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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - May 12 2007 : 2:03:46 PM
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I wanted to start a thread on Yogani's Samyama practices and thought I would share a couple of observations on samyama and a little bit about the Law of Attraction.
I have come to appreciate a little more clearly how samyama works. Though Yogani outlines it beautifully in his writings, sometimes things only become more clear from first hand experience.
Since I read his book, I have been wondering which is a more effective method to create your reality, samyama or using the law of attraction and aligning your thoughts (through visualization, repetition, cleaning up their negative counter-parts etc.) in the direction you want to manifest something. Not sure I have the answer but I know the law of attraction is far more difficult to implement effectively than samyama.
One understated aspect of the law of attraction is that what you are trying to manifest can be derailed by the subtlest of thoughts which oppose what you are trying to create. The more you want something, the more fear will be working behind the scenes and derailing it. I believe it takes a great deal of self-awareness to detect opposing thoughts, clean them up and to let them go. I would suggest that unless you do this, you won't be as successful manifesting the reality that you are trying to create as you will inadvertently be opposing yourself, ahhh, good old duality....
The beauty of samyama is that you repeat the sutra and let it go. The "letting go" is the key part of the equation as Yogani points out so often in his book. I see it as such because it minimizes our likelihood of our attaching to the sutra and creating an opposing fear dynamic with our effort which would impede the desired outcome from materializing. The inner silence over time takes care of this.
The other thing I have observed about samyama is that the chosen sutra doesn't necessarily materialize the way we might expect, but our awareness of it increases (and of ourselves and how we actually block it), each time it is practiced. Therefore, we gain insight into the nature of the sutra we are practicing by understanding ourselves with greater awareness. What is morally self-regulating about it, is that as our awareness of a given sutra grows, so does our appreciation of our motives in practicing the sutra, these motives become "enlightened" for lack of a better term, and evolve as inner silence permeates us and the sutra.
This may be blatantly obvious to anyone reading, not sure why I wanted to write about it, but putting the words out there is helping to increase my understanding.
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Mr S
2 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2007 : 7:08:27 PM
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| I appreciate your writings on this. It has opened up a new understanding of directing desire properly. You say that we oppose our own desires with our fears of the possible outcome or non-outcome of our what we want, and this I think is very true. I never fully appreciated it until you excellently outlined it in your post. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2007 : 8:45:06 PM
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Thanks Mr S for the kind words and welcome to the AYP forum! |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2007 : 10:53:33 PM
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Just my two cents FWIW:
I don't feel that samyama is by or for me or any personal purpose I may have. I intone the word, and I let it go out there to fade or to be acted on in some unfathomable process or whatever. Who knows? Even if I sprout Popeye arms on the "strength" samyama, I'll just sit calmly and let it happen. I'm out of it.
Like all these practices, I let rather than do. I don't try to "own the process" in the least. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2007 : 01:17:23 AM
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quote:
Anthem wrote:
This may be blatantly obvious to anyone reading, not sure why I wanted to write about it, but putting the words out there is helping to increase my understanding.
Hi Anthem, and welcome Mr S ,
I like posting for that reason, too. The effect on me is possibly something like journaling which I have never done. I think posting is a good exercise.
I remember Yogani writing that nothing but good can come of whatever sutra we cast off into inner silence.
This is the understanding that I use in this regard to deal with the negative.
quote:
The other thing I have observed about samyama is that the chosen sutra doesn't necessarily materialize the way we might expect.
When I have wished (wishing fits into this type of thing, doesn’t it?) for something in the past, it has never turned out quite the way I expected it to, altho whatever happens it is always has been really good for me in retrospect and did fulfill my desire.
I remember that when I wished and it came true, I was in a unique and peculiar state of mind, kind of in a reverie or something, when I wished. Without this state of mind, which I could not consciously create and which seemed to occur only spontaneously, the wish did not manifest.
Yogi Ramacharaka says the prerequisite for some of his raja yoga exercises is to "go into the silence." That includes any kind of attempt at manifesting or attracting something. He calls it subconsciousing.
I can't compare samyama with attracting, visualization, etc. because I haven't had any kind of interesting experience with AYP samyama yet.
I wonder sometimes if the i am mantra meditation is a kind of samyama on the core of our being except that you don't let it incubate for 15 seconds. I don't know if that is an accurate idea but it seems like it could be to me. After all, Yogani says we don't have to consider the meaning of the sutras as the inner silence knows it better than we do. And we don't focus on the meaning of i am either. Maybe this is covered in another thread.
