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Gaetan
France
4 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 03 2021 : 09:01:55 AM
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hey hope everyone is well 
Ok so guys I would like opinions from people who have read some books or listened some of Krishnamurti's conferences
I've dived into Krishnamurti's books recently. what strikes me is that in some ways, what he is saying is so clear and so confusing in the same time. there are many topics I would like to talk about, about his sayings, but today I'm focusing on MEDITATION.
His mindset about meditation seems so different from mine, and from AYP's practices (from my opinion) .
In his book "freedom from the known", he kind of sweeps breathing practices, DM with repetition of whatsoever mantra or word.
I quote (I've read the book in French so I'll try my best to translate) :
";...there's an other method which consist of giving you a word and telling you that if you repeat it for a certain time, you'll have an extraordinary transcendent experience. It's a nonsense. It is self hypnotism. (...) It's a well known phenomena in India from thousand years ago, which is called mantra yoga. With repetitions you can incite your mind to be kind and sweet, but it won't be less of a mean, miserable mind."
It is just a small sample of is way of meditation but for those who've been reading this book, what are your thoughts about this ?
He also say something very interesting :
"Meditation consist of being conscious of every thoughts, every feelings ; not to judge if they're good or bad, but to observe and to move with them. From this observation, we start to understand all the motion of thoughts and feelings. From this lucidity is born silence."
Wich is something you learn in the very first lessons of AYP DM for exemple.
Peace on you all 
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2021 : 11:16:50 AM
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HI Gaetan
For the majority of people, "being conscious of every thought, every feeling" requires some training. Meditation techniques are a bit like going to the gym before you're able to do more with your muscles throughout the day. A good meditation technique fulfils the role of mindfulness training (among other things).
Thinking that we've already got there, that we can just be mindful from this day onward just because we wish to be, will often just create the delusion that we are progressing towards enlightenment. Thinking your way to enlightenment as opposed to real enlightenment is a danger that crops up at various stages along the path.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaetan
being conscious of every thoughts, every feelings ; not to judge if they're good or bad, but to observe and to move with them. From this observation, we start to understand all the motion of thoughts and feelings. From this lucidity is born silence."[/i]
For some people it might. If they are gifted with some inner silence to start with, it could work. But for many people, focusing on thoughts just generates more thoughts.
You might find Lesson 84 useful, in case you have nor read it already: www.aypsite.org/84.html |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Mar 03 2021 11:25:57 AM |
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alain
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2021 : 12:32:54 PM
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I agree with Krishnamurti, But in AYP we dont teach mantra meditation, we teach Deep Meditation, and you only use it twice a day for 20 minutes each time. that is not excessive. Traditional mantra meditation is different, ppl spend hours repeating mantras, the more the better, during mantra yoga, also called japa yoga, the practitioner has to count the number of time he repeats the mantra or he use beads. That is what I think Krisnamurti means. That is not what we do in AYP.
AYP works better when practiced integrally without mixing it with other traditions.
alain |
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Gaetan
France
4 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 06:46:03 AM
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Hi!
Thanks BlueRaincoat, I've just read the lesson 84, it was useful indeed.
I think I misundertood the real message of it. Anyway there probably are many things that I still can't understand from Krishnamurti's words, obviously, as I can't have the same perception as him.
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 07:12:12 AM
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Hi Alain,
Welcome to the forum! Nice to have another AYP teacher here.
I agree with you: I think that Krishnamurti was talking about japa meditation, in which a word or phrase is repeated, while AYP teaches mantra meditation using the sound of a word or phrase. These two methods promote different paths, with japa meditation being on the bhakti (devotion) path, and mantra meditation going on the raja path. And there is definitely overlap between spiritual paths.
It might seem non-sensical for someone who did not try it, but I spent some years doing the prayer of the heart, which is a Christian japa meditation, and it does work.
Simply hearing spiritual teachings is not enough for most people, but it works for some. This is the jnana path that Krishnamurti followed. It is not a simple path. As a Tibetan proverb says, "Do not mistake understanding for realization, and realization for liberation." 
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 11:45:11 AM
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Hello Gaetan
Krishnamurti is right but it is hard for most of us to start jnana yoga first.Better to forget Krishnamurti for now and see to which practices you inclination takes you and stick to them whether bhakti or raja yoga or..
With time and maturity we evolve and sometimes our practices evolve to something else...all in due time |
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alain
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 11:56:44 AM
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| Thanks Blanche, I didn't know that the public forum was that active. The guru is in you. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 1:17:53 PM
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Hi Gaetan,
You have received good advice from others already. I would agree that it does sound as if Krishnamurti is talking about mantra japa- the continuous repetition of a mantra in the background. There is no reason to believe that he studied mantra meditation. There is no mention of this in his biography.
This is what Yogani said once about the practice of mantra japa:
quote:
There is a big difference between a "meditation habit" and a "mantra habit." One naturally enlivens our normal daily activity with abiding inner silence, while the other divides our thought process between constant mantra repetition and normal activity (which limits the mantra as a vehicle for cultivating inner silence). People with a mantra habit sometimes have difficulty learning the simple procedure of deep meditation because they are so used to mechanically droning on with mantra during all other activity, giving attention to both (dividing the mind), which is not meditation. This is discussed in the deep meditation book.
Which is not to say continuous japa is not useful for some, but it seems to be a small minority of those who use it.
It boils down to the statistics. We aim for reliable results.
The guru is in you. [Yogani]
From here:
Krishnamurti, meditation and mantras
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 1:30:05 PM
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Hi Alain,
Welcome to the forums!  |
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American Baba
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 5:13:25 PM
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| Good to see you here Alain! |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2021 : 9:38:02 PM
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| Alain |
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alain
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2021 : 07:36:55 AM
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Hi everyone, perhaps we will meet online in a zoom retreat or class. alain
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2021 : 7:58:21 PM
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Gabereal
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2021 : 01:11:02 AM
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| I personally feel he’s all talk |
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jclone
United Arab Emirates
61 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2021 : 08:35:31 AM
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I feel krishnamurti is right.
Krishnamurti and Buddhism (for me) is understanding about yourself. What is desire fear lust.
Krishnamurti said something like : when you understand how bad are thought, you just cut them.
Buddha said : to remove thought (ego) we have to cut the fioul. So cut anything can create to us desire. |
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Meditation according to Krishnamurti
