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x.j.
304 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 02 2008 : 8:12:50 PM
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I would like to alert you to a book that really mirrors the core practices of the AYP program so closely that it provides some great insight into the deep tradition from which much of AYP derives.
The book is "Kriya Yoga, It's Mystery and Performing ARt" by Swami Sadhanananda Giri. First Indian edition was 1998, but First international edition was 2004.
The book is a translation and so at times is in stilted English, but this book is fascinating since it describes almost the entire AYP program, and thus gives a historical perspective to the AYP practices that we love and value so much.
You have to know what the author is talking about at times, but we know what he's talking about, because we know the practices he is describing. I think he was being careful not to give all the particular instructions away in book form, but for those of us who know what he is saying, this book is a revelation because it gives even more advanced instruction and information into the previously guarded and intensely secret teachings of Kriya Yoga.
For those who may not know, Kriya Yoga is said to have originated with the famous Christ of the Himalayas, Sri Babaji Maharaj(Immortal), and the lineage goes to Sri Lahiri Mahasaya(1825-1895), to Swami Sriyukteswar Giri(1855-1936), to Paramhansa Yogananda(1893-1952), and ultimately to the author Swami Sadhanananda Giri(1951-present).
The identical practices of AYP are revealed of pranayama/kumbhaka(p.100), spinal breathing-"third kriya" (p146), advanced khecari mudra with reference to cutting the frenum-but no instructions of course(p, 103), sambhavi mudra (p 110), mulavandha mudra-heel to perineum(p.112),yoni mudra (p.124), japa kriya (p.131) including Upansu-muttering mantra practice, as well as manasa-silent mantra meditation(p. 132). Regarding Yogani's concept of the 'the guru is in you" that is referred to at page 157:"...Sri Guruji, enthroned in the depth of the heart."
But then some other practices outside of AYP(perhaps even more advanced instructions beyond AYP, including "fourth kriya"
which is spinal breathing with khumbhaka-stage of nirvana. Also some refinements of mantra practices focusing on each chakra separately but in sequence, and some other esoteric instruction that we at AYP know what he's saying and like what he's saying, but we have to read between the lines.
The power of AYP is that it is such clear instruction in kriya yoga practices, but the power of kriya yoga as described in this book is in some ways beyond AYP. Perhaps of some interest for the person who wishes to go farther. Who wishes to go "all the way"
Sri Babaji lives in these teachings, and is with us always if we chose to call on him out loud, to utter his name in the quiet of the midnight hour in our meditation room, because then he will come to each of us! Because he is permanently with us to be our guru of the heart, the Christ of the Himalayas. In the Himalayas of the Heart.
Get this book on Amazon.com!
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 10:42:19 AM
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Hi John:
Since AYP started being published back in 2003, it has often been associated with this or that tradition. I guess it is part of the never-ending human quest to apply labels to everything. While it is true that the integrated approach to practices utilized in AYP considers methods found in many traditions, it is not an off-shoot or clone of any tradition. So the labels do not apply.
Kriya Yoga gets singled out pretty often as being a more hefty path of which AYP is but a shadow. Actually, I think the reverse is true, in the sense that Kriya Yoga has become a shadow of what it was in the distant past. That is what happens to spiritual paths as they travel the dusty corridors of time, particularly secret paths, which most paths have been until now. They tend to become ingrown and fractured, with the remains becoming over-embellished and diluted in their effectiveness.
For example, there is evidence that the "advanced" versions of spinal breathing found in modern Kriya Yoga, involving chakra visualizations and mantra recitations, are actually degradations in the basic no-frills, highly effective practice of spinal breathing that we use in AYP. It is telling that the loaded-down Kriya Yoga version of spinal breathing requires much longer sittings while producing fewer results.
And there is really no comparison between Kriya Yoga "passive listening" omkar meditation and the "active favoring" of mantra in deep meditation as used in AYP. They are completely different practices, producing very different results.
These two comparisons alone place Kriya Yoga and AYP in different universes, so it is misleading to equate them.
Other practices which might seem to be shared between Kriya Yoga and AYP are also applied in fundamentally different ways. Plus, there are important elements of practice in AYP that are not part of Kriya Yoga -- such as tantric sexual methods and samyama.
It is really about optimizing results. While we see people "busting out all over" in the AYP community, we don't hear much from the stodgy environs of Kriya Yoga. Maybe they are just more modest and less enthusiastic about spiritual openings than we are? 
Much more can be learned about the origins of AYP by studying John Wilder than by studying Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. Which is to say, AYP is based more on the natural neurobiology of human spiritual transformation found in all of us than on any handed down tradition. It is good to study the traditions, but not so good to get stuck in them. A viable spiritual path should reflect causes and effects occurring within us in the present, not clinging to by-rote methods that have been handed down. If it works in the present, then use it. And if it doesn't, then better keep looking. That should apply when considering any system of practice, including AYP.
