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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 10:47:45 AM
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One of our AYP group participants has been involved in crown work for years. Now I have explained the mechanics to the group using the following excellent post by Yogani http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1607#12295
In conversation with this person today she tells me she is going through all sorts of stuff. I suggested she might be doing too much crown work and just to focus root to third eye. She answered forthrightly that
"she was not doing any crown work, she was just bringing the energy down through the crown and grounding it to earth all the time"
I seem to remember reading somewhere that "down is up, and up is down" when working with kundalini.
Would I be right in concluding that drawing energy down through the crown, whether or not it be in association with deities such as Jesus, Krishna, The Holy Spirit, The Archangels etc. is still directly opening the crown. That drawing it down has the same effect as going up through the crown?
Thanks in advance
Louis |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 1:19:07 PM
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Hi Louis,
To me crown work is crown work, it is the placing of attention on the crown that is the critical part of the equation. In terms of imbalance, it doesn't matter to me if it is up down or sideways, if the awareness lingers their too long, one can get excesses.
A good question to ask the person in question is why they believe that bringing the energy down to the earth is necessary at all? Is it truly helping them or causing problems? There is evidently some kind of thought there that is inclining her to the behavior, if she investigates it more fully, you might find the inclination falls away.
It is mind's inclination to tinker, we think we can improve things, but where is the evidence? If it feels good once, does it mean it's working or could it be causing us bigger problems down the road? Why not trust that AYP has everything in it that she needs to make rapid and steady progress with the most amount of stability? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 1:34:56 PM
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Hi Louis
I'm wondering too why she would bring energy to the earth. If she likes the downward route perhaps you could suggest she bring energy in thru her third eye instead. That may go easier for her?
Alan |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 17 2007 1:50:34 PM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 2:01:53 PM
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This sounds very much like western mystery tradition stuff.
There is a Cabbalistic practice called the "Exercise of the Middle Pillar" which involves bringing a ray of light down from the crown to the earth centre just below the feet.
This is intended to awaken the middle pillar centers (the cabalistic equivalent of the Chakras) the middle pillar being of course the spine.
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Edited by - Richard on Feb 17 2007 2:02:33 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 5:32:06 PM
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Hi All,
Maybe I can throw a different persective on this topic.Moving energy from the crown to the earth is often used for grounding onesself and can be a good way of reducing excess energies.It is often taught in some Tai Chi schools but the emphasis is not specifically on the crown but in bringing the energy down from the heavens above.
Also in the lineage I study, we bring the energy down from the crown to the root. I have tried the AYP method to see the difference and have found the AYP way actually raises more energy than from crown to root.For me the transition is not as smooth and personally I feel it would cause greater energy surges. This topic was discussed before and I stated then that from root upwards seems more likely to draw energy upwards as if raising the Kundalini.In fact since that discussion I have received further intiation/mantra from my guru and understand that in later stages it is used to raise the Kundalini to aid purification in much the same way as the AYP spinal breathing. So there's more food for thought.Still confused? I thought so. LOL
L&L
Dave |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 5:53:02 PM
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Hi Dave
My practice also brings the inbreath down and outbreath up. I haven't really tried the other way, though I had once planned to try it. I don't bring energy into the earth, though what you say about grounding oneself seems practical. I don't experience any awful imbalances or shocks bringing energy down thru the crown. My reasoning guesses it might be more kundalini activating to breathe in at the root. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 6:25:02 PM
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| By the way, i don't want to be the cause of any AYP practitioner to think anything negative or be fearful of the breathing method taught here. As yogani said last time this up/down issue came up that either way will work. It's good to follow the prescribed method. I learned the method I practice elsewhere. I think either way is probably just as safe, and listening to one's body and self-pacing and is key to a successful and smooth practice and a positive experience. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 17 2007 6:44:23 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 6:32:23 PM
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Hi Balance,
It certainly feels to activate the shakti more by root upwards and I feel the energy immediately in the root chakra this way.From crown to root feels very smooth although as I have advanced in levels I do experience kriyas in the neck now.Also since my last intiation and assimilation of the energies I can bring the shakti up immediately by using intent.
L&L
Dave |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2007 : 7:02:32 PM
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| Nice. For each to be in tune with their own way as a natural and personal movement is good. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2007 : 11:44:14 AM
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Thanks guys
Well now I'm as confused as ever.
Anthem11(Andrew)
To me crown work is crown work, it is the placing of attention on the crown that is the critical part of the equation.
That's how I was thinking of it too Andrew, but seeing the comments of balance and riptiz has got me re-thinking it again.
azaz932001(Richard)
This sounds very much like western mystery tradition stuff.
