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neli
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 05:54:19 AM
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Hello to all:
I've been in the Kundalini meditation for 10 years, but I was just aware last year, at the beginning it was painful, mostly my stomach, but now I'm ok.
What I wanted to know is if one has to make the union of Shakti and Shiva every day ? Cause days ago I felt the union with a lot of ecstasy, so profound, so beautiful, they fused together inside me, in a very blissful ecstasy. But I practice every day, 2 hours, and I haven't felt that again, do I have to feel the same every day ?
Ecstasy is one of the most frequent symptom that I have, mostly in the heart chakra, but I want to feel it in the crown chakra, but it's very lazy.
One more thing, I levitate, and that is something that scares me a little, cause is not my imagination, I have proved it meditating with a friend of mine, the floor begins to wave, like the sea, and that makes me "awake" of my meditation. Sometimes the chair where I am sat is inclined to one side, I try not to put attention to this, but sometimes is strong. Also things tremble, like objects near me, it can be doors, pictures, any object, and they last trembling minutes, I try not to put attention or listen, altough it is very strong, and I stand up to control it, and always at the third time it stops, I don't understand any of this, but I don't want to float to the ceiling, so maybe I need some advice on this. I can hear many things, but never put attention to this, altough sometimes I see future events on the world, but I don't know if that will be true, or it is just in my mind, mostly all my visions have became true. Sometimes I don't like the visions, but I cannot change them. I can see anything like if I were in a film.
I think I'm living in a "rapture" state, and I don't know if this is normal.
This rapture controls all my body, it has changed also my heart rhythm, cause it's not the same as before, and the doctor has no specific reason for the change, altough I never listen to doctors, cause I feel my body do not belongs to them, but to the energy of Shakti.
I love meditation, is like fuel to my body, I cannot live without it, I just wait till I am in meditation, once I stopped for 2 weeks cause I was on vacations, and I began to feel cramps on my legs, and that was awful, but just twice.
I would like some advice on how to control the levitation, and some other gifts, like the trembling of objects, (it can be also a table, or a lamp, anything)I do not pretend to stop my meditation, I can't.
Thanks so much for any advice in advance
kind regards
Neli |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 3:39:31 PM
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Hi Neli
Welcome to the forum
As I understand it, levitation is quite an advanced siddhi (power/gift). I'm sure you know this if you have been searching the internet etc.
I suppose, to be honest, when someone new comes in and says they levitate, I automatically ask myself the question - are they for real?
I hope you don't mind me saying this - just being honest
I would be interested in knowing more about the kind of kundalini meditation you have been practicing and how things developed over that time.
I'm sure you know that all these siddhis/gifts are regarded as scenary along the way. Nevertheless, the attitude here is that they can be enjoyed for what they are but one should not get hung up or attached to them.
You don't appear to be getting caught up with them, rather regarding them as a distraction, this is the recommendation here.
You appear to be looking for stability in your practice and perhaps the AYP practices can provide this for you.
You say you want your crown to open - well this can be dangerous as most of the kundalini disasters are connected with premature crown openings (as I understand).
Practicing the AYP method - if you were interested in this - has the action of opening the system in a controlled and gradual way. It avoids directly opening the crown but will open it indirectly in a gradual way untill such time when it opens naturally at the appropriate time.
Would be interested in how your practices affect your daily life, especially your interactions with people, family, friends etc.
This is the true test of the effectiveness of a practice.
I don't levitate myself so can't advise on that, other than it is just another siddhi - although an intriguing one |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 6:13:57 PM
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Hi Neli - Welcome to the forum. I'm interested in the fact that your Shiva/Shakti experience is mostly centered in the heart. That's my experience too, and, like you, I'm wondering why it's so centered there, and why it doesn't move to the crown. I haven't yet experienced any crown activity, but I find that lately I have a very strong desire for the energy to move in that direction.
Ecstasy is one of the most frequent symptom that I have, mostly in the heart chakra, but I want to feel it in the crown chakra, but it's very lazy.
I think your interpretation of the energy as 'lazy' should be questioned. The fact that the energy isn't moving in the places that you want it to may very well be a blessing. That's what I tell myself, anyway. A premature crown opening is a horrific experience, and you can read about it on this forum as well as in Gopi Krishna's account. The other thing I wanted to comment on was:
What I wanted to know is if one has to make the union of Shakti and Shiva every day ?
Here I think that it's a mistake to think that "you" are doing anything. :) You may think that you are responsible for the divine union that results in your experience of ecstasy, when in fact S&S are carrying on in another dimension, quite oblivious to your intervention. Let them carry on when & how they please, without getting in their way. Imagine trying to orchestrate 2 lovers who are in the throes of sexual ecstasy...the last thing they need is your help. :D The best thing you can do is to meditate and create the inner space for them to join.
Anyway, my words are as much to myself as to you: Don't worry about the crown chakra - it will open when it's ready, and hopefully for you (and me), not a minute sooner. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2008 : 7:25:15 PM
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Hi Neli, and welcome!
In the AYP approach, we cultivate inner silence (shiva) and ecstatic conductivity (kundalini/shakti) with a range of practices (see the main lessons). The merging of these two qualities within us occurs naturally, so we don't have to force the marriage. It does not have to be a certain way every day. We just do our practices and go out into normal daily activity, which stabilizes what we have cultivated in practices. It is a process of development with many ups and downs corresponding to our transformation. As inner silence and ecstatic conductivity are cultivated, the inner marriage will happen, and become a full time experience over time. The end result is abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love leading to unity, which is duality becoming non-duality, even while remaining dual. Or, put more simply, ongoing stillness in action ... we are That.
So we are cultivating the underlying conditions of union every day in our practices, and not too worried about the joining, or which chakra is doing what. It happens naturally by degrees. Like the changes you have experienced over the past ten years, the changes will continue over the next ten years, and so on. Nothing to do but keep going with effective practices, as I am sure you will.
