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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - May 17 2008 : 7:17:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
This might explain why kunlun does not recommend kundalini yoga because it would bring ascending kundalini together with descending kundalini into the central channel (sushumna) which can be very dangerous if the vessel is not purified enough.
Hi Albert 
Did you mean "ascending kundalini together with descending kunlun into the central channel" ?
TI |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2008 : 11:34:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Formerly that would have been true, but this is exactly what Yogani has discovered; how to use that powerful energy safely. See the "main Lessons" above. Don't let the simplicity and ease of use fool you!
The body has built-in mechanisms to make sure not only that the purification takes place first, but "self pacing" for when we start to get out of balance. Some systems have accidently bypassed these safety mechanisms by "tweaking" the wrong things through chakra or crown emphasis instead of simply letting the body do its thing.
Hi Etherfish,
I don't understand your answer to my previous post because I was not talking about AYP here but only Kunlun having in mind that i respect AYP wisdom otherwise I would not be on this forum eventhough i don't practice AYP as of today.
My previous post meant that Mantra68 is saying something false in claiming it is not possible to pack chi which in fact contradicts kunlun itself since it requires empowerment ! In other words, there is a copyright issue between Toledo and Mantra68 but this should not allow Mantra68 claim publicly pack chi is bullsh*t.
I was also trying to give a possible explanation of why kunlun does not recommend kundalini yoga practice once starting kunlun practice.
Do you happen to practice kunlun ?
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Albert
Did you mean "ascending kundalini together with descending kunlun into the central channel" ?
Hi TI,
Yes and no: let us forget about labels kundalini or kunlun which tricks the ego. There are many ways or systems to awaken spiritual energy into a human vessel. It always comes down to feel then cultivate at some point an energy going up and an energy going down which ultimately will fuse bringing non-duality awareness via dissolving the winds into the central channel.
P.S. Some very dangerous systems awaken both at the same time but Kunlun or AYP do not fall in this category. These other systems are even more dangerous by not dissolving the winds first into navel chakra which is known to be the safest gate to do this as taught by tibetan schools, chi kung (lower dan tien), quechua shamanism (qosqo),...
Sorry, the subject is difficult to explain and i'm french so do not master clear english.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on May 18 2008 02:55:14 AM |
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satyalok
12 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 09:37:04 AM
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Albert,
I registered when I noticed you belong to the Tirth lineage and may also be practicing Kunlun. I am an initiate in the same lineage and have done some kunlun meditations as well. I am curious about the connection of kundalini automatic "yogic" movements and the spontaneous "qigong" movements apparent in in the kunlun practice.
So far I have a few movements that are unique when I do kunlun (fajin "whipping" arm movements, jumping, running), and other manifestations that are the same as my yogic kriya movements. In fact, the yoga kriyas often overtake the practice and I'm not sure if I can delineate where kunlun stops and yoga kriyas begin...except that I've had the yoga kriyas for years (mantra, mudra, familiar flows of energy).
Also, alot of experiences ppl describe in kunlun are similar to what I've had over the years doing sadhan. I wonder if they lead to the same awakening of Shakti (internalization of consciousness).
I would be interested in the results of your experience, since you have the same lineage energy flowing in you.
Sincerely,
Gordon |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 4:23:27 PM
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Hello Gordon,
Kunlun interests me because I'm trying to connect to pre-bonpo systems and shamanic qigong but I cannot answer your questions because I do not practice Kunlun so all my observations came from this thread versus my personal practice of Tirth along with other systems I also practice.
I find very interesting your self-experience of both Tirth and Kunlun which seems to confirm what I felt intellectually in this thread:
- Tirth is kriya yogic whereas kunlun is more qigong
- they are very similar because it is hard for you to delineate where kunlun stops and yoga kriya starts
As for pack chi issue raised by Mantra68 who is Max's assistant, Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirth clearly explains this mechanism in his book "Yoga Vani" applied for example to an animated mantra (the same book was used by Swami Muktananda).
In Shakti, Albert |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 5:17:31 PM
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| Why are you trying to connect kunlun to pre-bonpo systems and shamanic qigong? |
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satyalok
12 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 7:03:06 PM
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Albert,
The SYDA (Muktananda lineage) also give a version of shaktipat from a video cassette. I knew someone who had transfer of shakti that way. I opted for the "in person" approach.
This individual offers a free shaktipat via a prayer request. He is a disciple of Swami Loknath Tirth:
http://www.kundalinishaktipatayoga.net
Sincerely,
Gordon |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 12:45:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by satyalok
The SYDA (Muktananda lineage) also give a version of shaktipat from a video cassette. I knew someone who had transfer of shakti that way. I opted for the "in person" approach.
