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 Posted - Jul 08 2005 : 12:37:57 PM
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1023 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:59pm
Subject: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow contractions of the
diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in meditation), and realized
that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions die down, I'm always left
with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both make you feel better. I
figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body to draw out its deepest
primal energy reserves.
Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human laughter or crying...why
people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic contractions....why they're
healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
Interesting, no?
1033 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:06am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
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Hello Jim,
I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in meditation
myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them sometimes
when I see or hear something funny. :)
Interesting subject indeed.
By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at all
just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly. So
here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---
I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor, of
openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening the
belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to come
in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses against
reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.
Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about hardening
the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*? Everything.
Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let go
of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a result
of contraction.
Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is mine
[cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry, our
body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the purpose
of softening the belly.
What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya --- as I
started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing some
hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not even
Monty Python could get to.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow
contractions of the
> diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
meditation), and realized
> that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions
die down, I'm always left
> with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
make you feel better. I
> figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body
to draw out its deepest
> primal energy reserves.
>
> Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
laughter or crying...why
> people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
contractions....why they're
> healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
>
> Interesting, no?
1034 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 0:42pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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But nauli is all about contractions...inherently! As is uddiyana. And most traditions (Zen
Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just firm.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in meditation
> myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them sometimes
> when I see or hear something funny. :)
>
> Interesting subject indeed.
>
> By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at all
> just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly. So
> here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---
>
> I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
> unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
> there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor, of
> openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening the
> belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to come
> in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses against
> reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
> Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.
>
> Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about hardening
> the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*? Everything.
> Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
> when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
> contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let go
> of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a result
> of contraction.
>
> Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is mine
> [cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry, our
> body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the purpose
> of softening the belly.
>
> What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya --- as I
> started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing some
> hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not even
> Monty Python could get to.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast shallow
> contractions of the
> > diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
> meditation), and realized
> > that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such contractions
> die down, I'm always left
> > with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
> make you feel better. I
> > figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the body
> to draw out its deepest
> > primal energy reserves.
> >
> > Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
> laughter or crying...why
> > people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
> contractions....why they're
> > healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
> >
> > Interesting, no?
1035 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:57pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
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Hello Jim,
I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of that?
I've just been explaining how contractions, perhaps counter-
intuitively, can lead to the *ability* to soften what could not be
softened before.....
And nauli in fact, far from being 'all about contractions', stands apart in that it develops the ability to keep some of the muscles soft (uncontracted) while the others remain contracted.
It's really easy to contract all of them, in a very unsophisticated
exercise. Like simply lying on your back and raising your legs.
When you contract some, you tend to contract all. That is easy.
Nauli counteracts this pattern. Nauli is about maintaining non-contraction in resistence to a strong tendency to contraction. People find it very hard to contract one side without the other.
So nauli develops sophisticated non-contraction. That is what makes
it hard to develop --- and, I believe, what makes it so useful....
>>> And most traditions (Zen
> Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just
firm.
They do, but do they say 'keep a firm haru always'? And if they
did, would they be right? I don't think so.
Here's a hospice-related meditation on letting in grief that is
focussing on 'softening the belly':
http://www.aniccahouse.org/htm/budd...ne_meditatio
n_care_santa_cruz_san_francisco.htm
Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual sex.)
It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do it
well.
But it is not necessarily easy to do well. Those techniques that
Yogani teaches are more accessible to most people.
I think nauli can help a lot there, for people who want to try that
method.
-D
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> But nauli is all about contractions...inherently! As is uddiyana.
And most traditions (Zen
> Tao, Tai Chi) teach a firm navel/haru. Not "hard", though....just
firm.
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hello Jim,
> >
> > I haven't actually got those diaphragmatic contractions in
meditation
> > myself, but I have definitely noticed that I do get them
sometimes
> > when I see or hear something funny. :)
> >
> > Interesting subject indeed.
> >
> > By the way, in laughter and crying, the contractions are not at
all
> > just diaphragmatic, but involve so many muscles of the belly.
So
> > here's what I think is going on when we laugh or cry---
> >
> > I think a soft belly is part of What It's All About. If your
> > unconscious mind (to speak roughly) is keeping your belly soft,
> > there is a good chance that you are in a state of Divine Humor,
of
> > openness, of receptiveness. People have noted that softening
the
> > belly is a good technique for letting in whatever emotion has to
come
> > in, whether grief, or happiness. It is dropping defenses
against
> > reality, it is 'Letting Go'. So we have the chinese Laughing
> > Buddha, with his big fat soft belly.
