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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 01:30:26 AM
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http://www.doxasoma.com/FAQ.html
"Excellent distillation on the sutras, Sri Patanjali ... like JPEG, only ... not digital. Hey, speaking of digital, in the 21st century after the birth of some Mediterranean sadhu guy, some woman in a place that's going to be called "the United States" ... you know ... good ol' North Himavananda, is going to relabel your teachings in a language that hasn't been invented yet -- and I think we can do something called litigate ... after the illusion of a certain amount of time has passed, and ... AUM? What do you mean, AUM? Oh. Right then. 'AUM'. Of course. Nevermind."
-- Kirtanman's Great Great Great {...} Great Great Grandfather
Circa 200 BCE |
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DollCarlson
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 12:46:01 AM
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Kirtanman-
I don't feel what I've done with Doxasoma is a "relabeling." Perhaps I am mistaken. I'd be open to engaging in this discussion with you in fact. I have to say that this link was reallllyyyy old...I actually took it offline today after seeing it was still visible. I don't use that document anymore and am hoping the web design looks a bit better now at the very least.
As the developement of this practice has evolved in the last 7 years I've made discoveries and mistakes, sometimes one after another...back to back moments. I have the deepest respect for the ancient practice of Yoga and in no way wish to have this practice seem as though I am merely "relabeling." It is for that reason that I chose to offer this reply to your post.
There are, of course, ancient spiritual practices available to the Chrstian...but the separation that occured in the Western World of body/mind/spirit is so very deeply embedded that in the good ol' North Himavanada we have become almost lost in our dis-integration. It's no coincidence that the highest number of obese Americans also happen to be Christians. We simply do not understand ourselves as embodied spirits, we do not see how our physical life affects our spiritual life.
My decision to develope DoxaSoma came out of my Yoga practice and my desire to see the integration of my faith. As a personal trainer I know how beneficial my practice had been on a physical level but in order to move forward with my Yoga practice I was feeling divided in my spiritual life, not because of "dogma" but rather a difference of how I chose to view the Creator. It just did not jive with my faith structure.
I chose to leave my Yoga practice and wait to see what came to me. The positions of DoxaSoma of course are similar to Yoga Asanas...how could they NOT be similar? There are a finite number of ways in which to move the body to garner the stretch we desire. My intention was not to reinvent Yoga but to develope a practice which would work from within the framework of my faith story. I see nothing disrespectful in this. Please correct me if I am in error.
I do not call this practice Yoga out of respect for the ancient practice just as Christianity does not call itself Christian Judaism...yes, Judaism informed the practice of Christianity, Jesus himself was a Jew but what resulted from his teaching was a movement of faith in another direction...be it better, worse or otherwise.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Yoga has about 4993 more years of development than Doxasoma does...it's all very much a process.
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Moderator note: Website reference -- http://www.doxasoma.com
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DollCarlson
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 09:37:39 AM
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| Thanks for the website add on my post, Yogani...I KNEW there was something I meant to add in there and had forgotten... |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 5:40:27 PM
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Hello Doll,
Thank you so much for your informative and insightful post. I sincerely appreciate the fact that you took the time to reply ... primarily because it helps me to realize the need for some clarification, as follows:
The "dialog" with Sri Patanjali was meant PURELY as a joke ... though with a "punchline" which was hopefully pertinent: per the sputterings of my (imaginary, of course) "great, great ... great" grandfather, someone could view Doxasoma as a re-labeling, but those who truly "get" what you're doing with it (i.e. the also-imaginary reaction from Sri Patanjali) understand that it's all part of the greater whole of body-mind-spirit unity (aka Yoga - from the Sanskrit term "yugam" - to join or to unite ... which gives us the English word "yoke", as well).
My intention was to humorously convey that Sri Patanjali was / would be so centered and aware, the instead of saying, "Dude, stop sputtering, relax ... it's all good, we're all One" ... that he would simply say "Aum" ... and his sputtering student would "get" it.
Ditto the message-thread title ... I almost used a "serious" title, such as "Christian-Oriented Yoga" ... but just as "things yogic" are often willfully bypassed by certain Christians, so are "things Christian" frequently by-passed by certain people who resonate more with yogic paths (a prejudice, like all prejudice, which creates unfortunate walls in the mind of the given person, whichever "side" they may perceive themselves to be on) - and I therefore concluded that a more tongue-in-cheek title might result in a greater number of people investigating the link.