So, while there may appear to be similarities between Kriya Yoga and AYP, such comparisons are only skin deep. I have great respect for the venerable tradition of Kriya Yoga, but what we are doing here is not a clone of it, and certainly not a less powerful version of it. Let the results speak for themselves.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 11:28:34 AM
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While the subject is being discussed I'd like to happily report that there are versions of Kriya Yoga which have been streamlined in ways similar to the AYP approach. Or at least one path of Kriya I know of has been boiled down to very effective basics. Here is a link for those who may be interested in researching an alternative approach to Kriya Yoga that have evolved through thirty plus years of Carl Schmidt's experience:
http://www.thehomefoundation.com/Kr...chniques.htm
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 11:34:44 AM
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Since it is the same nervous system we are unfolding, is it not inevitable that there would be similarities in some practices between different systems?
Just as it is obvious that many assanas (maybe all) stem from "automatic" yoga, couldn't the same be said for aspects of sitting practices in yoga?
From my experience this was certainly the case here, where many mudras and bandas spontaneously occurred before having read of them. Of course not all, but on the other side, once the nervous system is open, it doesn't take much to feel and appreciate the effectiveness of certain practices.
I could certainly see how practices could lose their effectiveness over time if tradition and secrecy is honoured above the natural flow and evolution of understanding which occurs from practicing.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 08:01:26 AM
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Good morning,
I like AYP because it is stripped down to what works with no frills. It is simple, direct and effective. These are the principles that Bruce Lee applied to his fighting art. If it didn’t produce “real world results” he threw it out. The guiding principle was, what works?
He brought martial art out of the shrouds of oriental enigma and, in fact was challenged by the San Francisco martial arts community to put up or shut up because he was teaching non Chinese the secrets of Chinese kung fu. He beat their best representative so he didn’t shut up. But he wasn’t happy with his performance. He broke out his tradition of kung fu and became eclectic as a result, in his effort to create the most effective form of martial art.
He used to say that until human beings have 3 arms and 4 legs, martial art will always be bound by certain principles. In the same way, even tho we are all different, we are all the same in some fundamental ways. We all have the same neurobiology with a spinal cord and its expansion, the brain at the top. And we all have our own unique expression of that commonality. Purification and opening of that neurobiology is guided by certain principles that apply to all of us.
It looks to me like Yogani has done the same thing within the field of Yoga. Spinal breathing, deep meditation, etc. are not the property of anyone tradition. But they are the nuts and bolts of them all. Yogani has put together a very simple, direct and effective application of yoga exercises, devoid of any unessentials and based on the fundamental truths inherent in our constitution.
He has decoded the inscrutable Hatha Yoga Pradipika and Yoga Sutras and put them into modern day terms. And he expresses them in a way that, at least for me, is very understandable, with an emphasis on easy, effective, and results producing application.
OK, martial art is a rather rajasic endeavor but there is a similarity in how the individuals mentioned adapted themselves and their teaching to their respective fields in an effort to achieve the best results and cut out all the cultural/group BS.
Thanks, Yogani.
Best, yb.
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 11:03:12 PM
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In the book "Kriya Yoga--It's Mystery and Performing Art" on pages 126 and 127, the author discusses the significance of the Third Eye "scenery" which many of us perceive. Bear in mind the English translation of this book is a little stiff, (but the translator apologizes for that in the introduction.) And here is the quote:
"By means of yonimudra the sadhaka observes in the kutastha an exquisite circle of blue light bristling within an aroma of brilliant yellow or white colour. This is considered as the dual image of Srimati Radha and Sri Krishna or the Supreme Self, (kutasha caitanya) and his force and energy, the personified will of the Supreme Self. All the while Sri Radha is inextricably juxtaposed with Lord Krishna or the Supreme Self in the form of kutastha caitanya. According to the great Sriyukteswar Giri Maharaj,-'In the kutastha there is the third eye meant for the glance of wisdom. This eye has four components. The first part in the external division is the sclera. In the middle of it is the second part, the black and round ball. In the third part, an yellowish ring encircles it. Inside the black ball there is the fourth part, the five edged star, the gem of the eye. When a sadhaka goes on practicing yonimudra he discovers black colour with yellow rays in the kutastha. The sadhaka perceives it as the yellow lightened Sri Radha embracing Lord Krishna. Small white particles of light resembling star are infact the exposition of the proper light of kutashtha caitanya symbolising many secrets of the spiritual world. The development of real wisdom and devotion a sadhaka experiences as soon as he is exposed to a light as such'."
