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AYPforum
351 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 08 2005 : 1:07:31 PM
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1187 From: "Chris" <crispy1805@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jul 2, 2005 9:30pm
Subject: I was wondering... crispy1805
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A friend of mine discovered this article about Yoga from an ex-yogi:
http://www.bible.com/answers/ayoga.html
His main website is: http://www.earthharvest.org/
I personally don't agree, but it is an interesting perspective. I was
wondering what do you think, since you are also from a Christian
upbringing?
Namaste.
1189 From: "yogani99" <yogani99@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun Jul 3, 2005 1:25am
Subject: Re: I was wondering ... Yoga vs. Christianity yogani99
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Hello Chris:
Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, I do have Christian roots, as do
many here, I suspect.
The Secrets of Wilder novel addresses the yoga versus Christianity
argument with the discovery and implementation of powerful spiritual
practices (analogous with eastern methods) within a western Christian
environment.
There are those who believe that the birth of Christianity was a
distillation of advanced spiritual knowledge and methods from the known
world at the time, including India. The Essenes hold this belief to
this day, and practice according -- the so-called secret teachings of
Jesus.
Over the centuries, dogmatic ideas have persisted that we must accept a
particular savior or ideology or burn in hell, or that any symptom of
purification in the nervous system outside the cultural norm is
demonic. Interestingly, this style of belief is not unique to
Christianity. It has occurred in all the religions, and has been a
primary rationale for the endless persecutions and murders that have
been occurring for thousands of years. Now, finally, the rise of divine
knowledge within all of us will end it.
Every person has the same doorway to the divine -- the human nervous
system -- and the means for its purification and opening are universal,
by whatever name these means are called. "A rose is still a rose, by
any other name..."
Anyone who looks will find that the recorded experiences of saints and
sages from all the religions throughout history have been essentially
the same. While the cultural and religious backdrops have varied, the
experience of human spiritual transformation always has the same
telltale signs -- unshakable inner silence, unending ecstatic bliss and
outpouring divine love. And most of all -- Joy! Joy! Joy!
While The Secrets of Wilder does not attempt to settle the arguments
between the religions, or trace the cultural roots of the many
spiritual techniques revealed, it does lay out a clear path of
practices and experiences that are in tune with the inner spirit of
Christianity, and all the religions. The means are not
primarily "Hindu" or "Christian" in the Wilder story. They are
human ... and that is the bottom line. Enlightenment is not mainly a
religious experience, but a human one, and equally accessible to all.
The guru is in you.
Yogani
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <crispy1805@y...> wrote:
> A friend of mine discovered this article about Yoga from an ex-yogi:
> http://www.bible.com/answers/ayoga.html
>
> His main website is: http://www.earthharvest.org/
>
> I personally don't agree, but it is an interesting perspective. I was
> wondering what do you think, since you are also from a Christian
> upbringing?
>
> Namaste.
1190 From: meg
Date: Sun Jul 3, 2005 0:19am
Subject: Re: I was wondering... margaretsueh...
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Chris - It9s interesting to me that in the first part of the essay, the
author presents yoga and eastern metaphysics as dangerous, if not delusional
practices, and then goes on to present the teachings of the Bible as pure
fact. Which is harder to swallow: 1) that man is born in sin, but through
faith in Jesus, we are saved and will go to heaven when we die, or 2) that
we are born into our current bodies, and by practicing certain exercises
(meditation, asanas, and the like), we will eventually attain higher states
of consciousness, get reincarnated umpteen times, until we finally 3get it2
and can jump off the wheel? I9m not suggesting that one is more believable
than the other, all I9m getting at is that the Christian belief system is
fear-based and
every bit as wacky as he suggests the eastern religions to be. As anyone who
has read Revelations knows, the Bible can get pretty woo-woo. A beautiful,
breathtaking book, but one to be read mystically, metaphorically; not
literally.
I was raised Christian and come from a long line of born-again
fundamentalists (I no longer am one), and I9ve come to believe that modern
Christianity, in its most base form, is a subversive form of mind control.
It is a sealed tight container, allowing zero tolerance for any system of
belief which contradicts its own teachings, as is evidenced by Michael
Sharif.
