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Buddy
6 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 7:23:00 PM
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Shanti,
Absolutely. Just find someone who does triggerpoint therapy. Many chiros do this. There are several style of triggerpoint, the vast majority coming from Raymond Nimmo. I do Zen Triggerpoint (R).
The only problem I have with chiros are when they try to claim that all sorts of maladies can be attributed to "subluxation." |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 08:27:35 AM
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Buddy,
How do you know that this is not true? That all kinds of problems cannot be the result of subluxation? What is your direct experience? When there is a symptom caused by subluxation, nothing is going to help it until that stuck bone is released and the irritation tof the nervous system stops as a result. If subluxation is not producing the symptom, then chiropractic will not help. But if it is, nothing else will.
It is that simple.
But you are right in that some chiropractors take this to the extreme. I like the cases that have been everywhere else already and the problem is really simple. And there it is, sticking out like a sore thumb. When you adjust the right bone, bingo, you are a hero, and to you it is so simple and obvious as the nose on your face. But to the suffering person, it is like magic.
Best, yb. |
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Buddy
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 09:26:36 AM
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yb,
As you know this is a very controversial subject in your community. The bottom line is the idea that a bone being out of alignment causes disease is a false one, and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Can it cause pain and discomfiture? Sure. But not disease. Subluxation is always an effect and never the cause.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 5:11:50 PM
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Buddy,
I am not aware of much controversy.
And you are right, Buddy. The misalignment is not the cause. It is that the bone is stuck, that is the problem, and that is what causes disease, whether is is musculoskeletal or otherwise.
Lifestyle habits, of course, are the main cause of disease.
Most of the effects of an adjustment occur between the ears, i.e., supra-segmentally. An adjustment sets a chain reaction in motion that has far reaching effects thruout the nervous system and the rest of the body.
What about the kid with colic that was screaming all night and their parents come in at their wits end and in 4 adjustments their child is "sleeping like a baby" and you have a happy family again?
What about the kids with ear aches that have them clear up with just a few adjustments, never to return and no tubes?
What about the 18 month old girl who has been constipated from day one and her parents have resorted to a weekly suppository to get a BM because all medical solutions have failed and she gets her first lumbar adjusted six times and turns into a little poop machine?
What about the guy who has been up all nite with severe allergies and his eyes are watering and red and he can't stop sneezing and his sacrum gets adjusted and 15 minutes later he is 90% improved?
What about the guy who has had asthma for the last 18 years and he gets his 5th lumbar adjusted and he reduces his medication by 90%?
What about the lady who has non stop bleeding whose period won't turn off for the last week and she gets her first cervical adjusted and in 2 hours it is totally shut off?
What about the 18 year old kid who has rheumatoid arthritis and if he forgets his medication has to crawl on the floor to the medicine cabinet to take some pills and he gets his 12th thoracic adjusted and he throws away his pills away?
I ask you....what about these people? I am speaking from direct experience. You saw the link about the blind guy who had his site restored? You dispute this? The patient sure doesn't. I know this chiropractor. I talked to him about it.
This is just off the top of my head. I can think of others. And so can my colleagues. They all experience the same with their patients. Of course, the majority of what comes to us are back pain, neck pain and headache.
But sometimes we can snag someone who has been sentenced to a life of misery because conventional medicine, for whatever reason, wouldn't steer them to chiropractic and we can turn their life around for the better because we found the true cause of their symptom, the chronic degenerative arthritic process which is progressing in each and every one of us, according to our own particular karma.
This goes for people who have overtly musculoskeletal disease symptoms as well as that manifesting in other body systems.
I have 22 years of experience. What experience are you speaking from?
To put it in simple terms: Stuck bone, nerve pressure, symptom and disease. Release stuck bone, decrease nerve pressure, symptom disappears, health of the entire body improves.
The effect of the subluxation is ultimately systemic. If you understand the relationship between nociception, proprioception and neuroplasticity, it is obvious.
I invite you to explain your model of subluxation to me and its true relationship to pain and disease.
If you are interested.