Divine "scenery". Praise the Lord for that blessing. In fact the term "scenery" doesn't do justice to the exaltedness of "what" is there for the sadhaka to witness. That What,.. is God. |
Edited by - x.j. on Apr 17 2008 12:43:49 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 04:47:50 AM
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Hey John,
Just wanted to give my opinion on the subject.
i used to practice kriya yoga techniques which i got from a friend of mine who has been practicing for quite a long time and than found that they where also published on the net.
And after practicing the kriya yoga techniques i found out that they didn't belong to any special tradition like this or that they are just a system of techniques found to be practiced here and there from different traditions.
and in this site http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/ you will find what i mean cz the website owner shows where this and that came from.
and plus i think you should read the book hatha yoga pradipika and it's found on wikipedia for free.
And after doing the kriya yoga techniques day in and day out, someday by God's grace i was led here when i was searching about kechari mudra and i don't know y but i got really pulled toward the main lessons which i read and practiced later on.
and to be honest and give credit where it should belong i found the AYP techniques to be a lot more effective than the techniques of kriya yoga and i've been getting a lot better results concerning stillness and the part of the witness which is the most important one and the reason why we are doing all this from the beginning.
and concerning sceneries well i've been having them b4 even doing kriya yoga or AYP techniques so that's smthg i got used too from my early childhood but even though with the AYP techniques the sceneries have gotten a lot better still with divine smells and lights and so on plus an increased power and expanding in my imagination which seems nowaday as unlimited.
and plus once u read the secrets of wilder u'll get a better idea on the subject but really it doesn't matter who got this from that.
what matters is which system is more effective and after experiencing first hand i would say AYP and plus i am not the only one that says this there are others here who where doing kriya yoga and then got here and had the same results as i did.
Namaste
Ananda |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 11:49:02 AM
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I think that John is correct. I also think that there is no way of knowing yet what practices people were doing before AYP and whether or not they were regular with it. That is the key point because 20 minutes of I AM mantra is easy to pull off but the key to success is regularity, and it fits people's schedules much better. So unless you had the time before, that might be because you find AYP better. Aside from mantra meditation, the Kriya yoga versus the spinal breathing probably has minor changes that make a big difference in terms of ease of practice. That is why most people on the AYP forums prefer spinal breathing.
But i think it is misleading to say AYP is "the best". Whatever floats one's boat is "the best".
And for the scenery idea, i have said before that the spiritual eye cannot be scenery because it is the face of God! I know where my priorities lie and it would be dishonest for me to accept the idea that such a thing can be considered scenery only. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 5:27:01 PM
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Hey gumpi,
well concidering the third eye and everything else well we can concider it all as the face of god.
cz in the end if u would ask an enlightened person about what happens when u get enlightened? he would say that u get to know everything as light and that this white light is the essence of all and then u melt in that light and become one with it and after that u'd c everything material melting into that light.
and after a certain period of about 2 months perhaps there it is u get to that sort of final upgrade and than when u return to this nature u would start hearing a sound that comes out without ur permission saying that i am god etcccc.
but talking is smthg and experience is smthg else and i pray i can get to that stage and hopefuly will get there the grace of the god plus it would be significant to say that even concerning enlightenment not all people experience the same stuff but in the end they experience the samae truth.
and concerning kriya yoga and ayp well they are both great and me for person i have experienced them both but not entirely cz there was some self pacing happening.
and i can tell u that there are a lot of similarities between the two but to be honest with u i've found the ayp techniques to be more simple and more effective and more evolving spiritualy that is.
and i've been seeing the fruit of the practice of ayp very rappidely cz for example when i 1st got here i had a premature crown chakra opening but it was at an early stage and didn't have anything bad happening and i used to practice kriya yoga then plus a certain pranayama technique from swami vivekananda's book on raja yoga.
so when i got here as soon as i started practicing just spinal breathing and meditation all was settled in 2 days and the premature crown opening turned into smthg i benefited for and was under control and the meditation techniques here are simply mind blowing truth be told.(simple but very effective)
and by the way concerning the kriya techniques these people got me lost there where like a zillion differences in the techniques from here and there and each teacher teaches smthg plus there is all that secrecy and guru lineages and the worthy and not worthy thing.
plus some people can't even afford paying for learning kriya yoga and i was bedazled by the way when i heard that they could teach u everything on the net if u just would pay up now and then for some lessons i found later for free on the net.
meaning everything got commercialized and i bet that this isn't how paramhansa yogananda wanted things to be executed after his death.
and in the end not everything works the same for everyone u r u and i am me and we r not living the same life with the same habbits etc.
plus u should give smthg a fair trial to say if it works for u best or not.
Kind regards
Ananda
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 03:00:27 AM
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| Whatever floats your boat. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 04:49:21 AM
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:) cheers to that.
Namaste |
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