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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 17 2008 : 2:17:37 PM
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Hi
This might seem a bit daft but I am having real trouble clearing a piece of land of some trees.
Last week I went there with a chain saw to cut down about four trees so I could put a mobile home in that location.
Before I went to start the chain saw I dicided to say a prayer for the tree. I went up to it and ended up holding it and feeling love and oneness for the tree.
It gave me a real dilemma I couldn't come to cut down the tree, and wondered if I would have to scrap the notion of putting sometihing on the site.
After some thought I discovered a different way of getting the home in and putting it in a different location on the site.
Today however I discovered I will have to cut down one lovely tree to located the mobile home.
I tuned into this tree and got the same love.
So my question is what do I do?
There are obviously going to be situations for everyone where choices like this have to be made.
Is there some way I can cut into the flesh of this tree and kill it without hardening my heart?
Thanks
Louis |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2008 : 2:26:27 PM
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There's a Chinese story coming to my mind... about a carpenter who made the most wonderful chairs ever seen! People admired the chairs and asked how he was able to do such wonderful pieces of art work with wood? He said he only used trees that were willing to die. He spent hours in the forest walking around asking if anyone of them were willing to sacrifice. Not until he found a tree who volunteered did he cut it down, and then he made beautiful chairs to honor the tree!
Why don't you try to ask the tree if it is willing to sacrifice? With your ability to tune in I'm sure you'll get a clear answer!
You know, death IS life! Every death brings a birth - in what other way could we dance this life? So... will you be sad to cut down the tree, or will you greet the new plants that will grow up in its place?
Or... why don't you do samyama on it? I bet life will find a solution that you would never think of - surprising solutions often come to clear out dilemmas like this!
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2008 : 7:16:34 PM
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Thank you for you're words of wisdom emc
I love the Chinese story 
If it is absolutely necessary to cut the tree down I think it will be ok with the tree.
These sorts of decisions are new to me, previously I would have been very pragmatic about it, said a prayer and got on with it.
Perhaps it's because I plan on making a space there for meditation etc that is bringing up a more sacred response from me. Which of course leads to the fact that my motives are selfish, in that I don't want any bad vibes around the place.
Funny, I don't have any problem cutting briars and gorse. Trees do seem to have a special energy.
Thanks |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2008 : 10:40:13 PM
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Hey Louis,
Trees are very special for shamans to trance into lower world because they have deep roots going down towards earth core.
Most people only practice grounding which is needed when doing energy work but at some point, it is not enough, people need to practice rooting to go deeper into their shadow.
Just connect via a method you feel confortable with the tree and listen to what he can offer you.
Albert |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 03:57:04 AM
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I think there's the common misconception that there's certain rules to enlightenment, like no eating meat and such. I really like Yogani's emphasis on being super-normal... very normal. I think one can realise the Self and still enjoy eating some meat every once in a while, or having sex or whatever limitations we impose on "what enlightenment means". It means no limitations of the self. Once you realise your Self, they say you no longer fear death, I think there's a good reason for that. One can never really truly die. Truth always lives, this I'm sure of.
How you can cut down this tree and not harden your heart... by ridding yourself of all beliefs, including the one that cutting down a tree will harden your heart :).
Just cut it down like anyone else. Being "normal" truly is divine .
Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.
WHen in doubt question beliefs. Always. In fact, just plain question all beliefs, no matter how obvious they seem, until nothing is left, and then go into that nothing. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 05:30:56 AM
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Divineis said:quote:
How you can cut down this tree and not harden your heart... by ridding yourself of all beliefs, including the one that cutting down a tree will harden your heart :).
So where do compassion and love come into the equation, or is this reserved for humans only?
Or if it sands for humans also, is it possible to massacre a bunch of people and maintain an open heart, just because you have abondoned all beliefs? |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 05:35:58 AM
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selfonlypath said: quote:
Trees are very special for shamans to trance into lower world because they have deep roots going down towards earth core.
