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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 09 2007 : 3:20:02 PM
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After my "I AM" meditation got stabilized when laying down, I reached the pranayama lesson where it was repeated that learning to sit up would be a good idea for the future, before starting pranayama.
So since I like a challenge I thought why not get over the leg and back issues and starting today I've sat up and must say on the bed with back support (straight back of course) is much more enjoyable than previous attempts earlier on my path, though I didn't see any vision/glimpses and had some difficulty staying on the mantra though I was expecting at least some difficulty. I was already delighted that physically all was fine! Tomorrow I will try to get one inside foot to a tigh and so on.
I have a starter question which may seem silly, what do I do with the hands? I've started with laying my hands palms up on my legs as mudras are for later, is that good? Or do you have other recommendations.
And my more serious question is, why am I doing this  Without digging through the future lessons what benefit does sitting up have compared to my comfortable practice of laying down which I'm used to for nearly 2 years (I don't have any trouble falling asleep). Besides the more obvious position for energy from above/below.
One more question is, I haven't read anything about grounding so I wonder what the AYP stance is on this before meditation. I've always liked grounding as I love the feel of energy coming from mother earth to my feet and legs. Interestingly I didn't ground today as I was sitting in position but still felt energy at my feet in crosslegged posture. Thanks!  |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2007 : 5:42:59 PM
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Hi Dedroidify,
Good to hear your sitting meditation went off better than anticipated..
In AYP we don't worry about our hand position during meditation... just leave it how you feel comfortable.. it is one of those things that happens automatically as you move along. So place it on your lap or knees.. palms up or down.. what ever feels comfortable and natural. Look at this thread.. it has been discussed here..
hand positions
The reason for sitting up and cross legged is in order to prepare for the more advanced stuff like siddhasana.. at least that is the only reason I can think of.. other than the fact that Yogani says .. in lesson 33 .. quote:
Don't meditate in a reclined position, as this can
result in sleep rather than meditation.
...which is not a problem for you, you say... Others will give you good advice on that I am sure.
Grounding before meditation? Not sure what you mean exactly. In AYP, doing your practice for the allotted time, and then going out and living your life to its fullest is considered grounding.. taking walks, exercise is grounding, if too much energy is moving through your system, other things like self pacing, eating a heavier diet, staying away from the forum a bit , staying away from spiritual books and people for awhile, staying active during the day.. are all methods to ground.
We do asanas before spinal breathing.. and in Lesson 71 - Yoga asanas Yogani says..
quote:
Asanas in the traditional sense are for quieting the nervous system. But more than that. They are designed to facilitate the flow of prana in the body, particularly in the sushumna, the spinal nerve. So you can see that this makes asanas an excellent preparation for
pranayama, for spinal breathing.
Soooo... not sure how to answer your question "I've always liked grounding as I love the feel of energy coming from mother earth to my feet and legs.".. but others will chime in I am sure.. If this method that you follow to ground works for you, go ahead and follow it.. I don't know what method you follow.. so I will not be in a position to help you there.. just keep in mind.. if you feel excess energy or get symptoms of overload.. you may want to back off..
Hope these help. |
Edited by - Shanti on Mar 09 2007 5:49:37 PM |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2007 : 6:45:29 PM
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Hey Shanti, great to read from you again and yes went rather well :)
God I just accidentally closed my browser so let's see if I can delve all this back up from memory lol...
Interesting cause I do think hand positions aka mudras are important as they focus on specific chakras. For now I'll keep my palms up after reading the thread cause I don't want to 'overload' a chakra or anything but have a balanced approach as Yogani made clear in the other thread you linked Interesting that it's left up to intuition (and it's many other names) here I had my first mudra encounter here http://eclecticenergies.com/chakras/open.php
Though the wikipedia article is very different on mudras though obviously views differ and some websites aren't always the best source for information.
I misunderstood in Lesson 33 this line: As we take on new advanced yoga practices down the road, there are ways we can get around the lack of crossed legs. Crossed legs are preferable, but not mandatory. I first understood we'd be needing the crossed legs position for more advanced practices. Oops! Speedreading is excellent for speed but not so much for comprehension lol.
Another reason I can assume crossed legs are better is for a more concentrated prana flow and the earlier mentioned above/below principle. I prefer laying down but as I said it's going well with crossed legs and I obviously want the best method, but I'd like to know why it's preferred exactly or generally. Any opinions are welcome.
