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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 07:31:26 AM
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Hi Philip,
quote:
Well, the kundalini reaches the crown, but then descends down to the heart. One rises, and then the next. Not simultaneously. And once all seven are raised (in the fire), one ether rests in Nirvana (one is born in heaven), or enters into the Straight Path which means you have to raise all the serpents again, but now on a higher octave (in the light). This is much more difficult, but only for these individuals is Christ incarnated. Even then, there are still levels and degrees. The different degrees are represented by "horns" or "tridents," like the horns on Michelangelo's Moses.
Thanks for the reply. Are you actually involved in this process yourself? I assume you are as your knowledge seems to be experiential as well as scriptural. In which case where are you in this process? Is it as clear cut to the extent that we can say, "the Serpent fire is now awakening the fith chakra in my fourth body"?
Do the seven bodies in some way relate to the five Olamot? And do the ten Sefirot in some way relate to the chakras?
When you talk of the process of raising the bodies for the second time, is this Yechidah?
Sorry to ask so many questions at once.
Christi
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 12:18:36 PM
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Christi said:
There is a fourth option which you seem to have overlooked. That he was the Son of God. The Messiah. The King of Kings. Always good to keep all the options open, don't you think? Especially if we are involved in a rational analysis.
Christi, I haven't actually overlooked that -- I don't believe it. My not-believing it is actually very well-considered -- for me. So it wouldn't occur in one of my 'speculations' because it would no longer be me speculating.
On the more difficult problem which you rightly raised... How can we engage in conversation in this forum if someone can say anything as a quote from their teacher and we cannot critisize it. I don't know the answer to that one.
I think you then answered it yourself -- we should feel free to criticize the teachings, but not cross a line in the way we criticize the teacher.
Unfortunately, sometimes the criticism of the teacher is valid content in the argument about what is going wrong with the teachings, because psychological insight into the teacher can explain mistakes in what is taught. This means that valid criticism is limited here to an extent. Which is OK -- AYP forum is not the place for all discussion that is in itself good and appropriate.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 2:03:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Just because you have lived in an ashram sannyasi for several years, doesn't mean that you know what Brahmacharya is and how it is practiced.
Oh, yes it does. The rigors of celibate monastic life are a major challenge for any man who chooses to undertake it. This is exactly why learning the principles and techniques of Brahmacharya are required of everyone who becomes a Sannyasin, both males and females alike. 
It is too bad that I am disqualified from receiving the knowledge you eluded to based on what you consider my anti-Christian and anti-Orthodox feelings..
Perhaps you misunderstood my reply somewhat. It's not that I wouldn't gladly share the information with you under the right circumstances, but simply that you are not an Orthodox Christian. As such, you don't already have an understanding of the many unfamiliar points of reference that you'd encounter. Therefore, you essentially disqualify yourself by virtue of having no interest in Christian Theology and Practice. As a result, I have neither the time nor the desire to teach everything to someone who is not genuinely interested in Orthodoxy. I hope you understand.
Thankfully I have not received any such disqualification from Gnosticism or AYP and will gladly continue my pursuits in those areas.
Excellent idea! Philosophically and theologically, you are probably much better suited to those methods. They are likely to present the same or similar concepts and practices in language that you are more familiar with and more comfortable with. Congratulations on your non-disqualification there. I wish you much success in those studies! 
So what use are those Esoteric Eastern Orthodox Christian Teachings and Techniques to us here? What use to us is your criticism if it is empty and does not offer anything different?
As stated previously, the Teachings in question were specifically formulated for use by Eastern Orthodox Christians as an aid to their spiritual lives, and were never meant for general public dissemination. Once again, I hope you understand.
My critique of Philip's Magical Mystery Tour Teachings is quite valid, and far from empty, whether I offer any alternative or not. I believe that the criticism which has been posted by me and others is well deserved without any point by point comparison to any alternatives. 
I'll take the magical mystery tour over nothing anytime.
