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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 23 2008 : 8:33:14 PM
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A forum "lurker" sent the following to me via email. I asked for permission to reply here publicly, so that she could get responses from other people as well. She agreed.
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I feel I am in need of an Emergency Solution. I am uncertain as to why, so I want to begin with you having this knowledge of me first. I have been meditating regularly since only this January 2008, sometimes twice a day. In trying to research more of my health issues I came upon a possible symptom of kundalini, in which I have never heard of, so I have engulfed myself into finding out all I can, as I believe this is the possible answer, if so, now what, that's the information I cannot seem to find anywhere. More importantly this week I have experienced some amazing meditation - I saw Jesus, he was walking on water and towards me, I felt him lay his hands and kind of twist all my chakras clean - we didn't speak, I felt like he put this halo on me, because all week I keep touching my head feeling like there is something on top of it. I mentioned to my husband that I feel like my head is carrying something, he put his hand above my head and said, My God you have so much energy above your head. So I went back on line searching and found this site, that stated " Then there is yet another deeper samadhi where the soul comes out of your body and stabilizes about six inches over the head. Then you can get God realization [sakshatkara]. After some time the soul re-enters the body"
What am I to do during this time of the soul leaving my body?
I have been out of work for a while and am an at home mom for now, but I still don't have much time for myself with my 3 year old. Should I be requesting support from my family to possibly take him for a few hours during the day?
Well, here's my answer. AYP (the spiritual practice to which this site's primarily devoted) advises against paying attention to opening the crown chakra (the top of the head and the space just above it) until much purification has taken place. Premature crown opening, among other problems, can leave you a little untethered, and also lead to over-energization issues. It sounds like you've already had an opening there. And it seems like you're aching for more. The crown's like that...it's seductive. By putting your attention there, you will bring energy there (energy follows attention), and that may turn out to be a be-careful-what-you-wish-for proposition. More symptoms!
There's lots more yoga to be done that doesn't involve celestial travel and all that sort of stuff. What i'd strongly suggest is that you read the AYP lessons and get into a daily practice to get your energy under control and to more gradually and naturally (and less intellectually) work on opening yourself up. This practice will allow you to continue to meet worldly obligations and ensure continuing health and stability as you proceed on your journey. It will also indirectly nourish your crown, so that when the time is right, you can get into all that.
Atop this page, you'll see a link for "Main Lessons". If I were you, I'd read up to (and including) lesson 13. Try the meditation for a few days. Then move on to the spinal breathing lesson (which will help integrate your energy and openings). At that point, if you thirst to know more, order the meditation and spinal breathing books you see advertised on the right side of this screen (if you feel a need for them but can't afford them, there's a program where we can send them free to you...hopefully Shweta will pop in with that address). And, if all goes well, you can start advancing through more lessons. Lots of interesting stuff to read and to try. I, myself, do just the basic practices. But everyone's different.
The main thing I'd suggest is less web surfing for confusing bits of advice like the one you quoted. It's like the bible...interpretations are myriad, and it's hard to separate out the mythologizing from the real-deal info. Really, the idea isn't to "figure out how it all works". It's not like learning to play the bassoon or to speak French - you don't add together all the bits of scholarship and know-how and eventually state that you've "mastered the topic". This is a whole other thing, separate from all that, and there's not much to actually know. Truly, it's best approached as a simple daily practice, done much like you brush your teeth. My soul can exit my body through my toenail and vacation in Cozumel for all I know or care....Idunno, I'm OUT of that loop! I let go, and let God (or whatever term you prefer). If that attitude appeals to you, you'll love AYP.
Finally, the health issues you privately described may (or may not) have origins in energy issues. There are two approaches to energy issues: you can try to figure it all out and rewire your own system, or you can just gradually bring everything into balance via a systematic, rigorously regular practice of meditation and spinal breathing. It sounds like you could use the latter. And AYP is, again, a great way to go.
Hope this helps,
JIM |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 28 2008 11:56:17 PM |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2008 : 10:54:33 PM
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Hi Jim and Thank You again!
When I begin my meditation, I prefer to lie down, so I am not even sitting in the lotus style position that is recommended but not required. I proceed with 2 - 5 minutes of the spinal breathing, then I begin to Say "I AM" in my mind, as in the main lessons, when I realize my mind has drifted from saying "I AM" (I dont realize when they come in)I pretty much say... oh look you've drifted, then I go back to the "I AM".
