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Hannah
38 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 12:52:16 PM
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Dear group -
I have no idea if this is the correct place to post this or not, so please forgive me if it's not. How does one respond in a loving way to the "threat" of "the Bible says, it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement, there is no Biblical reincarnation"?
I am no Bible expert at all, but I do seem to recall Biblical evidence of reincarnation, although the word reincarnation is not used. Help appreciated!  |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 1:11:08 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 2:05:06 PM
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Look up these bible passages:
Matthew 16:13-14, Matthew 17:10-13, John 9:1-2 and Revelation 13:10
IMHO they hint to the probability of reincarnation,
also, as far as I know, reincarnation was widespread in early christianity.
But the main point is: be careful not to get in a bible-truth-bashing mode,
which means: find out if your discussion partner is open to discussion.
If your discussion partner believes that the bible is the sole and only one source
of truth, then there is little point of discussing.
You may want to use the forum search function; there are loads
of interesting threads to this topic.
Love and Light
Wolfgang |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 2:33:28 PM
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Hi Hannah
The question I ask is what is the difference between Purgatory and Reincarnation?
They can both be regarded as transition vehicles between this life and the fully enlightened state.
I've never heard of a description for purgatory so why could it not be other lives to purify the soul untill it is ready for heaven?
Louis |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 3:07:54 PM
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Hi Hannah,
Like Wolfgang writes, there are current bible passages that points to reincarnation. There are records that indicate that the theory of reincarnation was originally recorded in the Bible. But the proper interpretations were struck from it during an Ecumenical Council meeting of the Catholic Church in Constantinople sometime around 553 A.D, called the Council of Nicea.
You bring up the statement: "It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement". If you interpret it from the point of view of consciousness instead of in a physical, material way, it can make more sense. The statement doesn't have to be related to reincarnation at all.
This is a version of how I can interpret it: "It is appointed unto a man once to die as a man, as identifying himself as a human ego. The judgement is the complete dissolving of identification as a human ego. After the divine consciousness is born in man, or man identifies himself as God, the consciousness of identifying himself as a man will never appear again." |
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Hannah
38 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 7:23:21 PM
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Thank you to Wolfgang, Sparkle and Weaver for your input. I detest sticky situations such as this and would really like to handle it gracefully and without offense. You guys are great!  |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 7:39:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hannah
Thank you to Wolfgang, Sparkle and Weaver for your input. I detest sticky situations such as this and would really like to handle it gracefully and without offense. You guys are great!
Hi Hannah:
There is also a good reference book on the AYP booklist called Reincarnation - An East-West Anthology by Head and Cranston. It's a classic.
http://www.aypsite.org/booklist14.html
"Reviewing reincarnation in the world's religions, including scriptural quotes and essays. Also includes essays on reincarnation from hundreds of prominent Western thinkers from many countries throughout our recorded history. This is an extensive work on the subject."
You can hand them the book, and leave it at that. 
The guru is in you.
PS: If you follow the book link to Amazon, you will find related books there too.
If you'd like to take it to the next step, hand them a copy of the Secrets of Wilder novel -- it is a Christian story with practices and reincarnation in it.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2007 : 10:14:48 PM
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It doesn't really matter what people believe about the afterlife. I've been baptized; I accepted Jesus into my heart; now I believe in reincarnation, but what happens when I die has nothing to do with how I live my life.
Now if someone says there is some reason we should not follow what we believe to be the best spiritual path in this life, then I'd have an argument.
Christians tell me there is only one life and that's fine.
Eastern religions tell me there are many lives and that's fine. It's interesting to contemplate, but it doesn't make any difference in what's really out there.
This is why it is so ludicrous that any religion would say they are the only word of God. Because people like me are close to God, but see no reason to "believe" any of the religions, and no reason to change what anybody else wants to believe.
If someone tries to "save" me, I tell them great, I talk to God all the time. When he tells me to do that I certainly will. |
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Hannah
38 Posts |
Posted - Aug 14 2007 : 5:23:50 PM
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Hello everyone -
I just wanted to follow-up with yet another THANK YOU for your input. I used the scripture and other points in conversation with this person and it had awesome results. There can be a very fine line between discussion and argument, but thank God it turned out for the best!
Gratitude! |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2007 : 11:52:41 AM
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Hi Wolfgang,
quote:
Matthew 17:
10 Then the disciples asked him, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"
11 He said in reply, "Elijah will indeed come and restore all things;
12 but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands."
13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
quote:
John 9:
1 As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth.
2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him.
These are my two favorites. It is interesting that in the former he is teaching that in a past life John the Baptist was the prophet Elijah and in the latter, he doesn't rebuke his disciples for pre-supposing the prior existence of this man and the possibility of him creating karma during that existence that would result in him being born blind.
With Christ's tendency to challenge falsehood, one would think that he would have corrected his disciples if past lifes was an untruth. Well, he did correct them, but he didn't give them any grief about wondering if the man's blindness was the result of karma created before his birth.
Never saw this one before but it is good, too.
quote:
Matthew 16:
13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Don't know how the bible editors missed these.
Obviously, they are in the habit of discussing things within the context of past lives and reincarnation.
These kinds of contradictions to the conventional Christian belief in one life, straight from the Master's mouth, do tend to cause some head scratching on the part of a lot of modern day Christians.
quote:
Revelation 13:
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
Two versions of this one. This seems to be saying that our fate is pre-ordained but I don't quite get how it relates to there being more than one life. Would you explain your take on it?
Thanks, yb.
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Edited by - yogibear on Aug 17 2007 07:45:13 AM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 06:49:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogibear
Hi Wolfgang,
quote:
Revelation 13:
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
Two versions of this one. This seems to be saying that our fate is pre-ordained but I don't quite get how it relates to there being more than one life. Would you explain your take on it?
Thanks, yb.
Well, those quotes IMO only just describe the law of karma,
or in christian terms: what you sow is what you will reap.
And karma may fullfill itself in this current life or in
another future life.
As to destiny: IMO something is only destined if there is
a cause for it, and the cause would be some wrong-doing
in a previous life. I believe we come here into this life
to learn a lesson (or several lessons  ), and it may be
a lesson we havn't learnt yet in a previous life, or it
may be a completely new lesson.
hth
Wolfgang |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 08:10:32 AM
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Any idea what "here is the patience and the faith of the saints" means?
What does faith of holy people have to do with karma? I can see how faith could carry one through bad times caused by karma, but it seems like two diverse subjects. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2007 : 09:36:53 AM
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Ether said:
Any idea what "here is the patience and the faith of the saints" means?
What does faith of holy people have to do with karma? I can see how faith could carry one through bad times caused by karma, but it seems like two diverse subjects.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Hi Ether,
It looks to me like it's just a statement to accept the law of karma in patience, and to believe in it. |
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Christian beliefs and reincarnation
