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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 14 2008 : 9:14:34 PM
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Jim,
In The Biology of Kundalini website Jana Dixon recommends, among many, many other things, to get out in nature, lie in the open ground with the spine in contact with the earth, nude sunbathe, swim in fresh water, lie in grass, run in the mountains. That web page has a huge amount of information, some of which I found helpful. She's quite a character.
I live in a cold part of the country and lying in grass won't happen for a while but I did recently find great relief in lying on a bed of dried leaves in a forest by a river, gazing up at the tall trees and sky. Also, the contact of leaning against giant old oaks was helpful. They seem to transmit a soothing presence, maybe wisdom.
I haven't felt as much relief from rocks, but I understand why sitting or lying on rock formations could be very grounding. I felt refreshed from meditating near a large waterfall, but the energy was more invigorating than grounding. Long slow walks on hiking trails or on a deserted beach seem to be best. The further the distance from any metropolitan area, the better. I have found that complete isolation helps connect me to the earth because there are fewer distractions. That will only work if you're comfortable being alone, otherwise isolation will be a stressor.
I hope you can take some time off for a grounding vacation. Even a day or two would really make a big difference.
aum namaste,
Joe
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2008 : 11:04:16 AM
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Eitherway,
It's too new for us taobums to review as well, but we'd love to see you up there if you feel like going. There isn't any info on the medicine Kunlun anywhere.
I'm finding a nice relationship between meditation and Kunlun and I think that a healthy ongoing relationship can be had between spinal breathing and Kunlun/Red Phoenix practice, but that's just a guess at this point.
I'm very excited about Kunlun as I was never able to get spinal breathing off the ground to my satisfaction and I think it fills that niche for me. (Just a guess at this point that they are doing similar things.)
Be sure to check out the video and radio interview of Max on his site. That'll help you get a flavor of him to help you decide if it's right for you.
Yoda |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2008 : 12:23:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Eitherway
Ok, I know that it hasn't been very long since ayp was introduced to Max's Kunlun practice but I was wondering what if any conclusions are being drawn about this path. Is it worth pursuing or at this point just continue with the wonderful Ayp practices or better yet is there a way to take the best from Kunlun and add safely to our core ayp practice of deep meditation.
Dear Yogani, what is your advice on this at this point??
Hi again Eitherway:
I just recalled this post from earlier in this topic:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#30277
A better answer to your question than the last one. The best I can do under the circumstances. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2008 : 10:38:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brushjw
I hope you can take some time off for a grounding vacation. Even a day or two would really make a big difference.
Actually, it's been my primary pursuit for the past year. I saw writing on the wall that I 1. had a truly massive block, and 2. it was starting to affect my health. Actually, I have, in various ways, been working on grounding since I was a teen, and got bad headaches at crown practicing microcosmic orbit. The trapped energy at the time caused TMJ and some other problems.
You can read this thread: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296
for a chronicle of this year's efforts, which have finally resulted, this week, in a defiant end to the problem, per my post on page 3 of that thread, here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=3#32731
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 17 2008 10:58:05 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2008 : 4:09:29 PM
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Hey guys,
I'm still going to the seminar...if anyone else is going and has room in their hotel or wants to split the cost of a room, or lives near there and has a 6'x2' floor space they are willing to share, let me know! Money is tight, especially with the drive from Wisconsin.
