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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 6:39:58 PM
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Alright, guys. I'm gonna play the skeptic here. I assume most of you to be scientific spiritualists in the sense that you can be self-analytical and objective when necessary...with some healthy skepticism to keep you grounded.
Now I'm gonna ask...
What are the chances that blissfull stillness and ecstatic conductivity are simply auto-hypnotic or psychosomatically self-induced? Is it possible perhaps that Yoga or whatever else is simply a formula for manipulating the mind into believing what you want so much to believe?
When i read through Yogani's first three books, I couldn't shake the thought that some of this can't be real. To experience a constant state of this indescribible energy flow through the body and so on...is it really possible? The concept of purifying the nervous syatem seems very vaugue to me and I wonder if it is all suggestion and very subject to the individual. If I were to gauge for myself the subtlely of such an experience, and guess it to be rather obvious in that it could not possibly be imagined, how correct would I be if I could step into Yogani's shoes or someone else?
I have been doing AYP for about 3 months now. I like that my mood is elevated, my concience seems inflated and I have an increase of goodwill and appreciation of life. As far as the more obvious things like ecstatic conductivity...nothing. The thing that makes me wonder about whether it is real or not is that while I am doing pranayama I am often conciously or subconciously on the lookout for ANY energy sensations. If I feel a twitch in my arm, or a slight warmth in my head I think "HA! THIS IS IT!"...but then again, it is most likely that I want it to be it, so I believe it is. When Yogani says that at first you feel the shusumna as a thread...I imagine it would be quite easy after a while for my mind to beklieve I do indeed feel a thread of sensation in my spine considering I am paying single-pointed attention to it for 5-10 minutes.
This is getting lengthy...so I guess I can sum my question up like this:
Would you say that your energy sensations and other AYP-related phenomena are as obvious and palpable as say a punch in the face? Do you feel there is ANY chance that you are imagining it? |
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 7:35:52 PM
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A lot of the things we experience during meditation are alien to us because as a race we have not experienced or messed around with those aspects of our bodies for quite some time. As with many things on the spiritual path, they are not currently comprehendable to the mind. This is for obvious reasons that society continues to condition you with knowledge and what not which in the end creates more and more barriers for your spiritual progress. If you want my advice - expecting during meditation is the worse thing possible. Do not judge anything going on and you will find yourself a lot deeper in your practices. When you are conscious you are detached from your mind, the thoughts go through, but you do not judge them or even give them attention.
Although I recognize your speculation on whether or not this is all possible, we could go on for days explaining all kinds of things but in the end you wouldn't believe any of it until you experienced it yourself. When you meditate, and your mind begins running rampant, just let it be. Don't judge anything going in your body, just accept it with open arms. With the tools given by AYP you will find all the answers to your questions without anyone telling you a thing.
Best of luck! |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 8:19:21 PM
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quote:
I have been doing AYP for about 3 months now. I like that my mood is elevated, my concience seems inflated and I have an increase of goodwill and appreciation of life.
Hi Anthony,
This sounds like great progress after only 3 months.
Now imagine these same things you have already experienced continuing to grow and deepen in the a similar way for another 3 years or more? Could that elevated mood become joy? Could your consciousness continue to expand to far greater levels of awareness and could your goodwill and appreciating of life turn into love of others and overwhelming gratitude for life? Is this so hard to believe?
Purifying the nervous system can also be viewed in other words as releasing our built up emotional tensions from the body. When we experience something that we do not like or want in life, we resist it and there is a corresponding physical reaction to it, where it is stored in our bodies as tension. As we clear ourselves out from doing practices, we release these tensions which in turn, purify our nervous systems.
Imagine that instead of having all of our sexual energy confined to our pelvis region and below, enough tensions in the body are released, allowing the sexual energy to circulate more freely throughout the body. This is how ecstatic conductivity begins.
quote:
Would you say that your energy sensations and other AYP-related phenomena are as obvious and palpable as say a punch in the face? Do you feel there is ANY chance that you are imagining it?
Yes, a slap in the face would be an excellent description for the surprise and shock I felt when the inner energies first released. I had never read or heard anything about this possibility or anything about ecstatic conductivity prior so no opportunity for my mind to invent the experience. It is an intensely physical experience that you will not have to look for or wonder if it happened. There will be no doubt.
I have 2 friends who have been fortunate enough to have inner energy openings fairly early on from practicing AYP and they both described it as intensely physical as well.
The good news is you and anyone who consistently practice AYP twice every day and for long enough, will know this intimately, it is the way the human body is meant to operate.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 11:01:43 PM
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Anthony:
What are the chances that blissfull stillness and ecstatic conductivity are simply auto-hypnotic or psychosomatically self-induced? Is it possible perhaps that Yoga or whatever else is simply a formula for manipulating the mind into believing what you want so much to believe?