What do you think?
quote:
but our awareness of it increases (and of ourselves and how we actually block it), each time it is practiced. Therefore, we gain insight into the nature of the sutra we are practicing by understanding ourselves with greater awareness. What is morally self-regulating about it, is that as our awareness of a given sutra grows, so does our appreciation of our motives in practicing the sutra, these motives become "enlightened" for lack of a better term, and evolve as inner silence permeates us and the sutra.
I don't think I understand this part. Can you explain it a little more, maybe give an example of what you mean to illustrate it?
Thanks a bunch, yb.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2007 : 07:32:06 AM
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Having a desire works against your ability to manifest it, but only to the extent that the desire is for yourself. That is how it morally regulates.
Samyama practices non-attachment followed by faith in your highest ideal in silence which is the formula for manifestation. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2007 : 09:26:04 AM
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Hi yogibear you said
quote:
I wonder sometimes if the i am mantra meditation is a kind of samyama on the core of our being except that you don't let it incubate for 15 seconds. I don't know if that is an accurate idea but it seems like it could be to me. After all, Yogani says we don't have to consider the meaning of the sutras as the inner silence knows it better than we do. And we don't focus on the meaning of i am either. Maybe this is covered in another thread.
It is important not to attach any meaning at all to the mantra it is purely for its vibrational qualities. Here is what Yogani has to say in his book "deep meditation"
quote:
the thought – I AM. This will be our mantra.It is for the sound that we will use I AM, not for the meaning of it. The meaning has an obvious significance in English, and I AM has a religious meaning in the English Bible as well. But we will not use I AM for the meaning – only for the sound. We can also spell it AYAM. No meaning there, is there?
Only the sound. That is what we want. If your first language is not English, you may spell the sound phonetically in your own language if you wish. No matter how we spell it, it will be the same sound. The power of the sound …I AM… is great when thought inside
You will also find loads of information and links to threads on the mantra here. Mantra
Hope this helps |
Edited by - Richard on Jul 29 2007 09:30:28 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2007 : 6:51:45 PM
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quote:
wonder sometimes if the i am mantra meditation is a kind of samyama on the core of our being except that you don't let it incubate for 15 seconds. I don't know if that is an accurate idea but it seems like it could be to me. After all, Yogani says we don't have to consider the meaning of the sutras as the inner silence knows it better than we do. And we don't focus on the meaning of i am either. Maybe this is covered in another thread.
What do you think?
Hi YB,
Not to sound flippant, but I have recently come to appreciate that understanding the details with mental concepts can be an impediment to true understanding from the heart. The links Richard provided are great and will paint a better picture than I can do.
My sense of the mantra is that ultimately it is the divine manifesting in vibration and as we become aware of it, we bring ourselves to this connection in inner silence and more so, we realize ourselves as It. The mantra does many things, for example it vibrates in a way to stimulate the spinal nerve and also releases blockages in the nervous system as well as to consistently bring the mind out of conditioning and into inner silence without getting lost in experiences or distracting thoughts or emotions. It is fairly incredible to me how effective it is and I am sure this respect for the process will only increase over the years of practice.
The difference to me is that the words used in Samyama have a particular form or manifestation in our energy patterns which bring about particular results. Mantra is more a way to negate or replace existing undesirable forms with silence. To be honest I can really can only speculate here, but hopefully will come to direct knowing in time.
quote:
quote:
but our awareness of it increases (and of ourselves and how we actually block it), each time it is practiced. Therefore, we gain insight into the nature of the sutra we are practicing by understanding ourselves with greater awareness. What is morally self-regulating about it, is that as our awareness of a given sutra grows, so does our appreciation of our motives in practicing the sutra, these motives become "enlightened" for lack of a better term, and evolve as inner silence permeates us and the sutra.
I don't think I understand this part. Can you explain it a little more, maybe give an example of what you mean to illustrate it?
Thanks a bunch, yb.
Maybe this perspective would be better illustrated with an example. By uttering a sutra like "Akasha- lightness of air" into inner silence we come to realize our true nature of emptiness or nothingness within. The sutra helps to manifest our inner reality which is already there but which we are not yet fully aware of. Therefore our initial understanding of our internal dynamics becomes more clear and the block in our understanding of this reality is cleared out over time.
As we practice a sutra over time and by knowing our true nature better, we become more aligned with It and act out of love and service accordingly because it is what we are. Hence it becomes morally self-regulating. This is just one example and I am certainly no expert, but this is my understanding at the moment. I am sure Yogani could give much better insight if I am doing a poor job of it here.