A wise decision on your part. The Magical Mystery Tour Method is undoubtedly the next best option to no method at all! 
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 13 2007 3:10:59 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 2:18:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
"Your teacher, Fred Bloggs, is two sticks short of a bundle and needs his head checked".
Christi:
I really enjoyed your entire post. You made several excellent points. But the quoted line above got me laughing, because it reminded me of a similar saying used by country folk here in Texas in reference to people who are considered a bit deficient mentally.
This local saying is usually said something like this..."That Ole Boy's 'bout two flapjacks shy of a short stack". 
Sophisticated food references are commonly employed as literary devices here in Texas. 
Another favorite of mine is..."That Ole Boy's bisquits ain't quite baked".
Regards ~
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 13 2007 3:13:53 PM |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 2:36:14 PM
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quote:
Philip, while we are on this issue, can you please tell us if Samael Aun Weor taught any specific mental or physical techniques to assist in withholding orgasm during the sexual act?
He does not recommend any type of forceful (blocking) means to stop a spasm. I know some teach a lock technique for men to squeeze or apply pressure to the sexual organ in a way to prevent ejaculation. There also exist teachings that help men to have orgasm without ejaculation, using certain techniques. All of this is considered the same, because the energy is being wasted, whether it be seminal energy, chemical energy, vital energy, emotional energy, mental energy, etc. By wasted I mean, outwardly into the physical world instead of back into the subtle worlds.
The best method to prevent orgasm is to stop before you have it. It is that simple! I know this terribly difficult for beginners. For beginners, what is recommenced is very short periods of connection. For some, this many mean five or ten minutes once a week. For some, even one minute is too much - but soon with practice, the body can change its habitual removal of sexual energy into the habit of transmuting it.
In the case of a mistake, where the spasm is already on the verge of occuring, read the following:
If by misfortune the spasm comes against our will, the disciple will then withdraw from the act and immediately lie down in Decubitus-Dorsal (face up) and will then refrain quickly with the following movements:
Instructions
1. Execute the supreme effort that a woman does when she is giving birth, sending the nervous current towards the sexual organs but with it, doing an effort to close the sphincters or exits through which the seminal fluid usually escapes. This is a supreme effort.
2. Inhale as if you were pumping, or making the seminal fluid rise with the respiration towards the brain. As you inhale, vocalise the Mantra HAM. Imagine this energy rising to the brain and then passing to the heart.
3. Now exhale the breath imagining the Sexual Energy being fixed in the heart. While exhaling, vocalise the mantra SAH.
4. If the spasm is very strong, refrain, refrain, and continue inhaling and exhaling with the help of the mantra HAM-SAH. HAM is masculine. SAH is feminine. HAM is Solar. SAH is Lunar.
One must expel the air rapidly through the mouth producing the sound SAH in a soft and delightful way. One must inhale with the mouth half open, mentally chanting the mantra HAM.
The basic idea of this esoteric exercise is to invert the respiratory process making it truly positive, since in the present state the negative lunar aspect SAH predominates, which leads to seminal discharge. By inverting the respiratory process through this breathing exercise, the centrifugal force becomes centripetal and the semen then flows inwards and upwards.
Amplification
The instructions that we have given in the former paragraphs can also be applied in the case of spasm and in general to every practise of Sexual Magic. Every practice of Sexual Magic can be concluded with this marvelous exercise. The work in the Ninth Sphere means struggle, sacrifice, effort, willpower. The weak ones flee from the Ninth Sphere, horrified, terrified, frightened. Those who are devoured by the Serpent become Serpents, Gods.