> >
> > Now, what on earth would *contractions*, which are about
hardening
> > the belly, have to do with keeping the belly *soft*?
Everything.
> > Many people who do yoga and body work are aware of the tip that,
> > when you can't relax something at will, sometimes you need to
> > contract it at will, sometimes as hard as you can, and then let
go
> > of that contraction. Then it relaxes, paradoxically, as a
result
> > of contraction.
> >
> > Now, here is my theory [cough] and it is the theory which is
mine
> > [cough] when we get those contractions when we laugh or cry,
our
> > body is doing an ancient, primordial Kriya, which has the
purpose
> > of softening the belly.
> >
> > What put me on to this insight? Recent work in Nauli Kriya ---
as I
> > started to get further into Nauli Kriya, I started releasing
some
> > hardness in my belly that had always been there. Stuff that not
even
> > Monty Python could get to.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > I was going deep in my meditation, and started getting fast
shallow
> > contractions of the
> > > diaphragm (as I sometimes do; they apparently are common in
> > meditation), and realized
> > > that it's exactly like laughing or crying. When such
contractions
> > die down, I'm always left
> > > with a deep calm....similar to the way laughing and crying both
> > make you feel better. I
> > > figured that it was, as with pranayama, a natural way for the
body
> > to draw out its deepest
> > > primal energy reserves.
> > >
> > > Scientists, I've read, don't understand the process of human
> > laughter or crying...why
> > > people across all cultures exhibit these waves of diaphragmatic
> > contractions....why they're
> > > healing....or why they're somewhat contagious.
> > >
> > > Interesting, no?
1036 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation vic
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-Interesting commentary as I am exploring the
softness/firmness of the belly in my practice quite a
bit lately. I had for years learned to cultivate the
soft belly and it indeed does cultivate a more feeling
emotional tone and energetic flow as well as helping
sexually remove the sense of urgency (I like that
phrasing better than "control"). I have observed
though that over the course of the years my belly had
grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
me does not feel very fatty. Working on the lift of
mula bandha is helping and today in meditation the act
of letting the exhale give me more firmness in the
belly feels like a better direction of the energy than
just letting it hang out. Its not exactly uddiyana but
maybe more like energetically connecting teh heart and
pelvis area rather than letting it feel like a gap
there. Hard to describe especially since Iit is still
new to me but definitely a good feeling from firming
rather than gripping the abdomen. bringing the breath
closer to teh spine and therefore encouraging length
in the spine. Maybe not so coherent yet but my
practice does teach me alot from just doing it and
this is one observation..........
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1037 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:06pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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I have observed
> though that over the course of the years my belly had
> grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
> me does not feel very fatty. Working on the lift of
> mula bandha is helping and today in meditation the act
> of letting the exhale give me more firmness in the
> belly feels like a better direction of the energy than
> just letting it hang out. Its not exactly uddiyana but
> maybe more like energetically connecting teh heart and
> pelvis area rather than letting it feel like a gap
> there. Hard to describe especially since Iit is still
> new to me but definitely a good feeling from firming
> rather than gripping the abdomen. bringing the breath
> closer to teh spine and therefore encouraging length
> in the spine. Maybe not so coherent yet but my
> practice does teach me alot from just doing it and
> this is one observation..........
I'm exactly where you are in every part of this. Kinda strange.
I'm currently using with a range of uddiyanas, from rather extreme (with a firm
mulhabanda and asvinibandha, which really rouses the kundalini) to just the lightest
energetic touch off uddiyana, and 2. trying to maintain that energetic uddiyan throughout
my day, and 3. raising my back ribs and spine thoughout my day, too, using the solar
plexus as the lever point...which amounts to a sort of uddiyana, which I connect to #2.
I think we're both suffering from a common iyengar problem: our lift of the front body is
not applied to the back body, which tilts the trunk back and makes the stomach jut out.
Correcting the tilt and the resultant jutting out of the stomach amounts to a de facto
uddiyana, especially since much attention needs to go to the solar plexus to correct this
tilting.
I'm also finding that this correction helps vastly in bringing energy down from the head.
Sorry to non Iyengar people who got lost in that lingo....
1040 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:46am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
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> I have observed
> though that over the course of the years my belly had
> grown a bit (like many men my age) though the rest of
> me does not feel very fatty. >
Hello Victor,
I think another effect is that various yoga exercises (including nauli
kriya) actually develop the belly muscles, especially if done a lot.
