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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 31 2006 : 6:58:26 PM
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I have had a lot of energy work done and am experiencing a lot of
vivid and lucid dreams. other syptoms make it sound like I am having Kundalini experience. Are dream disturbances a usual part of kundalini?
I have also been doing some crown work, which I guess I should stop.
My yoga teacher teaches ipsalu tantra kriya yoga. She has me meditating to the om mantra and doing hong sau breathing.
AB |
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sboney
18 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2006 : 8:27:04 PM
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| Anytime I really gear up my practice or meditate right before bed my dreams become very lucid. In fact I found this group searching for answers to a dream experience. In that case it was somewhat troublesome and I reached out to Yogani after searching the internet for someone who could diagnose spiritual/energy symptoms. Yogani said sounded like a "premature crown opening" and really put my mind at ease about what was otherwise a confusing experience. |
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Alexander
27 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2006 : 8:38:44 PM
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everytime i started a new kind of energy work, my dreams became more vivid and clear.
someone told me, this wasbecause the conenction between your higher bodies and your physical brain got purer and cleaner. as a result dreams seem to be more intense and you remember them better.
namasté |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2006 : 9:12:59 PM
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When we realize that we are asleep, we no longer dream - but reach a state of consciousness, Turiya, which transcends AUM: A - Awake. U - Dreaming. M - Deep Sleep.
quote:
The Mandukya Upanishad defines turiya as follows,
"The fourth state is not that which is conscious of the subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, nor that which is all-sentient mass, nor that which is all darkness. It is unseen, transcendent, the sole essence of the consciousness of self, the completion of the world."
Dvaita (Vaishnava) concepts
Four states of consciousness
quote:
Turiya represents consciousness free from material influence. The idea is that consciousness, of which the atman is constituted, exists in our wakeful state of material experience, as it continues during sleep. In sleep we dream and experience the mental realm, whereas during our waking state the physical plane has more bearing on our lives.
Upon awakening from deep dreamless sleep one remembers existing in that condition. This is evidenced by the common expression, 'I slept well!' One cannot remember something one has no experience of.
Thus in deep sleep when intelligence is transformed by tamo guna, the self continues to exist, as it does when intelligence is transformed by rajo guna during the dream condition and during the wakeful condition when intellect is transformed by sattva guna. The self is thus independent of the body and mind. If the physical and mental realms were to shut down, the self would continue to exist. This we know from our experience in deep sleep. Realizing this involves entering the turiya.
Bhagavan as turiya
Bhagavata Purana 11.15.16 describes Bhagavan with the words turiyakhye (the fourth), the meaning of which is found in the Bhagavad Gita 7.13:
tribhir guna-mayair bhavair ebhih sarvam idam jagat
mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam
"Deluded by the three [gunas], the whole world does not know Me, who am above them and inexhaustible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
I'm still asleep:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Dec 31 2006 9:27:33 PM |
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 2:16:39 PM
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Well from what little I understand from your responses, it seems like all of the above is true. What do I do about it, ground? I think entering the fourth state of conciousness is fun and all but I need some rest. I noticed it all started back up when I did the OM mantra out loud so I will stop that for now.
As usual I get in water deep enough so I can't wade. |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 8:07:56 PM
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ab25,
I will suggest you to understand the difference between raising the energy and lowering it. Kundalini jagran is raising energy - it is making it 'urdhwareta' or yourself an 'urdhwareta'. When you merge with desire, you are desire itself - you need body to fulfil it - you ready yourself for another cycle of life. Ipsalu tantra is abberation of the path. Will it give you feeling of Kundalini - surely it will - there are many ways to experience K. Will it lead to destination and bring you out of the cycle (and self realization) is entirely different story. Of eight Indian Philosophies, no one ever excelled through - Charvak(or Carvak) philosophy - yavad jivet sukham jivet philosophy ("So long you live, live merrily.").
If physical boundaries are your reasoning - get into Kaula Tantra. If it make you adept and not a bootlegger(excuse me for my language).
Turiya is not possible when you drive in from side of physical desires - or if possible - it will take a Krsna to get it done. (He was Yogeshwar - that is another argument from purists - precisely why ISCON/Bhakti Yoga folks lost Prabhpad in course of time and became parrots.)
I don't think you need to cut your practices if you are wasting it on physical fulfilments, no amount of practice will ever hurt you. Desire is worst drain of all.