In very grave cases, when the sexual spasm occurs suddenly, with imminent danger of seminal ejaculation, the Initiate must immediately withdraw from the act and lie on his back on the floor, holding his breath. To do this one must seal the nasal passages, pressing them with one's index finger and thumb. This effort must be accompanied by concentration of thought. The neophyte must concentrate intensely on the pulsations of the phallus, which are a repetition of the cardiac pulse. He must try to refrain these sexual pulsations to avoid spilling the semen, and if he is forced to inhale oxygen, this must be done with a very short and rapid inhalation, continuing with the maximum retention of breath. - Samael Aun Weor
When you are saying HAM, do so mentally, as you are inhaling. Using imagination and willpower to pull all the currents of energy upwards, to reverse the outwardly flow to an inwardly flow. If it is really bad, if you feel as if you can not control it, keep inhaling, more and more, and only let out small, quick breath where you say SAH. In grave situations you may need to hold your breath for 20 or 30 seconds, because you if exhale at all the spasm will occur or semen will be discharged.
HAM-SAH is a very powerful pranayama. You can do this whenever you wish in order to transmute the sexual energy. For men who suffer from wet dreams, pranayama is a very powerful act help with that. Wet dreams are a very serious problem, but they can be overcome. Wet dreams are the outcome of a body and mind that has the bad habit of fornicating. But you can transform that. |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 3:10:58 PM
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quote:
...we should feel free to criticize the teachings, but not cross a line in the way we criticize the teacher
inquiring is different from declaring it 'wrong or unworthy' which already crossed the line.
quote:
...valid criticism is limited here to an extent. Which is OK
new protocol for the members?
quote:
...criticism of the teacher is valid content in the argument about what is going wrong with the teachings
the above statement is true if one is advanced in their practices to find the faults / solutions accordingly.
learning is by exploring and practice. not by criticism.
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hi David, i don't have any hard feelings towards you, and neither i agree with you in certain things.
not necessary you should agree with me either
wish you good luck in your chosen path ! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 3:58:15 PM
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inquiring is different from declaring it 'wrong or unworthy' which already crossed the line.
I disagree; it's OK to declare things wrong or unworthy, explicitly or implicitly. That is called 'giving a contary opinion'. Which is what you are doing here; you are implying that my opinion on this is wrong.
learning is by exploring and practice. not by criticism.
Again I disagree. Direct criticism is not for everyone, and those who don't like it should stay out of it, though I recommend that they don't prescribe the same path for others.
Some people have the quality that we might want to label, for simplicity, 'piety' and believe piety to be a high spiritual quality, and prescribe it for others. Others, like me, don't believe this 'piety' to be a high spiritual quality at all. It's just the way some people are, and believe in being.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 13 2007 4:11:36 PM |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 4:02:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Philip,
Thanks for the reply. Are you actually involved in this process yourself? I assume you are as your knowledge seems to be experiential as well as scriptural. In which case where are you in this process? Is it as clear cut to the extent that we can say, "the Serpent fire is now awakening the fith chakra in my fourth body"?
Do the seven bodies in some way relate to the five Olamot? And do the ten Sefirot in some way relate to the chakras?
When you talk of the process of raising the bodies for the second time, is this Yechidah?
Sorry to ask so many questions at once.
Christi
Well, the process begins for anyone who does three things:
1) Transmutes the sexual energy (born again).
2) Dies to the ego (the beheading of John).
3) Sacrifices for humanity.
"If anyone wishes to come after me", he said, "he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me" (Lk 9:23).
Deny yourself: die to the (false) self. You can only do this through meditation, because without meditation you cannot possibly see who you truly are.
Take up your cross: Tantrism, the crossing of elements.
Follow me: Perform good works for the sake of humanity.
What is important to remember, concerning the self-realization of the Being, is that it is the Being, the inner Father is the one that we are working for. The "me," the "myself," has no importance, in fact it is the "I" that we currently are that must die, so that the true man can be born. The ego is not the one who is earning the initiations, the ego doesn't raise the kundalini. It is the Being who is transforming into a Master. We, here on earth, are just exponents of the our inner Father, who we must glorify by awakening, and transmuting our energy so that He can manifest on Earth.
The one who is awakening the kundalini is really awakened. There is nothing vague about it. He knows. He can travel in the subtle bodies with ease.