Your symptoms of ecstasy are natural and beautiful, and appear to be stable, so that is good. As you may know, ecstasy results from a flow of inner energy, and is actually a symptom of the process of purification and opening occurring within us. Bliss is an inherent quality of inner silence and does not change, while ecstasy will refine over time as purification and opening advance. Eventually ecstasy and bliss become intimately intertwined, and that is the joining everywhere within and around us -- the emergence of stillness in action. It is also sometimes called divine radiance.
Speaking of radiance, the physical symptoms you are experiencing in and around you are also a reflection of ongoing purification and opening, and the ever-increasing outward radiation of divine energy. We all go through the process a little differently, and whatever happens is normal for us. If visible siddhis are occurring, this is a confirmation, but obviously not our destination. If the symptoms become too much, then the practice routine can be shortened a bit to pace the process, something you may not be inclined to do, given your strong devotion to your practice. Strong devotion is good, as long as it does not lead us into excesses we can't handle. Then we can end up going slower while recovering from overdoing. It is up to each practitioner to determine what is the best application of practices, while balancing progress with comfort and safety. In AYP, we call this self-pacing. It is as important for advanced practitioners as it is for beginners.
Regarding the levitation and things moving around in the room while you are meditating, if you don't wish to self-pace your practice, then consider taking physical measures to prevent distractions or accidents. In time it will all smooth out and you will have much more conscious control, and can prevent external phenomena from occurring at will. The same goes for causing energy surges in others. In time, we learn how to manage such things, just the way a child learns to walk without falling or knocking the furniture over. Until then, it is good to take measures to minimize the disruptions in our environment, and in others. For a few tips from the AYP perspective, see lesson 155.
Others have come here with similar symptoms over the past few years, and it is not so unusual. What is more notable and important is your strong devotion to your practice and your ability to regard all the hub-bub as a sideshow, which is all it is. So it bodes well for you, and for all the rest of us. Your enlightenment is our enlightenment, and vice versa. We're all in it together.
Speaking of that, another way to reduce random energy surges, bouncing off the walls and ceiling, etc., is to put the divine energy to good use during daily activity. Get out and ground it. Exercise is good. See lesson 69 for more pointers. Another good way to reduce wayward energies is to help others, not necessarily in miraculous ways, but through simple helping and service in whatever ways we may be inclined. There are opportunities for that all around us. This will lead to a more balanced flow that is beneficial for everyone, and enhance our own development in a balanced way also. See lesson 120.
As the Buddhists say: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."
Thanks much for sharing. Feel free to chime in anytime. Wishing you all the best on your path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2008 : 12:47:51 PM
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Louis said:
suppose, to be honest, when someone new comes in and says they levitate, I automatically ask myself the question - are they for real?
I have similar thoughts, but the possibilities don't divide simply into (i) They are truly levitating and (ii) they are deceiving us.
Much more likely in my mind is that the experience of actual levitation is an hallucination. Perhaps as time goes on we'll learn that there are certain kinds of hallucination that yogic experiences are inclined to produce, and levitation is one of them.
I had 'levitation experiences' a few times during meditation. But eventually I realized that at least some of the were just sort of dream-states that I was entering, and my contention is that all of them were.
I have proved it meditating with a friend of mine, the floor begins to wave,
VCRS are much more reliable, and now cheap. There are also webcams, which are both cheap an multi-purpose. A must faster ticket to overcoming any interest in m levitation may actually be to discover that it isn't happening after all.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2008 : 2:11:26 PM
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Neli, welcome to the forum. I appreciated your post very much!
I'm sorry I will not be able to help you with any suggestions on how to "control" the levitation. I do want to tell you, though, that you are not alone perceiving this as something disturbing rather than something to show off with. My ex had a friend, a quite normal woman living in a small town in Sweden, who didn't tell people in general of her siddhi - she found it disturbing to levitate now and then when she least expected and not having found any "control button" for it. |
Edited by - emc on Jun 07 2008 2:12:12 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2008 : 10:54:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
A must faster ticket to overcoming any interest in m levitation may actually be to discover that it isn't happening after all.
Except, of course, when it is. The only thing more deceiving than fabricating a levitation experience would be to convince oneself that it's not happening when it is. Sure, it's just a siddhi, and hasn't much practical or spiritual use. But stranger things have been recorded than levitation, so why not? :) |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 05:02:48 AM
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Hi Sparkle,
I don't feel that levitation is an advanced siddhi, but just another siddhi, and to be honest, I don't like it, it causes me distraction, and sometimes when strong, I have to stop meditation, cause I feel the floor waving.
I know that it's hard to believe, till it happens to us, but it's something I didn't ask for, it just happened, and don't know how to stop it.
It does not happens every day, but maybe once a week, but for me is distracting and disturbing, so I really want to get rid off it.
My interaction with family memebers is normal, but I have noticed that my son acts strange, hope I am not ineracting with his energy (unconsciously), I 'm afraid of a surge of the K energy on him, cause I don't know how to handle this, my sister told me once, that I had caused her cramps on her legs only by talking by phone with her, months back, and she is very afraid of the K energy.
I feel well with my meditations, altough I always like to be alone. It's like if I don't like to be near people, I mean crowded places.
Maybe cause I'm very sensitive to other's vibes, and it sometimes irritates me so much, especially the odor, I am almost intolerable to bad odors, it gets me crazy, mostly from people (that was one of the causes of my divorce) I don't know why am I so sensitive to "odors" but not with all people, just the people that have strong odors in their bodies.
The levitation phenomena happened gradually, at the beginning I felt the waves of the floor, and I thought they were the serpents of the earth, and it was funny, but then years went by, and the waves were strong, and my chair began to lay to one side by itself, I thought it was my mind, till I call a friend, and we meditated together, and she felt it also, maybe it's a state of the mind, but I felt my chair inclined also, and I don't stop the meditation with this symptoms, unless they are very strong.
