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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 10:18:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
May I ask if the ecstatic radiance that develops is related in any way to the words "inner sensuality" that is used in samyama?
Has ecstatic radiance anything to do with OUTER sensuality and sexual attraction?
Has the samyama inner sensuality anything to do with developing OUTER sensuality and sexual attraction in a "samsara" style?
Hi EMC:
Yes, the samyama sutra "inner sensuality" is for promoting pratyahara, which is merging sensuality (all the senses) with inner silence. This is part of the process of refinement of sensory perception being discussed here.
While there can be some external sexual energy mixed in with this along the way (a transitional experience), sexuality itself is also being refined to divine expression through our practices, which is what is behind the rise of ecstatic conductivity, ecstatic radiance, and eventually the direct perception of the misty luminous character of bliss consciousness emanating from all things (the shine). And we are That.
So none of this really has to do with expressing or exploiting earth-plane sexuality, if that is your question, any more than the lightness sutra has to do with physically flying across the sky.
We have much bigger fish to fry within, and this wonderful discussion topic gives a taste of it. 
The guru is in you.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 3:40:57 PM
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Here's an artistic rendering of Moses in Ecstatic Radiance upon descending the mountain from God's Sacred Presence....!
www.art.net/TheGallery/Vision/2Moses1.jpg
Baruch Shem Moshe La-Olam! Amin.
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Mar 10 2007 7:01:34 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 7:41:05 PM
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| Doc - When Moses came down from the mountain he was said to have temporary horns which symbolized the light of wisdom that he had received there. One of the few depictions of this in art is Michelangelo's Moses in the Church of St. Peter in Rome. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 10:37:54 PM
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Meg:
That's correct. I just like the first picture I posted because I am inclined to believe that a visible 'Radiance' of the intensity attributed to the appearance of Moses...so bright that it was necessary for him to cover his head and face with a veil in order for the people to even look at him...would likely have emanated from all around his head, if not also his entire body, rather than emanating only as two horn shaped shafts of light. 
But nonetheless, even though these depictions don't seem to match the blinding intensity of 'Radiance' Moses was said to have, here's a few renderings of what the horn shaped radiance you referred to may have looked like:
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/cul...image002.jpg
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug...shmoses1.jpg
http://members.becon.org/~choly/moses.jpg
Doc
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 02:36:16 AM
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quote:
Yogani wrote: So none of this really has to do with expressing or exploiting earth-plane sexuality, if that is your question, any more than the lightness sutra has to do with physically flying across the sky.
We have much bigger fish to fry within, and this wonderful discussion topic gives a taste of it.
Thank you. I need to hear that in this explicit way, because I encounter so many "sprititual" people who, and find so many internet pages that promote expression and exploitation of sexuality as a means to reach enlightenment. Thank you. It is again a feedback to me that my intuition on them being out sailing somewhere else is accurate. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2007 : 09:29:56 AM
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Hi Emc
quote:
Thank you. I need to hear that in this explicit way, because I encounter so many "sprititual" people who, and find so many internet pages that promote expression and exploitation of sexuality as a means to reach enlightenment. Thank you. It is again a feedback to me that my intuition on them being out sailing somewhere else is accurate.
I think if people are exploiting sexuality, then that is obviously not going to get them anywhere very fast. But expressing sexuality can be very beautiful, depending on how we go about it. And it certainly can be a major boost to our spiritual path if we go about it in the right way, which is what the Tantra lessons are all about.
But I don't think that we need get too caught up here on the sexual aspect. I don't feel that this (ecstatic radiance) is really about sex. It feels to me it is more about love (or Love ), and about the expansion of silence. It was when I started feeling these two things in a big way that I started to feel it effecting people around me.
Then the way it effects others, depends a lot on them (their Bakhti, as Yogani says), and where they are at in their journey. They may feel sexual energy, or Love, or maybe other emotions (I don't know), or bliss. I once felt it coming from someone I was a few feet away, and it felt like a drop of nectar fell from somewhere inside me, about 2 feet above the top of my head, and landed in the centre of my head, exploding outwards as an incredibly sweet silver/ gold light. Work that one out if you can.
So someone would only feel sexual energies in the presence of someone radiating ecstacy, if that is where they are at, or what is coming up for them next as their experience of the universe becomes more refined. If Love is coming up next, that is what they will feel. We can of course, feel many things at once... just to make the whole trip more fun.