Everyone, it seems at least, think that after a few years of practice, when they have some psychosomatic phenomena occur, that they feel some sensations, or see things, that this must mean their kundalini is awakened, that their chakras are opened, etc. No. All of that occurs before the kundalini even raises one single vertebra. Personally, yes of course I have had experiences, but these means nothing. The ascent of the kundalini is very serious, very profound, very difficult. Very personal too, so I would not say matter of that nature to anyone. Really, the matters of one's personal kundalini is between you and your internal God. No one else should know, unless of course, your inner being wants you to tell others. And things like that occur, but very rarely. You see, you have to follow the 10 Commandments, which is the Secondary Law (Deuteronomical Law), but when you have direct rapport which your inner Father, then you can follow the First Law: which is to obey him. This is why Jesus is such a revolutionary, because was breaking all the laws, but he did so because inner Father told him to do it.
There are many, many, many, correspondences. So many, that one can, and people do go crazy studying things like this. They study and study, but because they don't practice, they don't get anywhere. They get confused and the outcome is failure. Basically though, the seven-fold spirit of man is laid out by the seven lowest sephiroth:
1. Physical Body (Malkuth - "Kingdom")
2. Vital Body (Yesod - "Foundation," the Stone of Sex that the "builders" reject.)
3. Sidereal (Astral) Body (Hod)
4. Mental Body (Netzach)
5. Casual Body (Tiphereth)
6. Buddhic Body (Geburah)
7. Atmic Body (Chesed, "Father")
In each body we have to send the "Word" to the "Churches" that are in Asia. But Asia is a blind, what it means is Assiah, the lowest world of the Kabbalah.
1. Church of Ephesus – Chakra Muladhara - Sexual glands
2. Church of Smyrma – Chakra Svadhisthana - Prostate region
3. Church of Pergamos – Chakra Manipura - Solar Plexus (stomach)
4. Church of Thyatira – Chakra Anahata - Cardiac (heart)
5. Church of Sardis – Chakra Vishuddha - Larynx (throat)
6. Church of Philadelphia – Chakra Ajna - Frontal Cortex (brain)
7. Church of Laodicea – Chakra Sahasrara - Pineal gland
We send that Word, that Fire, that INRI, up the tree of life through the transmutation of the sexual energy. This is why Yesod is literally the "foundation." That Tree of Life is the spinal column, because the spinal column is where all the life of the bodies come from. Each of the seven candlesticks is a spinal columns. God said, "He who eats of the this tree shall surely die;" but he who "overcomes" shall not taste the second death, because he overcame his own (sexual) temptation, which is the root of sin. Then, you reenter "Eden" which means to be full of the creative potential of god, and once there you can eat freely of the Tree of Life, which is the Science of God, Kabbalah. Kabbalah, from kabel, "to receive." The real kabbalist is one who is receiving the bread of life directly from God.
quote:
When you talk of the process of raising the bodies for the second time, is this Yechidah?
Yechidah is the most superior vesture of the Absoulte. In a way, yes, the final, final works of this universe at least is in correspondence with the Yechidah. It is said that the Yechidah only comes when the Messiah does, meaning Christ. So, you have to take the Direct Path, incarnate Christ, and receive that Yechidah, and later enter into the Ain.
Read the following for more detail, although you need to know kabbalah to really see the depth of these scriptures:
The letter Mem Sophit represents Yechidah, the image of the Ain, the Absolute, the absolute consciousness of the Being, the Ain Soph, the Paramarthasatyas floating in the unknowable Waters of the abstract space.
Proverb 10: 25: “As the whirlwind (the Ruach Elohim) ceases, so to do the wicked [in Ain]; but Is an everlasting foundation in the righteous.”
The whirlwind, the whirling Aleph (that carries the image, Tzalem, of the three primary forces of the Elohim) is the everlasting companion of Tzaddi (the Tzaddik, the Righteous).