I've tried to post on taobums for the roll call, but for some reason I'm retarded, so thank you Yoda for mentioning me! |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2008 : 7:10:38 PM
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| Well I've reserved a double bed room, if anyone needs a place to stay. I'll just ask for 75 bucks or something, since the room rates are quite high. |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2008 : 10:32:41 AM
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Hi Scott and Yoda,
Unfortunately, I won't be seeing you at the kunlun workshop in jersey. Decided to go to Amma's thing in Maryland in May and also the Gnan Vidhi with Deepakbhai (June). I hope your trip to Jersey is fruitful. Please report back with your experiences if possible. Oh yeah, I saw that the medicine kunlun was cancelled. Could either one of you please ask Max what that is about. Thanks, look forward to learning more about Kunlun. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2008 : 12:06:33 PM
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| Too bad, Eitherway. Maybe another time if it seems like a good thing to do! I will definitely report back on this one. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2008 : 10:02:33 PM
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So I'm at the hotel after the first day of the seminar. It was kind of nice, Max met with the Tao Bums group (which I was a part of - they're all great nice people) after the seminar and taught us some different things...he talks a LOT. I don't know what to make of him. Some of the things he says are really off the wall, and being a skeptical person, I tend to want to run the other way. To give you an example, for anyone who has read the book, the part about the story of the girl praying to the thunder god...etc...that kind of stuff turns me off. He's filled with those types of stories. I like real and practical things. Not tall tales. I don't like to take leaps of faith, especially when it comes to believing another human being. No one is perfect, by far. So my point is that I don't trust him.
Another strange thing was when Max would move people from a distance (this was during the tao bums part), "playing" with kunlun energies, he would whisper something. I asked him about it and he kind of seemed to avoid the answer, by saying that it was just "taoist magic". So that kind of freaks me out a bit. I'm thinking to myself, "why does kunlun energy need a mantra recited??" Eh, I decided not to press the issue.
Also, to be affected and do spontaneous movements at a distance, like in the videos, you need to be pretty open. So a person may remain skeptical despite seeing it in person, and seeing it happen to other people that are attending the seminar for their first time...until it happens to them. I am still skeptical because it hasn't happened to me.
The main positive thing I've gotten from this so far is kunlun opening more. I never really got too much on my own, especially since I'm not the type to be celibate, but in the seminar I opened up more and moved around a lot more. Someone came by and touched me a couple of times...I don't really know what they were doing, or even who it was since I had my eyes closed, but it seemed that a short time after they'd have done that I would open up more. I'm sure that the spontaneous movements are truly that, and not just legs being tired...because I started turning far left and right in my chair pretty fast. Really interesting.
Haha, it was so strange to hear more than half of the room laughing hysterically and crying. Some people fell out of their chairs onto the floor...big reactions were happening.
I felt energized after all the practices today. I felt good, and also grounded. I also felt cold...mostly because of the weather. Max did say something about with these practices, you shouldn't drink cold stuff in cold weather or let the wind touch your skin too much because it'll make you TOO cold. Well after everything today, I was FREEZING. I ended up wearing a t shirt, sweater, sweatshirt and a jacket and then finally felt pretty good.
Ummm...well, here are the things we've covered so far (both in the seminar and the tao bums group thing):
I Jong (I think it's called that...it's for general grounding)
Red Phoenix (this is kind of like spinal breathing in the sense that it's a feeling practice, but it's more of a third eye and crown practice...I didn't get much from it)
Kunlun level 1 (duh)
Secret of the Golden Flower (this seems to intensify kunlun energy after it's activated)
Standing 5 Elements (for grounding and balancing the internal organs)
Kunlun Bagua (a martial arts form that's apparently specific to Max)
So yeah, a lot of stuff was covered in one day. I LOVED the standing 5 elements. Made me feel great.
Anyway, I'll report back in a few days. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 03:07:25 AM
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WOW, so after driving halfway home and making it into my hotel I decided to do an evening kunlun session. Holy crap I opened up even more and started getting into "headbanger" movements. This is a for real practice, which is great. It's not kundalini.
Grounding with kunlun is a piece of cake (literally?). Just eat something if you haven't for a while, or do I Jong. I felt kind of spacey after the seminar, and lunch made everything better. That wasn't so with kundalini. For me, at least, the unbalanced energies from kundalini were too much to handle and nothing that I did helped. With kunlun, I am balanced and grounded and also able to think totally clearly.
Kunlun is a lot faster to activate. With kundalini the process orginally took months to finally get going. With kunlun, most people get going right at the seminar. It's all about your state of mind, and how you're viewing things. If you're striving for some kind of reaction, or wishing for it, then you're not feeling the body and letting it move where it wants. So anyway, that's another difference - kunlun is actually very fast.