Best, yb. |
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Buddy
6 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2008 : 3:30:33 PM
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| I posted some links but I guess they want me to comment. Chirobase is a forum run by an MD and a DC. There is a tremendous amount of literature out there debunking subluxation as a cause of disease. My own chiro is in this camp and to that end added other therapies to her practice. Chiropractic seems to be a good method of pain relief in many cases. But subluxation as a cause of disease doesn't seem to hold water. I'm not trying slag the method, but I think an honest approach to any therapy is a necessary one. See:http://www.chirobase.org/01General/chirosub.html |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2008 : 08:58:56 AM
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Hi Buddy,
Did you read my post?
Is the sun going to rise tomorrow morning? Or do we need a randomized, doubleblind, placebo, controlled study to prove it?
Or can you agree with me, based on your own experience over the years that tomorrow morning the chances are pretty good, and you would lay money on it, that it is going to happen?
So it is with people, all over the world, responding to chiropractic, who have disease processes in other bodily systems that have their origin in, to put it simply, a stuck bone in their spine.
In fact, anecdotal studies, where individual case studies are reported in the scientific literature, which is happening in the case of this blind man having his sight restored, have gained a good amount of credibility recently, as they should have, and are expanding the realm of the possible.
When I read Dr. Barrett's name in your post, I thought it was no wonder you have this view of chiropractic. Barrett is aligned with a very small group of chiropractors who limit themselves to the musculoskeletal aspect of chiropractic.
It is something like not admitting that there is ultraviolet and infrared light, only the visible light spectrum. With regards to Dr. Barrett, "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
That is fine.
The people who I mentioned in my previous post would scoff at this flat earth view of chiropractic. Their own direct experience trumps any scientific paper or so called expert.
It also depends on your definition of disease. I would agree with you that there are many disease processes that are not originated by a stuck bone in the spine.
But when they are, no amount of medical treatment is going to help them.
I agree with you that these days, the vast majority of what chiropractors ostensibly do is neuromusculoskeletal (NMS) but you see, it is the neuro part of that word that allows subluxation to be the originator of disease and ill health.
The originator of subluxation is physical, emotional and chemical stress. The main cause is untreated spinal injuries in children, which can commence with the birth process (if you think is only hard for the mother, why do you think the baby is crying?) and gets the degenerative arthritic ball rolling in their lives.
At some point, sooner or later, this disease reaches a point of development where it starts to generate symptoms of one type or another, not limited to musculoskeletal.
In fact, chronic degenerative arthritis is what I am treating in the spine, not the person's symptom complex. This is a disease process in itself.
So we educate people one at a time, as they come into our offices and get rid of any false ideas they may have been exposed to. Of course, some are so entrenched in their belief systems that they do not have the ability to think outside their mental box and look at things objectively. They have too much invested in being right, even when they are wrong.
To put it in perspective, Dr. Barrett has about 0% credibility with the vast majority of our profession.
You know, up until about 1995, chiropractic in all of its 100 years never helped any body with any thing according to the powers that be. But when the RAND corporation came out with their survey of all things low back pain and said that chiropractic was the most effective treatment for low back pain, all of a sudden we were on the map (for LBP, nothing else, not neck pain or headache).
We never helped a single soul before that (I am being facetious, of course), but this is the sillness we have had to put up with since the inception of our profession. We were quacks (unscientific cultist quacks, to quote the AMA directly, whose statement of purpose was "to first contain and then eliminate the profession of chiropractic in the United States").
Didn't happen. When something is true, no amount of negative spin can stop it forever.
So we chiropractors wait patiently for the public consciousness to catch up with the entire truth of the significance of chiropractic and its ability to help people.
It will happen. It is just a matter of time.
I hope you can consider the possiblity that this group you are getting your info from is not the last word on chiropractic.
Best wishes, yb. |
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Buddy
6 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2008 : 09:47:44 AM
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We'll have to agree to disagree. Each to his own and caveat emptor.
Buddy |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2008 : 10:31:29 AM
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Agreed. 
Best, yb. |
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