Lucid dreaming can be attained by a practice of few weeks to few months - it is not Kundalini jagran. If you can post your other symptoms - it will be easy to decifer your state.
P.S.
1. These are my observations and experience - take is from a person who has crawled on a million miles course for a while. Experts know it better.
2. A nice piece on the abberation:
A mathematician, an engineer and a physicist sat around a table discussing how to measure the volume of a cow. The mathematician suggested the use of geometry and symmetry relationships of the cow, but his idea was rejected on the grounds of being too time consuming. The physicist suggested placing the cow in a pool of water and measuring the change in the height of the water(like Archimedes), but his idea was rejected on the grounds of impracticality. "It's easy," said the engineer. "We'll make an assumption that the cow is a small sphere, calculate the volume and then blow it up to the actual size." I bet he was an electrical engineer. 
3. Start with first lesson of ayp, you will find many more lights as and when you are ready for it. All the best. |
Edited by - aditya on Jan 01 2007 8:17:03 PM |
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 8:23:17 PM
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Lucid dreaming can be attained by a practice of few weeks to few months? Wow
I entirely agree with point 3 btw
All the best for the New Year aditya! |
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 9:37:34 PM
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I think we are all a little confused, especially me. I am being led by spirit. I practiced shamanism for 3 years, then I was led out of shamanism and into some personal energetic healing( I became my own shaman) for another year or so, then I signed up for energetic healing lead by my higher self. Then when I was lost a guru appeared.This guru teaches Ipsalu tantra, so in a way it chose me or was chosen for me.
I am a confused by aditya's post because I have not stated any of my desires. I have only stated what is happening to me as a result of my
energetic work done in different methods,shamanism and whatever you call what was done to me by spirit. It is my understanding that my previous work has accomplished a lot of the karmic goals of yoga.
As far as cutting my practice, I think 5 min. of meditation a day is
cutting it pretty far.
I am only into yoga for a few hours total in my life, it seems like a good way to learn meditation and energy flow. |
Edited by - ab25 on Jan 01 2007 9:59:55 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 10:14:00 PM
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Hi Ab25, welcome to AYP!
quote:
Are dream disturbances a usual part of kundalini?
When kundalini first became active for me I began to experience dream and sleep disturbances. For me a good solution was to meditate further away from bed-time. So finishing up your evening meditation and then going right to sleep might contribute to sleep disturbances as the inner energies are stimulated and haven't had time to balance out.
Self-pacing comes to mind as well. Not sure what your overall routine is like, but if you are adding crown practices to a lot of other energy work you could be over-doing things. Crown practices can be very unstable and can cause a lot of difficulties for you especially if you keep them up for some time without being ready for them. If you have too much energy activity you might need to "self-pace", please see http://www.aypsite.org/MainDirectory.html for more information.
Since you are only doing 5 minutes of meditation it is not very likely that this part of the equation is the culprit, perhaps have a look at whatever other energy work you are doing and consider cutting back, especially with the crown practices.
Best of luck to you,
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Jan 01 2007 10:17:53 PM |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 10:45:46 PM
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Thanks yoginstar for wishes.
If you like to learn- here is something:
http://cre.ations.net/creation/face...reaming-mask
This one can help too:
http://www.bwgen.com/
Try it before you hit the bed.(I have tried it - you will remain awake like going in the water and coming out). Try swamij's CD - www.swamij.com - I have tried this one too. This CD will not give you heavy head(unlike bwgen). Basically any Yognidra CD will do it.
Third way:
There is a chant in Durga Shaptsati - someone could not just see lucid dreams but actually see things happening in past and near future. She dropped it as it was interfering with her life. I would not like to put it here as it is not per the spirit of forum, but you may find it in any Durga Shaptsati book.
These things are very easy with tantrik methods - you will be amazed to see it.
In lucid dream - you induce sleep with concious controlling it, if you try to enter sleep first and then control it - it is impossible. The time taken master it is the time you need to get lucid dreams. Try Yogani's spinal breathing for a while then get in meditation and then induce sleep. I am not sure if it right thing to do or not though, but it allows to control yourself in what you call sleep. It is not normal sleep - it is controlled one. When people meditate for a while they can wake themselves in predecided time. Lucid dream is one step more.
Months are pretty long time - allow 4-6 hours/day (which is mild effort in meditation as experienced ones will testify) - you will be amazed at the results.
