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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 30 2007 : 9:23:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
We all learn about our own cause and effect as we go. And, from my experience, I'm inclined to trust that if (this is a big if) we stick to the twice daily core practices and experiment with variations, we will tend toward more fine-tuned awareness of cause and effect, and make steady progress in those areas our practices have influence.
We each have to work with our own particular mind and body. Practices start there.
Hi Bewell,
Fine-tuning awareness of cause and effect is something that needs a very definite method.
Sparkle and Emc have been discussing anger issues and purification. It is funny that only yesterday I was talking of amaroli coming to the rescue of my anger issues.... Last night I saw a film in which a case of possession/ghosts turns out to be a killer psychopath, which was resolved with therapy of sorts. I was analysing the film soon after it ended with somebody, when I was suddenly gripped by an unreasonable anger...almost rage. How much ever I tried, I could not shake it off. I quickly went to bed, without engaging in conversation with anybody. But when I closed my eyes, violent images flashed in my head, and I became a little fearful of what was happening. However, I calmed myself down. For a long time white-golden hot light was flashing in my head. There was no build up to this during the day, which was light and high in energy.
Cause and effect? I tentatively began moolbandh a few days ago. That is my guess. Can I be sure shot sure? No. But I'll cut it back, watch, cut it out if needed and then approach it again later.
But if moolbandh is giving me grief or 'percived grief', I need to study it as a student and understand why. If I don't, I'll be perpetrating 'blind' following... I'll have little real understanding to pass on. I will not add to the collective learning/developing process. True, Yogani does say that it is preferable to not dive under the hood. But he also says that each of us has to find out, study, and experiment for ourselves.
So I would do best to find out everything possible about the seeming obstacle for me: moolbandh, and why it affects me thus.
But all that said, I'll wholeheartedly agree that 'seeing' and even 'comprehending' is as much, and here, more of an internal process than an external one. 'let go' is as important, and probably more, as self enquiry and any intellectual examination of cause and effect. They are sort of companions on this road. |
Edited by - sadhak on Dec 01 2007 05:46:02 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 02:19:19 AM
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Coming in late on this
emc wrote: quote:
Sparkle, you write about anger from an early age. Lately, things have been piling up here that concerns purifying rage inside. In my mind a memory has been coming back frequently of a seminar I attended with Leonard Jacobson (one of those self-realized that tours around the world). He described a "final rage" he went through before he stabilized in stillness. He went out imagining he had a bazooka and then he aimed it at everything that came in his way and just blew everything away while an enormous rage went through him.
In Adyashanti's 'Emptiness dancing' he talks about It not being fully stable until it sinks into the gut, and there you have that angry fist that you have to face or meet.
Interesting about it sinking to the gut. It brings up what we were discussing in another thread about the Hara Line.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3189#27350
Barbara Brennen makes the distinction between the dimension of the Chakra System and the Hara Dimension.
The centre of the Chakra system would be the heart. The centre of gravity of the Hara dimension the Dan Tien, just below the navel.
My experience is that people often lump in the two systems in an overlapping way. This has always bothered me and it wasn't untill Barbara Brennan described the hara dimension that it looked like making some sense.
The fact that the dimension worked in, through ki-qong, tai chi and other Eastern arts, is a different dimension than that of the yogic system of the chakras.
Working on one will obviously automatically work on the other, so nothing will be lost either way, I would imagine.
It interests me to be centred in the hara and be centred in the heart both at the same time. If the two dimensions are different, I wonder if this is possible.
It also brings the two aspects of anger and hatred into the equation. Anger being more at home in the hara whilst hatred in the heart.
Shortly after that release of anger and hatred I referred to earlier in this thread,(which incidently only lasted for a few short releases), I had a large heart opening. It was not like others I have had, in that, there was no rush of love. My chest simply pushed out and it felt like two wedges were prizing it apart and leaving a gaping open chest, which was just full of emptiness.
Since then there has been a change in the way I project my loneliness onto other people, like a thinning of this process, it has less hold and is less important.
The rage you talk of: is there any hatred in there?
I think it is so important to get in touch with our hatred, our own self-hatred and transform it. Is it not this that closes our hearts?
quote:
I feel the rage coming, growing, protesting... Have no clue of how many rounds I have to go with this one before it's cleared out. I doubt it's the last fight! But I find it interesting how tension builds up - like you get a hinch, a forewarning that some huge purification is going to take place...
Have you got your bazooka out yet?
Sadhak said: quote:
But if moolbandh is giving me grief or 'percived grief', I need to study it as a student and understand why. If I don't, I'll be perpetrating 'blind' following... I'll have little real understanding to pass on. I will not add to the collective learning/developing process. True, Yogani does say that it is preferable to not dive under the hood. But he also says that each of us has to find out, study, and experiment for ourselves.
I love this Sadhak, thank you.
btw, what is moolbandh, excuse my ignorance.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 05:19:34 AM
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quote:
I love this Sadhak, thank you.
btw, what is moolbandh, excuse my ignorance.
Also called moolabandha or mulabandha... the root lock.
Interesting discussion. I have just spent the last 3 days trying to breath out some huge weight (blockage) from my belly/ solar plexus area. I think we must all be interconnected in some completely incomprehensible way!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 05:46:07 AM
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Sparkle: "It interests me to be centred in the hara and be centred in the heart both at the same time. If the two dimensions are different, I wonder if this is possible."
I don't think the "dimensions" are so different. In my Zhinheng qi-gong we work with "three centers union" - a special position where the center of head - think this is the medulla (?), heart and dan tien in stomach is uniting. Very powerful exercise. The pillar becomes extremely strong, still and black.
