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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 24 2010 : 10:32:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chsmithe
Thank you! See i would loove to be so-called liberated and just kind of not be in everyone's face about it. And this seems natural since being in everyone's face about it sounds very "egoic".
Like i would love to be in the sort of position that Adyashanti is in, rather than the position that Christ put himself in.
My question is, why would Christ do that? Why would he go around preaching and saying all these things that basically set himself up for his own crucifixion?
But yea just for some reason i've had this very sort of archetypal fear about being too much on the "savior" side of things and just pissing off the wrong people. It's not like i even want to do this, it's just i've feared that i would just sort of stumble upon this situation somehow.
Hi Cbsmithe,
You're welcome. "Liberation" or "enlightenment", or anything else that the simple living from our true fulfilled nature might be called is (literally) "more normal than normal" .... because it's not all mucked up (any longer) with all our conflict-generating and confusion-generating thoughts and feelings.
For instance, I have a "passing acquaintance" with one of Adyashanti's teachers (one of the enlightened people who helped Adyashanti get enlightened) ... again, literally. As in: she and I used to pass each other at Adyashanti's satsangs (talks/spiritual meetings, if you don't know the term), and I got to know her a bit when we both volunteered at Adyashanti's office.
Her name is Arvis Justi, and she's a sweet, little old lady that no one would ever guess is enlightened, necessarily (meaning: she doesn't fit the "picture" that many people have of "enlightened person").
Many of us, early on the path, figure that the enlightened people are the well-known teachers, though probably not all of them (which is certainly true). What we don't understand is that the majority of enlightened people aren't teaching in the big public ways that we tend to mentally associate with enlightenment, when we first learn of spirituality; most liberated/enlightened just doing their thing in a low-key way.
The only real difference between enlightenment and "not", is that, in enlightenment, there's simple, conscious harmonizing with the flowing of living ... as opposed to all the artificial resistance that conditioned ego-thoughts kick up.
It usually takes some practice-time to create the purification in our neurophysiology and psychology for this to be possible ... and that's what daily practices are for.
Concerning Jesus, your guess is as good as mine, really, though I can see some potential reasons (why Jesus ended up being crucified).
For instance, modern leaders such as Gandhi and Martin Luther King felt guided to speak truth and work for truth in a certain way, and by dropping into the flowing of living ... they dropped the artificial self-concern for survival of the body-mind, that causes ego-mind to try to protect its ideas of itself.
Both of these men (Gandhi, King), said many times before they died ... that if they were killed doing their work ... "so be it"; they weren't worried about it; they had bigger things to deal with than the continuation of a single body-mind.
Maybe Jesus looked at it in the same way.
Also, per King's and Gandhi's assassinations, and even some of the violent or near-violent incidents we can all read about or see on the news, every day .... people get violent about ideas very, very quickly. In Jesus' time, this may have been even more true.
And so, as a Rabbi teaching anything than pure Torah Law, Reb Yehoshuah was likely controversial enough to cause the conservative factions (the Pharisees and Sadducees described in the Bible) of ruling Jewish councils (the Sanhedrin) to be quite upset ... in the same way that many conservative Christians didn't care for the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., or that many conservative Hindus didn't care for Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi. Conservative forces don't like change ....... that's why they're called "conservative".
Finally, and I realize this is a controversial idea for some, and I mention it just as a possibility: in terms of historical record, we can't be 100% sure that all the events of Jesus' life happened literally and historically as described in the Bible, nor can we be 100% sure that the Gospel authors intended them to be taken that way. Every facet of Jesus' life works as symbolic instruction, as well as historical.
What I've found useful with questions like that, is to ask: how does it help me to be more conscious, present and loving right now?
Awareness of the symbolism of Christ as clarified mind, which connects the original awareness of our true nature (the Father), with the diversity of the manifested world (the Holy Spirit/Mother) .... does help me to do this.
Asking conceptual questions about why something might have happened a certain way, especially when we don't know, and presumably can't know (unless some highly credible, new historical evidence is discovered) whether or not is happened historically at all .... doesn't help me do this ... and so, I didn't pay a lot of attention to those things, as I moved along my spiritual path.
I sure used to, though; the fact that these things are on your mind is very normal ..... I'm just sharing a couple of tips that helped me use the "spiritual consideration" thoughts that came up, more productively farther along in my spiritual journey .. in case these tips might save you, or others, some time and energy, as well.
Basically: thoughts and feelings about anything tend to be a distraction.
Sure, they happen ... but they're not important to focus on.
Daily practices, presence, loving .... these are the things that facilitate liberation.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
PS- Basically, it's all pretty simple ....... all you've gotta do is cast the torch into the lake ..... ahh ...... *peaceful* (maybe only for a moment .... but as long as it's this moment, now .... it's eternal .... you know ..... kind of like ... a Peaceful Apocalypse).
PPS- And for anyone who may think that Kirtanman has finally lost it ..... or finally lost it completely ......  ... click on the link in Cbsmithe's profile, and check out his band's music player ...... |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Apr 24 2010 10:48:27 PM |
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chsmithe
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2010 : 11:32:19 PM
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hahahaha wow i totally just had one of those really eerie void of existence moments there for a second when i was reading all those things you were saying about Peaceful Apocalypse. I would have really been disoriented if you didn't mention my band link because i forgot that i put it in my profile.
Basically, i thought for a split second that some higher universal consciousness was communicating to me simply because i was puzzled about how you would know about casting torches into lakes.   |
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chsmithe
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2012 : 12:03:38 PM
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"Promises of individual enlightenment by such-and-such a time are not a good idea either."
I think this is funny, and i would completely agree with what you said, but i find it interesting that Adyashanti himself said that he received a piece of information once early on in his life that he would die at the age of 25, and he had no idea what it meant, but that turned out to be the year of his first Awakening.
Now that it is 2012, i feel that this year is my version of that same thing. And i feel that it's quite valid to talk about since there has been a lot of discussion of a future New Age of enlightenment for humanity. There's nothing that's more in tune with that idea than the 2012 and Dec. 21st phenomena.
For whatever reason, something within me from a very early age told me that something huge was going to happen in my life. Later on, about 6 years ago, it manifested into the 2012 idea. For whatever reason a huge light bulb went off within me and i just knew that in some way 2012 was going to be a huge year, if not for humanity then at the very least for me personally (but aren't they one and the same?).
I guess we'll find out, now that we are here. All i can say is that i do feel that my spiritual path is reaching a certain apex in this year. The first 10 days of it have been profound and intense for me, in good and in bad ways. I feel like this is the year where i completely break down and transform, but there will be a lot of difficulty along the way. It's an epic year and i have high hopes for the 2012 vision of humanity as well. |
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Adyashanti Interview in The Sun
