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noche
Colombia
16 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 8:37:32 PM
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about the toxins present in urine that you pour back in to the system so that it triggers further blood cleansin, you better used homeopathy principle. dont drink all the poison. in one of the links present -i guess in this discution- they say that urine has the essential aminoacids, how can this be if the only way that cells export aminoacids is as urea or as glutamate?
and urea is not produced (only) in the kidneys, is chemically sintetized in the mitocondrion of any cell. and well, even chocolate and electromagnetic waves kill neurons. just the passing of time kills cells...
in lak´ech |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 12:23:38 AM
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I am trying amaroli for about 2 weeks. Now I am taking about 10ml a day. I don't feel any noticeable benefits, so I won't increase my dosage. Although it could not do any harm, I too have some concerns about its effectiveness.
1. First of all, there are really no scientific proofs. No articles on peer-reviewed journals. The "hormesis" theory can, at best, provide a possible "explanation" when/if it works at all. But it does tell you whether amaroli works.
Think about this: will you take DDT in small amount on a regular basis (say every morning) simply because SOMETIMES the phenominon "hormesis" happens?
2. The nutritive values of a cup of urine could not be more than a cup of milk, except that urine may indeed contain some used hormones. So the "nutritive" explanation which many people used simply fail, unless they don't eat nutritive foods.
3.
So, what about hormesis???
Think about the mechanisms hormesis theory provides: taking some toxins that's ALREADY in our body. For one thing, it could not do too much harm because it's present in our body all the time without having to take it orally. For the other, it could not do us too much good either because of the same reasons.
OKOK, may be it works differently when you take it orally. But who know? In the final analysis, it's your subjective feeling, right? And subjective feelings are, unfortunately, not reliable. By our subjective feeling and placebo effects (which could turn out to be very real), even placebo can do us much good. This has been shown many times.
We are getting enough toxins everyday, already. Maybe the toxins in our urine work differently. I don't know.
By the way, while concentrating on a single practice may not be the "best" approach, we do need some people who did that to show us the effects of each single practice----- to avoid incorrectly attributing some effects (which may due to other practices) to practices, usually because the old text told us so!!! That's blind faith. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Jan 31 2006 06:42:06 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 11:15:36 PM
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You really can't reason out the spiritual practices we do. Science can't explain them because it doesn't recognize prana, or god for that matter.
Prana and the physical interact with each other but science doesn't recognize it yet. You won't find much spiritual practice in nature. Yogananda says animals don't have the ability for god consciousness, only man.
But definitely don't count on blind faith; test everything for yourself and make your own conclusions. This forum gives us a whole toolbox full of stuff we can try, or not. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 10:21:50 AM
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Alvin, thanks for taking a shot at this. It's good to try to reach a high standard of reasoning.
Alvin said:
>> I am trying amaroli for about 2 weeks. Now I am taking about 10ml a day. I don't feel any noticeable benefits, so I won't increase my dosage. Although it could not do any harm, I too have some concerns about its effectiveness.
Not everyone notices it. And indeed, we don't have any scientific knowledge of its range of effectiveness through different people.
Alvin said:
1. First of all, there are really no scientific proofs. No articles on peer-reviewed journals. The "hormesis" theory can, at best, provide a possible "explanation" when/if it works at all. But it does tell you whether amaroli works.
Absolutely true, but let's not think that all things that are good for us have articles in peer-reviewed journals validating them.
Alvin said:
Think about this: will you take DDT in small amount on a regular basis (say every morning) simply because SOMETIMES the phenominon "hormesis" happens?
No. Nor do I do amaroli merely because sometimes the phenomenon "hormesis" happens. Was there supposed to be some logical implication to your question? 
Alvin said:
2. The nutritive values of a cup of urine could not be more than a cup of milk, except that urine may indeed contain some used hormones. So the "nutritive" explanation which many people used simply fail, unless they don't eat nutritive foods.
Clever, but fallacious. You overlooked something. Let me explain your fallacy; it derives from a view of 'nutrition' which is overly simple.
Urine certainly contains many substances which are not in food. While it is true that food can ultimately be converted into these substances by the body, possibly with energetic 'losses', this does not mean that there cannot be benefit from receiving them directly, in a form that does not need to be converted.