Anyway, Max showed us more stuff today...
Spirit Travel methods for night and day (nothing happened for me personally, but at least one tao bum had an experience)
Kunlun Running (I forgot the actual name he said this practice was, but it's where you go into a certain posture and then get pulled along an energy line of the earth where you point and focus)
He talked a little bit about various medicine practices, (one about how to heal eyes by dropping one drop of raw honey in each and also talked about how drinking room temperature lemon water where the water came from a mountain is best for you)
How to charge up a drink with kunlun energy
5 Elements wine (red wine mixed with this chinese thing which I don't know how to spell and lemon juice)
How to charge up and shoot kunlun through someone who is already open, or to pull it out of them
Laughter QiGong (basically just opening up the body towards laughter, by forcing yourself to laugh...but there's a little more to it than that)
Red Dragon (a "forbidden" "secret" and whatnot practice, which is about visualizations of a reverse microcosmic orbit, which apparently makes kunlun manifest physically...or something?)
Reverse Breathing (a simple refinement on embryonic breathing which increases the effects of all the practices)
Spit swallowing (he taught refinements on the practice talked about in taoist alchemy)
So yeah that's a lot of info for 2 days. It was gracious of Max to spend the extra hours with the tao bums...kind of like a free private session! Also, travelling, renting hotel rooms, and conference rooms costs a lot...300 dollars is actually a good deal. So despite me thinking Max is weird as hell, it's definitely worth checking this out. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 06:55:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
WOW, so after driving halfway home and making it into my hotel I decided to do an evening kunlun session. Holy crap I opened up even more and started getting into "headbanger" movements. This is a for real practice, which is great. It's not kundalini.
Grounding with kunlun is a piece of cake (literally?). Just eat something if you haven't for a while, or do I Jong. I felt kind of spacey after the seminar, and lunch made everything better. That wasn't so with kundalini. For me, at least, the unbalanced energies from kundalini were too much to handle and nothing that I did helped. With kunlun, I am balanced and grounded and also able to think totally clearly.
Kunlun is a lot faster to activate. With kundalini the process orginally took months to finally get going. With kunlun, most people get going right at the seminar. It's all about your state of mind, and how you're viewing things. If you're striving for some kind of reaction, or wishing for it, then you're not feeling the body and letting it move where it wants. So anyway, that's another difference - kunlun is actually very fast.
Hey Scott,
I'm again a bit lost when you write "it is not kundalini",...
Another question: does Kunlun has techniques for rooting versus grounding ?
Thx for sharing all this with us, Albert
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Edited by - selfonlypath on May 05 2008 08:46:48 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 1:32:50 PM
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Hi Scott :)
Thank you very much for posting on this topic. I really appreciate reading about your experiences with kunlun.
Did you get any documentation of the various practices from the seminar? Were there handouts or instructional guides?
TI |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 2:15:01 PM
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Scott,
It was great to meet you! Great writeup, btw. I'd concur: Max is constantly laying down one hard to believe story after the next. I'm totally fine with it, but I can appreciate that it's a turn off for many. Also the practice is waaaaaaaaaay cool.
Your pal,
Yoda
PS, About the headbanger thing, keep the motion within your comfort level. |
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 9:43:23 PM
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Hi,
I've been following this thread for a while and decided to chime in with my thoughts on the topic.
I think it's wonderful that there is such diversity of practice available to all of us.
I'm a big fan of Yogani. He's done so much to make advanced practices available to all of us. Thank you, Yogani. I have all of your books. You do us all such a great service .
By way of introduction, I'm a Kunlun practitioner and a Taobum. Though I've been reading the AYP forum and have been a member for a while, this is my first AYP post. I'm almost 58 years old, a successful, retired electrical engineer, and I've been pursuing enlightenment since I was 12 years old: yogic, buddhist, daoist, whatever. Today I'm best described as a Taobum. Tomorrow I may not be here.
