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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 06 2008 : 11:18:46 PM
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Hello friends,
I am stuck in a zone where everything seems real but nothing actually is. Its all an illusional zone.
Anyone who have through this zone and not living or stuck in this illusional zone please tell me how do I get out of it.
This zone shows devas and demons, in reality they are just normal entities playing the mind game.
One of the other problems is these entities are giving me diseases, infections, which I don't know how to tackle.
Yes I am taking the medical help when I feel anything.
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taken from this website
http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/IZ_guru.html
Some examples of possible Intermediate Zone gurus
I have met in person or at least had darshan/satsang with four gurus, each of which is very different. Three of them would seem to fit the description of Intermediate Zone.
The second was Barry Long, who I heard at a talk, and afterwards went up and spoke to him briefly, many many years ago. The Ligbt and Love I felt from him was amazing, and for a very long time I considered him a genuine Enlightened being (just as I thought Da Free John was, until I heard about his abusive behaviour). Nevertheless, I was never attracted to following him, nor was there any connection or resonance on the subtlke levels, such as I felt with Sai Baba. Barry Long's teachings are more interesting and subtle than Sai Baba's. He seemed at the time to have a sensitivity to women and an awareness of the unfairness and injustice of woman's position and oppression in a male society. However there seem to be some controversies around him, due to his "neo-Tantric" position. I don't know enough about him to speak at length on this, but no longer consider him a fully enlightened being.
The third, around 1988, was Swami Krishna, a Tantric Guru who at the time lived just down the road from me, and had gathered around him a local following of naive and gullible adoring Western devotees, from whom he received a large amount of both money and sex. My feeling is that he was a nice and decent if somewhat egotistic guy, who simply did not realise the way he is exploitating his followers. Like a much more powerful guru, Papaji, Swamiji genuinely doesn't seem to understand the Western mindset and the spiritual weakness of westerners. He had an amazing presence about him, it was a buzz that produced a sort of "high". It is likely that his devotees fed on this, and he likewise took advantage of them fnancially and sexually, resulting in a relationship that could not be spiritually beneficial to either party. I only heard one of his talks, and apart from one moment of genuine humility there was nothing in his teachings that stuck in my mind, the same old watered down pop Hinduism, albeit of an Osho Rajneeshi highly sexualised tone. Nevertheless he did take a liking to me, and remembered me from when I had seen him some 8 or 9 years previously at La Trobe University. He also seemed drunk afterwards at the dinner at his center. So very much a Trungpa/Osho type figure. The buzz I felt in his presence did not continue after I left, there was nothing in his teachings that attracted me, nothing in his words that indicated development of the level of other intermediate zone gurus like Da Free John, Barry Long, or Muktananda. I found the massive donations he asked from his devotees, and his own claims of sadguru-hood, to be off-putting. He may be not so much Intermediate Zone as Subtle-level ordinary consciousness. Nevertheless I am including him here as a "borderline" example, he could equally be considered Intermediate Zone or non-intermediate zone. All this was some 19 years ago, but he is still around (see link), although no longer in Melbourne.
One guru that I heard talk (about this same time) and came away convinced that he had no spiritua,l experience was Guru Maharaji (before he became Prem Rawat). Nevertheless his devotees, including a friend who later set himself up as a guru, came away full of emotional high. So maybe Maharaji did have power, but I wasn't receptive to it. Or maybe they were just like born-again Christians and other emotionalistic cults. Really, it is very difficult to tell. But for now I am classifying Maharaji as ordinary consciousness. His case does show that just because a guru is worshipped doesn't mean they are at the level of the intermediate zone.
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this is the intermediate zone defination:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_zone |
Edited by - arzkiyahai on Aug 07 2008 6:13:51 PM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 01:38:27 AM
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to get out of it, you go into it, always. You go into this moment. You don't force stuff to come up though... that's jsut ignorance, what I call "the freedom disease". The disease of bringing up problems and finding solutions... over and over and over again. It just comes down to practice of being in the moment. To getting better at feeling. It's not so much about feeling better, but getting better at feeling. The mind is a tool, it should be used as such, there's no need to make an enemy of it, to make an enemy of thoughts. Just allow the heart to lead, you can't force that, there's no button for it, you simply allow a space for love to take place.