If your question was intended for a particular person, then I apologize for
butting in. I9m curious as to why you found the article interesting. Are
you, or were you, a Christian?
warmly,
meg
A friend of mine discovered this article about Yoga from an ex-yogi:
> http://www.bible.com/answers/ayoga.html
>
> His main website is: http://www.earthharvest.org/
>
> I personally don't agree, but it is an interesting perspective. I was
> wondering what do you think, since you are also from a Christian
> upbringing?
>
> Namaste.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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1191 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@cox.net>
Date: Sun Jul 3, 2005 5:13am
Subject: Re: I was wondering... mm78102002
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> A friend of mine discovered this article about Yoga from an ex-
yogi:
========================
Hello Chris -
In addition to what Yogani and Meg have stated, I wanted to add just
a few points.
First, he uses his experience to try to demonstrate that yoga is
dangerous. Used inappropriately, yes, I believe it has the
potential to be dangerous. One thing you will notice from the AYP
lessons is the repeating theme of self-pacing and learning to back
off when necessary or making sure things are stable before moving
on. This should alleviate any untoward effects one may encouter,
and is the reason it has traditionally been emphasized to have a
guru guide you.
Next, he is correct about Hatha yoga being a lead into meditative
yoga for some. This is not a bad thing though. :-)
Finally, I have just begun reading Paramahansa Yogananda's book "The
Second coming of Christ: Resurrection of the Christ Within".
Although still near the beginning [it is a two volume book], I am
really enjoying it. What he does is explain parts of the Bible
which are often misunderstood by modern-day Christians. He shows
examples where the Bible and Gita are in perfect accord with each
other and are not different religions, just a different way of being
presented. He basically explains the Bible the way Jesus would have
liked it to be taught. In fact, he states that he was in contact
with Jesus [a yogi himself] for clarification of the passages and
their meanings in the writing of the book.
I would just LOVE to get this book for a family member of mine, but
I am afraid they just are not ready for it and might be offended.
After all, this person went to India a few years ago to try to
convert the sinners over there! - lol.
I am glad to see you bring this up because many fall victim to the
scare-mongering tactics of the ignorance of modern day Christianity.
Blessings,
Melissa
1207 From: obinna obi <oobbiinnaa2000@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jul 5, 2005 5:54am
Subject: Re: Re: I was wondering... oobbiinnaa2000
Send IM
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HELLO!
THIS IS WONDERFUL. PLS COULD I BY ANY OF THE/YOUR SLIGTHEST
HELP GET A COPY OF "PARAMAHANSA YOGANANDA" THE 2ND COMING
OF JESUS CHRIST.
I REALLY NEED THIS.
REGARDS OBINNA
Melissa <mm7810@cox.net> wrote:
> A friend of mine discovered this article about Yoga from an ex-
yogi:
=====================
Hello Chris -
In addition to what Yogani and Meg have stated, I wanted to add just
a few points.
First, he uses his experience to try to demonstrate that yoga is
dangerous. Used inappropriately, yes, I believe it has the
potential to be dangerous. One thing you will notice from the AYP
lessons is the repeating theme of self-pacing and learning to back
off when necessary or making sure things are stable before moving
on. This should alleviate any untoward effects one may encouter,
and is the reason it has traditionally been emphasized to have a
guru guide you.
Next, he is correct about Hatha yoga being a lead into meditative
yoga for some. This is not a bad thing though. :-)
Finally, I have just begun reading Paramahansa Yogananda's book "The
Second coming of Christ: Resurrection of the Christ Within".
Although still near the beginning [it is a two volume book], I am
really enjoying it. What he does is explain parts of the Bible
which are often misunderstood by modern-day Christians. He shows
examples where the Bible and Gita are in perfect accord with each
other and are not different religions, just a different way of being
presented. He basically explains the Bible the way Jesus would have
liked it to be taught. In fact, he states that he was in contact
with Jesus [a yogi himself] for clarification of the passages and
their meanings in the writing of the book.
I would just LOVE to get this book for a family member of mine, but
I am afraid they just are not ready for it and might be offended.
After all, this person went to India a few years ago to try to
convert the sinners over there! - lol.