John 1: 26: “John answered them, saying, I (by means of scientific Chastity) baptize with water (in Yesod-Sex): but there (in Hod) stands one (Fire, the Tzalem) among you, whom you know not (this is the image, the Ruach of the Elohim, that floating above the Schamayim [holy water] of Yesod. He it is (Fire), who coming after me is preferred before me (the Ain Soph Aur).”
Revelation is received in degrees; the highest levels of revelation are received through Chaiah and Yechidah. Faith develops gradually; it develops through different states of consciousness, which are developed through the Self-realization of the being by means of Sexual Magic. So, the very Essence of the Elohim: Nephesh, Neshamah, Ruach, Chaiah and Yechidah are placed with the Ain Soph Aur in Yesod-Sex (the Tree of Good and Evil). Faith is the fruit of the tree of Good and evil; it is Gnosis or Living Knowledge, living experiences within all of the Sephiroth of the Tree of Life. http://www.gnosticteachings.org/cou...wilight.html
The Cosmic Crestos spoke through Jesus when he said the following in the Pistis Sophia:
It came to pass then, when Jesus [the son of Nun, the righteous one] had finished saying these words to his disciples, that he continued again in the discourse, and said unto them; “Lo, I have then put on my Vesture [Yechidah], and all authority hath been given me through the First Mystery [Kether]. Yet a little while and I will tell you the mystery of the universe and the fullness of the universe; and I will hide nothing from you from this hour on, but in fullness will I perfect you in all fullness and in all perfection and in all mysteries, which are the perfection of all perfections and the fullness of all fulnesses and the gnosis of all gnoses,--those which are in my Vesture [Yechidah]. I will tell you all mysteries from the exteriors of the exteriors to the interiors of the interiors. But hearken that I may tell you all things which have befallen me. It came to pass then, when the sun [the Ain Soph Aur] had risen in the east [Nous], that a great light-power came down, in which was my Vesture, which I had left behind in the four-and-twentieth mystery [Arcanum 24: the Divine Mother in Yesod-Daath], as I have said unto you. And I found a mystery in My Vesture, written in five words of those from the height: ZAMA ZAMA OZZA RACHAMA OZAI,
Whose solution is this: “THE ROBE, THE GLORIOUS ROBE OF MY STRENGTH.”
If you want to know more, that pronounce this mantra in meditation: ZAMA ZAMA OZZA RACHAMA OZAI. Meditate on it, this is how you comprehend.
The rest of this post is simply food for meditation.
"7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
"10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil [ego] shall cast some of you into prison [of darkness, confusion, suffering, ignorance, etc.], that ye may be tried [through the trials of Job]; and ye shall have tribulation ten days [Arcanum 10 which is Karma, you have to pay what you owe]: be thou faithful unto [psychological] death, and I will give thee a crown of life [Kether-Chokmah-Binah, the Christ].
11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
"My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed within you." - Galatians, chapter 4:19
Uselessly Christ in Bethlehem was born
If within our heart his birth is forlorn.
His crucifixion, death, and resurrection on the third day from among the dead were in vain,
Unless his crucifixion, death, and resurrection, be set up within each one of us again. |
Edited by - Philip on Jan 13 2007 4:10:36 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 7:00:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip
The Cosmic Crestos spoke through Jesus when he said the following in the Pistis Sophia:
"It came to pass then, when Jesus [the son of Nun, the righteous one] had finished saying these words to his disciples..."
Hi Philip:
The quote above is one of many examples from your posts which I find confusing and/or historically inaccurate. 
As you probably know, the name 'Jesus' is a transliteration of the name 'Yeshua'. This is the actual name which Jesus Christ used during His earthly life....Yeshua ben Yusef.
There were, however, two other famous figures in Biblical Literature who had the name Yeshua as well. The most familiar of these two is the person generally known in the English language Bibles as Joshua..Yeshua ben Nun...who led the Israelites into the Promised Holy Land and fought the Battle of Jericho.
The other is Yeshua ben Sirach, the Author of the Deuterocanonical Text entitled "Ecclesiasticus" or "The Wisdom of Sirach".