This is just how it feels to me right now. I hope someone (Yogani/ Katrine) will correct me if I have got this wrong.
Christi |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2007 : 08:18:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
So someone would only feel sexual energies in the presence of someone radiating ecstacy, if that is where they are at, or what is coming up for them next as their experience of the universe becomes more refined. If Love is coming up next, that is what they will feel. We can of course, feel many things at once... just to make the whole trip more fun.
Hi Christi,
for me this is right on target,
and for me I am always curious to find out where is the other person
on his/her path (if I can find out, I am then able to help more)
and also to check out where am I on my path.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2007 : 03:20:24 AM
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Hi Wolfgang,
Thanks for the reply.
quote:
Hi Christi,
for me this is right on target,
and for me I am always curious to find out where is the other person
on his/her path (if I can find out, I am then able to help more)
and also to check out where am I on my path.
I don't know if it is possible to find out where someone else is on his/her path, or to know where we are on ours. I realize that in my last post I made it sound like there was a kind of spiritual ladder, with sexual energy at the bottom, and love and bliss somewhere towards the top. I realized when I wrote it that that was a gross over-simplification of a much more complex process of spiritual transformation. I believe it was Rama Krishna who said that enlightenment was like having an orgasm in every cell of your body in every moment. So if that's not sexual, then what is?
Yogani has also said that at some point we will be experiencing a continuous orgasm, and I didn't see him mention that it ever stops. So that's pretty sexy too.
But on the question of working out where someone else is on the path, I don't feel that if someone is experiencing waves of divine love flowing out of their heart most of the time, that we can say, "Oh, that person is at such and such a stage on their spiritual path..." . I guess if we can attempt to say anything about someone elses' level of spiritual development, or about our own, then it would be based on the degree to which they (or we) have dissolved. When there is a great deal of dissolution present in the being, then the (Divine) Self Shines through, and it is obvious to everyone.
Of course, if it is so difficult to tell where someone else is at (unless they are at the Permanently Shining with Divine Love stage), then it is very hard to know how to help someone else (or even to help them at all), when it comes to spiritual development. This is a subject that I am very interested in as I feel a strong desire to help others on the spiritual path, as I am sure you and many of us do. After following this thread though, I think I would agree with Katrine when she said to not worry about anyone else too much, and be the love that you are.
I'm not saying "don't help anyone" here, because that is how it might sound. Katrine is still putting wonderful posts on this forum, and helping many people in many ways. I feel it's more like, if I think I am at such and such a stage on the path, and someone else is at another stage, and I am helping them, then I am still lost in the dream. I am still playing the same game (albeit on a more subtle spiritual level) of identification, labelling, judging, and being the actor, in this case the "helper".
It is of course possible that Katrine knows that she isn't helping anyone else when she posts on this forum, because she knows that there isn't anyone else or anything other than her own True Self. I don't know? I wouldn't like to judge.
We have to flow, and love, and be who we are, and let our actions come out of that. And if we help others as a result then that's great, and if we don't, then that's great too. But if we become "the helper", then we have created the illusion (again) and we don't help anyone or ourselves.
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2007 : 6:08:28 PM
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Hi Christi
quote:
We have to flow, and love, and be who we are, and let our actions come out of that. And if we help others as a result then that's great, and if we don't, then that's great too.
Amen to that !
quote:
But if we become "the helper", then we have created the illusion (again) and we don't help anyone or ourselves.
Yes.
If I become "the helper"......then being this somebody; this idea of somebody......will limit the expression. I know from experience. I used to make a living on being "the helper". I never knew - until the job change - how much I was bound up in that identity. How can the action be perfectly fitted to the moment, if I am bound up in an idea of how things should be?
If I use as a constant referencepoint "the idea of how things should be".....then how do I know that "my advise" is what is best for whoever i am dealing with? What makes me so sure that my advise is what they need?
Also - and this needs to be faced again and again - what is my motive for helping? Why is it so important for me to be a helper?
For years it bothered me that people close to me wasn't into spiritual endeavours. For years i thought this "atheism" was a "hindrance". But as it turned out, it is the best of blessings. All hindrance is inside of me. If i can accept that, then i can start looking into why things bother me. If I have an idea of how things should be, this always clashes with how things really are. Why would someone elses "atheism" bother me? When faced, that question revealed my own deep mistrust in reality. The biggest atheist was actually me.....because I pretended to know otherwise. And suppressed this very pretence. My "helping people" was actually motivated by the continuity of this "cover up". I am not saying I didn't help people.......but when help happened, it certainly was in spite of me...and not because of me.