The mind can't lead the heart, though the heart can lead the mind. I almost live by this. It basically saved me of being a schizo (ps, if anyones worrying, I got checked out, I'm fine, I don't need meds. The psychiatrist dude I saw thinks I maybe meditated my way out of schizophrenia. It was cool how much he knew about philosophy and meditation :) ). |
Edited by - Divineis on Aug 09 2008 06:49:45 AM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 10:33:41 AM
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Hi arzkiyahai:
Getting beyond the illusion is very simple. It is done by relying first on our own spiritual intuition, rather than on anyone else's, no matter what their status may be. This does not mean we shun all gurus and teachers. That would be as foolish as blindly following one without our inner resonance being constantly consulted for reality checks. All teachers have something to offer, and we can also count on them having qualities we do not wish to indulge in. See this lesson on "enlightenment and perfection" http://www.aypsite.org/260.html
The best way to increase our spiritual intuition is by increasing our abiding inner silence. Here in AYP, that is accomplished through twice-daily deep meditation. Then we gradually become much better able to separate the wheat from the chaff, and we can graze almost anywhere in the vast assemblage of gurus, spiritual teachers and spiritual writings and come away unscathed with something worthwhile. It works!
You know, we are pretty careful around here about drifting into what we call "guru bashing," and, in fact, outright guru bashing is not permitted in the forums, though we can bash ourselves if we like. 
Nevertheless, I think it is important that we understand why so much good can be accompanied by so much harm in the spiritual teaching profession. And, more importantly, how we can move forward in ways that will increase the good while minimizing the mishaps.
In this regard, the articles you have linked above on the "intermediate zone" are very informative and helpful, even though some of the guru assessments included are biased.
Of particular interest here is the observation that spiritual teaching in the West is evolving to move beyond the pitfalls of the past to what one author calls a Peer-to-Peer teaching model (see summary below).
Here in AYP, we call it the "horizontal transmission model," where spiritual resources are developed, shared, applied and optimized through the cooperative efforts of many. This way, no one person is able to drag the crowd too far in the wrong direction. Will this work? Time will tell...
To date, the spiritual progress many are unfolding has exceeded expectations. That is to everyone's credit.
So, rather than carrying on the unending search for the perfect external guru/avatar, we can make the best of what we have and go forward from where we are. Everything we need is within us already. There is sufficient spiritual enlivenment in the air now to support this approach anywhere on Earth. These days, a little spiritual desire (bhakti) goes a long way toward attracting the help we need.
Plus, in this information age it is becoming much easier, because accessing real spiritual knowledge and powerful practices is no longer the problem it used to be. We can now create "safe harbors" of effective knowledge that can be applied for ongoing purification and opening of ourselves and used as a base for exploration of additional sources of knowledge. In fact, in this scenario, accessing gurus and teachers is not a problem at all. We can take what has value and move on as necessary, avoiding the common pitfalls of hierarchal systems that we have come to know so well.
All the best on your continuing path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Evolution through four phases of guru phenomenon in the West
(Credited to John Heron: see half way down the page here)
1. In the late decades of the nineteenth century and early decades of the twentieth century, there was just a small guru-invasion from the East with key players like Vivekananda and the spread of the Vedanta movement in the West.
2. Then post-war from 1945 with the publication of Huxley's The Perennial Philosophy, there started a major guru-invasion from the East including the dramatic spread through the 60s and the 70s of Zen and Tibetan Buddhism in the USA and Europe.
3. In the third phase, over the last thirty years or so, alongside the guru-invasion from the East there has been the growing phenomenon of homegrown Western gurus and spiritual teachers claiming the special status of 'enlightenment'.
4. The fourth phase is just getting under way. It seems to be distinguished by four features:
----a. The erosion of guru status as a result of sexual and financial abuse and bullying scandals among both Eastern and homegrown Western gurus and spiritual teachers.