So, when I hear people saying dont pay much attention to the crown, I feel confused, because I dont feel as if I am, when I feel the pressures or see what I see, I pretty much say to myself oh look, your off of the I AM again, and return to that if possible. I feel as if I would have to; not say "I AM" and literally concentrate and visualize on my 1st Chakra or force a thought as to not experience or feel what I feel. I hope this makes sense.
Also, I did learn on this sight about surrendering to the "pain" we somtimes feel when meditating, as it is part of the purifying process. That has helped tremendous, because I overcome my fear, that I usually have and realize, it's not that painful, and in turn, what I notice is that other parts of my body are healing themselves. I had/have a scar over my left eyebrow that travels to my left eye lid, from a car accident, now the scar still remains moreso on top of the eye lid, the eyebrow part of the scar is just about gone! For 2 - 3 days after I felt all that energy on the top outside part of my head, I felt little baby spark like sensations throughout the day on my left eyebrow. It felt like lttle spiders bitting my eyebrow or something, I literally went to the mirror, to see if I had been bitten, and noticed that the hairline of my eyebrow has been reconnected, and moved my brow hair around and noticed the scar gone.
Another Confusing & Fearful Experience - I had fallen asleep as I was putting my 3 year old down for sleep, so no "Web Suring" before bed :+) Later on my husband came in, moved my son into his own room, then went to sleep with me. Shortly thereafter, I woke up to use the restroom, and when I went into the bathroom, there is a mirror you automatically see yourself in, and my eyes were neon green and my pupils yellow, I got so scared, I flew back into bed, and said what color are my eyes? He said brown, why are you shaking? So, I told him, then he said when he first got into bed with me I was being restless again, tossing, turning, and breathing hard, then stopped a few minutes before I woke up to use the restroom.
I am going to take your advice and not surf as much to find the why and just enjoy the ride, but honestly the ride scares me sometimes and thats why I "surf" because I really feel that fear is nothing more than being uneducated. So I guess you can say my "surfing" is a way I have been trying to break through my fear.
Thank You Very Much!
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 04:13:09 AM
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Hi Nancy,
I agree with Jim about surfing.To be honest there is more information on this forum or in Yoganis books than you will find on most of the net.Also 'a little knowledge can be dangerous' as the saying goes.You will read stuff without understanding and frighten yourself.Everyone's experiences are different AND correct for themselves.I'm not trying to play down your problems as they have been serious at times but what you need is support from experienced people and unless you are fortunate enough to find someone who can give you personal attention then I suggest you continue to read the lessons and follow this regime.Although I don't follow AYP practices I believe that unless you have another support system then this is as good as it gets.With Kundalini practices we are in the realms of Quantum physics and as the physicists don't know how it works then don't expect anyone else either.The rishis have been teaching QP for years but only now are the scientists eating humble pie and admitting it is so.As we cannot explain QP then I believe the scriptures of India were written in a way that we could get some inkling of understanding although only experiences will give you some of the meanings.Trouble is how do we explain our experiences with our limited communication system or understanding. Better to do the practices and don't have expectations, and ask away!!!!
L&L
Dave |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 10:30:00 AM
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Hi Nancy
quote:
I am not even sitting in the lotus style position that is recommended but not required
AYP does NOT recommend the lotus position. You may want to reread the lessons...you're pretty jittery from your premature crown stuff, and reading the lessons will not only ensure that you're practicing properly, but will also help mellow everything out. Yogani's prose is good for that. Mild, yet full of bhakti.
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I pretty much say... oh look you've drifted, then I go back to the "I AM".
awesome! just perfect! No anger or frustration....just childlike observation. Bring it back. And bring it back. And bring it back. That itself is the practice.
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So, when I hear people saying dont pay much attention to the crown, I feel confused, because I dont feel as if I am,
I'm not just talking about during practice. I mean during the rest of the day. Concentrate on other parts of your body (may I interest you, for example, in your elbows or kneecaps?). or, better yet, engage in the world. Play with your kids. Clean the kitchen floor. Keep busy. That's the best grounding you could do, and your health history indicates you could use some grounding. It's hard to fidget around with your crown when you're talking to the grocer or folding towels!
quote:
when I feel the pressures or see what I see, I pretty much say to myself oh look, your off of the I AM again, and return to that if possible. I feel as if I would have to; not say "I AM" and literally concentrate and visualize on my 1st Chakra or force a thought as to not experience or feel what I feel. I hope this makes sense.