I will give you a parallel - I tried watching aura for years but it was futile. One day I stepped out of my office, went to Borders next block, picked an aura viewing book. Read few pages and left it there - it appeared crap. In the evening I thought of giving it a shot. Tried few times - I failed. But I could feel something is there, very close to human body. Third day I tried again and I could see it. If you practice Reiki, you will be able to see it in 21 days or so(as by product - you don't even try to do it). So, see it is not objective alone, but the method which makes difference. Hope you get the point.
Best new year wishes for you and your family too. |
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 10:52:56 PM
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All other energy work has been stopped for one month only meditation is going on now. My only symptoms are tight jaw and sleep disturbance. I alternate from being tired from no rest and extreme energy flow. It calmed down until I started using the out loud OM mantra. I have overdone something, I was told it will take one to three months to rebalance.
I thought meditation would calm me, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think the silent meditation was less disturbing. |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 10:54:33 PM
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ab25,
Sorry if I confused you. I would like to understand what does it mean when you say - 'being led by ghost' and 'guru appearing'? Is he/she a physical guru or a guru found in different plane? Please elaborate.
I would like to understand your methods, please feel free to provide pointers.
quote:
Originally posted by ab25
I am only into yoga for a few hours total in my life, it seems like a good way to learn meditation and energy flow.
Welcome to the world of light - welcome to Yoga. |
Edited by - aditya on Jan 01 2007 11:06:44 PM |
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 11:00:33 PM
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aditya:
I want the lucid dreaming to STOP!
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2007 : 11:12:36 PM
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I was lead to a real person guru by a spirit(ghost?).
Does this seem strange to you?
I don't really understand my methods. I read that yoga stems from shamanism. In shamanism work is done by spirits.
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Edited by - ab25 on Jan 01 2007 11:19:21 PM |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 06:49:03 AM
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Yes that is strange for me. I would like to read more about it - allow me some more time. Meanwhile start with reading ayp - you will find tons of diamonds. I read it all before I started, now when I experience something, I read it again. If I do not get it - I post my query and I get answers from people who experienced similar things. It is wise and easy to follow a path when people have traversed it and they can point your shortcomings - you can alleviate it with ease - else post it again - 'upnishad'- which means - come and sit(at feet with folded hands). The more you put your head down to listen - the easier it is to learn.
P.S. Do not carry the impresssion that people are confused here - many maybe finding path like us - many of these folks are masters atleast for newbies. |
Edited by - aditya on Jan 02 2007 09:31:59 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 10:54:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ab25
I was lead to a real person guru by a spirit(ghost?).
Does this seem strange to you?
Welcome to the forum AB
Things happen to guide us in our path... call it a guiding spirit, an angel, an inner guru.. it may all seem strange in the beginning... but give it some time and not much will happen that will surprise you any more. 
The key is to allow these inner guidance into our lives without getting attached to them. Many things will happen that will leave you wondering... and it is good to wonder.. for awhile maybe.. but make sure you move on... don't get fixed on it.
Andrew's suggestion, of not doing meditation or any other spiritual practices close to sleep time, is very good.
I am a little confused as to what your routine is right now. You say, you have stopped all energy work.. that silent meditation was better than the loud OM mantra. So... you are not following AYP correct? I am not saying following the AYP way is the answer.. but you can give it a try... Start reading from here.Lesson 10 (The first in this series) - Why This Discussion?
"All other energy work has been stopped for one month only meditation is going on now."
Sounds good 
"My only symptoms are tight jaw and sleep disturbance. "
Maybe these threads will help you
Tight jaw
Housecleaning?
cure for insomnia?
"It calmed down until I started using the out loud OM mantra."
"I thought meditation would calm me, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think the silent meditation was less disturbing."
I think you have answered your own question here... if the loud mantra is not helping.. go back to silent meditation.. at least till things settle down a bit.
Two key concepts to keep in mind...
1)Self pacing.. which means cutting down on practice till you are stable.. and in your case you have already cut down on meditation... so, you may have to change your meditation to the silent kind.. try the AYP deep meditation 13 Meditation – Awakening the Silent Seed
2)Grounding... take long walks, eat a heavier diet for awhile, make sure you are active during the day, stay away from spiritual books or anything else that will fan your bhakti, for a bit.. just till you feel a little stable energy wise.