This can look like a fatty belly but actually be a muscular belly.
-D
1038 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:15pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
> Hello Jim,
>
> I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of that?
Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing others, too. But until
you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than action, it's very much a
discipline of contraction.
> Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
> prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual sex.)
> It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do it
> well.
I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action as "softening the belly". As with
nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.
1039 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:37am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
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No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.
Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you keep
it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together to
inhibit the orgasm.
Give it a shot ... though maybe that's the wrong word. :)
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
> > Hello Jim,
> >
> > I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> > contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of
that?
>
> Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing
others, too. But until
> you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than
action, it's very much a
> discipline of contraction.
>
>
> > Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique to
> > prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual
sex.)
> > It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to do
it
> > well.
>
> I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action
as "softening the belly". As with
> nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.
1041 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:04am
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha obsidian9999
Offline
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Just to be totally explicit there since there may have been some
confusion --- this approach to ejaculation-inhibition doesn't involve
any contractions anywhere at all. This one is all about keeping a
soft belly, with the attendent emotional-spiritual softness and
openness. Surprising perhaps that it inhibits ejaculation, but it
does.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...>
wrote:
>
> No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
> entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.
>
> Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you
keep
> it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
> inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
> component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
> emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
> prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together
to
> inhibit the orgasm.
>
> Give it a shot ... though maybe that's the wrong word. :)
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
<obsidian9999@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hello Jim,
> > >
> > > I don't know what you mean by 'But nauli is all about
> > > contractions...inherently!'. What on earth is the meaning of
> that?
> >
> > Nauli is performed by contracting stomach muscles. Yes, relaxing
> others, too. But until
> > you reach the level of subtlety where nauli's more gesture than
> action, it's very much a
> > discipline of contraction.
> >
> >
> > > Finally, did you know that softening the belly is a technique
to
> > > prevent male ejaculation? (Thus having a value in spiritual
> sex.)
> > > It's an *extremely* effective one, for those who are able to
do
> it
> > > well.
> >
> > I can do a full vajroli mudra. I wouldn't describe the action
> as "softening the belly". As with
> > nauli, it's about knowing where to contract and where to relax.
1043 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 0:59pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
> No Jim, I'm not talking about vajroli mudra at all. This is an
> entirely different technique. I think it's not as well known.
>
> Part of the ejaculation process is to harden the belly. If you keep
> it soft (and that is not necessarily easy to do) the ejaculation is
> inhibited. You need to get into a good dynamic between the subtle
> component and the physical; softening the belly couples (!) with
> emotional tenderness and the thing is like an ecstatic physical
> prayer. The physical and emotional-spiritual aspect work together to
> inhibit the orgasm.
there's a yoga move, forgot the name, that's sort of the opposite of uddiyana, which
involves hyper relaxing the stomach muscles and results in the belly being thrust really far
outward, almost like a balloon. is this the move?
The other element to add onto that combo of softening, tenderness, and prayer, is a very
strong compulsion of "up". Up the spine. If you just muscularly cease the ejaculation,
you're not using it spiritually.
"Give it a shot"! LOL!
1045 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:26pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation obsidian9999
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> there's a yoga move, forgot the name, that's sort of the opposite of
uddiyana, which
> involves hyper relaxing the stomach muscles and results in the belly
being thrust really far
> outward, almost like a balloon. is this the move?
Yes, no, maybe and I don't know. Seriously. This stuff has been
coming to me only in the last few months, and I haven't separated out
all the muscles and all the components. There are a lot of muscles
down there. Also, the 'subtle' aspect is very important -- whereas
relaxing the muscles may do a lot, it might not be enough in itself.
-D
1049 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:53pm
Subject: Re: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation vic
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Another observation is that if the front belly is
softened but the back muscles (back part of the
diaphragm) are unconciously tight it can make the
belly protrude. I am working with that lately and it
certainly releases the breath and allows the belly to
naturally move towards the spine without contraction.
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1051 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:03pm
Subject: Soft belly, Laughing Buddha -- Re: Diaphragmatic Contractions in Meditation jim_and_his_...
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can you talk more about this, please? how you discovered it, and how you're rectifiying?
thanks!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> Another observation is that if the front belly is
> softened but the back muscles (back part of the
> diaphragm) are unconciously tight it can make the
> belly protrude. I am working with that lately and it
> certainly releases the breath and allows the belly to
> naturally move towards the spine without contraction.
>
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