I think is coming more from her healing background and listening to guided meditation cd's for a number of years.
Riptez said quote:
Maybe I can throw a different persective on this topic.Moving energy from the crown to the earth is often used for grounding onesself and can be a good way of reducing excess energies.It is often taught in some Tai Chi schools but the emphasis is not specifically on the crown but in bringing the energy down from the heavens above.
Also in the lineage I study, we bring the energy down from the crown to the root. I have tried the AYP method to see the difference and have found the AYP way actually raises more energy than from crown to root.For me the transition is not as smooth and personally I feel it would cause greater energy surges. This topic was discussed before and I stated then that from root upwards seems more likely to draw energy upwards as if raising the Kundalini.In fact since that discussion I have received further intiation/mantra from my guru and understand that in later stages it is used to raise the Kundalini to aid purification in much the same way as the AYP spinal breathing. So there's more food for thought.Still confused? I thought so. LOL
What I have gleaned from this, if I am right, is that crown to root is a precurser to, and less problematic, than root to crown.
Have I got it right?
My own experience with this has been outside of the yogic field. It involved many years of invoking deities such as the Holy Spirit, Jesus or the Christ Vibration, Our Lady and for a period the Archangels.
For me this was done naturally through the crown, as these deities appeared to be coming from above.
In Tai Chi we were told to imagine ourselved suspened along a cord coming out the top of the head and going down through the spine to ground. This however seems to quite a stable practice, in my experience.
In the healing circles I was in, it was common practice to do chakra meditations involving the crown and chakras above the crown. In fact healing books and cd’s etc. are full of these.
I see people in the healing field going through their "stuff" and almost revelling in it, as if it has become part of the identity of being a healer.
For me AYP has proved that this is not necessary and I'm looking at any sort of crown work with suspicion, even when carried out by people who have been at it for years and seem comfortable with it.
It seems like they have become comfortable with the ups and downs of going in and out of their "stuff" and accept this as the norm.
My experience with AYP has been to even out the ups and downs and the ride has been a lot more comfortable. This also allows me to gradually go deeper for longer without the consequences of the plunge into “unself paced stuff”.
The answers in the thread have been helpful but somewhat contradictory, so I feel I am no further along the road of feeling confident (despite my own experience) in saying to this person, that what they are doing with their crown to root is more likely to cause problems than using the AYP system of root to third eye.
You may think I’m taking this too seriously, but this person is quite strong and challenging and well informed, so if anyone has any more perspectives they would be appreciated.
Thanks
Louis
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2007 : 11:51:20 AM
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Hi Louis,
You can always suggest she take a break from her "grounding" exercise and see if stopping this activity alleviates her symptoms?
A |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2007 : 12:39:10 PM
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Hi Louis
that sounds like a good suggestion from Anthem. Sorry if i added confusion. This person will ultimately choose her own way, all you can do is suggest alternatives of practice that you feel may be helpful according to your own experience and practice of AYP techniques, since AYP technique is the format of your class. I don't think the direction of pranayama is so much important, but using the third eye instead of the crown may be good to suggest. Not sure what else to say except suggest to maybe step back and relax a little (let go) as you are not responsible for your friend's ultimate choices.
Alan |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 18 2007 12:51:24 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2007 : 3:39:46 PM
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Thanks Andrew and Alan
Yes, all I can do is give her the information and let her make her own decision, the guru is in her, ha ha!
As the fella says, let it go into silence |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2007 : 5:50:22 PM
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Hi everyone, I just found this amusing discussion, and it reminds me something I've read a few days ago. For the tibetans, the muladhara chakra involves 3 points :
for men and women :
1) basis of the spine
2) perineum
Now the 3rd point is the most important because it is the lower end of the central channel.
For the men :
3) at the end of the penis
For the women :
3) at the cervix
This makes perfect sense, because one understands easily that during union, the ends of male and female central channel join together. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2007 : 10:40:57 AM
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| Hi that's very strange because I was sure I posted this in the topic "for the ladies". And now I find my post here. Maybe I'm becoming nuts... |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2007 : 05:33:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
Hi that's very strange because I was sure I posted this in the topic "for the ladies". And now I find my post here. Maybe I'm becoming nuts...
Then it is even more surprising that emc pointed to exactly the thread
you wanted it to be   |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2007 : 06:46:39 AM
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Not very surprising, Wolfgang. We are all one, and I am a medium. LOL! I know Kadak better than h..self!   |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 07:02:50 AM
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sorry for opening up this post again after two years.
but just my 2cents on the subject out of my own experience and that of a realized suffi friend of mine the practice of bringing white light from god or the heavens down to the crown then to the body until the root really stabilizes everything and the activity of an open crown becomes less unstable.
but to be clear about this subject(and again out of experience,) AYP's spinal breathing pranayama practice from root to ajna than back down is the best solution for someone who is having problems with an over active crown.
light and love,
Ananda |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2009 : 8:34:54 PM
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Ananda:
I hope no topic stays closed for long as there is wisdom to share.