I have learned to control fear, when I saw things tremble without a cause, I don't like to put attention to this, unless I feel threathened by the energy.
I don't know why people say that is dangerous to open the crown chakra, I think I haven't opened it yet, altough I feel movemements in that area.
I think my meditation is a mix between the jhanas and the k energy, sometimes I mix several types of meditations, but mostly the Bhajan, before I was in the Siddha Yoga (also the Hatha)
neli
[quote]Originally posted by Sparkle
Hi Neli
Welcome to the forum
As I understand it, levitation is quite an advanced siddhi (power/gift). I'm sure you know this if you have been searching the internet etc.
You say you want your crown to open - well this can be dangerous as most of the kundalini disasters are connected with premature crown openings (as I understand).
Practicing the AYP method - if you were interested in this - has the action of opening the system in a controlled and gradual way. It avoids directly opening the crown but will open it indirectly in a gradual way untill such time when it opens naturally at the appropriate time.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 05:19:04 AM
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Hi Meg,
I don't know why I feel it in the heart, but I don't like it, I want it to move on, and it do not wants to move, I want to move it to the Ajna chakra, I mean I feel sensations in this area also, but not the ecstasy, the ecstasies I always felt them in the heart chakra, I don't know why.
Do you know the symptoms of a prematural crown chakra opening ?
Thanks God that I don't have to make the union by myself, cause I think I was forcing them to couple, What a mistake I was committing!
I'm not hurrrying the energy to the crown, but I have begun to feel movement on this area, like crowlings, like if the energy wanted to uncover the top of my head, or a ball of energy moving just right there, but not opening yet.
neli |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 05:56:51 AM
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Hi Yogani
Thanks for the welcoming and for your advice.
I practice stillness and silence also, in my meditations, altough I combine them with mantras.
I would like to know what is the difference between ecstasy and bliss, cause I think they are the same, is it the energy that goes up and the other that goes down?
I feel bliss when Shiva comes down, to find her lover, and ecstasy when Shakti comes up to find the other, what I don't like is them joining in the middle (heart) many people have told me that this is the place that they meet, maybe it's normal, and I am wrong.
I don't put attention to the symptoms, unless they are strong, like the trembling of the objects, its like if the energy is defying me to be distracted, and I deny to put attention, although when the vision comes, I am very delightful, I can see the stars, and many wonders, but only for short moments.
How can I prevent distractions or accidents with physical measures ?
Maybe I have to self-pace, but its the energy that is calling me, urging me to do it, if not, I feel bad, with pains, or cramps, or irritated. Once I do it, I feel good, if not, I feel so irritated.
I'm afraid I can affect others with my energy, as my son behaves strange lately, like depressed, and he was not in that way before, then irritated and aggressive, altough he is a teen, he was very calm, but now is like aggressive, I was surprised that he asked me if he could meditate with me. That's very strange. maybe the energy is inside him and he doesn't know, not even myself.
I'll read more about the lessons your pointed.
Thanks so much
neli
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi Neli, and welcome!
In the AYP approach, we cultivate inner silence (shiva) and ecstatic conductivity (kundalini/shakti) with a range of practices (see the main lessons). The merging of these two qualities within us occurs naturally, so we don't have to force the marriage. It does not have to be a certain way every day. We just do our practices and go out into normal daily activity, which stabilizes what we have cultivated in practices. It is a process of development with many ups and downs corresponding to our transformation. As inner silence and ecstatic conductivity are cultivated, the inner marriage will happen, and become a full time experience over time. The end result is abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love leading to unity, which is duality becoming non-duality, even while remaining dual. Or, put more simply, ongoing stillness in action ... we are That.
So we are cultivating the underlying conditions of union every day in our practices, and not too worried about the joining, or which chakra is doing what. It happens naturally by degrees. Like the changes you have experienced over the past ten years, the changes will continue over the next ten years, and so on. Nothing to do but keep going with effective practices, as I am sure you will.
Your symptoms of ecstasy are natural and beautiful, and appear to be stable, so that is good. As you may know, ecstasy results from a flow of inner energy, and is actually a symptom of the process of purification and opening occurring within us. Bliss is an inherent quality of inner silence and does not change, while ecstasy will refine over time as purification and opening advance. Eventually ecstasy and bliss become intimately intertwined, and that is the joining everywhere within and around us -- the emergence of stillness in action. It is also sometimes called divine radiance.
Speaking of radiance, the physical symptoms you are experiencing in and around you are also a reflection of ongoing purification and opening, and the ever-increasing outward radiation of divine energy. We all go through the process a little differently, and whatever happens is normal for us. If visible siddhis are occurring, this is a confirmation, but obviously not our destination. If the symptoms become too much, then the practice routine can be shortened a bit to pace the process, something you may not be inclined to do, given your strong devotion to your practice. Strong devotion is good, as long as it does not lead us into excesses we can't handle. Then we can end up going slower while recovering from overdoing. It is up to each practitioner to determine what is the best application of practices, while balancing progress with comfort and safety. In AYP, we call this self-pacing. It is as important for advanced practitioners as it is for beginners.
Regarding the levitation and things moving around in the room while you are meditating, if you don't wish to self-pace your practice, then consider taking physical measures to prevent distractions or accidents. In time it will all smooth out and you will have much more conscious control, and can prevent external phenomena from occurring at will. The same goes for causing energy surges in others. In time, we learn how to manage such things, just the way a child learns to walk without falling or knocking the furniture over. Until then, it is good to take measures to minimize the disruptions in our environment, and in others. For a few tips from the AYP perspective, see lesson 155.
Others have come here with similar symptoms over the past few years, and it is not so unusual. What is more notable and important is your strong devotion to your practice and your ability to regard all the hub-bub as a sideshow, which is all it is. So it bodes well for you, and for all the rest of us. Your enlightenment is our enlightenment, and vice versa. We're all in it together.
