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Jeanjean82
France
31 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 05 2023 : 4:01:26 PM
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Hello,
i'am dealing with a question about the fact to be present.
You can see a lot of people urge you to be present. Up to now, i consider just doing my yoga "job" (Spinal breath + Deep meditation + samyana) and then just live my life and give me a break about what i have to do or not to do to advance on the path. Not a bad method i think.
However, very often i have to deal with "monkey mind". On one side i consider that it is normal and with time witness may emerge, on the other side i practice meditation since 3 years (not a lot from a certain point of view i know) and sometimes my mind wanders again uncontrollably and i wonder if it is not a resistance to fully live my life.
So i wonder if some constant effort to be present (that is to say avoid to be in the past or in the future) could be a good thing and will not be contraindicated with the ayp work.
Indeed, it seems to me that "forcing" me to be present may be a form of avoidance of what naturally emerge from your nervous system...
Any comment?
Thanks! |
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Walter
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2023 : 01:00:38 AM
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Hello again, Jeanjean.
What you have called ‘a constant effort to be present’ is, in my view, the very essence of our journey. I very much hope others will agree with this, but other voices also welcome.
I wonder how you, personally, experience ‘presence’. There is ‘being present’ and ‘Being Present’. You might say there is also a ‘being present’ and a ‘BEING-PRESENT’.
As I see it ‘being present’ (normal, ordinary font, lower case, as I type this) is what you might answer to a roll call. I affirm that my body is ‘here’, ‘now’, and, just incidentally, right at this moment (and only at this moment), so too is my ordinary mind (my attention), as it had necessarily to be in order to hear and to answer to my name being called. It may be, however, that I was so lost in my thoughts (monkey mind) that I hardly heard and almost unconsciously answered to my name (being present, even smaller font, a state of consciousness closer to ‘absence’ than ‘presence’; closer to sleep than awareness). The ‘self’ that is ‘present’ in these, as in most ordinary, everyday experiences, is our usual state of consciousness, my/your self that we refer to often, mechanically, without thought, and, to be blunt, without really ‘being present’ at all. We do not ‘locate’ this little self as really here, now. Actually our attention is flitting all over the place to the exclusion of any real sense of self, or presence. Unconscious absence (of real sense of self) would be more apt.
‘Being Present’ is a higher state of consciousness, one we are trying to cultivate. It is a state of attention in which we are aware of our fleshy bodies together with a range of ‘experiences’ (interpretation of, and responses to, signals received from both outside and inside) of the body. We are aware of our selves and of our experiences simultaneously. We really know and are vividly aware that I am here, now. Put simply, I AM. The Gurdjieff system of ‘self observation’ and ‘self remembering’ focuses on this route to self knowledge and spiritual awareness.
But I tend to regard this as still in the realm of duality. I (subject, the seer/knower) am aware of (verb, the experiencing process) my self, here, at this moment (objects of experience, including space and time). At times - if I have understood correctly - one may be blessed with a yet-higher state of consciousness, which one might term ‘BEING-PRESENT’, all three (seer, act of seeing and what is seen) may be realized as one Whole, without distinguishing subject, verb and object. This, I would consider to be the realm of Non-duality, Unity. Living continuously in such a state of Higher Consciousness could probably be regarded as our ultimate goal. Meantime, fleeting glimpses are the most that the majority of us can hope for, these to be humbly and gratefully received should we be so graced on rare (for most of us), but invaluable moments.
So yes, Jeanjean, a constant, continual, and above all, conscious effort to be Present, at all times, every moment of the day, is, in my opinion, almost the be-all and end-all of our spiritual journey. This is well beyond most of us, including myself, but I believe all such effort will advance us a little further along the Way.
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Edited by - Walter on Jan 07 2023 1:19:32 PM |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2023 : 7:07:15 PM
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Jeanjean, I can share in your frustration with not yet having the capacity to remain present. I suspect this fits with Yogani's milestone of abiding inner silence. It does seem from my readings this is a byproduct of the practices and something you can't rush. I have inner silence more than I did a couple years ago, yet I get swept up in my worries and identification with emotional states.
Walter, I love your take on levels of being present. |
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Jeanjean82
France
31 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2023 : 10:55:01 AM
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Hello Walter and Interpaul, nice to tchat with you again!
@Walter i agree with you, i will more precisely specify the "be present".
According to my experience i consider two way to be present. The first one i can define as a "spiritual" one (the famous witness), it may be the result of daily yoga practice. I personaly don't experience "higher" state of consciouness for the moment (state of unity ect...).
The second one is more related to focus your attention on the here and now and avoid wandering in the past or future, for example listen to nature 's noise or listen to the body sensation or feeling, use your differents ( and classic) sense to see, hear, touch, feel the world.
It seems to me that the second one could help in a certain way (avoid mental wandering and stop feeding stress thought), maybe with practice you can develop some "good" mental habits which may lead to many positive result in the daily life.
However, i wonder if this way to focus the attention on specific thing is not a form of conditioning (not a "let go" attitude and maybe a manner to avoid/remove or not confront to bad/stress feeling). Moreover, sometimes it seems to me i have a mental overload in order to be constantly "present".
Maybe, as @Interpaul say, i have to do my practice and be patient (thanks Interpaul for your message which reassure me) or maybe i could consider the second way to be present in a specific (and limited) session practice (during my daily walk for example) and the rest of my journey, just live with the high and the low of the life...and be patient.
Bye
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2023 : 06:41:09 AM
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Dear Jeanjean,
Being present certainly seems to mean different things to different people.
I recommend you stick with Yogani's instructions: Do your twice daily sittings, then carry on with your life. It certainly worked for me.
Being present is an effortless state and cannot be brought about through concentration and self-coercion of "being present". It is a letting go. A natural letting go of thoughts as the arise into Inner Silence (the Witness), so that Inner Silence remains present, clear and forefront.
Enjoy the journey.
Sey 
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Jeanjean82
France
31 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2023 : 11:23:43 AM
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Hello,
I think you are right SeySorciere. I guess i have some difficulties to let go my will to control. Control over my emotional state, over job opportunities, over health, over a "better" future, sometimes there are a lot of dissatisfaction here. At some point maybe i have to consider i do my best and stop trying to add or modify method too often.
thanks for your kind response
Bye |
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