----b. The erosion of 'enlightenment' claims by the proliferation of the number of people, especially in the West, making the claim: the more people who make the claim, the more its narcissistic inflation stands revealed. For the 'enlightenment' claim is also an authority-claim to have followers, a recruiting drive; and the more claims that are made, the stronger the competition among claimants in the market-place for attention.
----c. A growing awareness that spiritual authority is within and that to project it outward onto teacher, tradition or text is an early, adolescent phase of spiritual development in the one projecting, and counter-spiritual manipulative abuse in any guru/teacher who seeks to elicit, to appropriate and to sustain the projection.
----d. The emergence of peer to peer spirituality, which democratizes charismatic, enlightened leadership, and realizes that it is a role which different persons assume at different times, either in the initiation of a peer group or in the continuous unfolding of its process.
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PS: Here is an AYP lesson that also traces the rise of Eastern spiritual teachings in the West, including extensive linking to the associated literature/booklist: http://www.aypsite.org/253.html
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 1:29:34 PM
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Hi again arzkiyahai:
Regarding your personal situation, the suggestion is to favor daily spiritual practices over the easily expandable mental drama of experiences.
Like the many gurus who go astray, getting caught up in the "scenery" of their journey, so too can we go astray when we become overly enamored or fearful about the scenery we encounter along our path. The illusion is our own projection occurring through the mechanics of our perception. We always have a choice about how to regard this, though it might not seem so.
With the prudent application of spiritual practices over time, our perception can be expanded beyond limited illusory projections, and we can move decisively toward greater freedom, even if the same scenery continues to occur within and around us.
One of the best uses for "self-inquiry" is found in allowing experiences to happen without becoming embroiled in them. It is our own burgeoning mind stuff we are interacting with. Abiding inner silence (the witness) is the key in getting beyond this. To the degree we have inner silence, it can be used in this way. It is a natural development that comes with the rise of the witness. As mentioned in the above post, we can increase our inner silence through daily deep meditation.
There are other means that have been discussed extensively in the AYP writings and here in the forums for dealing with excessive energy and other discomforts that may come up. It will depend on your history and spiritual practices what other measures may be applicable. The best place to start in AYP is at the beginning, taking it one step at a time: http://www.aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 2:11:31 PM
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Thank you yogani, you've been one of my greatest guides in life, I really mean that. The simplicity of your message... I often forget the wisdom in utter simplicity, but you've been a great reminder.
ps. I've recently started the "I am" meditation, with just a bit of spinal breathing here and there. The technique of no technique has broughten me quite far, I see much value in it, and I know one day I'll once again have to drop all techniques, though until then, I trust you and your simple step by step methods :). Appealing to the mass (often in my head) is tempting... hehe, tis the age of quick delivery, "quick" fixes, though I trust (I know!!) those that have a true spiritual desire will find what they need and progress appropriately on their journey. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 4:50:01 PM
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Hi Arzkiyahai and Yogani,
Thanks for the Guru info and links. Its helpful for keeping things in perspective and reconciling the inconsistent behavior of some gurus.
Best, yb. |
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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 10:18:16 PM
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Hello Yogani, thankyou for your priceless and very helpful reply.
I am doing spinal breathing pranayama for some time now.
I have couple of questions in regard to daily practices:
1. I talked to someone and he suggested me that at this moment the best thing for me to is grounded and he told me that meditation is very ungrounding, it leaves us ungrounded. That was the main reason for me not doing meditation at the moment. Please suggest me on this.
2. I have started eating chicken. Hoping it is good for grounding.
thanks again.
kindest regards from my heart |
Edited by - arzkiyahai on Aug 08 2008 06:31:45 AM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 12:30:47 AM
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ughh, I hate doing this here, but somehow I feel it'll make its way to some still holding some completely wrong beliefs about me (excuse me for taking over the boards and this topic for my own dramas...).