In any event, let me know if this doesn't make sense.
all the best,
A
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2007 : 2:56:59 PM
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Hi Richard,
Thanks very much for the link. I read it. It was really good. I really like the concept. I like the correlation of the mantra vibrations with the different parts of the nervous system. I like this kind of information. I will just keep going over and over it and practice until it sinks in and I have a good grasp of it.
I do practice this way. I don't complicate it when I do it. I just keep returning to the mantra whenever I am aware that I am not remembering it and w/o attaching any significance to it. Nothing more. I like it.
This is basically what Tolle says to do but his focus is to return to the now using body or breath awareness (that, to me, is basically what part of what hatha yoga is about) or something else to latch on to, there were a few others I don't remember off the top of my head. Portals as he calls them. Does he actually teach sitting down and practicing on a regular basis? I have never seen it. Anybody know?
So, in AYP, the portal is the mantra, and you return to it every time you find you have wandered off from it, with all the added vibrational benefits.
Super simple.
Thanks again, yb.
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Edited by - yogibear on Jul 31 2007 9:59:59 PM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2007 : 3:13:24 PM
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Hi A,
quote:
Not to sound flippant, but I have recently come to appreciate that understanding the details with mental concepts can be an impediment to true understanding from the heart.
An ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory, is that what you mean? No disagreement from me, if it is. Lifting up the hood is not needed for successful practice.
Myself, I like to develop a clear accurate concept of what I am doing. It doesn't have to be overly detailed, just well rounded and complete enough to have a good understanding of what I am doing and what I am trying to accomplish. I like to grasp both the spirit and the letter of the law, if I can. And then when I practice, just enough theory for correct performance of the practice.
quote:
The difference to me is that the words used in Samyama have a particular form or manifestation in our energy patterns which bring about particular results. Mantra is more a way to negate or replace existing undesirable forms with silence.
And I was thinking too, that mantra takes us into inner silence and samyama brings inner silence out of us, but colored by the sutra. What we bring with us out of deep meditation on the mantra is more pure inner silence. Yes?
I have always had a different perspective on and understanding of samyama and meditation before hooking up with AYP. Right now I am comparing and contrasting them and trying to reconcile and make sense out of the differences.
My concept of samyama up to now is that it results in becoming one with the object of samyama. That by combining the last 3 steps of yoga, you become one with that object and know it from the inside out, "true understanding with the heart" to use your words. You know the object of samyama from the inside out as if you were it.
So, there is significance to the words, "I am." According to Yogi Ramacharaka, it is a mental representation or statement of our essential nature, existence and being. So, as that is the significance of "I am” (according to him), by remembering the mantra without regard to its meaning (according to Yogani) and having faith that inner silence knows the significance of our words without our having to be concerned ourselves with it, it will have the same effect as a sutra in samyama. In other words, by following the mantra inward we come to understand our essential nature, inner silence, by becoming it. Maybe by becoming conscious of what we already are is a better way to say it.
He has a practice, which I have done from time to time, that I won’t try to say is similar or parallel, but rather, uses the same elements. Basically, you go into the silence as he puts it and repeat “I am”, but in this practice you do contemplate its significance and true meaning with the hopes of setting up vibrations in the mind (not the kind we talk about here at AYP) that are sympathetic to the actual reality of “I am” as a state of consciousness that will hopefully allow a quantum leap from conceptual understanding of the truth to actual experience or realization of the truth of ourselves. There is no consideration of the energetic effects of “I am” from the AYP point of view in his practice.
So two very different practices trying to achieve the same thing with the same elements but from opposite directions, perhaps.
Maybe any effectiveness of Ramacharaka’s practice is due to the inadvertent vibrational benefits of the repetition of “I am” on the nervous system.
Or AYP’s effectiveness is due to the inner silence’s recognition of the “I am “ sutra.
Or it is both.
Or AYP's effectiveness is due solely to the vibrational effects of the mantra.
But in AYP practice, the mantra is essentially a meaningless energy vibration that purifies our mind and nervous system and this desired effect is what is focused on.
That is my half developed reasoning on the subject. Not saying that it is right, just where my mind is right now in its conceptual evolution of this subject. Just playing around with it.
Having read the mantra construction lesson, well, it is interesting, at any rate, that the repetition of the mental representation of our essential nature purifies the spinal nerve when it is heard or felt with in us.