Speaking of that, another way to reduce random energy surges, bouncing off the walls and ceiling, etc., is to put the divine energy to good use during daily activity. Get out and ground it. Exercise is good. See lesson 69 for more pointers. Another good way to reduce wayward energies is to help others, not necessarily in miraculous ways, but through simple helping and service in whatever ways we may be inclined. There are opportunities for that all around us. This will lead to a more balanced flow that is beneficial for everyone, and enhance our own development in a balanced way also. See lesson 120.
As the Buddhists say: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."
Thanks much for sharing. Feel free to chime in anytime. Wishing you all the best on your path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 06:19:57 AM
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Hi EMC
I know Sweden very well, I call this country the Shaman's Path.
At the beginning it was funny to feel the waving of the floor, but once, it was very strong and jerking, so I was upset, then I began to feel my chair inclined to one side, so I hated this "gift" I have learned to live with it, and the less attention we put, the symptom fades away the soon. So I try not to put attention, but when is very strong, I stop immediately the meditation, I don't want to see myself floating in the air, I have seen things trembling, not only me, but friends of mine, even my son, and they are afraid, thinking about ghosts, and I don't believe in ghosts, ha ha ha, but people does.
I try not to distract with anything, unless sometimes is impossible!
I also meditate with lights off, cause the light distracts me, and that makes me not to see what is happening, cause sometimes I hear steps of little beings, like fairies, or something like that, and I don't believe in that, but I don't want to see them in my room while meditating, cause people say, that it is only in the mind, but when I invite friends, they run away very scared, just to hear what they hear, maybe I'm producing the sound effect to the outside, but what about the little people??? is it also my mind??
neli
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 3:03:59 PM
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Meg said:
But stranger things have been recorded than levitation, so why not? :)
Meg, it depends on what you mean by strange, and what you mean by recording, and on how reliable the recording is. There are no recordings of levitation that are considered reliable. Video recordings pick up all sorts of things nowadays. Levitation isn't one of them.
Except, of course, when it is. The only thing more deceiving than fabricating a levitation experience would be to convince oneself that it's not happening when it is.
Nothing I am suggesting makes it likely at all that she will convince herself that something that is true is not -- quite the opposite, I am suggesting that she pushes her determination process into greater sophistication, not less.
Sure, it's just a siddhi, and hasn't much practical or spiritual use.
The popular milieu at AYP, and in the current 'advanced yoga' culture in general, is a little 'schizophrenic' in some respects regarding miracle phenomena -- we're all supposed to believe they are unimportant, and that we aren't supposed to be attached to them, and yet people are attached to them in ways they are not conscious of -- and I think that that may include people who are in very high places in the social stratum of the forum and whose words carry a lot of weight. The way this comes out is that alternative -- and I would say more accurate and sophisticated -- explanations of what is happening are discouraged in ways both gross and subtle. You may notice that Neli has acknowledged every post that responded to her on this matter, except my one, the only one suggesting that a more sophisticated determination of what is actually happening is worthwhile. That's not necessarily a pointed omission on her part of course, but it's par for the course not to be encouraged in any way for giving that kind of help. No thanks is ever likely for that kind of help, and that's why I don't post any such thing hoping for any thanks.
My contention is this: if Neli places a video-recording device to record what is happening as she meditates, she will notice some things when she looks at the recording. Firstly, she will notice that the ground is not waving after all -- that it was purely subjective to 'feel' it to be waving. Similarly, she will find that things have not been moving around, unless some things rattling a little due to the wind or other explanations. And most importantly, she will find that she has not risen seven inches off the floor.
For sure she may find that certain unconscious bodily phenomena have occured, such as a leaning and other things that have affected the chair. But these, while unconscious, and not necessarily easy to control, are perfectly ordinary and natural.
If a person thinks they are levitating, the discovery that they are not levitating after all is going to reduce any distress they have about it. It will also reduce the level of fascination, both acknowledged and unacknlowledged, that they have about it and that others on the forum have about it.
In short, the video recording can create a healthy, effective and reliable clarification of what is happening.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 08 2008 10:02:44 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 4:33:50 PM
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All good points, David.
Before I started having energy experiences, I thought people who talked about kundalini and chakras were doing so for attention, simply b'c it wasn't in the realm of my own experience. Then when I began to have these weird, inexplicable sensations and eventually figured out that it was kundalini, I became a believer. I'm sure there are those who doubt my experience, and for this reason I mostly keep it to myself, except of course here on the forum.
I assume that you're implying that Neli is either fabricating or imagining her levitation experience. I'm wondering if you suddenly began to rattle & roll during your meditations, would she be more credible to you? I'll admit that I have my doubts too, but am willing to suspend my disbelief out of respect for her and the possibility that she's telling the truth. I agree with you that it would be an interesting experiment to have her record her meditations so that others could see her levitating, although in my experience even if she was to do that and put it on YouTube, she'd be accused (not necessarily by you) of grandiosity and self-promotion. I for one don't envy her in this, as there are undoubtedly few who can help her.
Anyway, I only mean this discussion in the kindest sense. While I appreciate the scientific approach that you & Alvin & others embrace, and while it provides the necessary balance to a forum which could easily go soft & fluffy, I also think it's sometimes appropriate to suspend one's disbelief in the off chance that someone may be authentically experiencing something truly out of the ordinary. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2008 : 5:24:52 PM
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Thanks for your response, Meg.
Meg said:
I'm wondering if you suddenly began to rattle & roll during your meditations, would she be more credible to you?
I think you might have missed the bit up there where I said that I have had 'levitation experiences' that I myself figured out were hallucinations, or maybe I should say, illusions.
I might still be believing now that I had levitated, if I did not have the benefit of certain things: if I had been born in another era or culture, and didn't have the benefit of the rational/scientific education I received; or if I didn't have a rationally enquiring mind to begin with; or maybe if I were more attached believing that I was actually levitating, and didn't have strong cognitive-emotional independence.