I'm pretty sure some hold the belief that I'm a stalker... I'm not, I never was, I never will be. I do know which situations possibly led to this belief though, situation a) I was at my uni, looking for my buddys car, I got lost, ended up going in a few circles, a few girls were nearby... they knew of the above dramas, they thought I was following them or something, yelled out "stalker" if I remember correctly... I was just lost.
Situation B) I was on the bus, pulled the cord at the wrong stop, and thus... didn't get off at the stop that it seemed I should of. Some girl got off at the stop I was getting off at (a bit ahead of my stop actually). I was headed to my house... she was walking ahead of me, and just stopped at one point, let me go ahead of her... she thought I was following her I suppose. This whole affair happened ON MY STREET, while I was headed TO MY HOME.
Consider this a lesson in paranoia, illusion and holding unfounded beliefs against people.
Again, I really wish I didn't have to write this stuff on the boards here, though I have this strong feeling that somehow, "Ottawa citizens are watching".
Thank you, and namaste.
Sebastien Migneault. |
Edited by - Divineis on Aug 08 2008 03:44:14 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 03:51:10 AM
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Hi Sebastien
Thank you for being so honest.
What you bring up seems like an important dimension for you to explore. Would suggest you look into the essence of it and maybe start a new thread to explore it properly.
Namaste
Louis |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 09:49:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by arzkiyahai
Hello Yogani, thankyou for your priceless and very helpful reply.
I am doing spinal breathing pranayama for some time now.
I have couple of questions in regard to daily practices:
1. I talked to someone and he suggested me that at this moment the best thing for me to is grounded and he told me that meditation is very ungrounding, it leaves us ungrounded. That was the main reason for me not doing meditation at the moment. Please suggest me on this.
2. I have started eating chicken. Hoping it is good for grounding.
thanks again.
kindest regards from my heart
Hi arzkiyahai:
Spinal breathing will usually be calming and balancing, but there are exceptions, so be moderate. If energy is increasing in uncomfortable ways, scale back on spinal breathing.
It can be just the other way with deep meditation, depending on the nature of your nervous system and events occurring. Deep meditation cultivates inner silence, which is the ground state of the cosmos and everything in it. So to say deep meditation is not grounding is not recognizing what it is about. On the other hand, in order to cultivate inner silence, purification and opening will occur in the nervous system. This process is stimulated by deep meditation, and may not feel very grounding, depending on the condition of the nervous system. It will depend on your constitution, history and other factors.
There is one easy way to find out if deep meditation will be helpful, and that is to try a light twice daily routine and see what happens. Only about 10 minutes of deep meditation per session starting out, morning and afternoon, after spinal breathing, which should also be light (5 min or so). See the AYP lessons for detailed instructions. If this aggravates the situation, then scale back. No harm done.
Yes, a heavier diet will help quell an overactive kundalini -- your choice on what to eat. An ayurveda vata and/or pitta pacifying diet can also help a kundalini excess. But it is not clear that this is an overactive kundalini, so there are unknowns. This is why it is good to know the long term history of practices (if any) and experiences.
Also check this FAQ for more on grounding: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2165
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 7:55:47 PM
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| thanks sparkle, I really appreciate that. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 11:15:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
ughh, I hate doing this here, but somehow I feel it'll make its way to some still holding some completely wrong beliefs about me (excuse me for taking over the boards and this topic for my own dramas...).
I'm pretty sure some hold the belief that I'm a stalker... I'm not, I never was, I never will be. I do know which situations possibly led to this belief though, situation a) I was at my uni, looking for my buddys car, I got lost, ended up going in a few circles, a few girls were nearby... they knew of the above dramas, they thought I was following them or something, yelled out "stalker" if I remember correctly... I was just lost.
Situation B) I was on the bus, pulled the cord at the wrong stop, and thus... didn't get off at the stop that it seemed I should of. Some girl got off at the stop I was getting off at (a bit ahead of my stop actually). I was headed to my house... she was walking ahead of me, and just stopped at one point, let me go ahead of her... she thought I was following her I suppose. This whole affair happened ON MY STREET, while I was headed TO MY HOME.