Hey Gordon,
Of course, it is always best and safer to receive Shaktipat in person but many persons cannot travel so it is a blessing Godess taught some of us the capacity to Shaktipat at distance using whatever media modern technology offer.
FYI, I'm born with a slight form of Shaktipat and when I realized the danger if not done correctly, i requested support from Tirth lineage. After a long odyssey in looking for Tirth which is a very secret sect, Swami SadaShiva Tirth in NY brought me infinite support along with Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirth animated book:
http://swaminarayantirtha.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhayoga
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutz...ahayoga.html
Would you be Ok to mention who is your Tirth guru ?
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Why are you trying to connect kunlun to pre-bonpo systems and shamanic qigong?
Hey Scott,
Unfortunately, Tirth rejects Shamanism and left hand tantra which are also part of my reality since I was born as well as the slight form of Shaktipat. Different tantrik-shamans helped me diagnosed that my energy system is not tibetan so my difficulty is connecting to the lineage who iniated me in my previous life where Bonpo and shamanic qigong are keepers of this lineage but not the source.
I was hoping Kunlun would help my quest...
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on May 19 2008 01:53:31 AM |
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satyalok
12 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 06:18:33 AM
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Albert,
My Guru is Swami ShivMangal Tirth, disciple of Swami Shivom Tirth. Swami Shivom Tirth is exceedingly prolific in published information on the lineage, "Guide to Shaktipat" being one of the best intros to our path. If you haven't heard, Swami Shivom Tirth passed away recently. He has one more book to be published on event of his death. It describes the Guru's beyond Gangadhar Tirth that he has perceived spiritually.
I have not received anything in the way of restriction in my practices, but then I was told whatever I do..just to maintain my hour of sadhan. Other practices could be done at different times (hence my experiments with kunlun).
The Guru that remotes shaktipat toured US recently...he stayed with Kurt Keutzer (the kundalini FAQ guy). Kurt has been involved with our lineage.
Sincerely,
Gordon |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 07:05:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by satyalok
My Guru is Swami ShivMangal Tirth, disciple of Swami Shivom Tirth. Swami Shivom Tirth is exceedingly prolific in published information on the lineage, "Guide to Shaktipat" being one of the best intros to our path. If you haven't heard, Swami Shivom Tirth passed away recently. He has one more book to be published on event of his death. It describes the Guru's beyond Gangadhar Tirth that he has perceived spiritually.
Hey Gordon,
Oh, i'm so sad to hear Swami Shivom Tirth died. I've read some of his books which are brilliant. Please note that Swami Shankar Purushottam gave a special initiation to Swami Shivom Tirth. I also have a book written by Swami ShivMangal Tirth.
quote:
I have not received anything in the way of restriction in my practices, but then I was told whatever I do..just to maintain my hour of sadhan. Other practices could be done at different times (hence my experiments with kunlun).
Yes you're right, Swami SadaShiva Tirth does not restrict me to practice left hand tantra and shamanism but it is just that he does not acknowledge shamanism which he considers black magic. About left hand tantra, Swamiji knows I'm married to a Saint and we have 2 beautiful children.
quote:
The Guru that remotes shaktipat toured US recently...he stayed with Kurt Keutzer (the kundalini FAQ guy). Kurt has been involved with our lineage.
I know a little bit Kurt who helped me reconnect with Tirth lineage back in 2004-2005.
In Shakti, Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on May 19 2008 07:59:12 AM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2008 : 8:07:02 PM
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Ahhhh an update...
This is the greatest thing in the world to me. I almost feel bad for saying that Max was weird in my review of the seminar, because I'm truly greatful that he shares these practices. I can't wait to attend another seminar...open up more, learn more, etc! Plus it's good to be around others who practice the same thing...kunlun comrades.
That's all.  |
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 7:49:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Ahhhh an update...
This is the greatest thing in the world to me. I almost feel bad for saying that Max was weird in my review of the seminar, because I'm truly greatful that he shares these practices. I can't wait to attend another seminar...open up more, learn more, etc! Plus it's good to be around others who practice the same thing...kunlun comrades.
That's all.
Nice post Scott. I understand how you feel!
AugustLeo |
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seekeroftruth
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 12:57:33 AM
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I agree with Scott. Max is really, really, REALLY strange. I kinda get put off by all the pseudoscience that he throws around, but I'm still very grateful to him for holding the seminar and teaching the kunlun and red phoenix practices.