So....I don't know how to help people. Bottom line....I don't even know how to help myself. If I can accept this.....again and again accept this......then in the release of the energy caught up in "fixing things that are not as they should be" something altogether different has a possibility to shine through.
This inner conflict (two opposite desires: 1) wanting to help people, 2) desire to be helped) eventually made it impossible to continue the work as a therapeut. I simply couldn't compromise anymore. If I help most when i allow the flow.....then I must spend my time and energy where the real work is needed: To see all that I am not, so that what I am has a chance to seep through. Then....who knows what will happen.
"Atheist"......."spiritual"...... "religious"...."enlightened" ......these are just words. We are what we are.....every single one of us is saturated with the same Being. We all help each other - whether it looks that way or not. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2007 : 9:59:21 PM
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Hi Katrine,
Thanks for this post, it is timely for me as this is something I have been noticing in myself a lot recently, that every time I don't feel good in some way emotionally on the inside, I notice that I am in conflict with what is.
It can be really subtle sometimes, a quiet thought in the background of mind that thinks "he should do it this way, she should act like this or not like that" etc., etc., I notice this going on inside my mind and it doesn't feel good. The moment I accept the way it is, the way they are etc., I feel so much better inside, a load has been lifted off, peace.
I used to think (not too long ago) that I had to solve every delusional thought that came along in my mind, now I feel that life has become more of a constant letting go into what is. The more I let go of expectation of the way I think things ought to be, the easier life is and the better I feel inside. A little more of that innate joy can shine through.
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Mar 13 2007 10:00:11 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 11:19:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
quote:
If I act according to what I understand - truth will immediately respond. The response will be the guide to further understanding. If acted on, the light approaches (because of less resistance), if not - then have I really gained anything other than impermanent comfort? Not only have I harmed "others"; the harm I have done pierces my own heart.
Katrine, I have said it before and I say it again: YOU WRITE LOVELY POSTS! This is my only guide nowadays, and it is the only guidance I use to interpret other's actions! Is the light approaching? Yes or No? Do I get an immediate response of TRUTH?
THANK YOU!
Thanks EMC. I've been reading your archived posts this morning and I resonate with much of your sharing. Thanks for your heart of honesty. Thanks Katrine, your wisdom is like a boulder, solid and wide.
Today during meditation, my heart was aching, and I knew why. It had to do with my own actions: seeking "impermanent comfort" of a sexual type even though it may have harmed others. I'm grateful for that heartache now. It helps me let go and open to pure light.
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Edited by - bewell on May 23 2007 11:28:40 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 3:20:49 PM
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Hi bewell
quote:
I'm grateful for that heartache now. It helps me let go and open to pure light.
Thanks for sharing this.
If I forget......
If I slip....
If i am lazy or confused and choose to fall asleep to the presence because of the difficulties i experience.....then pain happens. Or fear (which is also pain). This pain breaks me. I turn to the light, then. I remember to not forget.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 3:47:43 PM
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Hi bewell,
I am touched by your response to my posts. Thank you very much! I am glad to hear you can resonate with some of what I write. That makes me feel less strange and lonely.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2007 : 03:55:01 AM
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Hi All
I thought I would write an update on where I am at with this radiance thing. Since I last wrote, only one person has ended up with a migraine, and that was in a situation where I was not being at all careful with my energy. They recovered after 24 hours. Since then I have been more cautious and so far, no casualties. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I was concerned about my two daughters, especially the older one who is now 4 years old. I am still very concerned about her. She is opening up at a very fast rate, and I am worried that it is too fast. Obviously she does no spiritual practices as she is only 4, so all of her transformation must be caused by work that she did in previous lives, and by energy being transmitted to her from the people around her and the natural environment (planets etc.). She has started going into trance states (samadhi) with her eyes open. She can hear and describe the omkara nada (ringing sound), and describes how it feels when your heart chakra opens. She describes the swirling energy effects of the crown chakra around her head. What I am most concerned about is that sometimes when I put her to bed in a completely dark room she says that she does not want to close her eyes because the light is too bright. She says that the light is in a pipe in front of her forehead. I am concerned that she will be drawn through the bindu (star) before she is ready.