Consider this a lesson in paranoia, illusion and holding unfounded beliefs against people.
Again, I really wish I didn't have to write this stuff on the boards here, though I have this strong feeling that somehow, "Ottawa citizens are watching".
Thank you, and namaste.
Sebastien Migneault.
Things like that happen to me sometimes. Maybe at such times recently I make sure and engage with lightness, meaning I may smile warmly and radiate safety and peace, perhaps respond jokingly or honestly and slowly share some light, simple conversation, then go on my way. Sometimes stopping to offer a little courtesy diffuses the oddness of the energetic event and makes it something more innocent and OK. I find it alright in my case to acknowledge to myself any attraction I may feel toward someone, that gets it out rather than bottling it up where it may cause discomfort or awkwardness.
I know this isn't the original thread but wanted to respond to Divineis because i have had similar things happen perhaps. Thanks! |
Edited by - Balance on Aug 09 2008 12:11:41 AM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2008 : 03:28:26 AM
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| Thanks Balance. I feel that's what's slowly unravelling in me these days. I still mess up. Sometimes I'll be a bit try hard in getting others to understand my pt of view, my humanness, or I can't help but give certain people a bit of a disappointed look. For the most part I can just smile and maybe laugh a bit lovingly at the ignorances I do understand (in others and myself, when some "release" of some sort takes place). Love and laughter is definitely the greatest cure for illusion. That loving kind of laughter though, the kind that keeps us whole :). |
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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 10:30:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by arzkiyahai
Hi arzkiyahai:
Spinal breathing will usually be calming and balancing, but there are exceptions, so be moderate. If energy is increasing in uncomfortable ways, scale back on spinal breathing.
It can be just the other way with deep meditation, depending on the nature of your nervous system and events occurring. Deep meditation cultivates inner silence, which is the ground state of the cosmos and everything in it. So to say deep meditation is not grounding is not recognizing what it is about. On the other hand, in order to cultivate inner silence, purification and opening will occur in the nervous system. This process is stimulated by deep meditation, and may not feel very grounding, depending on the condition of the nervous system. It will depend on your constitution, history and other factors.
There is one easy way to find out if deep meditation will be helpful, and that is to try a light twice daily routine and see what happens. Only about 10 minutes of deep meditation per session starting out, morning and afternoon, after spinal breathing, which should also be light (5 min or so). See the AYP lessons for detailed instructions. If this aggravates the situation, then scale back. No harm done.
Yes, a heavier diet will help quell an overactive kundalini -- your choice on what to eat. An ayurveda vata and/or pitta pacifying diet can also help a kundalini excess. But it is not clear that this is an overactive kundalini, so there are unknowns. This is why it is good to know the long term history of practices (if any) and experiences.
Also check this FAQ for more on grounding: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2165
All the best!
The guru is in you.
Hello Yogani,
thankyou again very much from my heart.