Oh well, interesting to me, anyways. What ever the case, direct experience derived from correct practice is what really matters, eh?
quote:
The sutra helps to manifest our inner reality which is already there but which we are not yet fully aware of. Therefore our initial understanding of our internal dynamics becomes more clear and the block in our understanding of this reality is cleared out over time.
Because we are it. Because we understand it from the inside out. Is that what you are trying to convey?
quote:
As we practice a sutra over time and by knowing our true nature better, we become more aligned with It and act out of love and service accordingly because it is what we are. Hence it becomes morally self-regulating.
I think I understand this, A.
You know, this forum is really great. I haven’t had any satsang for over 20 years, so it is great to have an outlet like this with a group of essentially like minded people where you can talk shop, and help each other to clarify understanding and strengthen practice. It is maybe even better than hanging out in Rishikesh with all the saints and sages and sadhus and sadhaks, and stuff. Maybe not. I don't know. Never been there.  What a great resource. 
Thank you, A, for your perspective and explanation of mantra and its effects and samyama,
yb.
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2007 : 3:13:30 PM
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Hi Yogi
quote:
So, in AYP, the portal is the mantra, and you return to it every time you find you have wondered off from it, with all the added vibrational benefits.
Super simple.
Yep keep it as simple as you can that is the whole essence of AYP meditation
quote:
Or AYP’s effectiveness is due to the inner silence’s recognition of the “I am “ sutra.
Or it is both.
Or AYP's effectiveness is due solely to the vibrational effects of the mantra.
With AYP its purely the vibrational effects we are going for otherwise it wouldn't work in all languages
Which means it could bring confusion if we used "I am" as a sutra as well
Glad to be of help |
Edited by - Richard on Jul 31 2007 3:19:28 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2007 : 10:52:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogibear
Hi A,
And I was thinking too, that mantra takes us into inner silence and samyama brings inner silence out of us, but colored by the sutra. What we bring with us out of deep meditation on the mantra is more pure inner silence. Yes?
That sums it up beautifully, far more clearly than I have above.
quote:
My concept of samyama up to now is that it results in becoming one with the object of samyama. That by combining the last 3 steps of yoga, you become one with that object and know it from the inside out, "true understanding with the heart" to use your words. You know the object of samyama from the inside out as if you were it.
I agree with the above and I believe this is how Yogani relates it in his Samyama book.
quote:
quote:
The sutra helps to manifest our inner reality which is already there but which we are not yet fully aware of. Therefore our initial understanding of our internal dynamics becomes more clear and the block in our understanding of this reality is cleared out over time.
Because we are it. Because we understand it from the inside out. Is that what you are trying to convey?
Essentially yes.
quote:
You know, this forum is really great. I haven’t had any satsang for over 20 years, so it is great to have an outlet like this with a group of essentially like minded people where you can talk shop, and help each other to clarify understanding and strengthen practice.
I agree.
quote:
Thank you, A, for your perspective and explanation of mantra and its effects and samyama,
yb.
Thanks to you as well, this conversation helps me to understand it more clearly too.
All the best,
A
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2007 : 6:31:22 PM
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Very interesting. Thank you for bringing it up. I just came home from a few days in the cabin where I deepened my practices on samyama and read the book all over again.
My overall impression so far is that you don't have to be so afraid of doing it a bit clumsy in the beginning. What is recommended in the texts by Yogani, I see as an ideal for best results. But it works anyway, even with lots of
"mistakes" here and there. Very comforting to know that silence will always make the BEST out of whatever sutra is released, in opposition to what the law of attraction does - it only obeys order careless of the meaning or consequences of it! (What you think and feel you will get more of)
Even if thoughts come and disturb, even if timing is lousy, even if you pronounciate the sutra and linger on the meaning of it with long thought trains during those 15 sec - it works! Perhaps not as good as it ideally could, but it works.
Thank you again for this thread. It's my topic of the day, and I was glad to find it here! |
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zzzMonster
Singapore
38 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2007 : 06:42:37 AM
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| Hi everyone, I find Samayama very hard to practise (maybe my inner silence is not enough), but I find Akasha - Lightness of air the easiest to let go into inner silence and surrender to it.As for the rest, I keep having thoughts on trying to remember the next sutra. In what order do you ppl practise your sutras to make it the most comfortable ? |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2007 : 07:34:49 AM
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HI ZZ
A lot of people have trouble with Samyama at first not to worry If you don't feel you are ready don't try too hard, that sort of defeats the object really. Saying that you dont need much inner silence to make a start on it, just briefly think the sutra just sort of touch on the idea of it and then just let it go into inner silence.
quote:
In what order do you ppl practise your sutras to make it the most comfortable ?