Maybe I'd have developed a messiah complex and formed a cult... um, I mean a spiritual movement, the kind with a guy with a messiah complex on the top. And promised other people the eventual ability to levitate, and used it as a hook to build my movement.
No I do NOT think Neli is telling lies; if I hadn't myself discovered that I wasn't levitating after all, I would be honest if I said I had levitated -- honest but wrong. I just think she is mistaken in a way that it is very easy to be mistaken -- after all, I was mistaken that way myself for a time (though it was short).
Before I started having energy experiences, I thought people who talked about kundalini and chakras were doing so for attention,
There are two different things, (i) the subjective energy experiences themselves and (ii) the claims about what is accompanying them in the physical world. The very nature of illusions is that they make you think that something is happening that isn't.
I have come to believe that characteristic illusions accompany real yogic phenomena. You may feel hot, but your temperature has not risen. You may feel light, but you weigh the same as you ever did. And the illusions can get more powerful than that. You may even be hallucinating, and think you are levitating when you are not levitating.
I also think it's sometimes appropriate to suspend one's disbelief in the off chance that someone may be authentically experiencing something truly out of the ordinary
Well, cultures must evolve. Perhaps Alvin and I and others are on the fringe because we have arrived somewhere where the culture is going but has not yet gone. This could be the core of it:
Yogic phenomena produce characteristic illusions. The historical yogic culture has not understood that they are illusions and will not help you understand it. Sidestep many, many pitfalls by understanding this.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 08 2008 9:59:27 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2008 : 1:21:55 PM
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Hi Neli
Regarding the premature crown openings see here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2124
Would it be true to say that you are bringing Shakti(kundalini) up through your body and bringing Shiva down?
Just wonder about this because bringing Shiva energy down can have a cooling effect on the K. It can subdue it and prevent it from travelling up - in my experience. it really depends how powerful your Shiva energy is.
A general feeling I have - see if it fits.
You may be bringing up a lot of K and bringing down a lot of Shiva energy, they both meet at the heart. It would appear to me though, that you may be overdoing this, but you are not experiencing the debilitating overdoing effects because you are not allowing the K to rise much above your heart. There appears to be a lot of transformation going on in your heart.
My feeling is that you may need to re-evaluate your whole meditation programme.
To do this you would need to look at what would happen if you allowed the K to continue its purification to the brow (not the crown). This would require a tentitive trial and error approach taking Self-pacing very seriously.
In order to allow the K to rise further you may need to back off bringing the Shiva energy down - but you always have this as a standby in case you need to cool things down.
These are some thoughts I'm throwing out - if they fit you will probably know
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 10:49:21 AM
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Hi Neli,
Sounds like things are happening for you! Concerning the levitation, it sounds to me more like telekenesis rather than levetation. If you were levitating, you would expect to rise off the chair, leaving it on the ground rather than causing it to move.
When Yogani talks about taking physical measures to prevent damage, I beleive he is talking about putting cushions and the like around the room so that if you come down fast, it won't be so painful. There is a lesson on levitation in the main lessons section, and it has been discussed here in the forum. Just run a search under the word levitation.
About the heart, it is good if the energies expand and become stable in the heart first. Later, when they are ready, they will move up to the crown and the third eye. Then, after that, they will move back down to the heart again but in a different way. Hopefully things will be more stable for you by then.
Do be carefull about your children. I make sure that I sleep in a different room from my kids so that my energies have less effect on them. Kids are quite resiliant though, so I am sure they will be O.K.
Welcome to the forum.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Jun 16 2008 10:50:04 AM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 03:22:28 AM
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Hi Sparkle:
I have brought Shiva down, but just a couple of times: It's like if the Shiva energy its kind of (very) lazy. I mostly feel the Shakti energy flowing up.
I may be experiencing the debilitating overdoing effects as you said, but the energy works alone, I want it to flow it up and it stops in the middle (heart)maybe its working in some blockage. I have felt the energy flowing up to the crown, and I have felt also like some sensation of tingling on the top of my head, but it is very sweet, is not strong.
I also have felt tingling on the third chakra, but its very sweet, maybe that is the normal way, and I am thinking that it has to be stronger.
You're right maybe I need to re-evaluate the meditation, cause I'm entering also in the "nimittas" of the Jhanas, and this distracts me a lot. I mix the K energy with the Jhanas, alhough I know that they are very different, but I think they can complement one each other.
I think Jhanas can make more sweet the flow of the K, cause if I only do jhanas, the K energy flows alone and goes up, without my permission or attention, it goes alone and it stops alone.
neli
[quote]Originally posted by Sparkle
Hi Neli
Regarding the premature crown openings see here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2124
Would it be true to say that you are bringing Shakti(kundalini) up through your body and bringing Shiva down?
Just wonder about this because bringing Shiva energy down can have a cooling effect on the K. It can subdue it and prevent it from travelling up - in my experience. it really depends how powerful your Shiva energy is.
My feeling is that you may need to re-evaluate your whole meditation programme.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 03:44:38 AM
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Hi Christi,
I don't know if this is telekinesis, cause I have felt the heavy chair leanning to one side, at the beginning I thought it was my imagination, but when I meditated with a friend, she felt me up, a few inches, and I felt the air passing below my feet, we were meditating with hands grasped, to notice if it was true.
When this happens I feel the floor waving, not the chair leanning, and when the chair leans to one side, I'm not levitating, it just moves, I don't know why, maybe telekinesis is a symptom of the K energy, I have seen the objects trembling, at the beginning I thought it was my imagination, but once it was so strong that I was out of the meditation, and the object was moving without stopping, and I got scared, very scared, but I could control the phenomena, cause I knew it was my mind force flowing outside. (but I really don't know if this is true)
I have read about levitation phenomena, in different areas, even mediums like " Douglas Home" floating in the ceiling, while in trance, but I'm not in trance when this happens, I'm very aware.