My history of practices and experiences are as follows:
I started practicing approximately 12 years ago. I never knew for few years that there is also a painful side to kundalini yoga I thought it was all just peace. I started with Patanjali's pranayama (it is made of inner kumbka and outer kumbka), I used to recite Aum after holding my breathing with eyes closed. I did it for 3 years , I got strong mentally felt inner peace became a very hard worker, my grades went high, felt good also enjoyed a lot of sports at that time. I did not do anything for the next 3 years but all this time I always wanted to start the pranayama again. Then I shifted from India to Australasia. I got a 7-8 month break due to change of places, I started this time with pranayama again with Aum recitation, same patanjali pranayama, this time after 9 days i guess I saw a golden light circle, it felt good I didn't know what it was, the next days triangle, square etc after some time once in saw a monster with thorns of golden light a fear rose but went away in between sometime I also saw this image (i don't remember the color combination , I saw it two times with different color combination http://home.ximb.ac.in/~spicmacay/K...grartist.jpg) which made me so fearful that I was fearful of doing meditation I did not do it for 7-10 days, all in all during this period the peace, concentration and bliss increased I started doing meditation(reciting aum) also with pranayama started meditation 40 minutes in the morning and then added 40 minutes in evening too, seeing golden light every day in one or other form was happening every day, the bliss increased to a point that i really started hating it , so much bliss that i couldn't take, I was able to draw with a golden light any(like a pencil) anything I want in the dark space with my eyes closed, I was also able to capture like a camera anything in my eyes and play with it with the eyes closed, also I felt there was some kind of cap on my head that is pouring some liquid in my head which is giving me immense pleasure, became fearless and then what started was golden circle coming out of my eye one by one, firstly only during the meditation and then all day and night , anytime I closed my eyes a golden circle one by wud be there coming out of a place in between my eyebrows, it made me really uncomfortable as I was not able to sleep. What I did was stopped meditation and pranayama and after few days the golden circles went away. After one year or so I started meditation again with a different pranayama, I did meditation everyday sometimes accompanied by pranayama and I was not able to achieve much concentration (as I thought concentration is what we have to achieve, just couple of times I achieved temporary heights of concentration only couple of times where I saw the coil made of golden light and lot of peace and bliss very temporary) other than that most of times I was emotionally quite unstable , I also did during this time siddhasana and mulabanda then I started doing shanmukhi kumbhak (closing eyes,ears,mouth,lips with both hand's fingers and doing inner kumbka) morning and evening I did it for 1 year or so and what started happening after that there was immense heat in my body and it went so high that I have to stop the pranayama (this was the time when actually started receiving wrong advice, the heat continued I remember now that in the morning my face was also swelled. Then after few months my body started holding water swelling in my feet and I didn't care I thought it was not the water but my haemoglobin is falling down. In the vacations I went to India and there the problem increased the swelling in my legs increased and I had to see a doctor and there we decided as allopathy treatment required steriods so we decided to go for ayurvedic treatment, I came back to Australasia and here my condition worsened but I had a faith in my mind that things would get better and I woke up one morning and my whole body just froze at place I was not able to move and was in immense pain which was followed by excessive itching (much later when I landed in hospital doctor confirmed it was a stroke) and things got so bad I was not able to walk, was unable to talk altogether more than 40 minutes in a day, was not able to take a bath for many weeks, only someone from my family would take me and give me a bath when I wanted to, things got so terrible that I would not believe so much pain could happen to someone and I was not able to digest anything all this time and gotten very weak then after 6 months there was a brain haemorrhage I lost conciousness ambulance was called, then there after regaining conciousness they put me on steriod treatment cortisols (I had in my body around 50 kgs of excessive water), after starting the treatment my digestion got fine for sometime digestion was so fast that I would eat everything so much and so fast, everything I ate was being digested as I ate, I would literally cry and pray to God sometimes to slow down my digestion as if I did not eat anything my stomach would start aching, after it for sometime I use to get cramps on my hands and feet), the cortisol steriod treatment went on for around 1.5 years (during this time most of the time I was very fearful, all my fears were shown in my dreams my mind was full of crap discussions, my every thought was answered in my dream it was really a hell and still is to though lesser than before). Its been 2-3 months I left cortisol steriods And I am still on few medications and my body is weak still.
(I also want to state here that anything I saw in meditation was not imagination, it was all seen very clearly in the darkness that one sees when one closes eyes)
(As I got sick and till now my nightlife/ dream life is quite crappy, lot of vibrations at night time always felt like caused by negative entities as it also accompanies their conversations and threats, lot of illusions which I didn't recognize that they were illusions till sometime back, I woke up every morning with a kind of lethargy in my body, sleep paralysis, wrong advices, the time before sleeping and after awakening lot of voices, sometimes abusing, sometimes saying this or that which I don't really care , but would like to shut those voices down)
I really don't know where I am but I personally think(I might be wrong though) that either I am at this place http://www.kahealani.com/spirit/fou...mension.html , which comes when manipura is cleared when one gets open to astral influences. I desparately want to go further than this place and I might be wrong I have heard that when awareness goes higher than this dimension than it is mainly bliss in the upper dimensions. Or I am just affected by lower astral entity/ies. In any case I just want to progress further.