I am glad to see you bring this up because many fall victim to the
scare-mongering tactics of the ignorance of modern day Christianity.
Blessings,
Melissa
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
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1209 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@cox.net>
Date: Tue Jul 5, 2005 10:50am
Subject: Re: I was wondering... mm78102002
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Hello Obinna -
The link for the book at Amazon is here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0876125550/qid=1120574775/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-6566462-
7312021?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Email me privately if you have any difficulties getting a copy. :)
Melissa
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, obinna obi <oobbiinnaa2000@y...>
wrote:
> HELLO!
> THIS IS WONDERFUL. PLS COULD I BY ANY OF THE/YOUR SLIGTHEST
> HELP GET A COPY OF "PARAMAHANSA YOGANANDA" THE 2ND COMING
> OF JESUS CHRIST.
> I REALLY NEED THIS.
>
> REGARDS OBINNA
>
1221 From: "mmch2122" <mmch2122@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jul 6, 2005 5:08pm
Subject: Re: I was wondering... mmch2122
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My background is that of one who has returned to Christianity over
the last decade, as the result of a kind of irresistable inner pull,
after having firmly rejected it as a teenager, and later spending 25
years in SRF. What most people both inside and outside of
Christianity do not yet realize is the extent of the recovery
knowledge of Christian contemplative traditions over the last 30 or
so years, through the initial impetus of Merton, and gaining
momentum through those who have followed him.
The earliest available written description of Christian meditation
comes from the 4th century Dialogs of John Cassian, in which an
elderly "Desert Father" gave him a method of mantra meditation he
described as being an ancient practice even then:
http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/..._to_aid.html
This stream was never completely lost in the Eastern Orthodox
church, and is probably best known in the form of "the Jesus
Prayer," presented to the public in the 19th century anonymous "Way
of A
Pilgrim."
http://www.monasticdialog.com/bulle.../starman.htm
That's just scratching the surface however. There are a series of
intriguing quotes from early desert fathers in the "Attention" issue
of Parabla on contemplative practice. I was intrigued with one
monk's statement that the practice is "to guide the Presence from
the Mind to the Heart by means of the breath."
This stream of Christian mantra meditation has moved mainstream in
the west in large part through the work started by John Main. Main
was a civil servent in India and learned mantra practice from an
Indian teacher. He later became a Benedictine, discovered Cassian,
and began teaching Christian mantra meditation.
http://wccm.org/splash.asp?pagestyle=default
I attended a weekend retreat with his principle successor, Fr.
Laurence Freeman, in April. I was particularily struck by the
extremely "simple but sophisticated" nature of the practice, and how
in contrast to the somewhat elaborate "plumage" I've seen (and done)
at various past yoga get-togethers, I was among "just plain folks."
During one meditation period I sat next to an elderly woman who
needed to use an oxygen tank. The sound on the valve opening and
closing became part of the background fabric of the meditation,
along with the sound of some rather throaty bullfrogs at the pond
outside. I simply cannot give any credence to any sort of assertion
that meditation is somehow not for Christians, or at least
not "ordinary Christians." When someone gets hungry for spiritual
practice, their outward denomination doesn't seem to have anything
to do with it.
The other major strand of Christian meditation owes a debt to
Cassian, but an even greater debt to the anonymous 14th
century "Cloud of Unknowing." This was the strand picked up by
Merton and later Keating an Pennington:
http://www.centeringprayer.com/
Briefly, this is a method I find analagous to the Zen practice of
Shikantanza, or "just sitting," in which a word or the breath is
used not in constant repetition, but to return to the "awareness of
Presence" when it is lost.
Finally, for my own part, I am here because I came upon the AYP
board in October, and was and remain astounded at the power of the
integrated series of practices they contain. I have a profound
gratitude for this. Even so, there are periods when I am inclined
to take a break and spend a few days with something even simpler. I
have heard that for a certain period, St. John of the Cross was only
interested in sitting in the evening at the window of the barn, and
simply, wordlessly watching for hours as the day became night. I
think I know where was coming from!
1222 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jul 6, 2005 9:27pm
Subject: Re: I was wondering... jim_and_his_...