So is the 'Jesus' being referenced in your quote above Jesus Christ or Joshua son of Nun? If Jesus Christ, why confuse those familiar with Biblical Works by adding "the son of Nun", which Jewish and Christian readers associate with 'Joshua' (Yeshua ben Nun)? And if it refers to Joshua, the son of Nun, why confuse that by calling him 'Jesus' as if referring to Jesus Christ
Doc |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2007 : 11:59:35 PM
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quote:
So is the 'Jesus' being referenced in your quote above Jesus Christ or Joshua son of Nun? If Jesus Christ, why confuse those familiar with Biblical Works by adding "the son of Nun", which Jewish and Christian readers associate with 'Joshua' (Yeshua ben Nun)? And if it refers to Joshua, the son of Nun, why confuse that by calling him 'Jesus' as if referring to Jesus Christ
Doc
Doc,
That is a good question. The reason is that I am not talking about any specific historical person. In Gnosticism, we do not care about historical events that much. What we care about is the meaning of the teaches left to us. Many Jews (Lions of Judah, meaning initiates of the Wisdom) changed different parts of the Bible to mingle historical data with allegorical teachings to help the people accomplish their religion. So, all these stories of the Prophets, while always having some historical basis, are almost never accurate in regards to physical history, but very accurate in accordance with the levels of the self realization of the being.
The answer is that, in kabbalah, every "Yeshua" is a "son of Nun." But one has to understand what a Yeshua is, and what Nun is. A Yeshua is the Savior that always emerges from the Waters (Mark 1:10). Nun means fish. The Nun swims in the Mem; Mem is the water, the Mother, the Mary, the Maria, the Mariam, the mother-matter which the soul body is sown and risen as a spiritual body. Nun is the principle of life that swims in the divine fiery waters of life (schamayim), that descend from the Daath, down into the sexual waters of Yesod.
If you want to know more, then read these notes before the following quotes, which is highly kabbalistic and difficult to comprehend!
quote:
VAV sixth letter of the Hebrew Alphabet, it symbolizes the Spinal Medulla; ‘Vav’ the foundation of the property of hearing the word; ‘Vav’ means ‘and’, ‘connection’
Schamayim: The Divine fiery Water, which is the fiery outflow of Solar Energy, the flaming river pouring from the Ain Soph Aur in the presence of Iod-Havah Elohim in Daath.
IOD: Tenth letter of the Hebrew Alphabet, it symbolizes the Lingam, the sexual, generating Power of Kether hidden within Nachash-Ima-Elohim, Havah in Yesod.
KAPH: Eleventh letter of the Hebrew Alphabet, it symbolizes the Crown Chakra, in other words, it represents the Light-Power of the Ain Soph self-realizing its latent Spiritual Power in Chesed, the Monad through the Three Supernals in the Brain. The letter Kaph indicates the necessity of remembering the power of Elohim within us from moment to moment, so that the three Supernals can fully manifest their power in our physical body and thus make their presence concrete within us.
Shechinah: means "Indwelling Presence." Shechinah is the feminine Divine force of God. She is the Divine Mother whose essence, feminine force or creative force is in exile (not active in us). She is the creative force of God that abides in the Chakra Muladhara. The Divine Mother Kundalini is the erotic, sensual chaste loving force underlying within the Church of Ephesus, whose veil covers the mystery of Daath. She is the fiery power within every Elohim. The exile of the Shechinah means the exile from the chaste powers of the Kundalini by means of Fornication and the falling into Klipoth through the Kundabuffer (inverted kundalini, or tail of satan).
"The Nun moves within the Mem, the fish that swims protected by Schamayim (the living waters of life) from the Ain Soph Aur, the unknowable divine.