I am stuck at this dimension, don't really know how to get out of it. I personally thought that doing meditation would raise one's vibrations and one would go to higher dimensions, I am actually scared as someone said to me that the only good thing to do at this stage is getting grounded as meditation is highly ungrounding someone can possess you at this stage or partial walkins and stuff. Thats why the person told me to eat chicken and heavy diet as he said only grounding can help me at this stage. I wanted to go to gym but I thought may be thats harmful for me spiritually at this stage?
I desparately want to progress further but have got no idea about what do I need to do to rise above this dimension or even if it just a lower astral entity influence I just to progress further in either case. What precautions should I take at this place. Are people right about possession can happen during meditation time (the main reason I am not doing meditation)? or is possession just merely getting influenced by their thoughts when you receive them or following the wrong advice by them.
I really want to meditate but scared that it might put me in further trouble . Can I meditate as much as I want? or what would be the best thing to do to progress further?
kindest regards from heart |
Edited by - arzkiyahai on Aug 14 2008 02:09:47 AM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2008 : 10:48:01 AM
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Hi Arzkiyahai:
Thank you for sharing your background. It sheds a lot of light.
Yours is a textbook case of premature kundalini (and crown) awakening taken to the extreme by unknowing excesses in practice, particularly long pranayama sessions and other practices using breath suspension (kumbhaka -- a powerful kundalini stimulator), leading to delayed reactions of too much energy flowing. It is common for euphoric experiences to turn unpleasant and unhealthy in cases like this where the practices that have caused them are taken to excess again and again. It is a massive overload.
Using Aum/OM as a stand alone mantra in meditation likely hasn't helped either. See here for comments on this from the AYP perspective. OM is utilized in a more balanced way in a mantra enhancement later on in the lessons.
It is hard to say whether this ongoing kundalini situation is behind all of your health problems, but it is likely that it is a major contributor. It is good that you have gone to doctors (you had no choice, right?). Now it is time to engage in a more prudent course from your side. It will take time, but the situation can be recovered.
For some orientation on what you are into, it is suggested to read these two books, if you have not already:
Kundalini - The Evolutionary Energy in Man, by Gopi Krishna
The Secrets of Wilder novel, an AYP book
From these two, you will see many parallels with your experience, and how the situation can be remedied in time, while restoring good spiritual progress. Of particular importance is the development of abiding inner silence, which, through the stabilizing power of the witness, enables us to weather the ups and downs we will encounter along our path.
Note to others reading along here: The extreme kind of experiences described here are not a prerequisite for spiritual progress, and will in fact delay it, due to the recovery time involved. The Secrets of Wilder novel explores excesses of this kind specifically so they can be resolved in the story through adjustments in practices and living habits, with the solutions then passed on so others are able to avoid the same excesses. It is a big part of what we are doing in AYP -- optimizing practices for maximum progress with minimum mishaps. Gopi Krishna went through his own adjustments over a long period of time, with far fewer knowledge resources available to him than we have today.
Arzkiyahai, it is interesting that this topic started off discussing the so-called "intermediate zone" of spiritual experiences, where practitioners (and gurus) become prone to infatuation and distorted views of their progress and condition. While some practitioners/gurus having ongoing divine experiences may slip into narcissism and declare themselves to be the avatar (incarnation of God) of the age, others with ongoing negative experiences (like yours) can edge into obsessive paranoia about being stuck in a dark realm full of malevolent entities who are working to destroy them. There are certainly plenty of people out there who will be happy to support either extreme view -- the avatar infatuation, or the dark forces paranoia. The truth is that neither one of these represent reality. Anyone who has focused on cultivating abiding inner silence will know this, because no such things exist within the light of pure consciousness. It is all in the labeling our mind engages in -- the objectivization of energy experiences by the mind.
Consider this: There is no "entity" (real or imagined) that could ever do as much damage to you as you have done to yourself through uninformed spiritual practices. The solution to the problem is not about managing dark forces, balancing chakras, or getting out of a place you think you are stuck in. What you have is a hellacious kundalini overload that you have been unknowingly feeding for 12 years, off and on.