Yes, I love trees, they are so still and deeply rooted, I get a deep sense of peace and love with them |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 12:13:57 PM
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It is true that death and life are everywhere. Even within us our cells are dying and new ones being born. Our bodies are supposed to be fully replaced with new cells over a period of a year, so they say.
When we walk on the ground we are probably killing millions of tiny creatures. When we purchase a car we are responsible for killing all sorts in the making of that car etc etc etc.
So we go through life like this in a mode of survival and this mode requires quite a lot of killing.
The development of inner silence and awareness though, changes our perception of our environment.
It is this, in my view, that results in us living the so called "normal" life, but in a way that is more harmonious, more compassionate and more loving.
This is reflected in the way we interact with the people around us, with the greater reverence for people, animals, plants, the environment and basically everything that crosses our path. It is a reflection of the reverence and love we have for ourselves.
They say the development of "ahimsa" (non-violence)is the natural consequence of spiritual practice and I can see this happening more in myself as time goes on.
There is a greater awareness of the violence of many of my actions, which could be a simple remark to someone, the blast of a car horn, forgetting to reply to a phone call, even being defensive about posts in this forum
This sort of awareness is the simple fruit of practice and makes living the "normal" life more harmonious, in my view.
I believe it is this sort of awareness that has led to my concern about the tree cutting.
The real question for me I suppose, is whether there is a real need for the the tree to come down and whether I can work something out where I can live in greater harmony with nature in this regard.
The tree also represents all the other things in my life that require this reverence.
When I look at myself, I am a lumbering robot doing the bidding of my conditioned mind, most of the time.
I will always have to "carry water and chop wood" but hopefully not in such a robotic way as before.
quote:
WHen in doubt question beliefs. Always. In fact, just plain question all beliefs, no matter how obvious they seem, until nothing is left, and then go into that nothing.
That's nice Divineis,thank you, what I get in that nothing, is the tree and me are the one love, I need to take stock of that.
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Maatsuah
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 1:24:29 PM
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I read your post and have such sympathy for your plight Sparkle. I love trees as much as you seem to.
I bought a tiny Benjamina Ficus about 11 years ago when it was just a baby at 2 feet high. I have used it in libations rituals and it has moved with me from one house to my new home. It is now about 14 feet tall and so wide it almost dwarfs the sun room where it is located. I cannot even find a pot that is big enough to repot it so I will have to go on the internet and find a pot big enough to replant it.
Around Christmas my husband complained about how big the tree was getting and I decided to trim it. I have trimmed it before, but I usually did so with more compassion and have even asked permssion in my mind before starting. This time I was in a hurry and just got a big pare of scissors and started chopping at the limbs. All hell seemed to break loose. At first the scissors broke and I had to find a big pair of plyers. After a short while sap from some of the upper branches fell into both of my eyes stinging the hell out of them and then the tree fell over on me. This seemed odd because the trunk is very heavy and I do recall pulling on any of the branches hard enough to unbalance the tree to that extent.
My husband heard all the commotion from the basement and had to help me lift the tree and I had to wash my eyes with water for a very long time. They became very inflamed and I had to rest until I could see and the irritation subsided which took hours. As silly as it might seem to some others, I immediately felt as though the tree was angry at the abrupt way it was being handled and retaliated. My husband, who doesn't belive in anything paranormal came into the room later and laughingly suggested that the tree attacked me in self defense. When I told him to shut up he said, I mean it. But I think that he was telling the truth. My husband also said we will have to get rid of it because it is to large but I will never give up my tree. I love it too much.
Amusing antidotes aside, you still have your dilemma to wrestle with. Maybe you could find someone who could uproot and replant the tree. Or maybe you could say a pray to it and promise to plant another tree somewhere in the near future as a compromise. Maybe if you pray over it hard enough you might even find another plase to go yourself.
If you cannot do any of these things it might help to remember that every living thing on this planet is part of the cycle of life and death. Nothing will escape the cycle of being born, living and then dying.