Your reasoning is fallacious in the same way as it would be fallacious to say that a city which has access to a quarry cannot get energetic benefit from ready-made bricks.
Alvin said:
For one thing, it could not do too much harm because it's present in our body all the time without having to take it orally. For the other, it could not do us too much good either because of the same reasons.
Very clever again, but fallacious again -- a mistaken assumption is contained in the underlined. Perhaps you assumed that for hormesis to work, the levels of toxin in the blood have to be higher than occur in normal fluctuations?
Did you realize that a sudden, 'unexpected' increase in the levels of these toxins could be what sets off the hormetic reaction? Urine is absorbed by the body in a few minutes. Perhaps that sets off a sudden jump in toxin levels (which are being 'watched' by the body by various mechanisms), and the body responds to this unexpected jump. The response could be due to the sudden jump in toxin levels even though actual toxin levels do not get out of normal range.
Alvin said:
In the final analysis, it's your subjective feeling, right? And subjective feelings are, unfortunately, not reliable. By our subjective feeling and placebo effects (which could turn out to be very real), even placebo can do us much good.
It is true that I can provide no scientific proof for you at this time of the effectiveness of amaroli. In fact, I don't even know if it would be effective for you. What I am very strongly convinced of is its effectiveness for me, because of what I felt. Regarding placebo, I know that what I felt was not placebo -- I have tried many things in my time and I know that this was too strong and definite to be a placebo effect. But you can't know that it was not a placebo effect in me. You don't have the view of my internal workings that I do.
From what I have experienced, along with my regard for the Yogis, and their ability to find stuff that works, I am very convinced of its effectiveness on the 'advanced yoga' path.
Regards,
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 01 2006 12:55:59 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 12:55:20 PM
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If you think I am trying to reason out amaroli, indeed my reasonings are fallacious. But that's not my aim here. Instead, I'm trying to warn against the kind of "reasonings" used by many yogis and some websites (I found most of them in the links of AYP), trying to convince the others that amaroli "should work" and "for good reasons".(while there are in fact no deep reasons, except believing in testimonials which you could find plenty in every websites of those "magical products" on improving your memory, enlarging your penis, etc) In those websites, the nutritive explanation is the main one, and a fallacious one because they simply say that urine is "nutritive".
Your explanation is of a different nature, David. It makes more sense than the simple-minded "nutritive" explanation. But is it then even better to take what's "nutritive" in our urine directly? For hormones, People have been taking DHEA, 5-HTP, human growth hormones, etc. Our body is not designed for such thing directly, just as it's not designed for drinking urine. But such hormones, even when articially made, are just as close to the usable form as what's present in urine.
Also, if no "special" reactions occur (such as hormesis), re-taking such as small amount of nutrients (small even if you take a full cup) are not likely to make a noticeable difference in a short time, as claimed by those who take amaroli. Of course there are exceptions---
Some very results have been reported by taking DHEA (and to a lesser extent 5-HTP and HGH), though not everyone got the benefits. Those who are benefited are usually those who are aged, when their natural levels of these hormones are very low. That make sense---only then can you expect a noticeable difference by taking just 25 or 50mg DHEA a day. In their case, 50mg a day can be a huge proportion of their body production of these hormones.
So may be amaroli is simply not (yet) suitable for me considering my age and health conditions? (rather than beneficial but not noticeable)
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Collective wisdom is usually correct, but not always. Look at "The Photoreading Whole Mind System"--- what it claims are simply incredible. And many people report that it "works". But indeed it doesn't-----except that it really makes people wrongly think that the content of the book really goes into their brain.
Not long ago, this "photoreading" stuff is still quite heat. It survives quite well.
Of course I have a higher regard for yogis. But still I prefer to be more careful and conservative in my judgement. You never know when a yogi is exaggerating. Do you think you can really become young again and even conquer death by doing headstand, doing pranayama, etc? When should those texts not be interpreted literally? Simple---when they are obviously wrong. But you will have a hard time when things are possible but unlikely. That could be a topic worth discussing.
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I'm glad to see guys like you are having positive results from amaroli, David. That somehow increases its credibility. So allow me to ask you more about your experiences:
How long have you been taking amaroli? (I like guessing. Let me make a guess: about 1-2 years, long after you TM practice)
What precisely are the benefits you get? The more "objective" the descriptions the better. (e.g. stamina in terms of the number of miles you can run in 1 hour is much better "improved stamina")
When you start amaroli, did you start some other practices at more or less the same time?