Do you want to understand the Kunlun practice in more depth? Practice it for two weeks.
Do you want to know what Kunlun's like before you practice it? Read Yogani's The Secrets of Wilder. Don't read it for information, don't read it with your head, but read it with your heart. Read it for the truth of the process. With this novelization of spiritual practice, Yogani has written an incredibly insightful tale of transformation. I hope he writes another!
John Wilder didn't follow an external formula, he followed an internal blueprint that informed and transformed him as necessary on his journey. He received a transmission from Christi Jensen and that set him on his path. After that he blossomed and evolved through his experimentation and experiences, with guidance from those who went before him.
The Kunlun practice is very similar. Don't ask for a sure fire formula, because there isn't any. Get out of your head, let go of your thoughts, follow your heart. You're doomed to success.
The AYP practices are effective. If you're happy with your practice, if you feel that it's taking you where you want to go, then stay with it - why would you want to change? Are you looking for the spiritual equivalent of fast food? Focus on your goal.
Mixing and matching should be done with discretion. It's not about which practice is best - it's about which practice best serves the practitioner.
Kunlun is about letting go of thought, letting go of formulae, and allowing your true nature to emerge. Practice for today. What you need tomorrow will be there when you need it.
It's not about competition. It's about you and your spiritual life.
With love and respect,
AugustLeo
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scottfitzgerald
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 10:08:55 PM
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AugustLeo-
Welcome, you lurker, you. :)
I have friends who own a metaphysical store called "Whatever Works." May apply to this thread and the search for methods that do indeed work.
Many tools are available, and some of us may resonate with a hammer but not a screwdriver...we can put a screw into a piece of wood with either, but one is is a bit messier and may require some clean up. The idea is to keep coming back to the same set of tools to perform the same task. As we get better with the tools we go faster, easier, more elegantly. No wood filler required.
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2008 : 11:58:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by scottfitzgerald
AugustLeo-
Welcome, you lurker, you. :)
I have friends who own a metaphysical store called "Whatever Works." May apply to this thread and the search for methods that do indeed work.
Many tools are available, and some of us may resonate with a hammer but not a screwdriver...we can put a screw into a piece of wood with either, but one is is a bit messier and may require some clean up. The idea is to keep coming back to the same set of tools to perform the same task. As we get better with the tools we go faster, easier, more elegantly. No wood filler required.
Thank you Scott for your welcome.
Let me say that I've used a hammer when a screwdriver would have been better. Not a pretty result. Luckily, I've survived.
Before anything else, let me say that I speak for myself, here on this forum. I do not speak for my friend Max (Lama Dorje). I am merely someone who has had the great fortune to attend two seminars featuring my friend Lama Dorje.
With respect to AYP, indeed, I have been a lurker, and a seeker, and a practice peeker (admit it, you may be a practice peeker too [:).)
Seriously, though, as you said - use what works. [I like your wood working analogy because I'm currently doing some wood-working] Many tools are available. If your practice is giving you what you want, why change? Doesn't make sense to me.
If you want to tune up your practice, be careful. Don't mix and match - pay close attention. Then do what feels right.
Yogani (and Lama Dorje and a whole host of others) has already given the answer to what all are searching for.
Do you really want what you think you want? That's up to you.
With Love and Respect,
AugustLeo |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 03:51:45 AM
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Scott,
In my experience with the two energies and practices, the energy with the kunlun practice is different from the energy from yogic practices. Like always, I could be wrong...but it just seems so much different in practice.
What is rooting? How is it different from grounding?
TI,
We didn't get any documentation, but there will be a new book coming out with most of the info apparently. It's all really simple teachings on these things. I took notes but even that was discouraged. I remember it all anyway, still.
Yoda,
It was great to meet you too...thanks for the hospitality and the laughs. You are great to do a kunlun seminar with because you keep everyone smiling and giggling. BTW thanks for the tip on keeping it within my comfort level.