Now, if I could only get the kunlun to work ... |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 01:06:30 AM
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| Good to hear, Scott! I was just about to ask you if you have experienced any overload symptoms since the seminar. My experience from being with really present teachers is that you don't get any overload symptoms. They sort of smooth things out for you, so there's no risk. What's your experience on that? |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 11:34:16 AM
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Seekeroftruth,
How does kunlun not work for you?
EMC,
I feel pretty good! In the first week after the seminar things were kind of intense, because I would get nausea and a lot of fear would come up. I'd get really disoriented. I had to cut down my practice times. One day I could only go like 10 minutes before I felt like puking. Once it took a few hours afterwards to ground the magnetic feeling, and I was stumbling around. Now things have really evened out! I get a lot of energy flow and can feel the "water path" aspect of this greatly (that means my pineal is getting pumped full of juice!)
I don't know if it's being around Max that evens things out. This energy isn't like kundalini (at least that's my opinion, still)...so it's not the same kind of feeling you get with k overload. The fact that we ground the energy in the dan tien seems to really help with any lingering energy issues. After a practice session is done I feel refreshed and totally normal.
The red phoenix practice kind of scared me at first, because of what I had learned in AYP. I was at the seminar thinking, "You want me to actually work with the crown? No way jose." But I decided to trust the teacher, and after a month of doing it every day, it hasn't been a problem for me at all. In fact, the practice seems to go hand in hand with kunlun. Red phoenix kind of shows kunlun the way, and kunlun helps balance red phoenix so energy isn't getting stuck in the head. At least that's my experience.
But yeah back to the point of your question! I have no idea if being around Max helps against overload symptoms. I tend to think that people wouldn't get overloaded too much from this...but then again, Cam from the taobums forum has occassionally felt too spacey and wanted to take some time off. He's been doing it 9 months now. So we'll see what happens. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 2:34:59 PM
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Thanks for reporting! I have some difficulties seeing how Life Force can be so distinctly separated - kunlun vs kundalini - but it's interesting to hear about your experiences. To me, it's all ki/qi/chi, prana - life force whatever flavour it comes in, but I haven't tried kunlun, so...
I have only seen one of Max's videos, and was a bit astonished to notice that some of the automatic movements that happens to the people, like waving their arms vigorously, shaking etc, happens sometimes with people around me when IT is moving through me during spiritual exercises, for example during The Form or when my right palm starts beaming energy towards someone. I don't have a clue what type of energy it is, I couldn't tell since I don't feel the flavour of it at all. I just "hold" the energy, and the person may get all kinds of experiences.
Once it scared my mom quite a bit when she came out from the kitchen and saw this guy waving his arms round and round, giggling and having the greatest orgasms ever in his spine (what he told me afterwards). She's always been a sceptic to what I'm doing, so I had to invite her to try it as well. We had a beautiful moment when she just let go. Her eyes filled with tears of bliss and her arms slowly stretched out by automatic movements and she looked like an eagle gliding through the air... After that she no longer hesitated about the authenticity of my practices and got really curious.
Now she can watch videos like Max's and don't get scared. Own experience is really the key to understanding! So it's also wonderful to read about all your experiences with Max! He seem quite lunatic, though, and your stories here only confirm that impression. Wonderfully weird! LOL! I like the guy! |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 10:54:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by seekeroftruth
Now, if I could only get the kunlun to work ...
Hi seekeroftruth
Kunlun is about smiling, forgetting the mind, relaxing and letting go. I'm sure you'll get it soon.
What I would recommend is this: When you sit on the stool, start your legs bouncing voluntarily. Make them go up and down and then, after 5 minutes of consciously making them bounce up and down, start to relax. Just let go more and more until you are no longer participating in the cause of the movement. The more you let go, the more they will bounce on their own. It also helps if you lean slightly forward or rotate your pelvis slightly forward putting more weight and pressure on your legs.
I know in the book it says if kunlun doesn't start up, then you should slowly rotate your torso in a clockwise motion. I've tried it that way and to a small degree it does start the flow in the upper body but not like starting from the feet (for me).
I'm sure you will get it very soon.
TI |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 12:26:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
I have some difficulties seeing how Life Force can be so distinctly separated - kunlun vs kundalini - but it's interesting to hear about your experiences. To me, it's all ki/qi/chi, prana - life force whatever flavour it comes in,...
I feel the same way as emc !
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satyalok
12 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 07:00:37 AM
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I have felt no difference in the energy of kunlun than my kundalini mahayoga. To me it's all internalized "divine" consciousness that moves the limbs, circulates the prana, and initiates various experiences. I think the framework of Indian tantra does a better job of explaining the entire mechanism, for those that like explanations. We should end up at the same place in the end .