Did you try experimenting the results by stopping amaroli for some days until the effects fade away? If yes, how many times have you done? And can you describe your findings?
I guess you're above 50, unless you start really early in yoga. Did you ask your son or someone younger to try that? And what's the result? |
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noche
Colombia
16 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 8:22:04 PM
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someone told me that a very efective cleansing technique was: just after waking (early)
squirt less than a small spoon of amaroli under the tongue, then thru both nostrils, then one tear of amaroli in each ear channel. And with the resultant either drink it or if have more congestion problems do neti. after it do an aenema of a litre of coffee at baby temperature and retain for as long as confortable ¿? say 10 minutes, then with a litre of water at the same temerature. After that, take a bath an istead of soap, lather salt all over your body doing round massagges at your principal joints.
in lak´ech |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 10:00:33 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
P.S. I intend to answer Frank's question when I get the chance. Feel free to remind me later.
Hello David, if you get a chance, can you address the benefits and the measurable effects of this procedure? thx a bunch.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 10:26:35 AM
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Yes.
>> and the measurable effects of this [amaroli] procedure
I don't know to what extent these effects are objectively measurable, but they are certainly subjectively observable. The only objectively measurable one might have been the speed-of-healing from the frenum-snipping.
After I do amaroli, I feel my mind being both perked up, and naturally pulled inwards a little. In the beginning this was a very powerful effect, now it is more subtle, since the strength I gained from regular amaroli is now a background condition. (This happens to me after a good asana too, by the way, particularly forward bend sustained for a while). This helps the meditation.
This perked-upness and vigor lasts through the day. Right now I don't notice much more than that from a particular dose.
But I can tell what I noticed in the weeks after starting it.
The best way of describing it is something I heard from Yogani, something like, it can help fill in some weak spaces in the psyche. This is exactly what I felt. It was as if some background trembling in my psyche ceased -- some very subtle nervous little yappy-dogs grew bigger, stronger, and kept quiet.
I also noticed myself having a perkier mood and being less physically tired. One way I noticed that was I was not so much desiring to sit down in situations where I felt like sitting before. I just stood.
My immune system and healing processes seemed to be stronger and faster. (I noticed this in particular from the healing of cuts from frenum-snipping. )
Hope that helps Frank.
Regards,
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 02 2006 10:53:16 AM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 8:00:55 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
After I do amaroli, I feel my mind being both perked up, and naturally pulled inwards a little.
This perked-upness and vigor lasts through the day. Right now I don't notice much more than that from a particular dose.
-D
Hello David, thx for taking the time to outline your experiences...let me poke around a bit if I may.
Do find the same results no matter what food-stuffs you injest?
IF so, any comments? and what of the night after you have eaten asparagus? ((( ))) what then? And any comment on amaroli from the supply of cows?
If you find time....thx
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 10:27:31 AM
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Frank said:
Do find the same results no matter what food-stuffs you injest?
IF so, any comments? and what of the night after you have eaten asparagus? ((())) what then? And any comment on amaroli from the supply of cows?
If you find time....thx
It's definitely better when I eat better. Even the taste is better. Fresh vegetables are good. I think that Broccoli Rabe and Turmeric in particular both create nice fresh urine that is very invigorating. This though is just at 'impression' level.
>> and what of the night after you have eaten asparagus?
It's fine with me. It just adds a smell.
I have never tried cow's urine, and I probably won't. I don't find myself moooooved towards that.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 03 2006 5:09:46 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 11:58:19 AM
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Hello Alvin,
>> Instead, I'm trying to warn against the kind of "reasonings" used by many yogis and some websites (I found most of them in the links of AYP), trying to convince the others that amaroli "should work" and "for good reasons".
I understand. One of the things I am trying to do is point out that the positive effects of amaroli plausible.
The human body is so complex that it is very easy to make, shall we say, an 'fallacious implausibility error'. That is, it is very easy to reason that something is implausible, and be wrong in that. The mechanisms can be more complex than expected.
And of course, plausible does not mean true. But plausible is important!
So we use our best judgement.