Good question.
Well, do the labels matter so much? Let me turn it around: if you feel real joy, compassion and peace, then you are feeling real joy, compassion and peace, aren't you? If auto-hypnosis produced this, then that would speak very well for auto-hypnosis and what could we say was wrong with auto-hypnosis?
On the other hand yoga isn't auto-hypnosis anyway. I think I'm personally at the 'very willing disbelievers' end of the bell curve regarding our human tendancy to believe stuff because we want to. I believe I am a person who has very strong cognitive-emotional differentiation. I don't do my yoga wanting to believe anything. I do it because of what it has done for me, in the past and now. I believe what it can do because of what it has done. I'm a natural skeptic who has been convinced simply by experience.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 17 2007 11:58:56 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2007 : 03:36:21 AM
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| I try to fuel my faith and counter my skepticism by remembering my experiences with entheogens. I have mostly given all that up in favor of AYP and for other reasons, however, I do believe they offer SOME quality of a glimpse into human spirituality, however shallow or valuable anyone believes. When I did LSD for the first time it put me on the spiritual path and opened up some doors in my mind and I remember at the time that I was in a sort of self-religious rapture I rmember an overwhelming feeling of "this can't possibly be real!". It's like waking up one day and fidning you can levitate...you just can't believe it is true. Since those experiences are only temporary however they have a dreamy hazy and vaugue quality about them and I believe although they leave you with an impression, they also leave you with a debt, and that debt can only be paid through more drugs or yoga. I hope that yoga will not only be as real as those experiences I have had, but more permamnent and managable. I have this odd fear that the effects of yoga are completely imagined...but it helps to hear other's who are further along the path and their motivating words. Really guys, it helps a lot to recieve encouragement and assurance from fellow AYPers :) Whenever I start to stray or doubt a little, I always come to this forum and re-read some favorite posts. Keep em coming! |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2007 : 1:04:49 PM
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I don't think I experienced the inner body, or the prana flow sensations, tingling, etc, until after about 5 months of meditation.
It was after reading Autobiography of a Yogi. Reading that book exposed me to Kriya Yoga, and I researched. Being exposed to this material after having just glimpsed god, and having meditated for a few months, when I asked god to reveal the path of the body to me, it was just a few days later to a week that I felt these new sensations in the spine. And if I put my awareness to any part of the body, the sensation would appear. So the sensation would follow my attention like a following string, and the string grew into gushing waves that eventually became automatic yoga.
But, during that week I was doing serious visualization, with a degree of concentration NOT present before. Bhakti and preparation were at work.
I've read yogani's 'stages' of purification or awakening, and I must say it is dead on. You may not realize it because you haven't touched on the right parts of the nervous system and brain yet, but keep his outline in mind. As you start to feel what each stage is like, you are hit with a bundle of info from the universe, as the brain puts it all together and ties it to your general understanding of the universe.
I'm so glad to hear that others member are at the daily practice. You are in store for nothing but surprise, awe, and an ultimate feeling of life having gone above and beyond anything your could've ever imagined.
Keep at it!
Cheers
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Edited by - Kyman on Jun 18 2007 1:42:19 PM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2007 : 7:39:56 PM
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Would you say that your energy sensations and other AYP-related phenomena are as obvious and palpable as say a punch in the face? Do you feel there is ANY chance that you are imagining it?
The former, Anthony. With dedicated practice, sooner or later you will have an experience(s) of the type you are wondering about that you cannot refute or doubt. It is inevitable.
Probably, the less attention you put on it happening, the more it will. But it is understandable to wonder.
Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out! 
You are in the right place. Keep digging. Sometimes you gotta mine what seems like a ton of dirt....to find an ounce of gold.
But it sound like you are already getting some great results. |
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darrylc
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2007 : 10:14:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
Would you say that your energy sensations and other AYP-related phenomena are as obvious and palpable as say a punch in the face? Do you feel there is ANY chance that you are imagining it?
They are real. I experienced a whole range of spiritual phenomena before I did any practices in this life. I call it my "slap in the face wake up call" . Before I even knew what a Chakra was they would spin like tops in my sleep and wake me up. Now I just have to direct attention to them and I can move energy around the being.
I'm from a scientific background so it took a lot of research and an experiential approach to confirm in my mind that this stuff is real. It is our ultimate reality! All the things we think are real, is just a conventional reality, we need to drop the conventions to see the utimate
But remember it is just "scenery on the way", just keep going onward to the destination. It's not easy, just keep going and things will happen for you to fuel you conviction.
Doubt arises in all of our minds it's normal, just keep going, things will happen.
Hope that helps
darryl |
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Ok...about this "prana"...