Sincerely,
Gordon |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 10:03:33 AM
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Hi All:
I don't see the distinction between kunlun energy and kundalini either. Are chi and prana different? Not likely. Only in the utilization...
The physical movements experienced in kunlun are not unique, except there is more emphasis on them as practice than in yoga. This may be in line with the martial roots of Taoist practices versus the more consciousness oriented roots of Yoga.
Which raises the question again about the long term cultivation of inner silence in kunlun, and in Taoist practices in general. It is addressed in a few Taoist schools (with deep meditation style practice), but not many. The question is whether it is addressed in kunlun. It is an essential point with long term implications for the practitioner.
Here are two previous posts on these matters I did in this topic way back when:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#30277
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#30194
The suggestion is to temper enthusiasm for the dramatic experiences and look for stillness rising in daily activity. The former is mostly a passing show. If the latter is coming, then the path has real merit.
A few more cents from the yogic point of view, for whatever they might be worth.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 6:07:56 PM
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To be honest, it's hard to know much about the details of the kunlun practice without attending a seminar. The transmission is really where the practice takes off, and the book just doesn't have that, but gives great instructions for building your own energy so it's possibly at the same level as the transmission. That might take some time before a book practitioner can feel the same level of magnetism as a seminar practitioner. Of course, some are more open than others and can get really far from the book, and some (like me) are more closed off even after attending a seminar...so who knows.
But anyway, seekeroftruth has been to the seminar and gotten the transmission. I saw him! It's possible that it's "not working" because his body is purified enough now so that there's no more kinks, or that he needs to build even more energy. I have no clue.
My suggestion, based on what works for me, is to practice the "gun slinger" standing (I Jong) technique for a good 20 minutes before practicing kunlun, like we did at the seminar. That really gets the legs open, so they can do the shaking thing which generates more of the specific magnetic energy of kunlun. Drinking coffee (if you don't already) helps me. So does celibacy, and all the suggestions in the book...like using the animal fur mat under your feet.
And then when you're in the position, relax your muscles, and just allow your body to move if it does...and yeah smile and all that, which you already know.
About whether kunlun energy is the same as all other types...I don't know! I think the goal is the same in both AYP and kunlun. All my experience tells me is that the practices and their effects differ slightly...could it be the same thing at the root? Probably! Here this is what Max said about "what is the kunlun energy" on the taobums forum...
quote:
What is Kunlun? It is the one sympathetic vibration that connects every living thing in the seen and unseen world. It is the one law as the essence of unconditional love and compassion. It bridges space, time, energy and matter. The shaman see it as a glowing spiderweb of living brightness, or the glue that gives connectivity to all things within the great mystery.
Kunlun is a practice that allows us to express our individuality with total freedom of body, mind and spirit.
Kunlun isn't power, it isn't something to be harnessed within the body, rather it is a free flowing essence, giving the practitioner understanding of this one law, to enjoy life for what it is, to become compassionate towards self and others, to become the drop of individuality that merges with the ocean of wisdom.
Kunlun is the natural essence of our being, free of obstruction, it emanates through us from the source and empowers us through personal interaction with each other. It is direct experience with the Tao. It is personal and subjective. Once you are tapped into it, amazing thing begin to happen.
My understanding may be different or not in perfect relation with others, but it doesn't matter, what's important is the effect of its virtues on you.
I am just a simple person, still seeking to understand the Tao. I don't consider myself a master, nor do I call myself "teacher," I just like to be friends with others on the path, through compassion for those seeking the greatness within themselves.
What is Kunlun? only you can answer.
Max
So yeah...haha. |
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 7:00:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The guru is in you.
This best sums up the practice of Kunlun. |
Edited by - AugustLeo on May 29 2008 7:16:52 PM |
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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 8:50:13 PM
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I think we should do what we feel comfortable with, I think the best way to evaluate the teachings of kunlun is to empty your cup, and try doing just that practice alone, and see what happens.
Only through experience or intuitive means can one truly reveal the efficacy of any system of alchemy. |
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seekeroftruth
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 02:08:42 AM
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Scott, when you said that I was so purified that Kunlun doesn't work for me, I nearly laughed. I've been meditating for less than a year, have never had any spiritual experiences, and kind of stumbled into AYP and kunlun. TibetanIce and Scott: thanks for your suggestions. I'm trying them out.
As for whether the practice addresses inner silence, I should have asked Max. But, it's kind of late. 
People on the forums seem to be saying that kunlun has caused them to be more silent and still. I don't know how it works, but that's what they say. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 10:23:47 AM
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| Haha |
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