This is the third sphere (Binah) on the tree of life. She governs beginnings and endings. She is also the power aspect of the the tree. Now that I think about it, you yourself examined this very same issue on another thread while talking about a variation of the Samyama technique if I am not mistaken. You discussed saying a sutra and then saying no before the sutra. In other words there is a pause and then the sutra and another pause (a cylce). Maybe a lesson you were examining on the mental level is also playing itself out on the physcial level. We all interfere with life and death on this planet, or cycles, whether we want to think about it or not. You've had to do it many times before, but you are thinking about it more at this time because of your love for trees.
I think if you decide to cut this tree down with the right attitude you will be at peace with your decision in time. You might even want to have something nice, like a chair or table made out of the tree if you feel that strongly about it.
As you can see, I don't have any answers either. I was just brainstorming with you, however, I hope I was of some help. I'll check back later to see what you decided to do. |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 1:32:08 PM
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quote:
The development of inner silence and awareness though, changes our perception of our environment.
It is this, in my view, that results in us living the so called "normal" life, but in a way that is more harmonious, more compassionate and more loving.
This is reflected in the way we interact with the people around us, with the greater reverence for people, animals, plants, the environment and basically everything that crosses our path. It is a reflection of the reverence and love we have for ourselves.
Exactly, the development. There's no need to think about it, it just happens by sticking to your practices. I mean... a certain amount of thinking is needed until you can see through the limitations of it, but then you can drop all that. I don't claim to be above this, I just enjoy reminded myself and others every now and then :).
Spiritual ego is fludging hard to get rid of, I can't say it's all bad, but... like the above, it's gotta be dropped eventually. I myself am guilty of filling my head with belief after belief of how I "should" live. When I say question beliefs, I don't mean get rid of some and replace them with other better ones, I mean question them, destroy them, and don't replace them. Beliefs are what keeps you from being here and now. I mean, with the above belief, can you watch someone shamelessly cut down many trees and still feel compassion for them? Beliefs like that just create what I call spiritual pride or spiritual ego. There's no need to take stock of anything that points to "truth". I'm sure you've heard the zen saying of "a finger pointing to the moon". Taking stock is just getting obsessed with the finger, thus missing the moon.
I'm not saying in not cutting down the tree you have spiritual ego. Don't even focus on what i'm saying. BLoop bleep blop, it's all the same.
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Edited by - Divineis on Mar 18 2008 1:45:07 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 3:44:40 PM
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Louis, just remembered a quote from Barry Long that has helped me very much during my time on my spiritual journey:
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO... DO NOTHING!
Just wait, and life WILL move you in the right direction! Not until you get still and leave all your mind troubles, life can reach you and guide you. So.. do nothing. Wait until the situation solves itself!
Maatsuah, what a wonderful story about the ficus! Reminds me of a cartoon strip I saw once of a person peeling an orange who got a beam of orange juice shooting up right in his eye, with the text below: The orange's revenge. |
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Maatsuah
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2008 : 4:02:38 PM
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| Thanks emc. My husband and I mostly just had a good laugh over the whole thing but Sparkle's post just reminded me of how much I love trees too. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2008 : 2:23:06 PM
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quote:
Dinineis said:Exactly, the development. There's no need to think about it, it just happens by sticking to your practices. I mean... a certain amount of thinking is needed until you can see through the limitations of it, but then you can drop all that. I don't claim to be above this, I just enjoy reminded myself and others every now and then :).
Thanks for the reminder Divineis
Maatsuah
I love your story about the tree
I didn't mention is, but a week prior to the event described above I had gone down to cut the trees down. In the frame of mind I was in "a real doer's frame" hehe!, I would have got stuck in and they would be gone.
However, when I went to start the chain saw I just couldn't get is started. Tried everything but no sign of a kick.
Later at home I had a look at it and discovered there was nothing wrong with it.
So the following weekend I went down and the above is what happened after that. So I took this as a possible sign that I was being informed of something.
I think it is in listening to these signs, which are given to us all the time, and listening to our inner guru, that we can discern our way through.
quote:
Just wait, and life WILL move you in the right direction! Not until you get still and leave all your mind troubles, life can reach you and guide you. So.. do nothing. Wait until the situation solves itself!