It seems to me that the symptoms are moving into the "Nimittas" or lights, and this is very beautiful, I'm beginning with the "shy" nimittas, I think that all of these symptoms are produced by the mind, but in my case, they are produced outside my mind, not inside.
My son sleeps in a different room, but next to mine, and I'm afraid that the energy flow can reach him, cause he is very irritated since I began with the K meditations.
Thanks for the welcoming.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Neli,
Sounds like things are happening for you! Concerning the levitation, it sounds to me more like telekenesis rather than levetation. If you were levitating, you would expect to rise off the chair, leaving it on the ground rather than causing it to move.
When Yogani talks about taking physical measures to prevent damage, I beleive he is talking about putting cushions and the like around the room so that if you come down fast, it won't be so painful. There is a lesson on levitation in the main lessons section, and it has been discussed here in the forum. Just run a search under the word levitation.
About the heart, it is good if the energies expand and become stable in the heart first. Later, when they are ready, they will move up to the crown and the third eye. Then, after that, they will move back down to the heart again but in a different way. Hopefully things will be more stable for you by then.
Do be carefull about your children. I make sure that I sleep in a different room from my kids so that my energies have less effect on them. Kids are quite resiliant though, so I am sure they will be O.K.
Welcome to the forum.
Christi
Christi
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 11:17:43 PM
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Neli, I find pure and simple intention to be one of the most powerful tools regarding spiritual transformation. If you really feel a call towards the chakras above the heart, one thing that's worked for me for having the energy rise is that, once I'm deep in meditation, is just to intend to balance out whichever chakra. You can almost do it like a short prayer while lightly changing your focus towards and relaxing that particular area. You don't wanna force it, just balance it out, and the energy will move naturally where it needs to go when the time is right.
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 11:43:09 PM
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Hi neli
Welcome to the forum
Why did Rome go broke? The lions were eating all the prophets! 
Many years ago I practiced levitation meditation for 1 month. I devoted 1 hour every day to it and was determined to levitate. The technique is to image a white chord of light starting from your throat chakra progressing upwards to the tip of your now. Then, the chord goes up to the brow and finally up to the crown. (almost like the big dipper). You mentally chant 'ram'.
After a few weeks of performing this meditation, consistently, after 20 minutes of practice, my body would dissolve and an 'upside down waterfall' would appear in the center of my throat extending upwards for about 10 inches. It feels like it could draw you upwards if it were strong enough. I don't think I ever succeeded in levitating, and I haven't tried recently, but maybe with some extra energy from kundalini it would be a piece of cake.
It does mention in "The Clear Light of Bliss" that the simple siddhis like clairvoyance and levitation are rather easy to attain.
I have some questions for you if you don't mind:
When you meditate, do you sit on a silk or wool blanket to prevent the earth's magnetic pull from interfering with your energies?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by neli
I have brought Shiva down, but just a couple of times: It's like if the Shiva energy its kind of (very) lazy. I mostly feel the Shakti energy flowing up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is your technique to bring Shiva down?
How do you bring your Shakti energy up? Does it go up through the front channel or through the spine?
I have melted my crown twice and brought the liquid light down to pound on the root chakra, where upon Kundalini has risen back up to the crown to feed. I did this using a 'kundalini meditation' I found on the crystal links page. Here is that link:
http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html
So I am very curious as to how you are doing it.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mix the K energy with the Jhanas, alhough I know that they are very different, but I think they can complement one each other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a very interesting term: "Jhanas". I've found this post on it and it has answered some questions for me (I've been seeing a bright white sun in my head for a long time now and now I've got documentation from this post that it occurs after you arrest the visual component of the mind.) Here is the link:
http://www.thetaobums.com/lofiversi...hp/t296.html
Here is the quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the visual mind becomes still, you will experience an all
pervading light that may seem to come from a point in front and just
above your head, or from within your body, or from everywhere at
once. The executive mind will be drawn to this as a visual
phenomenon, and as that happens the visual mind reactivates and the
light fades. As you learn to let it be without turning attention
towards it, it persists and will always be present in this Samadhi
thereafter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, since nobody here explained that to me about the light, I am very greatful that your use of the term 'Jhana' has caused me to discover an explanation of the light that I see during meditation. Thank you.
You know, if your magnetic aura gets too big and powerful and affects your son when he is sleeping, you could do two things:
1) Practice closing down your chakras by tightening them somewhat and visualize your aura shrinking down in size before your go to bed.
2) Put an isulation barrier between you and your son. Silk or wool blanket. I saw a silk sleeping bag liner a few days ago in a sporting goods store. It would be perfect to insulate him from your aura. It is like a large pillowcase, all silk and you fit inside when you sleep. (It was $99.00) You know, you could also wrap yourself in a silk blanket when you meditate and see if that stops the object from moving around you.
- just some suggestions.
I look forward to hearing from you.
TI
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 03:34:07 AM
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Hi Divineis,
My intention is to move the energy to the Ajna chakra, or to the crown, maybe cause I don't like the sensation that it causes me in the chest, like tingles,or something expanding. But I cannot force the energy, is like balancing itself, but a friend of mine, told me that the union of the energies were on the chest, not in another place, so mabye I have to let it be, till it goes up alone to another one. How can I get rid of the tingles ? maybe that's impossible.
thanks for your advice.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Neli, I find pure and simple intention to be one of the most powerful tools regarding spiritual transformation. If you really feel a call towards the chakras above the heart, one thing that's worked for me for having the energy rise is that, once I'm deep in meditation, is just to intend to balance out whichever chakra. You can almost do it like a short prayer while lightly changing your focus towards and relaxing that particular area. You don't wanna force it, just balance it out, and the energy will move naturally where it needs to go when the time is right.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 04:17:53 AM
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Hi Tibetan,
Thanks for the welcoming to the forum.
I am not focused in levitation and never have been. It scares me, I don't like this. This is not a gift for me, it's something that I want to get rid of.