No, it doesn't. Stop managing. During meditation, JUST do the "I am". during spinal breathing, JUST do the up and down. Trying NOT to do stuff at the crown is doing stuff at the crown! Don't do anything but say "I am" and bring it back when it stops. that's the most important thing. Even if Jesus Christ himself shows up, do nothing but that.
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Also, I did learn on this sight about surrendering to the "pain" we somtimes feel when meditating, as it is part of the purifying process.
Ii've written a lot about such things, but I don't mean to do it during meditation. During meditation, just say "I am" and bring it back. That's it. Be stubbornly fundamentalist on this point! Tolerate no bending of that rule! :)
quote:
That has helped tremendous, because I overcome my fear, that I usually have and realize, it's not that painful, and in turn, what I notice is that other parts of my body are healing themselves. I had/have a scar over my left eyebrow that travels to my left eye lid, from a car accident, now the scar still remains moreso on top of the eye lid, the eyebrow part of the scar is just about gone! For 2 - 3 days after I felt all that energy on the top outside part of my head, I felt little baby spark like sensations throughout the day on my left eyebrow. It felt like lttle spiders bitting my eyebrow or something, I literally went to the mirror, to see if I had been bitten, and noticed that the hairline of my eyebrow has been reconnected, and moved my brow hair around and noticed the scar gone.
We're not trying, in meditation, to achieve miracles or self-cure. Those are just experiences, and if they happen on their own, they're to be treated like any other sort of distraction. My advice is to get back to brass tacks. Say "I am". Bring it back when it stops. And stop doing OTHER THINGS during meditation. Outside meditation, engage and work and ground. That's the AYP way, and you, IMO, could use that.
quote:
Another Confusing & Fearful Experience - I had fallen asleep as I was putting my 3 year old down for sleep, so no "Web Suring" before bed :+) Later on my husband came in, moved my son into his own room, then went to sleep with me. Shortly thereafter, I woke up to use the restroom, and when I went into the bathroom, there is a mirror you automatically see yourself in, and my eyes were neon green and my pupils yellow, I got so scared, I flew back into bed, and said what color are my eyes? He said brown, why are you shaking? So, I told him, then he said when he first got into bed with me I was being restless again, tossing, turning, and breathing hard, then stopped a few minutes before I woke up to use the restroom.
I'd suggest you simply stop looking for such things. You seem to have a potent attraction/revulsion to all that, and it fuels your internal anguished dramatic narrative ("all the wondrous and strange things happening to me"). Can you let that stuff drop for a while, let the narrative drop, stop looking at your eye color and whatever and just quietly do your practices as I've suggested, and other than that, be grounded in this world to your family, your kids, your friends, your work.....and stop picking at the scabs? It's time for an in-body experience! Rereading Yogani's lessons (as much for his tone as for his ideas) is also helpful. It's really hard to imagine Yogani getting anguished about changing eye color, no? And he's surely having more dramatic experiences than that.
This shakiness you're experiencing, btw, is typical of premature crown opening. AYP is an antidote, and I'd suggest approaching it per my suggestions in this thread. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 24 2008 10:32:41 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 10:33:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
You will read stuff without understanding and frighten yourself
Damn right. I was freaked out, in the beginning, by reports that there were "bad entities" waiting to descend and take over your system if you really dropped your guard. That's a heckuva mental image for a beginning meditator, no?
Nancy, Riptiz is our friend here who amiably fights the good fight to convince folks that the old guru model is the better way to go. It's good to hear that view here, because it is still definitely the majority viewpoint. However, I'd argue back that AYP isn't a fallback choice for those unlucky enough not to have hooked up with a guru. As Yogani (the guy who formulated AYP) says, the guru is within. And it's absolutely true (though it certainly doesn't devalue Riptiz's choice...the guru within can also be out there....why not?).
But I totally agree with him that the lack of expectations isn't just helpful...it's crucial. What is your expectation level when brushing teeth? You know that, in big picture, you're ensuring a certain amount of health, and staving off pain and rot. It's a "good thing to do". But any one session....pfffft. Just a daily ablution, not really more than that. That mild-mannered approach is soooooooooooo much better a tack to take in meditation and spiritual practice that it's really quite unbelievable. How often does your mind interfere with your tooth-brushing? I rest my case! |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 3:28:24 PM
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Hi Jim & Thank You Thank You...