Yes, this is what I have done and things are unfolding in different ways, it remains to be seen what will happen
Regardless of what happens this has been a good lesson in "listening", and instead of listening and just carrying on as usual, really listening and integrating it with my life, even if it seems inconvenient
Thanks everyone for your help |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2008 : 2:51:00 PM
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quote:
Regardless of what happens this has been a good lesson in "listening", and instead of listening and just carrying on as usual, really listening and integrating it with my life, even if it seems inconvenient
What a great topic and teaching ... really enjoying the posts.
Maatsuah, I loved your ficus story. As I read it, I remembered a commercial I saw where a tree falls on a guy's car. He calls up his insurance agent, tells the agent what happens and asks if his policy covers it. The agent replied, yes ... but only if its a ficus. So, I guess your covered Maatsuah ...  . Thanks for the story.
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Mar 19 2008 2:56:06 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 2:13:36 PM
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Hi Louis,
If I were you I wouldn’t cut the tree down. I would sell the mobile home and by a smaller one that would fit in next to the tree. If you have such a strong heart connection with the tree, and you want this space to be a space for meditation, wouldn’t it be wonderful to have the tree there near you? Some trees radiate love continuously. With higher sense perception it can be seen as a green light radiating from the trunk several feet from the ground. It would be a blessing for you to have the tree there, and it would be a blessing for the tree to have you there.
Christi
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 2:51:59 PM
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Hi Christi
We're on the same wavelength
I won't be taking that tree down. When I go there now it feels a lot different, like I am walking amongst friends, we have a new relationship which is really nice
Blessings
Louis |
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Maatsuah
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2008 : 3:51:26 PM
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Hi Christi
That was a great idea. Sparkle obviously has developed an affinity for this tree. How many of us can say we have a tree for a friend, I mean a personal tree.
I don't want to get to mushy about it. I mean, I don't have tea and cookies with my tree, but I do consider it my friend.
By the way Steve, I did see that commericial and thought it was funnier than before after your post. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2008 : 03:18:42 AM
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Just want to chime in with another tree story:
A few months after the cancer operation back in 1996 we were going up to the cabin in the Norwegian mountains. I was broken open by overwhelming fear and physical pain and my senses were acute. About 10 min before the final ascending towards the site we pass an old oak tree. I had passed this tree on our way to the cabin for almost 10 years - enjoying the seasonal change of colors. The tree always seemed such a beautiful welcoming presence - yet I had never stopped to be close to it. It grew on private property right next to a house, so it would have ment trespassing.
Anyway - this particular day I saw that there was an old man with a walking stick coming out the door of the house. We passed the tree and drove on. "Please stop" I said to my husband at the time. "Please stop......I want to meet this tree". My daughters (5 and 8 at the time) looked at me with large eyes (you know...."oh....grea,this is new"-type of look). They waited in the car and I walked over to the old man. He was almost without teeth and could hardly hear - but when he understood that I asked for permission to touch his oak tree....he broke into a wonderful, toothless grin and begun to tell the story of the tree......it was 250 years old and had survived everything around it . Before he entered his house again he said: "You can stay as long as you want ".
So I did. I walked up towards the enormous trunk.....put my arms around it (I felt like a tiny stamp)....and silently asked for permisson to climb the tree. About half way up I found a branch that fitted nicely with my body....and I simply leaned into it and stayed like that for a long, long time. I cried and cried......the tree took and took (it seemed to have an endless capacity for unburdening my soul) - and in the end I could not tell the difference between the tree and myself. Everything became quiet in a way I had never experienced before.
It was so profound......I couldn't speak about it for years. Nobody said anything when I got back into the car.....they must have sensed the silence.
Ever since that day - whenever we went to the cabin - the girls and I would open the car windows to "drink oak power/love" when we passed by. So even though I now don't go there anymore (since the divorce last year) - my children do, and they keep greeting the tree.
I guess I will just have to bond with another tree soon
It is the nicest doctor I have ever been to |
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Problem cutting down trees