So may be amaroli is simply not (yet) suitable for me considering my age and health conditions? (rather than beneficial but not noticeable)
I simply don't know. There are certainly many ways the body tends to be more balanced in its earlier years and needs less help. But I haven't a clue about the answer to your question.
>> Collective wisdom is usually correct, but not always.
Definitely. As I was saying recently, the yoga tradition tends to generally hold that 'garlic and mushrooms are bad', which I think is a mistake. But by in large what yoga prescribes has a benefit.
>> Of course I have a higher regard for yogis. But still I prefer to be more careful and conservative in my judgement. You never know when a yogi is exaggerating.
Yes. What you see can neither prove to you that amaroli works for anyone, never mind for you in particular, but at the same time what you see cannot prove that it does not. By all means use your judgement on the matter. By all means, remain unconvinced if that seems right to you.
Is it possible that you don't want it to be true? Even if you believe it to be true, you should feel free not to do it if you don't want to.
In my answer to Frank, I've answered most of your questions except
>> How long have you been taking amaroli? (I like guessing. Let me make a guess: about 1-2 years, long after you TM practice)
Good guess -- for about a year I think.
>> When you start amaroli, did you start some other practices at more or less the same time?
No. I was careful not to, in order to evaluate amaroli by itself.
>> Did you try experimenting the results by stopping amaroli for some days until the effects fade away? If yes, how many times have you done? And can you describe your findings?
No. I'll consider trying that, and telling you what I find.
>> I guess you're above 50, unless you start really early in yoga. Did you ask your son or someone younger to try that? And what's the result?
I'm only 40. I haven't convinced anyone younger about amaroli. Amaroli is not something I suggest (currently) to non-yogis or even tell them about. There are some things one is not at all ashamed of but keeps quiet about. Like the guy who hides his Harry Potter novels under his pornographic magazines. (I don't read Harry Potter, BTW! Not that I'd be ashamed of it if I did....).
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 03 2006 12:40:49 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 12:54:38 PM
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David you said further up the thread:
After I do amaroli, I feel my mind being both perked up, and naturally pulled inwards a little.
This may be boloney, but it's a thought I've had for a while.
The bladder would be in the region of the first and second chakra, so fluid taken from this area and ingested to the stomack, which would be at the third chakra, might give the effect your describing above.
Reasoning:
If our first chakra is charged and particularly if tantra is being practiced and the seed is not being released then is stands to reason that the urine will also be highly charged.
The third chakra according to many traditions is the chakra of the mind and so charged urine from the first chakra being ingested to the third might give the mind a boost as the frequency of vibration of the prana would be changed when it arrives in the stomack.
This is not to ignore the other possible benefits but it might be another aspect to the equation.
Actually just thought of something else - the yellow juice is also the colour of the third chakra!
Taste that sparkle
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 5:50:58 PM
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also has a striking resemblance to beer
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 7:48:50 PM
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Hari OM
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by David_obsidian
Hello Alvin,
The human body is so complex that it is very easy to make, shall we say, an 'fallacious implausibility error'. That is, it is very easy to reason that something is implausible, and be wrong in that. The mechanisms can be more complex than expected.
David, this is a great observation as it passes my common sense test.
We are complex beings , and on the level of subjective experience it's difficult ( for me) to pin point the cause and effect... that's why I think there is correlation and judgment, and narrowing down of the implied action that gave a wonderful result!!!
We( that would be me) use vitamins, herbs, spices, ghee, etc and meditate there are so many stimuli. It's difficult for me to quarantine any one item to say "ahhh ha! you are the granter of this experience" - Add in my thoughts and orientation on Jyotish and I got lots of stuff as influencers!
Hence my question to you that you were kind enough to address on the practice of amaroli and it's measurable results...so one does not mix-up the benefits of stimulus A, with Stimulus B.
I have a great appreciation for Krsna's words - 'you have freedom over action alone, never over its fruits'
Thanks again, there's a nugget of wisdom here.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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kdhanraj
4 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2006 : 12:34:43 AM
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Hi all,
Nice to read all posts, so far enough was mentioned about positive results of amaroli, has any one experienced any negative results. It will be interesting to know. Then, one will have both pros and cons to decide whether to practise or not.