I'm very well grounded generally as I lead a very balanced life and don't know any spiritual people personally (as in not online), yet, I'm sure.
With grounding my current Reiki healer advised me to always do a grounding method before meditating, as it helps to focus/center/balance/ground one's self, is supposedly safer for possible, occasional, unintentional OBE experiences and one receives mother Earth's healing energy.
In Reiki grounding is very important, I will be attuned to level 1 soon as synchronicity and shamanistic experiences have sort of made it quite clear I need to become a healer, that's something personal though.
Anyway I'll explain what I mean, I'm sure opinions will probably greatly differ on this but here are my experiences, to ground myself when I was less experienced I'd stroke my legs down along two major meridians and swat the energy down to the floor combined with intention to ground myself. Now I can with intention alone send energy to mother Earth and after a few regular breaths I feel her loving/healing energy enter through my feet and legs, a wonderful feeling btw.
Variations of this are and can be used for (guided) healing meditations, where you expell the stale, stagnant energy towards Earth and it gets replaced by new healing/loving energy.
I wonder what other people think about this and wether it's necessary for meditation or not, if there are no objections I'd rather keep doing this as I have an ailment (that I don't wish to share ) that needs healing and mother Earth's energy can only help with this.
Thanks very much for your help so far Shanti.
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Edited by - Dedroidify on Mar 09 2007 7:13:43 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 04:40:57 AM
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Hi Dedroidify,
The method you are using for grounding is fine and should help to disperse excess energy if you tend to fry but of course self pacing is better.As far as sitting practices when one sits in posture(which I don't personally because my knees don't allow it after many years of martial arts.ouch)the root is connected to the earth giving grounding.As asanas are designed to open the nadis then you can see that certain postures open certain nadis and some are more efficient than others for meditation regarding energy flow.Lying down will not give the same 'opening' of the nadis.
As far as healing others, if you have an ailment I would advise you that by giving up your energy to others(and yes I know you've been told that with Reiki you don't do this but that is incorrect)you will 1)take longer to heal, which is the most important aspect of beginning healing. and 2)you will slow down your path to enlightenment as a vast amount of energy is required for the necessary purification.Also as one rises in levels of purification you open yourself up further to take on others ailments which is why you need to draw a fine line with empathy.
L&L
Dave |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 07:56:18 AM
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Hey riptiz,
Ah I'm glad my assumption was partly correct and since today I had further success in sitting posture I will continue it with confidence. Good luck with your knees, I've had trouble myself with those and know what it's like!
Well I don't intend to start healing others untill I myself am completely healed, and even then I can still see what my path brings later for others, anyway that's far down the line. Actually my scheduled attunement is more for improved self-healing directly. I'm not sure about your opinion or the opinion of others on reiki and I guess time and investigation will help sort out what's true, to me anyway. I know one thing though that taking on others ailments is not the intention of a good reiki practitioner.
I'm still not sure about the grounding, I will continue to meditate for a while without grounding as all is going well.
In any case thanks very much for your concern and advice. |
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 08:21:37 AM
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An interesting and educational thread  - some good questions D and some great answers from shanti and riptiz...
Just to pick up one (off-topic) quibble though... with Reiki done properly you do not give away personal energy... Often its not done properly (and essentially people 'try to hard') and then indeed they do 'give away' energy. I have done and do do both Reiki and some Qigong healing. In fact recently I was doing an hour a day of the latter and was certainly drained and tired! On the other hand with Reiki no problem.
Anyway as I say OT - the sitting one is cool ... altho' a caution there is that all the qigong masters I have worked with say do not rush prematurely into the whole full lotus deal as for the average westerner this will cause bad blockages in the hips/knees and lower limbs. I know yogani is not advocating rushing but one problem with all the lessons up there and available is that folks do have a tendency to rush ahead...
Well at least they do until they rush ahead too much, have a problem and then go a few lessons back and really read what our friend was writing 
Peace to all.
Mike |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 2:29:11 PM
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Hi Mike,
Well I co-hosted a Reiki forum for over 3 yrs and had contact with many Reiki 'masters' and over attunement and self-draining of others has been my experience.Incidentally when one purifies by meditation methods the channeling ability far exceeds what Reiki could ever hope to achieve.In fact I have had Reiki masters on my meditation courses and very few could handle the higher energies and that has been just due to changing their breathing and without a mantra!One of my long term students who is a Reiki master says she feels like she is blasted by a power shower by the energies now.