For these reasons I have decided to spend less time close to her, especially when my crown and third eye are very active. Hopefully this will slow down her awakening.
Christi |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2007 : 05:25:04 AM
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Hi Christi
That sounds like amazing stuff going on with yourself and your daughter.
I would be interested to hear how your daughter is grounded in relationships. Does she socially interact well, engage in physical activities etc.? Do you have her on a vegitarian diet?
It seems to me that you are quit grounded yourself so your interaction with her should not be a problem unless she shows signs of being ungrounded.
On the other hand,if, as you say, you feel concerned when your brow and crown are particularly active - does this mean you feel ungrounded at these times yourself?
We have a son and daughter of sixteen and eighteen in our care and it is a great honour and learning opportunity for us at every level.
I haven't had your experiences so I am talking generally here.
I would look at it two ways.
What is she learning from you
and what are you learning from her through mirroring, I'm sure you know, our children are our greatest and most clear mirrors.
quote:
I am concerned that she will be drawn through the bindu (star) before she is ready.
What would be the consequences of this?
All the best
Louis
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2007 : 2:45:22 PM
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Great questions above from Louis, looking forward to Christi's answers. Pretty amazing experiences from your 4 year old, hopefully she will be able to keep herself open as she gets older.
I have started to see that pipe recently too, it appears more as a hole in my field of vision. I've had a bunch of OBE's during sleep (which I don't usually want as I don't feel rested afterwards) that and recently found myself trying to go through that hole, not sure why I have such a strong urge to do so, not having any idea what's on the other side or if that is even the right thing to do? Any info. welcome.
In regards to energy fields from people and the effects they can have on others. Last week I finally got back on the right side of the equation after a long time over, by heavy self-pacing. I didn't get to enjoy it too long before being introduced to an individual who was apparently extremely awake. I had an hour an a half conversation with this fellow, only to find myself over and burning like I had meditated for 4 hours straight or something. It took me 3 days to recover.
I attribute the going-over from meeting him more to me, it was like I was ravenously trying to devour anything he could give me as I was very open to him. I could be wrong, but if I had been less close to the edge or less open, it likely would have been fine. I’m starting to feel like I’m just meant to be over! Oh well, I'm getting so used to it, I'm hardly bothered by it anymore! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 04:14:04 AM
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Hi Louis,
quote:
I would be interested to hear how your daughter is grounded in relationships. Does she socially interact well, engage in physical activities etc.? Do you have her on a vegitarian diet?
She seems very grounded. She is very physically active and gets on well with other children. I am not worried on that front. She has been on a vegetarian diet since birth.
quote:
It seems to me that you are quit grounded yourself so your interaction with her should not be a problem unless she shows signs of being ungrounded.
On the other hand,if, as you say, you feel concerned when your brow and crown are particularly active - does this mean you feel ungrounded at these times yourself?
Well... occasionally, yes. But it is more that I feel the radiance is working more powerfully through me when these centers are open. Not only that, but chakras resonate with the same chakras in someone else, so if you are close to someone with an open heart chakra, your heart chakra will tend to open more, and if you are close to someone with a very active crown, your crown will tend to become more active too. This is what I have seen happening to people around me. My daughter’s crown, I believe, responds fairly strongly to my crown, especially when she is calm, like when she is lying down trying to fall asleep.
quote:
I would look at it two ways.
What is she learning from you
and what are you learning from her through mirroring, I'm sure you know, our children are our greatest and most clear mirrors.
She has taught me more in 4 years than anyone else in my life. I expect any parent can say that.
quote:
quote:
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I am concerned that she will be drawn through the bindu (star) before she is ready.
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What would be the consequences of this?
Actually, I don't really know. Yogani does recommend in the main lessons not to enter the star until we are naturally drawn through it. I met a man once who I believe had been through too soon. He described the whole process to me, and told me what was on the other side. It had happened, I believe, several years earlier and he seemed to be still in a state of shock, like he had experienced something that was too majestic for his mind and body to comprehend.
Would that happen to a four year old? I don't know. She does say that she is afraid of the light, that it is too bright and moves too fast. I have only seen it a few times myself.
