaculation is delayed (but happens) after long pre-orgasmic intercourse the energy lose is also smaller than with relatively short intercourse quickly aimed at ejaculation? |
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loosing energy