I appreciate your quick respnse and everyones input, in my 35 years, it feels better than confession right now to be able to speak, both sides of my experiences. Please know that my personality style is asking questions and asking questions again, if I dont get something. Not that I dont believe what someone is saying, but I have to understand it or at least feel connected to a part of it.
So with that.....
I'm not just talking about during practice. I mean during the rest of the day. Concentrate on other parts of your body (may I interest you, for example, in your elbows or kneecaps?). or, better yet, engage in the world. Play with your kids. Clean the kitchen floor. Keep busy. That's the best grounding you could do, and your health history indicates you could use some grounding. It's hard to fidget around with your crown when you're talking to the grocer or folding towels!
I chuckle at that because I have to force myself to make the time just to meditate. I am busy from the minute I wake up until I go to sleep. 3 Children 13 - 9 - 3, all wanting to go different ways - Coach an Odyssey of the mind team - neat freak always cleaning and folding laundry.
I'd suggest you simply stop looking for such things. You seem to have a potent attraction/revulsion to all that, and it fuels your internal anguished dramatic narrative ("all the wondrous and strange things happening to me"). Can you let that stuff drop for a while, let the narrative drop, stop looking at your eye color and whatever and just quietly do your practices as I've suggested, and other than that, be grounded in this world to your family, your kids, your friends, your work.....and stop picking at the scabs? It's time for an in-body experience! Rereading Yogani's lessons (as much for his tone as for his ideas) is also helpful. It's really hard to imagine Yogani getting anguished about changing eye color, no? And he's surely having more dramatic experiences than that.
okay I got your point seeing JESUS in meditation, ... I'll just brush my Teeth...
My question Jim, if you woke up in the middle of the night with nothing other than using the restroom on your mind; and you saw yourself in the mirror and your eyes were neon green and yellow, you mean to tell me that you would not get freaked out or at the least jump on this forum and ask if anybody has had the same experience? C'mon now, for real.
This shakiness you're experiencing, btw, is typical of premature crown opening. AYP is an antidote, and I'd suggest approaching it per my suggestions in this thread.
I have actually already began your suggestions, :+) I had already read the first 13 chapters, but I did go over them again, as well as bought every book yogani has on this site with the Mp3 download available - I will give you updates -
I feel I had experienced a premature Kundalini Awakening when I allowed that Preacher to lay his hands on my head and I feel that a person can have kundalini rising multiple times - I would like some other peoples input on that one...(I think)
I have to go for now Peace to all
Nancy |
Edited by - Nancy on Mar 25 2008 3:53:27 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 6:16:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
My question Jim, if you woke up in the middle of the night with nothing other than using the restroom on your mind; and you saw yourself in the mirror and your eyes were neon green and yellow, you mean to tell me that you would not get freaked out or at the least jump on this forum and ask if anybody has had the same experience? C'mon now, for real
Quite honestly, at this point, anything's possible, and I view myself with the inured shrug of the most nonplussed Manhattan pedestrian. After a while, more and more is taken in stride, and you stop "looking for signs". The Manhattan pedestrian attitude's a good one, especially for someone for some premature crown activity. It's grounding. Down to earth. Brush your teeth. Get on with it. Etc etc  Otherwise you can get caught up in a mythical trip, and that sort of thing is just digression (at best...at worst, ego starts inflating wildly, a really sad state of affairs that can even afflict AYP practitioners).
quote:
I have actually already began your suggestions, :+) I had already read the first 13 chapters, but I did go over them again, as well as bought every book yogani has on this site with the Mp3 download available
My suggestion is to self-pace even THAT. Yogani's prose can be inspiring, and "inspired" is sort of the opposite of "grounded". Consider which way you ought to go at any particular time. I'm glad you reread, but I don't suggest you languish ; just brush your teeth twice per day and otherwise do your life.
quote:
I feel I had experienced a premature Kundalini Awakening when I allowed that Preacher to lay his hands on my head and I feel that a person can have kundalini rising multiple times - I would like some other peoples input on that one...(I think)
You've had a bunch of premature stuff. I'm trying to urge you to ground. I very well understand the urge to turn toward MORE spirituality to fix an overabundance of spirituality. When in turmoil, we grasp at the tools that have been most meaningful and personal to us. But if I were you, I'd go as wordly as possible for a while. Just do (don't overdo!) practices a couple times per day, like brushing your teeth. Don't think/chat/read about it, don't mull it all over (don't even hang out here too much!). Don't peer into the mirror, don't check for stigmata. Just get back to Earth for a few weeks/months/years to balance things out and build capacity for safer openings in the future. Don't try to "figure it all out" and don't go LOOKING for stuff. Try to fall into drudgey routine!