Your post reminded me of a practice in the western mystical persuation called "The Tower of Light". And, it is indeed very grounding.
This page has a good explanation of this technique: http://www.geocities.com/solaslite/...f_Light.html
-- jo-self
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2009 : 07:53:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
sorry for opening up this post again after two years.
but just my 2cents on the subject out of my own experience and that of a realized suffi friend of mine the practice of bringing white light from god or the heavens down to the crown then to the body until the root really stabilizes everything and the activity of an open crown becomes less unstable.
but to be clear about this subject(and again out of experience,) AYP's spinal breathing pranayama practice from root to ajna than back down is the best solution for someone who is having problems with an over active crown.
light and love,
Ananda
Thanks for your 2 cents Ananda
The person referred to in the first post has long since left the group and, as far as I know, is still engaging in hours of meditation practice using top down and crown opening methods. Her bhakti is fierce and she suffers the ups and downs of overload to a great degree. She is strong and has her own inner guru and will find her own way.
Christainity and others like Sri Aurobindo and the Sant Mat system seem to adopt the top down principle of spirituality. In terms of suffering through this however one only has to look at the principle of the Dark Night of the Soul to see that there is great pain involved in this path - the burning flame of love is a painful flame as it burns through the illusions and obstructions.
I often wonder how the practices of self-pacing and staying clear of the crown would affect this path - would it actually work, or is it necessary to delve to the depts of despair untill everything is abandoned, even God and life itself, in order to breakthrough and die.
I would be interested in knowing this, for the sake of the person in the first post and others I know with similar practices.
I agree with you Ananda that the safest way, especially when energy is moving, is to stay from root to brow and not go near the crown.
Some peole have to follow their own inner guru completely and being one of those in the early years, I know there is no talking to these people
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2009 : 08:10:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jo-self
Ananda:
I hope no topic stays closed for long as there is wisdom to share.
Your post reminded me of a practice in the western mystical persuation called "The Tower of Light". And, it is indeed very grounding.
This page has a good explanation of this technique: http://www.geocities.com/solaslite/...f_Light.html
-- jo-self
Hi Jo Self
Just thought I'd say that we do this kind of thing in a circle of joined hands at the end of our AYP meditations. We found it more necessary for some than others. If we leave it out some people can be quite ungrounded after the experience of the group energy. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2009 : 1:40:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jo-self
Ananda:
I hope no topic stays closed for long as there is wisdom to share.
Your post reminded me of a practice in the western mystical persuation called "The Tower of Light". And, it is indeed very grounding.
This page has a good explanation of this technique: http://www.geocities.com/solaslite/...f_Light.html
-- jo-self
hi jo,
the practice i do is more simplified but the end result kind of seems the same except the aura focus you guys do early on (that we let happen by itself in due time.)
thk you for chiming in brother.
namaste,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2009 : 2:30:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
sorry for opening up this post again after two years.
but just my 2cents on the subject out of my own experience and that of a realized suffi friend of mine the practice of bringing white light from god or the heavens down to the crown then to the body until the root really stabilizes everything and the activity of an open crown becomes less unstable.
but to be clear about this subject(and again out of experience,) AYP's spinal breathing pranayama practice from root to ajna than back down is the best solution for someone who is having problems with an over active crown.
light and love,
Ananda
Thanks for your 2 cents Ananda
The person referred to in the first post has long since left the group and, as far as I know, is still engaging in hours of meditation practice using top down and crown opening methods. Her bhakti is fierce and she suffers the ups and downs of overload to a great degree. She is strong and has her own inner guru and will find her own way.
Christainity and others like Sri Aurobindo and the Sant Mat system seem to adopt the top down principle of spirituality. In terms of suffering through this however one only has to look at the principle of the Dark Night of the Soul to see that there is great pain involved in this path - the burning flame of love is a painful flame as it burns through the illusions and obstructions.
I often wonder how the practices of self-pacing and staying clear of the crown would affect this path - would it actually work, or is it necessary to delve to the depts of despair untill everything is abandoned, even God and life itself, in order to breakthrough and die.
I would be interested in knowing this, for the sake of the person in the first post and others I know with similar practices.
I agree with you Ananda that the safest way, especially when energy is moving, is to stay from root to brow and not go near the crown.
