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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 01:34:59 AM
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Hi everyone. I'm new here. I've studied Chinese qigong and meditation for a few years and just added some of the AYP practices a few months ago to impressive results. I'm really grateful that all this information is being presented in such a clear, matter-of-fact way.
I have a couple of questions about achieving nauli for anyone who's willing to help: I can get a pretty good vacuum effect with uddiyana by sucking the diaphragm up, but in my attempts to then push the abdominals forward I'm not completely sure I'm on the right path. After a few weeks of practice I find I'm better at isolating the abdominals from the obliques (which are supposed to remain sucked in but relaxed throughout, right?), but tensing the abdominals to make them go down and out seems to be in opposition to keeping the diaphragm up. Or is it precisely this opposition which intensifies the effect?
Regardless, if I try to push the abdominals out further, it has a tendency to make the diaphragm come down and thereby release everything. If I try tensing the abdominals with the diaphragm still up as much as possible, I see some movement in the abdominals but they don't come nearly as far forward as they do in pictures and videos I've seen of nauli. They just kind of twitch a bit. Using the pressing on the knees I can make the very top of the abdominals seem to come out just a bit, but it's a bit of a strain. Is it that I need to keep up this pressure until that bit at the top extends all the way down or is this barking up the wrong tree? Like I said, it's a bit of a strain , albeit not a terrible one--but I also don't want to be applying a lot of pressure in a way that isn't actually getting me closer to nauli.
It's also a bit confusing because some online descriptions of nauli say to "keep the obliques tense while releasing the central abdominals" or "squeeze the abdominals to push out by tensing the obliques," which is almost opposite of other descriptions, including Yogani's, which seem to point more toward tensing the abdominals while keeping the obliques relaxed but sucked in. I'm inclined to trust Yogani on this point, of course, but I'm just wondering if my understanding of this is correct.
Anyway, any tips on achieving nauli or more detailed info on what exactly is/should be going on with the various muscles involved would be much appreciated. |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Jul 19 2008 01:36:03 AM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 05:00:12 AM
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| Don't push out with any abdominal pressure. The suction of uddiyana is kept the same but the the rectus are contracted while relaxing the obliques. Hope this helps |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 05:16:12 AM
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| Thanks for the info. Is the contraction of the rectus in any particular direction? I guess it's confusing because the various muscles of the abdomen seem to be able to flex in various ways (though maybe the rectus alone can only contract in the one way?) Is it a feeling like squeezing down or any particular direction? I feel like I am tensing the rectus, but it just doesn't poke out in the way I think of in nauli. Do I just need a stronger contraction or am I maybe still doing something wrong? Thanks again. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 5:28:54 PM
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Well to furtehr confuse the issue...
There is "straight" nauli which is the first way to learn, then tehre is left or right side nauli as well as a rolling nauli where you churn from left to right or vice versa. In order to learn I would just contract the very center muscles of the abdomen between the sternum and pubis and push only those muscles forward while pressing the hands on the thighs in a semi squatting standing position with knees slightly bent. It will take some practice but once you feel it you will see. Just remember not to increase abdominal pressure down as nauli is really a continuation and intensification of uddiyana. |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2008 : 11:10:50 PM
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| Okay, thanks again. I'm just trying to learn the "central" nauli right now. I haven't moved on to isolating the left or right or the actual churning yet. So pushing out the central band feels like a continuation of uddiyana? I guess it's still the seeming conflict between sucking the diaphragm up and pushing the abdominals down and out that confuses me. I guess the key is just in being able to tense the rectus strongly while simultaneously keeping the diaphragm strongly sucked upwards? |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2008 : 01:55:48 AM
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| yes, that is correct. Just have to get the feel for it. Its like riding a bicycle |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 12:15:01 AM
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| So, when you say it's like a continuation of uddiyana, do you mean it's like you keep sucking the diaphragm even further up and that naturally engages the rectus? Does the motion to cause the central band of muscles to stand out feel like it's moving in any direction or starting at the top or bottom? Or does it just happen all at once as a result of tensing the rectus while keeping the diaphragm sucked up? I'm still finding that trying to tense the rectus causes me to pull the diaphragm back down. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 02:50:26 AM
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| keep sucking the diaphragm farther up and engage the rectus. i think at this poit it won't help much to have further instructions but rather to play with it till you get the feel |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2008 : 04:43:11 AM
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| Okay, I'll keep trying. Thanks! |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2008 : 05:18:28 AM
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| Yes, I've looked at many videos and read many descriptions, but I still don't quite understand what I'm doing wrong. I suck the diaphragm quite far up and get a nice-looking vacuum effect, but when I try to tense my abdominals and/or push on the thighs to tense the abdominals, I only get a slight movement of the abs or obliques. I don't get the pushing out effect. Everything either stays relatively sucked in or else I release everything in the attempt to push one part or the other out. (Or I sit there with everything sucked in and my abs twitching slightly but not coming out). |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2008 : 04:02:28 AM
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| Small update: after practicing daily for a few more weeks I'm happy to be able to do both of the side naulis. I can get something of a rolling motion, but pushing out both simultaneously (the central band) is still a little hard. I'm sure I'll get it with more practice, though. In my case, I think the trick was in realizing that it wasn't that I need to push harder but rather to get more fine control of the muscles by being aware of the area as I attempted to do it. Anyway, thanks for the help. |
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Nauli Questions