Hi Anthem,
quote:
I didn't get to enjoy it too long before being introduced to an individual who was apparently extremely awake. I had an hour an a half conversation with this fellow, only to find myself over and burning like I had meditated for 4 hours straight or something. It took me 3 days to recover.
Sounds like he was pretty awake!
quote:
I attribute the going-over from meeting him more to me, it was like I was ravenously trying to devour anything he could give me as I was very open to him. I could be wrong, but if I had been less close to the edge or less open, it likely would have been fine.
I mentioned above about the chakras resonating with each other in different people's bodies. The other way that I have experienced this stuff working is simply by looking into the eyes of someone who is very awake. If they are living in a state that is beyond the mind then, if we are ready, that will draw us into that state too. I think that is why darshan is called darshan, coming from the Sanskrit Drish (to see). So we get elevated through the sight of a saint.
Be careful who you look at! I am surprised that he didn't realize that you were on the edge though, and tone it down a bit.
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 11:18:24 AM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with these experiences as long as the child doesn't obsess over them. There could be some problem if the child is advanced and tries to do too much leading with other children who might not be partaking of the same vibrations. It is only natural for kids to share and try to instruct each other. If she plays well, and is steadily processing the charged energy around her, she'll be right as rain. You can spot a difference in a child's behavior psychically and respond intuitively.
I was with a girl for almost 5 years, and spent a lot of time with her daughter while she was training to further her medical degree. This little girl was an old soul, could speak fluidly at one and half, and had an amazing brain. She had the sense of humor of someone three to four years her age, as well as the delivery! Her teacher told us, whatever we were doing, keep doing it. No advice needed. And she told Kalli, I'm not supposed to tell you, but you were my favorite kindergardener. Not to sound selfish, but Rachel was either working or at school for a long time, I felt great honor by what her teacher told us. Never had my own child or experience in a relationship where the girl had a kid, so I knew that following my heart and intuition was not only powerful, but healing, helpful, order begetting.
I have six nieces and nephews, two I get off the bus and cook for at least 10 times a week. Always, vegetarian with a strict policy of eating organic products. I make them do yoga every day when they get off the bus, before homework and play.
Yesterday, my nephew said in front of me to his dad, I wish Zack was my play dad and you were my work dad. My bro probably didn't like that, and when he took his other son to play tennis I told the little one to clarify what he meant. I told him I'm just great for goofing around! ;) Then my younger nephew later that night, on my sister's side, was riding in the car with me. He was very happy, I could feel the vibrations. He said to me, "Uncle, I'm so glad of you", which I easily interpreted as, "you make me glad, Uncle."
Heart vibes, heart vibes. As a child I was so damaged by traumatic fighting. Kids love you when you meet them on their level, which is pure in most cases, aside from strong destructive influences from the environment. A child is a heart that is always under threat by the unconscious or ignorant. A child is a body of intentions without adequate will to perform them, a will without the way. They radiate such joy when they are honored.
Christi, I have perfect faith in you! Your family is lucky to have your heart in their corner.
Many Blessings!
Zack |
Edited by - Kyman on Sep 27 2007 11:32:54 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2007 : 05:29:38 AM
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Hi Zack
quote:
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I don't think there is anything wrong with these experiences as long as the child doesn't obsess over them. There could be some problem if the child is advanced and tries to do too much leading with other children who might not be partaking of the same vibrations. It is only natural for kids to share and try to instruct each other. If she plays well, and is steadily processing the charged energy around her, she'll be right as rain. You can spot a difference in a child's behavior psychically and respond intuitively.
Thanks for the advice, I very much hope you are right, but I will still err on the side of caution.
quote:
Christi, I have perfect faith in you! Your family is lucky to have your heart in their corner.
And thanks for the kind words.
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warmfuzzie
Australia
1 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 8:44:17 PM
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Hi Katrine.
*Sorry for this post being a bit late, but I've just started here, and I was so moved I had to say something. :)*
I totally agree with you about the ecstatic radiance. I was feeling down hearted when reading the thread. I was uplifted when reading your post.
Thankyou
and please keep posting
Richard
BTW Hi everyone and thanks Yogani for this wonderful forum.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 04:32:28 AM
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Hi Richard
Welcome |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 09:50:53 AM
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Wow another Richard, and from Perth as well I was there a month ago and i loved it
Welcome to the forum Richard
Richard  |
Edited by - Richard on Jan 25 2008 09:53:12 AM |
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Ecstatic radiance?