L&L
Dave |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 02:54:02 AM
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Wow, Thanks for bringing the topic of grounding up!
Like you, Dedro, I have learned to make sure I am grounded, and I have been taught to suck up earth energy just by thought. Just to welcome it to my feet makes it flow all the way up my legs and through the whole body. A very different character of that energy - smooth, buzzing, slow and gentle, like the "ant war"-picture on TV when there is no program sort of energy feeling. (Anyone understand? Haha!) This energy is also being picked up while walking in the forest, swimming in water or engaging in the elements of Mother earth in any way. However it is then more subtle and probably not perceived as any kind of "energy" (thinking of Shanti here).
I have noticed clearly that at the start of pranayama (spinal breathing) this earth energy is beginning to be pulled up by muscle contractions in the PC muscle automatically, confirming that the grounding occurs via the root chakra when sitting crossed legged. By habit I then also start to pull it up all through my feet and legs and then I feel I sit steady as in cement for the rest of the session.
My question though... what relation is there between Earth energy/grounding/self-pacing and Shiva-Shakti??????? Are we dealing with THREE energies that needs to merge in a nice blend here? Or is it a "system clash" where terms overlap or are not comparable somehow? |
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 04:52:37 AM
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Riptiz - thanks for your reply - as we are both well OT I'll keep it short as the "whats right and wrong in Reiki topic" can fill forums as you know . Sure as I say many folks drain themselves of energy, some dont, and I havent met anyone who can *really* tell the difference between 'chi' and 'Reiki' . Sure any and all cleansing practices help the body channel more energy easier with less friction...
Back on topic I guess the interesting technical point I dont know is "when" the advantages of being cross-legged on the ground outweigh the disadvantages... As per my earlier post all I have been told is that its after some time of cultivation |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 05:40:05 AM
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Hi,
I'll talk further on Reiki on the correct thread Mike.
BTW during meditation one should not deliberately look for grounding as one is containing the energy for purification.This is why some sit on a non conductive asan and wear a non conductive hat.
L&L
Dave |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 08:46:34 AM
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Well this discussion is surely raising more questions, and to top that I have some more I've been holding back too lol.
Thanks for that emc! Glad to hear you practice it aswell, I'm sorry can't help you with your Shiva-Shakti question as I don't understand it cause I'm not too familiar with Hindu terminology. (yet? )
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
altho' a caution there is that all the qigong masters I have worked with say do not rush prematurely into the whole full lotus deal as for the average westerner this will cause bad blockages in the hips/knees and lower limbs.
Hey Mike , I've started half-lotus today but full lotus will take a while lol! Like I said my knees aren't the best and I'll at least be varying legs in half-lotus for one or a few months before attempting full lotus. Half-lotus went excellent btw and felt exactly the same after meditation.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
with Reiki done properly you do not give away personal energy
That's what I suspected though! As I say it'll be a while before I perform reiki on others so not really a concern either way in the near future. Thank you & riptiz for continuing the reiki discussion in another thread, I'll definitely be checking that out!
quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
BTW during meditation one should not deliberately look for grounding as one is containing the energy for purification.This is why some sit on a non conductive asan and wear a non conductive hat.
Holy tinfoil Batman! I'm not sure I understand your position on this, it is my assumption that in grounding I am only sending stagnant energy to Earth, and receiving purifying energy in return. Hence this is basically the same as containting energy for purification, I'd love to hear other opinions on this. Out of habit I did ground myself this morning before meditation. I feel exactly the same if I do or do not ground myself after meditation btw. And for the healing purposes I think it doesn't hurt to ground myself. Again, some more opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.
Ok and now probably to ruffle some more feathers... unintentionally though lol. I've been using a holosync track by Bill Harris (also included in P. Scheele's Euphoria, again! geez!) of 20 minutes with rain and bell sounds to numb out the crazy neighbour noise of each freaking direction (trust me, it's pretty insane: slamming doors, domestic disputes, elephant-charging of stairs, holy crap!)
I do intend to try the technique of the "power of the subconscious mind" thread to ask my subconscious to notify me in 20 minutes. Interestingly when I had the visions/glimpses mentioned in the "past lives thread" I saw a digital clock display ticking away time twice in glimpses and the right amount of time seemed to have passed! Though the visions/glimpses are gone for a while now I'm adapting to a new position, I think this has to do with different energy flow and brain chemistry with the different positions.