I have actually been wondering how yoga (in all its facets) might be promoted to those of Christian orientation (in ways above and beyond what Yogani / AYP are already doing - namely, creation of an approach which hopefully has few, if any, cultural barriers for Christians who may not be comfortable with anything which "smacks" of yoga, directly) ... and when I saw the DoxaSoma site, I literally exclaimed out loud, "Wow! Somebody's actually doing it!!"
... And promptly started this thread.
Yogani actually took some very solid steps in that same direction (albeit in a very different way) with his book "Secrets of Wilder" - which I highly recommend, especially considering the work you're doing. Ditto Yogani's radio broadcasts (linked from the AYP Home Page) ... AYP is actually a lot more "normal 'merican" than some people may initially realize ... and I would guess you may feel a certain synergy with Yogani and his approach, if/when you listen to the radio shows.
And please know: I have only the greatest respect, and sense of appreciation for what you're doing ... and I sincerely apologize if my attempted humor made it appear otherwise. That this was even possible, is a good and important lesson for me -- and I sincerely thank you.
My one concern at the time, was that DoxaSoma might have taken its approach from a sense of yoga being "sinful", per the statements of several Christian Web sites I have seen over the years - but that was purely *my* egoic fear / prejudice in "full bloom" ... and your post helped to alleviate those concerns.
I do fully understand that creating an independent, Christian-oriented yoga greatly expands the number of people who will potentially be benefited by adopting spiritual awareness-enhancing, health-enhancing, life-affirming practices - such as those you have created via DoxaSoma -- and therefore truly, and fully honor what you are doing.
I hope that helps clarify my outlook.
If you have any other questions or comments, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 6:25:23 PM
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| Also, it doesn't matter if there is any re-labeling involved or not. After all, yoga is so old it's public domain by now, right? Nobody owns yoga asanas, and any method whatsoever that attracts new people towards the connection between spirituality and the body is good. |
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yogani
USA
5243 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 1:37:46 PM
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Hi Doll, and welcome!
Your work with postures incorporating Christian principles is wonderful.
The increasing connection between modern Christianity and the perennial wisdom on human spiritual transformation is of great importance. I view all effective methods of spiritual practice to be part of a great continuum of practical knowledge that can be applied by anyone, regardless of culture or creed.
The spiritual capabilities inherent in every human nervous system form the common denominator in all people.
As Kirtanman points out, the Secrets of Wilder novel was written to help open a door to the Judeo/Christian world, demonstrating the possibilities for powerful practices emerging spontaneously from within a modern western cultural framework, and what the global implications of this can be. To provide clarity for western readers, there is no Sanskrit terminology in the book, and the story occurs in a contemporary Christian setting. It is something of an allegory of the New Testament, taking out the cultural overlay of Roman times, and replacing it with the cultural strengths and weaknesses of our modern times. The struggles the main character and his associates go through in discovering and refining real spiritual practices and the resulting experiences are graphically portrayed, perhaps more so than in any previous book of this kind.
The novel was the first writing I did in 2003, before the AYP online lessons began. Brought up Christian in the USA, I have always seen the practical spiritual methods of both west and east to be aspects of the same whole, and have presented AYP from this point of view since the beginning -- non-sectarian. My hope is that people from all backgrounds will find benefit.
Your website and classes are a wonderful effort in this direction. We need many more doors opening to the truth within.
Wishing you all the best in your teaching and on your path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 10:22:44 PM
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More on "re-labeling":
I don't know if this applies to Doll's system or not, but i wanted to say something about "re-labeling".
There is a little book by Bandler and Grinder, the originators of "Neuro-Linguistic Programming", called "ReFraming". This was one of the original concepts of NLP, and it explains how learning to look at the same idea from different perspectives is a very powerful tool for gaining control of your emotional outlook, or the way you experience the world.
Re-labeling is powerful because it can help people understand new concepts by relating them to something that is already known, such as Doll teaching yoga concepts from a Christian perspective.
NLP is a highly successful motivational and psychological tool that teaches us how our nervous system and emotions are closely connected with our language.
Re-framing is an easy way to gain control of phobias, or empower yourself when needed, but it's really the same as re-labeling to gain control of how you perceive a subject. |
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DollCarlson
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 3:20:31 PM
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Thanks so much for your responses as well, Kirtanman (and everyone)...I appreciate it so much! I will continue to check back here. As always in life, there is much to learn and much to teach.
peace
angela |
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