Hm. I don't feel hatred, just anger and rage. Perhaps still a blind spot... don't know. Nope, no bazooka! Just a faster fight with life - when I live out my anger in unawareness, life hits back immediately with a jab in my face. Like fighting my image in a mirror... Almost immediate manifestation in outer life of what's going on in my inner life.
Christi, Totally weird, huh?  Thank you for doing some purification work for us all!
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2007 : 08:04:17 AM
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emc wrote:quote:
I don't think the "dimensions" are so different. In my Zhinheng qi-gong we work with "three centers union" - a special position where the center of head - think this is the medulla (?), heart and dan tien in stomach is uniting. Very powerful exercise. The pillar becomes extremely strong, still and black
Yeh, but most of the confusion I've seen is when people are saying the tan tien and the second chakra are the same thing. I don't think they are. There doesn't seem to be a matchup in that region between the chakras and the hara line.
No problem with the heart and head.
quote:
Hm. I don't feel hatred, just anger and rage.
Do you feel envy? and would you concur that envy is a manifestation of hatred?
I read somewhere recently that we were cast down to earth because we envied Krishna and the Gods, it is this envy we have to come to terms with - or something along those lines, perhaps someone can elaborate.
quote:
Also called moolabandha or mulabandha... the root lock.
Thanks Christi
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2007 : 10:12:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
btw, what is moolbandh, excuse my ignorance.
Hi Sparkle,
Sorry, was away and didn't see this. But I see Christi cleared that up. I was inadvertantly writing it the way it is pronounced.
Btw, I've zeroed in only on two things so far that might be relevant: the muladhar chakra governs the musco-skeletal system and survival issues (bone pains?). And mulabandha brings up suppressed emotions (anger, rage?). However, I'm not really sure about the latter, or that the muladhar chakra governing the skeletal system could expose a weak bone structure when one does mulabandha. All in all, nothing significant to report. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2007 : 2:47:44 PM
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"Do you feel envy? and would you concur that envy is a manifestation of hatred?"
Yes, I feel envy. That is not a manifestation of hatred for me. When I dive into what's behind envy it is a thought that they have something I don't. It's a feeling of lack, and a sadness that I am not having what I think I need in order to be happy.
Ah, I see what you mean with the stomach centres. I'd say navel chakra and dan tien is more the same. I've been wondering why they never mention the two lower chakras in the qi gong training. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2007 : 11:52:07 AM
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emc, I dug this out from the archives of study done a long time ago.
It made sense to me then, and it helped a lot in raising the kids.
Although what I learned was more widely explained in terms of the Mother/Child relationship and how it impinges on the later relationship.
9. A Transpersonal Perspective on Primary Envy
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The coincidentia oppositorium is an idea that occupies an important place in Jung's psychology. It is particularly important to realize that what is at stake in this conjunction is not the basic recognition of opposites, nor the simple interplay of opposites in our experience, nor even the union or marriage of opposites, but the shocking realization of their conjunction in the same object or situation. The reason why the coincidentia oppositorium is so crucial is that it does not simply represent the opposition of hate and love, but represents hating and loving the same object. This, of course, is exactly the condition which can precipitate human envy, and is possibly a conflict that it is necessary for us to confront very early in our development, indeed throughout our lives. In this respect, it can be seen that envy is the central challenge to our psychic growth, i.e. resolving the "paradox" of loving and hating the same object. Jealousy is the outcome of the difficulties in sharing the loved object with someone else, and greed is merely asking, or demanding, too much from the loved object.
It is important to realize that hating one object, and loving another, is hardly a challenging experience. But hating and loving the same object, now that is a completely different matter!! And I want to argue that this is a theme, or what Jung would call a psychic truth, that must lie at the core of an existential-transpersonal model of human experience. It is almost certain that the fearful symmetry which William Blake refers to in his poem, The Tyger, is precisely this conjunction:
"Tyger, Tyger burning bright, In the forests of the night: What immortal hand or eye, Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?"
William Blake (The Tyger)
In my own study of Jung and Blake, I have proposed that it is precisely this conjunction that constitutes the God archetype, which Jung equates with the archetype of the Self (Hiles, 2001). Confrontation with this archetype reveals the tragic contradictoriness of the Self, and also of God (as Jung points out), and is experienced as the dark night of the soul. The coincidentia oppositorium is the crucial archetype of the human psyche, it is the ultimate challenge to human growth, it is the unconscious conflict at the core of human existence. And, with respect to what we are discussing here, it is clear that it presents itself to us at critical stages throughout life, from the earliest stages of human growth as primary envy (Klein, 1957), through the inevitable experiences of loss across the lifespan, to the later stages in the prospect of death. Placed in this context, Klein's theory of unconscious envy takes on a new significance. Envy is the expression of an archetype that lies at the core of our being, and it would seem, it is an archetype that must find expression very early in our unfoldment. Envy takes on a transpersonal significance, as an in-built mechanism for dealing with life's inherent limitations. Indeed, if we take this claim seriously, then it does not take much effort to realize that the God archetype could not manifest itself in human consciousness in any other way. It is therefore my claim that envy is a necessary condition for human growth.
Taken from:
http://www.psy.dmu.ac.uk/drhiles/ENVYpaper.htm
Cheers |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2007 : 3:44:54 PM
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| Phew... That was quite a bite! I don't understand anything! Either it's irrelevant, or it's hitting directly at my knot in the stomach... Time will tell! Thank you! I'll come back to it! |
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Purification..