So maybe I'll be cutting back on hemi-sync in the future since the mantra is so easy to use to ignore outside sounds combined with the clock method. But are there objections to using this? My stance is that it only helps to induce a deeper state more quickly, though I assume that it could be much healthier to alter brainwaves with the mantra alone without the aid of such a holosync track.
Another question I have is, is it necessary/or are there objections to align the chakras before meditation? I use a track of Kimba Arem/Andrew Weil from the Healing with Sound & Music album, and go over each chakra with a different vowel sound, and ending with Aum to balance and harmonize them. I like to do this cause it brings me in the right mindset and helps me relax with the breathing before beginning meditation. I don't do it everytime though I try to do it once a day. Again my stance is it can't hurt to align chakras but wonder about other opinions. (I know a quicker chakra aligning method with left hand down the body, right hand up and just going over them and using intention, though that doesn't center me as much before meditation.)
Sorry for all these beginner questions! I never had a teacher and have been dilly dallying with different meditation practices for 2 years before Mike introduced me to AYP a while ago. Thanks in advance for your replies and patience
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Edited by - Dedroidify on Mar 11 2007 10:46:09 AM |
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 12:21:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dedroidify
Hey Mike , I've started half-lotus today but full lotus will take a while lol! Like I said my knees aren't the best and I'll at least be varying legs in half-lotus for one or a few months before attempting full lotus.
Well just to put this bit in context... the most recently I was at a seminar that mentioned this was 8days ago... then the meditation master (who also is a qigong teacher) suggested about 10yrs for the transition from normal chair to lotus
I'll leave some of the older and wiser folks to reply to you on the multimedia AYP-stylee you have  lol.
Mike |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 12:54:25 PM
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| Ten years! lol! There's no such thing as ten years anymore. The future ain't what it used to be! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 2:20:44 PM
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quote:
Dedroidify said:
Another question I have is, is it necessary/or are there objections to align the chakras before meditation? I use a track of Kimba Arem/Andrew Weil from the Healing with Sound & Music album, and go over each chakra with a different vowel sound, and ending with Aum to balance and harmonize them. I like to do this cause it brings me in the right mindset and helps me relax with the breathing before beginning meditation. I don't do it everytime though I try to do it once a day. Again my stance is it can't hurt to align chakras but wonder about other opinions. (I know a quicker chakra aligning method with left hand down the body, right hand up and just going over them and using intention, though that doesn't center me as much before meditation.)
Pranayama/Spinal Breathing will align your chakras without you having to concern yourself about them.
Most chakra aligning medthods I have come across include the crown chakra. Not sure if you have read the lessons on this but AYP does not recommend working with the crown. The reason being that it can result in unstable conditions particularly when raising the kundalini through the very efficient systems in AYP.
So if you are not using pranayama yet but like the chakra alignment exercise a suggestion would be to start including some pranayma before the mantra meditation. See the following lessons:
http://www.aypsite.org/39.html
http://www.aypsite.org/41.html
Namaste
Louis |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 3:03:11 PM
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Oh right thanks Shanti, glad cause Siddhasana seems easier. (I followed Yogani's instructions but mistakingly called it lotus and half-lotus, newbie!)
And thanks Sparkle but I can't start Pranayama untill my I Am has stabilized with my new posture or I'll be ignoring the pacing guidelines of Yogani. Though I should have mentioned that I'd probably quit chakra aligning when the Pranayama routine got added. I'll stop including the crown though, thanks for the heads up!
So two more question remaining, what are some more opinions on grounding and what about holosync (or hemisync whatever you wanna call it), any objections to this?
Thanks a lot everybody for all your help so far |
Edited by - Dedroidify on Mar 11 2007 4:18:23 PM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 3:22:19 PM
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Hi Dedroidify
quote:
So two more question remaining, what are some more opinions on grounding and what about holosync (or hemisync whatever you wanna call it), any objections to this?
Have look here for an interesting thread on Holosync and Hemisync and a good one here on Grounding.
Hope this helps |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 3:39:26 PM
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Thanks Richard, the first had some useful info. I'm not using holosync for any astral projection related activities though. Just for time keeping, lowering the crazy sound around my appartement and getting 'deeper' faster. I rather like it and find it relaxing, not the emotional rollercoaster somebody else described. (Btw I have tried Monroe's hemi-sync gateway program and find it rather tedious and way too freaking long, haven't projected yet but am not really that interested either, didn't have to spend that CRAZY money on either program luckily though).