The best order to practice the sutras is that given by Yogani.
Love
Radiance
Unity
Health
Strength
Abundance
Wisdom
Inner Sensuality
Akasha – Lightness of Air
If you look here you will find some lessons and links that will help you.
In the meantime don't worry about it when you are ready it will come quite easily.
Hope this helps
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2007 : 09:02:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by zzzMonster
Hi everyone, I find Samayama very hard to practise (maybe my inner silence is not enough), but I find Akasha - Lightness of air the easiest to let go into inner silence and surrender to it.As for the rest, I keep having thoughts on trying to remember the next sutra. In what order do you ppl practise your sutras to make it the most comfortable ?
Hi Z,
Richard's reply is very good.
What I am going to write below are not meanings of the sutras. Please don't associate these sutras with the words I will use to group them with. In samyama, we don't want to contemplate the meaning of the sutras, we just say the word once in our mind and let it go.
The way I try and remember the sutras...
In groups of threes...
Love
Radiance
Unity
(Love of God, union with God and resulting in radiance(blessings/light) of God)
Health
Strength
Abundance
(Health and Strength leading to abundance of all of the above:), including love and radiance and union with God)
Wisdom
Inner Sensuality
Akasha – Lightness of Air
(this set .. wisdom and inner sensuality, I still have a trouble remembering at times.. but then after awhile you just get it)
Hopefully this will help. |
Edited by - Shanti on Sep 09 2007 09:03:28 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2007 : 09:11:16 AM
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I've been reading about the laws of attraction and, in spite of my earlier rant about Abraham Hicks on another thread, I find the essence of their teachings to be profound. However, there's something in them that resonates deep within me as misguided, and this by Yogibear touches upon it:
quote:
Originally posted by yogibear
[quote]I remember that when I wished and it came true, I was in a unique and peculiar state of mind, kind of in a reverie or something, when I wished. Without this state of mind, which I could not consciously create and which seemed to occur only spontaneously, the wish did not manifest.
YB, when you have wished for something and then got it, is it fair to say that your "peculiar state of mind" was inner silence?
Speaking for myself, that has been the case. There is a sudden and deep "knowing" that such&such is to be yours: an event, an object, a direction, and so when you go into manifestation mode, it is with the inexplicable certainty that it is, in a sense, already done. As opposed to that fearful kind of prayer/manifestation in which you're swimming in uncertainty, and thus blocking your desires from the outset. It simply wasn't meant to be yours, and you have to align yourself with the fact. Thus Christ's teaching: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness [inner silence and the truth therein], and THEN everything else will be added unto you."
What I see about samyama that is wildly different from the law of attraction is that our inner silence is prerequisite; it's already present, or else we wouldn't be engaged in it. So when we release the pre-established sutras, which are designed for our highest good, there's no fear involved to muck the whole thing up.
If we want to attract to ourselves those things that we find desirable, I think the best bet is to go into inner silence, and in THAT inner dimension, run down the list of desires. What resonates? What feels in alignment? What feels 'true'? And wherever there is the fear of NOT getting, there is indication that this desire may not align with my highest good. This extra step - going into inner silence - is to me is the missing element of the teachings of the laws of attraction...or maybe it's there, and I missed it. |
Edited by - Manipura on Sep 09 2007 10:22:02 AM |
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zzzMonster
Singapore
38 Posts |
Posted - Sep 09 2007 : 8:08:47 PM
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Thanks Meg,Shanti and Richard
I was too hasty in posting that. I seems to be able to let go from love to unity completely. For heart,abdundance and Akasha - Lightness of Air,it is sort of like not fully let go. For Wisdom and Inner Sensuality (total mess).So I think I am improving. Thanks everyone again.
ps: After I added Asana and Samayama - meditation is giving me a headache after 10 mins (Is it wise to cut meditation down or should I remove Samayama - even though it feels good) |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2007 : 09:16:25 AM
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Hi ZZZ do you mean if you do more that 10 minutes? If that's the case just leave it at 10 minutes for now.
If you mean you are getting headaches at the 10 minute level just do the sutra's in samyama once instead of twice and see how that goes.
Everyone is different with self pacing you will have to experiment, sounds like you are doing great though :) |
Edited by - Richard on Sep 10 2007 09:19:59 AM |
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Random thoughts -Samyama and the Law of Attraction