Some peole have to follow their own inner guru completely and being one of those in the early years, I know there is no talking to these people
hello dear old Sparkle,
to be honest with you i was doing a lot of self enquiry the last month or so about pain and it's relation to bhakti and letting go.
and i went straight ahead with a lot of practices including those related with the crown but to some extent in moderation.
and guess what after it all?! i am really tired now
i was up in the mountains during the last two days and i was thinking to myself Mr. Ananda you have\are one hell of an ego concerning the issue of enlightenment and you would like to become enlightened or realize your own true nature or at least be in a state you experienced for short periods of time where you could say you are bliss; you are joy; you are sugar and honey and everything nice (attachment to enlightenment  )
but to be honest with you brother Sparkle i said to myself i am fed up and i stopped caring whatever comes my way comes.
i am fed up with my ego and with looking for who i am or from where i am yatti yatta.
i already started doing a lot less of my practices during the last week it's just the basics with some crown practices and that's it except with deep meditation where i am doing half an hour now.
bhakti is here and it's crazy as always but i am tired of feeding it.
i feel like i am at a dead end and guess what i have been here before and good stuff usually happens after being here but bcz of being so much aware of the process this time i don't really know if anything will come out of it.
and i know that this is close to what is called rock bottom in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment for one who does spiritual practices and a great place to be for someone who is into advaita or a path of devotion bcz of the story of surrendering.
but the hell with it all at least for today cz i am done, there is the feeling of being sick and tired of it all at the present moment and i just want to live awake and enjoy every moment in peace and wether alive or dead in the end perhaps i'll reach that which is so called enlightenment.
but then again i might wake up at 4:30 am tomorrow and start doing practices like a crazy bhakti again this is how my ego is playing games with me these days using my strongest weapons (bhakti and practices) against me "just at the moment of total surrender i'll get back into action."
sorry for the long post my good friend, i am letting go of some steam you may say.
maybe what i am going through is due to overloading and i need to do some self pacing for now and my body is automatically pointing me towards that who knows.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 1:20:25 PM
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Hi Ananda dear brother
quote:
and i know that this is close to what is called rock bottom in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment for one who does spiritual practices and a great place to be for someone who is into advaita or a path of devotion bcz of the story of surrendering.
but the hell with it all at least for today cz i am done, there is the feeling of being sick and tired of it all at the present moment and i just want to live awake and enjoy every moment in peace and wether alive or dead in the end perhaps i'll reach that which is so called enlightenment.
It is easy to write something like this, but behind it can be a great dept of pain.I hope you are ok?
Knowing about it doesn't help when in this space, all the knowing has to be given up, all ideas have to be given up, untill stripped bare of everything, all love, all spirit, all friendship, all knowledge, everything, and even then the very idea of all the above has to be given up and the idea behind that ......
And when you think you have given up everything within, give up this thought also, you might be very lonely, you don't even have God or inner silence or anything. You can practice and pray all you like and this will bring you deeper and deeper until it is unbearable, untill you are on the scrapheap of life. If you don't practice it is still unbearable and all you can do is reach out and cry for help.
It's not the path of AYP, but if you are there it is your path.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 2:09:04 PM
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hi Sparkle,
it seems it is, and ayp is part of the whole.
about the pain oh yes there is pain indeed, a pain for a beloved who comes for a short time and then leaves me dry to suffer and ache for his presence even more but i accept that i can do nothing but accept it and surrender to his will cz i am his with or without my consent.
i am a big bhakti in case you haven't guessed it yet, i was very involved in christian and muslim suffism and still am to a certain degree and this path or search for enlightenment and it's experiences have chosen me by itself due to some life experiences starting my early childhood in the lebanese civil war where i had my first encounters with the state of witness.
i didn't come looking for this in the beginning but here i am now i got hooked.
about my personal life everything is going well, i can't complain actually i have it too good but as you know it isn't all there is it's just smthg complementary you enjoy things for a while or you desire things and when you have them wait a little and then you'll need some more or smthg new...
and i am thinking the same these days about all them samadhi and peak experiences and ecstatic bliss and ecstatic breath, they seem to be like something normal now not quite so unique and a prize as before.
and sometimes i feel so empty bcz of my practices but with no euphoria to add on to that emptiness.
so i am complaining and crying out for help on my spiritual path for smthg or someone a shortcut to heaven you may say (a magical bullet!)
about surrendering, i can't do anything but to surrender cz i already did all i can and still am going to i won't give up.
thk you for the support my good friend, and sorry for being such a big nag these last two days i should look up to the people and saints who made huge sacrifices on their path and thk god for what i've been blessed with.
take care brother,
Ananda |
Edited by - Ananda on Mar 30 2009 2:15:12 PM |
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Crown to Root