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Thanks for the great posting. The only (Thomas) Merton I've read is "new seeds of
contemplation." Is there anything else at least that good by him that you recommend?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "mmch2122" <mmch2122@y...> wrote:
> My background is that of one who has returned to Christianity over
> the last decade
1223 From: "mmch2122" <mmch2122@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Jul 6, 2005 11:51pm
Subject: Re: I was wondering... mmch2122
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for the great posting. The only (Thomas) Merton I've read
is "new seeds of
> contemplation." Is there anything else at least that good by him
that you recommend?
I do not know Merton's work in depth. I've spent more time with
people he influenced to carry on his explorations that were cut off
by his premature death. One good way to explore is to check out
some of the articles on the "Contemplative Outreach" and "World
Community" websites, then see if any titles appeal in their
book/tape sections. At a minimum, various topics for Googling will
emerge.
This exploration has been a particular interest to me for some time,
so I've collected a lot of materail. Three books I like are:
Thomas Keating, "Open Mind, Open Heart," ISBN 0-8264-0696-3
A basic reference on "Centering Prayer," historical
background, practice, and an account of transformation through the
practice, by a contemporary of Merton, founder of the Contemplative
Outreach organization. Keating extensively uses models from
developmental psychology, speaks of Christ as "divine
therapist," and states that "God and our True Self" as
One.
James Finley, "Christian Meditation," ISBN 0-06-059192-7
Finley was a young monk for six years with Merton, before leaving
the order. In his effort to find a way to live as a Christian
contemplative "in the world," he has been heavily influenced
by Buddhist practices. I very much like his work, and I very much
enjoyed meeting him earlier this year. I attended a weekend retreat
with him in January, and still remember it as a great time, despite
having a bad cold. One of my favorite of all the books I've read on
meditation, but would be difficult to follow without a background in
meditation.
Laurence Freeman, "Jesus the Teacher Within," ISBN 0-8264-1223-8
I'm reading this now. In depth theological musings of chief
current proponent of Christian Mantra meditation. I'm taking it
slowly, it's dense, but a good answer to anyone who has come to
think of Christianity only in terms of social, political and
theological conservatives:
"There are not many gods but one God, not many selves but one
Self, one True `I AM' in which all beings share in Being."
|
Edited by - n/a on Nov 03 2005 12:32:59 PM |
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msanjay75
India
2 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2005 : 1:08:43 PM
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This was certainly a totally different perspective of yoga and quite interesting (though I'm from a Hindu background). Most of the article's arguments were quite strong, but this one line in particular seemed to be missing something:
------------
If one is experiencing stress and needs to relax there are many ways to do this such as going for a walk, a picture show, playing sports, going out for dinner, taking a vacation than pursuing yoga.
------------
IMO this one line undermines his entire case - since it would be fairly clear to a lot of readers by now, through their own entire lifetime of everyday experiences: that these activities (especially a picture show) are merely self-deceptive temporary escape routes - which effectively procrastinate stress instead of actually confronting it :-)
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Edited by - msanjay75 on Jul 15 2005 1:22:10 PM |
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hbar12
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2007 : 05:34:55 AM
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| Give Christians a chance, They're like the rich man who never had to work. He didn't appreciate money, lost it, miss-used it to enslave everyone, but no one says money's bad. Just the miss use. You'll just have to read the Bible yourself, if you want any hope of understanding it. You need the spirit if you want more out of it, it's geared for an eternity. Of course God has revealed himself to "every tongue and tribes and people." It says to "try all things, hold fast to what is fine". I guess that goes two ways. A lot I passed on I've had to come back too. Whatever you do you have to watch your back, it goes out so easily. But as far as ideas go, we don't have too many. We're in a box, where are we gonna go. The Bible was about the Mid East. It has a Yin Yang quality to it only the West could miss. Of course they've managed to ruin it for billions now. The best thing they could do for Christianity is to not say anything and let people be delightfuly surprised in stead of spoiling the end that they don't get anyway. That's so accurate that you can meditate on it and take it to the bank. |
Edited by - hbar12 on Jan 31 2007 06:20:11 AM |
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I was wondering... Yoga & Christianity
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