Although the clairvoyance has been a gift for me since many years, it came alone and it goes alone, it's like if it comes when it wants.
I meditate on a chair, with no silk or wool blanket. Sometimes I meditate on the floor, but with no blanket, but almost never, cause I prefer the chair, I feel the energy stronger when I am on the chair with my feet on earth.
I call Shiva to come down and meet Shakti, but I sing some mantras for him, but he is so lazy, but I feel him, sometimes I feel him hours later, and after the meditation, and this is very funny, cause I can feel him getting down through my body, while Shakti is not there.
Some people of K, told me that this is the circuit that is closed, and that it is normal, and I feel ecstasy and bliss when Shiva comes down.
Shakti comes up from the front, beginning with my feet, she rises from the front to the chest, but sometimes I feel her on the back through my spine, but moslty I feel her coming up from the front.
I have also melted the energy on the crown, but it only gets down to the heart, and sometimes it goes directly to the Ajna and gets inside all the pouring right there, like feeding it.
Jhanas is a very beautiful and powerful meditation, this is very deep meditation, but it worths a lot.
I see the lights when I am meditating in Jhanas, and my mistake is to put attention to them, cause they are very funny. But they are shy, and blinks away so rapid, I want them to be still, but maybe it will be, if I don't put attention to them.
Once I was for a few seconds in the first jhana, (I supposse) I lost control of all my 5 senses, only my mind was active, and it was all emptiness and void, I was not prepared in that time, so I got scared and I came back to the body, but I dind't even know where my body was,
but I was there again, so sometimes I question myself, what is the difference between the OOBE and the jhanas??? Do you know about this?
I have make several OOBEs, and the sensation is different, and with the jhanas is pure emptiness and void, the ecstasy is before, well I was there for just a few seconds, so maybe I have the wrong point.
in my humble opinion, jhanas are so strong, and the only symptom I had felt, is tinnitus, or something like that, but it went away. Maybe it is because the K flow is stuck in my body. I don't know.
Thanks so much for your suggestions, I'll do something to avoid this.
Although I meditate in a different house, besides mine, but I think the energy continues to flow when I get to my room to sleep.
I'll try to get some silk to protect my meditation of the trembling effects, Do you think it can works?
kind regards
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi neli
Welcome to the forum
Why did Rome go broke? The lions were eating all the prophets!
Many years ago I practiced levitation meditation for 1 month. I devoted 1 hour every day to it and was determined to levitate. The technique is to image a white chord of light starting from your throat chakra progressing upwards to the tip of your now. Then, the chord goes up to the brow and finally up to the crown. (almost like the big dipper). You mentally chant 'ram'.
After a few weeks of performing this meditation, consistently, after 20 minutes of practice, my body would dissolve and an 'upside down waterfall' would appear in the center of my throat extending upwards for about 10 inches. It feels like it could draw you upwards if it were strong enough. I don't think I ever succeeded in levitating, and I haven't tried recently, but maybe with some extra energy from kundalini it would be a piece of cake.
It does mention in "The Clear Light of Bliss" that the simple siddhis like clairvoyance and levitation are rather easy to attain.
I have some questions for you if you don't mind:
When you meditate, do you sit on a silk or wool blanket to prevent the earth's magnetic pull from interfering with your energies?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by neli
I have brought Shiva down, but just a couple of times: It's like if the Shiva energy its kind of (very) lazy. I mostly feel the Shakti energy flowing up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is your technique to bring Shiva down?
How do you bring your Shakti energy up? Does it go up through the front channel or through the spine?
I have melted my crown twice and brought the liquid light down to pound on the root chakra, where upon Kundalini has risen back up to the crown to feed. I did this using a 'kundalini meditation' I found on the crystal links page. Here is that link:
http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html
So I am very curious as to how you are doing it.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mix the K energy with the Jhanas, alhough I know that they are very different, but I think they can complement one each other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is a very interesting term: "Jhanas". I've found this post on it and it has answered some questions for me (I've been seeing a bright white sun in my head for a long time now and now I've got documentation from this post that it occurs after you arrest the visual component of the mind.) Here is the link:
http://www.thetaobums.com/lofiversi...hp/t296.html
Here is the quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the visual mind becomes still, you will experience an all
pervading light that may seem to come from a point in front and just
above your head, or from within your body, or from everywhere at
once. The executive mind will be drawn to this as a visual
phenomenon, and as that happens the visual mind reactivates and the
light fades. As you learn to let it be without turning attention
towards it, it persists and will always be present in this Samadhi
thereafter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, since nobody here explained that to me about the light, I am very greatful that your use of the term 'Jhana' has caused me to discover an explanation of the light that I see during meditation. Thank you.
You know, if your magnetic aura gets too big and powerful and affects your son when he is sleeping, you could do two things:
1) Practice closing down your chakras by tightening them somewhat and visualize your aura shrinking down in size before your go to bed.
2) Put an isulation barrier between you and your son. Silk or wool blanket. I saw a silk sleeping bag liner a few days ago in a sporting goods store. It would be perfect to insulate him from your aura. It is like a large pillowcase, all silk and you fit inside when you sleep. (It was $99.00) You know, you could also wrap yourself in a silk blanket when you meditate and see if that stops the object from moving around you.
- just some suggestions.
I look forward to hearing from you.
TI
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 3:55:28 PM
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Neli, I find in the heart chakra, in many ways its like a deep pain that unites, it sounds bad, but like... love is strong, it doesn't seem a bad pain to me, just more of a reminder that we're all in this together and that sometimes it hurts but we're all out there for each other. The thing with ego is that "it's never enough", but this is all transcended at the heart, it's transformed into "higher spiritual energy", not better, just less ermm... hurting I guess haha, more together.
haha, heart = less hurting, more together. I guess it's both and none, and one and the other and... hey look a poncho. hehe, don't mind me :). |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 04:25:39 AM
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Divineis,
I have found that when my ecstasies are so strong, they are painful, but very pleasant, it reminds me of St. Teresa of Avila, when she is depicted with the angel sticking her with a lance, and she is in total "rapture", but one can see that this is painful, I have felt it, its really painful, but very pleasant, I don't know how to explain this.