AugustLeo,
It was great to meet you and your wife, another welcome to AYP from another Scott. |
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 11:59:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
AugustLeo,
It was great to meet you and your wife, another welcome to AYP from another Scott.
Thanks, Scott. It was great to meet up with you too!
Michael |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2008 : 11:55:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
In my experience with the two energies and practices, the energy with the kunlun practice is different from the energy from yogic practices. Like always, I could be wrong...but it just seems so much different in practice.
Hey Scott,
Maybe you already answered otherwise, please detail the differences ?
quote:
What is rooting? How is it different from grounding?
Grounding gets rid you from excess energy; rooting allows you to stabilize yourself to generate more energy.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on May 07 2008 01:06:04 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2008 : 12:10:43 AM
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Wow.
That can sum up kunlun for me. Each practice is so much faster than the last. I can only take so much per session...the book recommends an hour...yeah right. I think when AugustLeo asked, "Do you really want what you think you want?" those were great words of wisdom.
I will give a stupid analogy.
It's like a kid who hears about everyone going on the Batman rollercoaster and how they all think it's really cool, so he tries to imagine what a person would be like after they've been on the ride. Then he sees everyone coming off of it laughing and full of energy, saying "whoa that was intense!" So this kid thinks, "I wish I was laughing and full of energy! I wish I could experience something intense!" So finally he is able to get on the ride, and they strap him in...the ride goes up and all of a sudden he's way up in the air and suddenly realizes...
"Oh crap I am afraid of heights!"
So yeah, kunlun (and AYP as well!) can be like that. On the outside, spiritual stuff may look really interesting and cool and it may make sense to do it. But "on the inside" it can be really intense.
At least for me personally, I got into yoga and stuff mostly for healing. I love to learn about how the body repairs itself, and really want to find out why it doesn't in some cases. After studying anatomy and physiology, I saw huge correlations between the health care and spiritual practices...but really had a hard time finding the key to it all. I learned that the pineal was the master gland and activates and regulates all of the others, that the mouth is actually only supposed to be a secondary breathing device, that there actually is an opening for fluid in the brain to leak down into the mouth...sooooo my point is that I really became interested in all of this to learn how to heal others effectively; that it made sense to get into this kind of stuff.
But really, I wasn't expecting something so powerful. So yeah...wow is the word of the week.
By the way for people who don't have 300 dollars...even attending the free lecture affected me a lot. It felt like the ground was shaking underneath my feet...at first I thought it was the hotel because we were on the second floor. It kind of felt like being in an elevator. Then I also felt it standing outside, so I knew it wasn't something like a shaky hotel. Crazy.
And if you want to get the transmission, you can spend 150 and just go for one of the days I believe. There are also various authorized teachers who can give transmissions if there isn't a lecture happening anytime soon near you. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2008 : 10:13:48 AM
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| Yeeeeah, the red phoenix practice is great. I wasn't so sure until last night. Wow, my mind was gone. |
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AugustLeo
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2008 : 4:14:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Wow.
That can sum up kunlun for me. Each practice is so much faster than the last. I can only take so much per session...the book recommends an hour...yeah right. I think when AugustLeo asked, "Do you really want what you think you want?" those were great words of wisdom.
I will give a stupid analogy.
It's like a kid who hears about everyone going on the Batman rollercoaster and how they all think it's really cool, so he tries to imagine what a person would be like after they've been on the ride. Then he sees everyone coming off of it laughing and full of energy, saying "whoa that was intense!" So this kid thinks, "I wish I was laughing and full of energy! I wish I could experience something intense!" So finally he is able to get on the ride, and they strap him in...the ride goes up and all of a sudden he's way up in the air and suddenly realizes...
"Oh crap I am afraid of heights!"
So yeah, kunlun (and AYP as well!) can be like that. On the outside, spiritual stuff may look really interesting and cool and it may make sense to do it. But "on the inside" it can be really intense.