Dhanraj |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2006 : 5:15:00 PM
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Hello Dhanraj,
the only negative effects I personally observed have been transitional, as I got used to the practice. This was headaches in the early days and a slight feverish feeling. You easily deal with these by going down to a smaller dose, and working up gradually. These effects have completely vanished.
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2006 : 5:51:35 PM
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| Amaroli seemed to have less of an energetic feel the day after my vasectomy. might be just temprorary or might mean something. too soon to tell. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2006 : 03:48:34 AM
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David, I look forward to your further experiments. I pick the practice up again for a few days. But still hard to tell the effects. I have a brain fog (which I used to have, but is rare now), in the afternoon for two consecutive days, but there are other factors like sex, foods.
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gkrheera
India
20 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 04:12:05 AM
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Hi
I have been practicing amaroli for the last 2 years. I drink only the morning mid-stream. I have been at the peak of my health during this time and have never had a need to take any medicine.Before this I was a person who took ill quite easily and cold/cough troubled me a lot during change of season.
One observation which might be of interest is that I do fall sick but only for a day. To explain further lets say my wife and other members of the famliy have flu, I get it for a day in a very mild but noticeable form. But it is gone by that evening or at best next day morning without taking any medicines. I am attributing it to amaroli coz before this I never had a cold or flu which lasted less than a week.
Due to my profession I travel across the world frequently which used to make me sick often, due to drastic changes in climate (tropical India to a Canadian winter for eg.)But now I never have faced this problem.I know this is no "objective analysis" but am hoping may motivate those willing to try.
regards
Heera |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 08:47:25 AM
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hi Heera, I am interested to know more. How much do you take? And how much did you start with? Any (initial) side effects?
I started for around 1 month, but on and off. I started with a few drops, or at most 5ml. Because there is no effects at all in the first week or so, I increased the dosage to 20ml or so after stopping for 2 weeks. But I suspect that my brain fog is really due to that--the brain fog disappear today, the day I stop amaroli once again to experiment. Still too soon to tell, though. And may be I take too much....
Alvin |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 12:23:40 PM
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| Alvin, I doubt very much that your brain fog is due to 20ml of Amaroli. I take 250 ml every morning with no brain fog |
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gkrheera
India
20 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 9:35:40 PM
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Alvin;
I take only the early morning stream i.e as soon as I wake up. My ritual is as under:
1.I get up from bed and wash my mouth with water thoroughly
2.I catch the urine mid stream (leave the intial flow of 3 secs and the last flow of about 3 secs)
3.Drink the entire volume I have collected
This is followed by drinking 2 glasses of water and other activities of the day. In case my food in take the previous day has been bad (eg. very spicy or oily food) then I my bowel movement is 2-3 times in the morning with free motion. I have observed that this makes me feel good like some kind of purging has happened.
I have also used urine for acne and moderate eye infections in the family. In fact my observation of one day sickness was true with eye infection too. My wife had eye infection for about a week. As it was contagious I caught it after about 3 days, but for me it lasted only for a day in a very moderate form.
During this time I was treating my wife's eye with my urine and she observed that the pain in the eyes had instant relief once the urine drops were put in her eye. This was of great use as we were camping in a remote area at that time.
I have not missed a single day of drinking for the last 24 months.
Heera |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2006 : 10:12:45 PM
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Hi Heera:
Make me one promise please> If we ever go camping together and I wake up with an eye infection, please don't pee in my eye. You must have a very loving wife.
sweet dreams
Guy |
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gkrheera
India
20 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 6:48:02 PM
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Here's a celebrity endorsement for amaroli (not that it requires one). Former Indian Prime Minister Morarji Desai practiced and openly advocated amaroli all his life. He lived till 100. Also amaroli is still actively practiced in India in regions like gujarat. The practice finds mention in yogic texts like Hathayogapradipadika and extensive explanation in damar tantra.
My point is that the practice is not new and has a long proven track record of spiritual and medical applications in India.
Enjoy :)
Heera
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2006 : 6:48:24 PM
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>> You must have a very loving wife.
Midstream urine is a very clean, sterile substance. Our strong aversion to it is irrational. The door-knobs you touch every day without wincing are far more germ-laden. His wife may just be rational (though I have no doubt she loves him too).
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 16 2006 6:48:54 PM |
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amaroli -- dosage and concentration