When I have felt these strong ecstasies, is when the "light" is near me or engulfs me, my body gets without force, and I cannot move anything, just feel, once it caught me with open eyes (in the middle) so I could see the light perfectly, it was so big, so white, like a cloud, but not like the nimittas, they are different, but the sensation is always in the chest, exactly the same as has been depicted on st. Teresa of Avila.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Divineis
Neli, I find in the heart chakra, in many ways its like a deep pain that unites, it sounds bad, but like... love is strong, it doesn't seem a bad pain to me, just more of a reminder that we're all in this together and that sometimes it hurts but we're all out there for each other. The thing with ego is that "it's never enough", but this is all transcended at the heart, it's transformed into "higher spiritual energy", not better, just less ermm... hurting I guess haha, more together.
haha, heart = less hurting, more together. I guess it's both and none, and one and the other and... hey look a poncho. hehe, don't mind me :).
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 9:42:59 PM
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Cool.
yeah, it's pretty amazing the potential found within the human body when we just bring our awareness inside.
ermm, if you still feel like you're stuck at the heart though, I almost wanna suggest dropping all practices and just do a "sit and be" sort of meditation. Just sit and watch your inner tendencies and let em be and just relax into the witness.
They say there's a point when we just have to drop all practices... I don't wanna pretend that "i know this is your time", but, I find I learn the most when I just "sit and be". Just a friendly suggestion :). |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2008 : 12:55:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by neli
I call Shiva to come down and meet Shakti, but I sing some mantras for him, but he is so lazy, but I feel him, sometimes I feel him hours later, and after the meditation, and this is very funny, cause I can feel him getting down through my body, while Shakti is not there.
Some people of K, told me that this is the circuit that is closed, and that it is normal, and I feel ecstasy and bliss when Shiva comes down.
Shakti comes up from the front, beginning with my feet, she rises from the front to the chest, but sometimes I feel her on the back through my spine, but moslty I feel her coming up from the front.
I have also melted the energy on the crown, but it only gets down to the heart, and sometimes it goes directly to the Ajna and gets inside all the pouring right there, like feeding it.
Hi neli
I'm a little confused. I thought Shiva lived in the crown. When you melt the crown and take it down the sushumna, activating the chakras as you go, you are taking Shiva down. Shakti, which lives at the base of the spine can smell him and starts to wake up, the closer he gets. When you bring Shiva down to the root chakra (by immense concentration, emotional involvement and determination) and keep pouring the liquid light on it, that is what causes Shakti to follow the breadcrumb trail all the way up the sushumna back to the crown. You do not sit back and let Shiva go where he wants, you have to direct him using visualization, willpower, determination, concentration, breathing and desire.
So, I'm unsure which practice you are following.
I recall reading about two separate teachings which say that kundalini lives in the center of the earth and comes upwards through the body when activated. Personally, I don't believe that because I've activated kundalini while sitting on a silk blanket; the silk blanket should have stopped the earth's magnetic influence. As well, the majority of the texts that I've read (B Gita included) state that the energy comes from the base of the spine or the perenium, not the center of the earth..
It would help if you could describe a step by step procedure of how you melt the crown and take it down to the root, and then how you bring kundalini up to the crown. What do you visualize? Did you look at this meditation found on the link that I quoted before?:
quote:
Find a quiet place ... free of distractions.
Adjust the lighting and room temperature.
Adjust clothing . . . footwear . . . eyeglasses.
Sit down or lie down
Find a position that is comfortable for you.
Quiet your mind . . . Still your thoughts.
Relax your body
Your face . . . your jaw . . . relaxing
Your shoulders . . . your neck . . . relaxed
Your arms . . . your hands . . . feel at peace.
Your torso . . . your hips . . . letting go
Your legs . . . your feet . . . totally relaxed
Focus on your breathing.
Inhale slowly and deeply through your nose.
Retain the breath as long as is comfortable.
Exhale through the mouth slowly and completely.
Repeat for two more breaths . . . or as is comfortable.
Now focus your attention on your chakras.
Starting from the top of your head visualize your crown chakra opening.
Watch as pure white light enters your crown chakra
and slowly spirals down through your spine.
The white light opens your third eye chakra.
You may experiences vibrant colors especially in blue, and violet . . .
The white light moves down to your throat chakra releasing your blockages.
You may feel like chanting or singing.
Allow the tones to resonant from your throat.
Do this as long as is comfortable . . .
The white light now enters your heart chakra.
You experience a feeling of unconditional love and compassion.
The white light enters your solar plexus.
Gently your fears - anger - tensions are released.
See the white light enter your spleen chakra
releasing pain and guilt linked to that chakra.
The white light now enters your Root Chakra the seat of your kundalini energy.
As it does, it begins to activate the energy of the base (root) chakra.
Feel the energy suddenly emerge from your Root Chakra,
Spiraling up through the base of your spine as if it were a coiled snake.
The coiled snake represents the spiraling DNA -
opening, activating, bringing you to higher levels of consciousness.
Allow the energy to flow through your chakras.
See the energy wheels rotating.
When your are ready - return your consciousness to your physical body.
Relax and balance your energies.
You might want to drink some water.
Is that meditation what you are doing?
quote:
I'll try to get some silk to protect my meditation of the trembling effects, Do you think it can works?
kind regards
Neli
Well, a sure fire way to find out is to try it. You'll have to let me know how it goes (please?). Also, you might remember to wrap the silk around your head too.
Yes, isn't St. Teresa of Avila wonderful? Did you know that Diane Stein, a prominant Reiki healer has claimed to be St. Teresa incarnate?
Om Shanti
TI |
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Shakti-Shiva and the gifts.