At least for me personally, I got into yoga and stuff mostly for healing. I love to learn about how the body repairs itself, and really want to find out why it doesn't in some cases. After studying anatomy and physiology, I saw huge correlations between the health care and spiritual practices...but really had a hard time finding the key to it all. I learned that the pineal was the master gland and activates and regulates all of the others, that the mouth is actually only supposed to be a secondary breathing device, that there actually is an opening for fluid in the brain to leak down into the mouth...sooooo my point is that I really became interested in all of this to learn how to heal others effectively; that it made sense to get into this kind of stuff.
But really, I wasn't expecting something so powerful. So yeah...wow is the word of the week.
By the way for people who don't have 300 dollars...even attending the free lecture affected me a lot. It felt like the ground was shaking underneath my feet...at first I thought it was the hotel because we were on the second floor. It kind of felt like being in an elevator. Then I also felt it standing outside, so I knew it wasn't something like a shaky hotel. Crazy.
And if you want to get the transmission, you can spend 150 and just go for one of the days I believe. There are also various authorized teachers who can give transmissions if there isn't a lecture happening anytime soon near you.
Great post, Scott! And a great analogy that really nailed the point home.
For me, Kunlun has definitely been a "quick-quick" path, way more quick than I ever expected. I regularly have to slow things down, so that I never have to go faster than I'm ready to. But that's the great thing about Kunlun - you can slow down if you want to.
"Do you really want what you think you want?" I talked about this with my wife just last night. It's just one step from here to there, from the mundane to enlightenment - but that last step is a doozy, and you can't go back. Am I really ready to totally let go of my world? Our practices, whatever they may be, are just a way to incrementally let go of all of our falseness until we're ready to make the final step. With Kunlun, it's a quick but conscious process, where the practitioner never loses control. AYP is another very effect path. And there are other paths, also. Many paths, one destination.
With Love and Respect,
Michael (AugustLeo)
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2008 : 4:41:26 PM
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Definitely. Quick quick quick. |
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seekeroftruth
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2008 : 01:55:37 AM
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Since more people are coming out of the "lurker" closet, I guess I'll come out too and say that I've been lurking and reading the AYP message board but not posting.
I went to the NJ seminar, so I figure I'll talk about some things. Sorry I didn't meet you Scott, I'm a shy person and couldn't take the nerve to come up and talk to people who I think I know, but I don't know.
Anyway, there was some interesting stuff that Max said that most people might like to hear. First, Max said that the crown should not be opened because it leaks energy. It's strange because it's the goal of almost every yoga tradition, but Max said that so many yogis died of illnesses because they opened up the crown and leaked energy.
Second, Max said that energy isn't meant to be stored in the head. The stomach is a better place to store energy. That's why Max says to close down with the hands over the stomach. Maybe some people practicing AYP could use this. After a practice session, try putting energy in the stomach instead of leaving it in the head. I'm by no means an expert on yoga, but I thought that I'd put that in there if you want to try it (or not).
Third, Max dismissed kundalini. He said something to the effect that kundalini was a new energy and that the "old" practices never used it. He says that the kunlun energy is much more effective.
Just throwing some stuff out there. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2008 : 04:15:25 AM
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Hi seekeroftruth, welcome to the forum!
quote:
Second, Max said that energy isn't meant to be stored in the head. The stomach is a better place to store energy. That's why Max says to close down with the hands over the stomach. Maybe some people practicing AYP could use this. After a practice session, try putting energy in the stomach instead of leaving it in the head. I'm by no means an expert on yoga, but I thought that I'd put that in there if you want to try it (or not).
This is what I've learned from my qi gong training as well, and it has helped me a lot. The brain can't store energy, only use it. The heart can pour out energy, but not store it... the stomach is the place for storage. That's why abdominal massage is a common taoist way to release emotional blockages - it's all stored around the navel area - both the blockages and energy reserve.
The technique to let excess energy just sink from the head down to the stomach or even out through the feet is a very good way to ease head pressure!
Thanks for that reminder!
/emc
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Kunlun Nei Gung