Hope these help. Thank you for joining us and wishing you all the best in your chosen path.
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 11:54:55 AM
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Thanks for your help everyone. I am frustrated because I feel like
I am speaking french. I have been working with spirits in shamanism for 5 years and just had my housecleaning done with a firehose.
Nothing seems strange to me. It was a question. Does it seem strange to you?
I don't understand your yoga terminalogy.
I have no practice. I just found this site saturday. My guru is a therapist, so I know her but have not done any yoga yet. She is a teacher, I don't know if that is a guru.
I haven't slept well in 4 months so I am sorry if I am grumpy. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 12:15:44 PM
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Hi Ab25,
You may have established a pattern of energy flowing to your crown with your previous crown practices and energy work. If I suddenly found myself in your situation, I would do 5 minutes of pranayama spinal breathing as described here: http://www.aypsite.org/41.html and 10 minutes of deep meditation using the "i am" mantra as described here: http://www.aypsite.org/13.html, followed by 5 minutes of rest at the end of practices.
I would do this twice a day, once in the morning and once in the early evening and see how I felt after a week or two of this routine. It could go a long way in balancing you out if you give it a legitimate try. The "om" mantra is extremely potent and does not necessarily have the balancing affect for someone who is already having energy imbalances, so I would discontinue this for now.
good luck and let us know how it goes,
A
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 1:00:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ab25
Thanks for your help everyone. I am frustrated because I feel like
I am speaking french.
It is good of you that you explain to us when you feel
that we don't understand really what you want to express.
It is always difficult to express our feelings and our
situation by just typing those words in an online-forum.
Be assured that we are well meaning.
Even though we are well-meaning, the advice we give may not be
completely on target, and subsequently you may feel frustrated.
Just keep on trying (and be patient with us) !
quote:
I have been working with spirits in shamanism for 5 years and just had my housecleaning done with a firehose.
Nothing seems strange to me. It was a question. Does it seem strange to you?
I don't understand your yoga terminalogy.
I have no practice. I just found this site saturday. My guru is a therapist, so I know her but have not done any yoga yet. She is a teacher, I don't know if that is a guru.
I haven't slept well in 4 months so I am sorry if I am grumpy.
I know that terminology may be confusing and I have to admit
that I don't fully understand all those yogic terms that are
around here 
Are you familiar with the term 'grounding' ?
Do you feel that this is needed for you ?
Besides walks in the nature, sometimes some hard physical
work-out could be helpful as well.
Love and Light
Wolfgang |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 1:03:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ab25
I don't understand your yoga terminalogy.
I have no practice. I just found this site saturday. My guru is a therapist, so I know her but have not done any yoga yet. She is a teacher, I don't know if that is a guru.
I haven't slept well in 4 months so I am sorry if I am grumpy.
OK.. then how about I spell it out for you.. in non yoga terms...
You have energy running wild.. you need to tame it. Just like Andrew said.. get into a routine(since you don't have one...)
Start with Deep meditation... twice a day.. for 15-20 mins.. If you think this helps.. read the lessons from the beginning..
This is how you will have a structured practice to follow.
The links I posted above have some very good points on why sleeplessness.. and how to overcome it.. (nothing to do with housecleaning or fire hose or a maid service really )
I have cut and paste a part of the meditation lesson for you below.. quote:
Lesson 13 - Meditation -- Awakening the Silent Seed
We will use a thought to do it. Not just any thought. A special
thought called a "mantra." We will use a particular method of
thinking this mantra that allows the mind to do what it can easily do
if given the opportunity, settle down.
Actually, any thought can be used to meditate, as been amply
demonstrated by researchers over the past thirty years. But we'd like
to use a particular thought, one that has certain vibratory
qualities, one that produces a certain effect in the nervous system.
It is also one we can enhance as our practice advances, but more
about that later. The mantra we will begin with here is:
…I AM…
We will not be focusing on the meaning of I AM during meditation. No
doubt it has sacred meaning in the Judeo/Christian tradition in
particular, and also bears similarity to the sacred sounds of other
traditions. It is the sound we are interested in, not the meaning. It
is the sound we will be using, within. We are after the profound
vibratory quality of the sound when it is used effectively deep
inside the mind and nervous system. Perhaps these profound effects
inside the human being are the reason why I AM has been revered for
centuries. What we will be doing is focusing on the correct
utilization of the mantra in the practice of meditation. Then we will
have the best results.