The grounding thread is about general grounding which I have no issue with, just I wanna know about active grounding methods and wether it's necessary or not recommended and what it does exactly before meditation in relation to prana. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 4:02:20 PM
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Hi Dedroidify,
The Divine Sound recorded by my guru will do much more than the hemisync and for a lot less money.http://cdbaby.com/cd/omdasji for details.
L&L
Dave |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 4:21:34 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion riptiz but I haven't spent any money yet on spiritual stuff except books and don't really intend to in the future. (And as I said I didn't have to spend the crazy money on hemi-sync or holosync, read carefully ).
I might consider it cause of all the praise but one question, does it have a 20 minute track? That's all that matters hehe. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 7:07:10 PM
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Hi,
56 mins of samadhi for me every time I listen to it.The easiest and most effective way of self healing and self development but hey don't let me convince you if you think $20 is too much.
L&L
Dave |
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Swami Vajra
42 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 10:05:07 PM
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Dedro,
Stick with your practices and soon enough you will no longer need any outward crutches such as sense objects (sound recordings in this case). Training wheels are fine for awhile but they must eventually be left behind. You'll know when it is time to leave them behind. |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2007 : 12:59:28 PM
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Thank you both! if anyone still knows about grounding practices before meditation and what they do exactly I'd appreciate it *push it*  |
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2007 : 3:13:22 PM
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D-
If you were at the beginning of the Wizard of Oz and the munchkins had told you that the yellow brick road would take you to emerald city not only would you insist on taking your Ipod you would be asking them whether you could go a slightly different way
One of the most useful things I was told in all my years of various practices is "If the master says do it, do it. If he doesn't say do it, don't do it".
Of course it sounds trivial... but actually like much *real* wisdom its very profound and very powerful (of course providing you choose a real master ... but there are plenty here further down the yellow brick road than yourself who will attest to the fact that Yogani's directions do lead the right way ).
Anyway my bon mots are worth considering - there is some depth behind them... eg just for starters... a lot of the spiritual path relates to the ego doesn't it... Trying to "improve" upon a Master's instructions is just the Ego screaming and kicking
Final advice - get a dress like Dorothy's
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on Mar 12 2007 3:21:59 PM |
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Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2007 : 5:55:25 PM
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ROFL!
Ok, LOUD AND CLEAR! 
And then some lol!
Astronomically great post Mike.
Done!
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
a lot of the spiritual path relates to the ego doesn't it... Trying to "improve" upon a Master's instructions is just the Ego screaming and kicking
I wasn't trying to improve on anything though so no ego, I was just asking questions about integrating my existing practice with AYP but I guess "let it be" is the song to play here!
Over & Out
(Let's forget about the dress though ) |
Edited by - Dedroidify on Mar 14 2007 3:54:00 PM |
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Amaargi
Australia
23 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2007 : 05:01:23 AM
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Speaking from experience, which ended up with me having a burn-out with the energies, don't mix different methods. As Mike says..."If the Master says do it etc....."
Kundalini and chakras are a very powerful energy so it's best to follow one method and just trust...though I know what it's like to have a questioning Westerner mind...I'm like that also :)
I have to do a lot of grounding because I had a premature crown opening which ironically started because I would draw the earth energy up through my feet then up to the crown and out etc.
It took a few years but eventually it caused problems, some extreme. Now I ground by just walking in nature or 'infusing' my aura with natural healing energies of earth while I'm outside. I don't ever work directly on chakras unless specified in the AYP course.
Same as aligning the chakras with meditation or holysync/hemisync - the AYP is designed to take you safely on a pre-determined course, or pathway. Another method will only cause problems or throw you out of sync - do one or the other, don't mix them.
I can't recall which lesson Yogani mentions it in but I think sitting position is required to stimulate the sexual energy with the heel of the foot on the perineum.
Hope this helps..
Amaargi
quote:
Originally posted by Dedroidify
Oh right thanks Shanti, glad cause Siddhasana seems easier. (I followed Yogani's instructions but mistakingly called it lotus and half-lotus, newbie!)
So two more question remaining, what are some more opinions on grounding and what about holosync (or hemisync whatever you wanna call it), any objections to this?
Thanks a lot everybody for all your help so far
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Changing posture from laying down to sitting up