So what’s next? Moderation in all things (especially spiritual practices), self-pacing, and favoring steadfast rational solutions over infatuations or obsessive paranoia and fear. Following the latter can lead much deeper into a labyrinth of mental confusion. The advice is to favor a sound course of action over the experiences that are coming up. If you can do that, much better times lie ahead.
Here are a few specific suggestions to consider:
1. Don't do intentional breath suspension (kumbhaka) in any practice until your health is fully recovered. That could be years from now. Don't do intentional mudras, bandhas or siddhasana for the same reason (energy stimulation). Maybe some very light sambhavi mudra, which can help stabilize an unruly kundalini. If it doesn't, don’t do it. If automatic kumbhaka or mudras/bandhas occur during meditation or at any other time, easily favor whatever practice or activity you are doing over them. In other words, don't intentionally favor any of these practices, even if they are occurring as automatic yoga.
2. Be moderate to light in all practices you undertake, and self-pace at the first sign of excess, including any ecstatic energy flowing. As you have found out, more can easily become less if we are not ready in our abiding inner silence. Self-pacing does not mean quitting practices. It means adjusting the durations of practices in ways that will minimize excesses in experience. Practices are the gas pedal. Experiences are your journey along the road. Manage the gas pedal so you will not drive off the road. You have been driving off the road a lot.
Always remember that there can be a delay between practices and their effects, so it is best to err on the side of caution, especially in your case. It is suggested to read everything you can find on self-pacing in the AYP lessons and forums. If you become an expert in self-pacing, you will greatly reduce your risk of repeating the problems of the past. Here is a starting point: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2139
3. Find your balance in twice daily practices. That is your balance, not what anyone else thinks it is, including me. It will be what you discover it is. It is important that you find a way to regularly cultivate inner silence, for the reasons mentioned previously. The advice still holds to try twice daily 5 min spinal breathing and 10 min deep meditation. It can be a starting point. If it is too much, do less. If less is too much, then shift to a few minutes of alternate nostril breathing with a few minutes of deep meditation right after. Find a balance in your practices that you can sustain twice daily indefinitely, even if it is only 5 minutes of total practice per session. This is very important, because your spiritual progress does not depend on what you do for three weeks and stop, and then three weeks later on and stop again. You have been through that on a grand scale, yes? Spiritual progress depends on what we can do in practices with stability every single day for the rest of our life. So it is imperative to find a balance that works for you, no matter how modest it may be. You will have the option to consider enhancements in daily practice over time, once you have established a stable routine. A balanced long term daily routine is the key. Before that, we are just flailing around in the wind, and always at risk.
4. Continue with grounding activities. Having an active life is very important to stabilize our inner silence and energies cultivated in practices each day, including healthy activity, exercise, social engagement, good company, good humor, etc. Along these lines, you may wish to add a very light set of asanas before pranayama and meditation (a few minutes of stretching), which help provide a smooth transition from activity to sitting practices. Likewise, make sure to take plenty of rest at the end of sitting practices, which aids a smooth transition from sitting practices to daily activity -- 5 minutes or more lying down at the end of practices is good. If there is roughness or irritability in activity, the first thing to check is our rest period at the end of practices. If you can find a balance between asanas, pranayama, deep meditation, rest, and healthy activity in daily living that you can sustain day in and day out for the long term, without overdoing, then you will be on the way to full recovery with good spiritual progress.
Wishing you all the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: This topic has been moved to the kundalini forum category, where it is a much better fit.
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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 03:44:34 AM
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thankyou very much Yogani. I should start working on balancing I guess.
thankyou again for all the precious information.
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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2008 : 11:12:00 PM
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| Thanks again Yogani. Hopefully will keep you guys posted and hopefully i wish i will stabilize. |
Edited by - arzkiyahai on Aug 18 2008 7:50:22 PM |
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How do I get out of this illusional zone?