Here is how we will use it:
Find a quiet, comfortable place where you can sit, preferably with
back support. We want to remove unnecessary distractions. Just sit
and relax somewhere where you can close your eyes for twenty minutes
without interruptions.
Once you have gotten comfortable, slowly close your eyes. You will
notice thoughts, streams of thoughts. That is fine. Just observe them
without minding them. After about a minute, gently introduce the
thought …I AM… and begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your
mind. If your mind wanders off into other thoughts, you will
eventually realize this has happened. Don't be concerned about it. It
is natural. When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently
go back to it. This is all you have to do. Easily repeat the mantra
silently inside. When you realize you are not thinking it, then
easily come back to it. The goal is not to stay on it. The goal is to
follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra, losing it, and
coming back to it when you find you have lost it. Do not resist if
the mantra tends to become less distinct. Thinking the mantra does
not have to be with clear pronunciation. I AM can be experienced at
many levels in your mind and nervous system. When you come back to
it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for
either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation.
Do this procedure for twenty minutes, and, then, with your eyes
closed, take a few minutes to rest before you get up.
This practice is to be done twice each day, before you start your day
and before you begin your evening activities. It is best done before
meals, as digestion can interfere with the process of meditation.
Make a commitment to yourself to do it for a few months. Give it some
time to work. You will be amazed at the results, and then you will
want to keep going forward to more and more.
That's enough for now.
In the following lessons, we will go into more detail about the
process and consequences of meditation. After that we will begin to
work with another natural ability we each have, our ability to use
the breath to move silence in us with endless ecstasy.
The guru is in you.
Make sure you take walks, do some physical exercise and be active during the day...
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Edited by - Shanti on Jan 02 2007 1:07:34 PM |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 1:08:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ab25
Thanks for your help everyone. I am frustrated because I feel like
I am speaking french. I have been working with spirits in shamanism for 5 years and just had my housecleaning done with a firehose.
Nothing seems strange to me. It was a question. Does it seem strange to you?
I don't understand your yoga terminalogy.
I have no practice. I just found this site saturday. My guru is a therapist, so I know her but have not done any yoga yet. She is a teacher, I don't know if that is a guru.
I haven't slept well in 4 months so I am sorry if I am grumpy.
Well everyone has suggeted same thing - I was last one to hit "post"
button. ab - I do not want you to be grumpier - I edit my post.  |
Edited by - aditya on Jan 02 2007 1:37:35 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 1:35:11 PM
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Hi AB25,
I can tell you that yogis do not encourage working with spirits of less levels than Jesus or the Buddha as they drain your life force and cause problems with your health.The Om mantra is the specific seed mantra for the crown chakra so any meditation or japa using this mantra will cause premature crown opening and the problems you are experiencing.Just reading your mail gives me headache due to your imbalances as the energetic connection is made.Unfortunately we are all different and something that works quite safely for one may not be safe for another.The swing in symptoms of lethargy are classic symptoms of energy overdose or imbalances and are found in a lot of energy workers such as Reiki when they don't look after their selves(self healing) or take too many energy attunements.I would suggest as has been suggested by others that you need grounding on a daily basis and self heal(simply placing your hands on your stomach as you relax is enough)to integrate and balance the energies.Certainly stop the Om meditation and use only silent meditation.
L&L
Dave |
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ab25
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 3:08:51 PM
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Thank you.
Sorry to spread my contangious energy imbalance.
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Edited by - ab25 on Jan 02 2007 3:19:16 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 3:16:56 PM
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I just want to say I totally understand your frustration of not understanding the yoga terms or advice given! The answers to your problems is probably well covered above, but my deepest understanding of your condition of confusion and weird experiences! Been there, done that...
The 10-15-20 minutes of meditation with I AM twice a day is a fine start to get you in balance! Then add the spinal breathing, which is a superb stabilizer! Don't read too much here, though. Don't swallow all lessons at once - the site actually increases your energy flow! (Took a while before I got that...) Start with only the necessary to get going!
Wish you luck! |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2007 : 5:10:48 PM
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Dear Ab25,
No problem.Emc is correct simply reading on here will make an energetic connection.Some even get increase in symptoms by reading spiritual material.
L&L
Dave |
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energy & dreams