That's what I'd do, anyway....my two cents.... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 25 2008 6:22:10 PM |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 7:26:45 PM
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Ok Mr. Manhattan
First - I now know why I felt the connection w/ you. You know maybe your "Manhattan Pedestrian" theory is the answer, my health & all this STUFF has only intesified when I left New York... (are you close to Soho?)
Seriously though this just came to me when I replied to a different post...
So not attempting to figure out the meaning of whatever experience and not trying to understand is where the surrendering happens and that is when it will all be unfolded anyway regardless. Oh, my did I get that right???
Peace
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 7:35:41 PM
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I agree completely with Jim. You probably need self pacing, which is pretty much forgetting about yoga for a while, and grounding.
Sure, anyone would be freaked out by your eye color experience. But just keep in mind that any number of weird things might happen, it's different for everyone, so we can't warn you of what to expect. just have faith in God, Jesus or whatever your highest ideal is called, and know that those weird experiences are all SCENERY, in Yogani's terms.
In other words, strange things may happen, and you can ignore them all. Just look at them briefly, then move on to something else because they are not important.
There is nothing to fear. Strengthen your faith to get rid of fear. These experineces are the precursor to wonderful things.
P.S. 1) Your soul being a few inches above your head is not "out" of your body. The complete body is much larger than the physical body. It is the size of the aura, and more. This experience is probably leading to the experience that you are more than your body.
2) You saw Jesus because you believe in him. The healing is real, and comes from divinity, but we make up the appearance. Since Jesus died he has become a part of a greater consciousness than we can understand on earth, so we see what we believe because the divinity is beyond our understanding.
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 7:41:51 PM
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Etherfish
You saw Jesus because you believe in him. The healing is real, and comes from divinity, but we make up the appearance. Since Jesus died he has become a part of a greater consciousness than we can understand on earth, so we see what we believe because the divinity is beyond our understanding.
Thank You - That filled my heart with LOVE
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 11:25:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
So not attempting to figure out the meaning of whatever experience and not trying to understand is where the surrendering happens and that is when it will all be unfolded anyway regardless. Oh, my did I get that right???
That's just more trying to understand! Much like you're focusing on crown if you think a lot about NOT focusing on crown, you're trying to UNDERSTAND why you oughtn't try to understand!
The only solution is..........yep, you got it: engage in real life. Get off the topic. The only woo-woo mystical thing you do is done like brushing your teeth, and then you're out of there and back to being American Housewife (and whatever other roles you play here on the ground).
Experiences are GENERALLY NOT MEANINGFUL. That's a more severe way of expressing something Yogani says more gently. But it's true. Most of what you're experiencing is just the smoke and shrapnel and side-effect of purification and energy movement. A lot of it is enjoyable, most of it is catchy and distracting, and some of it is a little frightening. It's just smoke. Don't get wrapped up on it. View it with detached amusement, or, better, just get on with your life. There aren't secret messages, just static. Chop wood and carry water! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 25 2008 11:26:26 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2008 : 10:07:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nancy
Thank You - That filled my heart with LOVE
Mine, too. And it was a more inspiring way of stating it than the way i chose. But to repeat one more time, there is a time for inspiration and a time for grounding. And when we're "over inspired" (so to speak), we naturally crave more, sort of like how allergic people crave more of what's ailing them.
Less heart swelling! More tooth brushing and real world engagement!
This, btw, is how I got myself out of my one big overdoing predicament. So the stuff I'm saying to you is the stuff I figured out to say to myself at the time! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 29 2008 12:03:08 AM |
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Nancy
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2008 : 10:54:10 AM
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I just wanted to post a sincere huge loving THANK YOU to all of you. I know it takes "time" when someone responds to a post offering their support, and the "time" taken is greatly appreciated. I have followed much of the advice that was given and I am in a much healthier space because of it.
Thank You
Living in Love & Light
Nancy |
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"What am I to do while my soul leaves my body?"