Within all Monads from the Ain Soph, Nun symbolizes every non-active element that lacks Self-cognizance, but by means of the Self-realization of the Being, in other words, by means of the transmutation of the waters of Yesod, in the Ninth Sphere, Sex; these elements develop and become active. Thereafter, these Nun elements appear as fiery self-cognizant active elements (by means of the Iod and Havah) of all Self-realized Beings or Elohim, at the dawning of any universe."
"The tides of Schamayim in Daath reached Yesod and are controlled by the moon. In Yesod are the Waters of life that give life to the King (Meleck) when the solar forces of the Messiah within Nun are liberated in sexual alchemy. Then the energies of the Messiah rise through Vav from the Iod in Yesod and reach the Brain, the Kaph or the Crown of the King. This is how the tides of the new moon, the Mother Aima Elohim (through her Shechinah that vibrates in Nun) bring through sexual transmutation the life of a new king. Eventually this Shechinah gives birth a new king, the savior, the Messiah, of Israel or liberator of the conscious particles of our Monad that are trapped in Malkuth and that are slaves of the forces of the Leviathan (sex), the Behemoth (emotion) and the unclean Ofa of the mind."
More on NUN can be found here: http://www.gnosticteachings.org/cou...perance.html
More on every one of the 22 letters can be found here: http://www.gnosticteachings.org/cou...-two-arcana/
So, this is the way that we understand that Yeshua, the Pentagrammaton, the Iod-He-Shin-Vav-He, always comes from the Mem, as the son of Nun. |
Edited by - Philip on Jan 14 2007 01:28:08 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2007 : 02:31:28 AM
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Huh Say what 
Excuse me for questioning your explanation, Philip, but the writings that your quote was gleaned from didn't use the name 'Yeshua', which means 'God Is Salvation', but used the name 'Jesus' instead. I'm pretty certain that all Christians, and even Jews, Muslims, or other non-Christians who see the name 'Jesus' in religious and spiritual writings will assume that it is referring to 'Jesus of Nazareth' or 'Jesus Christ', not an unfamiliar and eccentric Gnostic allegory.
So why confuse virtually everyone who reads these works by asking them to accept an entirely new mindset association with the name 'Jesus', especially when the teachings in question are presented as 'Gnostic Christianity'? Wouldn't you agree that the term 'Christianity' is generally perceived worldwide to mean religious beliefs and practices specifically associated with the life and teachings of 'Jesus Christ' or 'Jesus of Nazareth'?
So why confuse everyone by using the name 'Jesus' in the context of your interpretation? It seems to me that doing so only serves to weaken the credibility of the allegorical teachings, as does the 'literary license' of disregarding the familiar and accepted historical associations of the Torah, Bible, and Koran. I would bet that this practice alone serves to automatically invalidate the writings and teachings in the minds of millions.
If the goal is to promote the gnostic teachings so that more people can benefit from them, wouldn't the use of 'Yeshua' or some other less familiar name be alot better?
Doc |
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Philip
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2007 : 1:10:10 PM
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quote:
If the goal is to promote the gnostic teachings so that more people can benefit from them, wouldn't the use of 'Yeshua' or some other less familiar name be alot better?
Doc
Doc, I appreciate and value your comments. Thank you.
A true and proper introduction to these teachings I have not given on this thread. And, indeed, the Pistis Sophia is an advanced work that, in order to understand the meaning of the word according to the way I have presented it, one has to first have a good deal of intellectual background that I did not give. By posting that I know I was challenging the reader to understand it, but I'd rather give too much than too little. Ultimately that post was direct at Christi (and others), who seems to have some background or interest in kabbalah and esotericism to some extent.
In general though, it is absolutely necessary to change one's mindset if they are interested in learning these gnostic teachings. As we know, one cannot pure new wine into an old wineskin. The wineskin is our mind: the way we think, the way we associate, our "mindset." Trying to pour the wine of gnosis into the wineskin of the traditionally accepted ways of thinking will result in confusion. It goes beyond just this issue, the very essence of the doctrine is radically different, from point zero onward. The more one has a traditional mindset regarding Christianity the more one will struggle to make any sense of these teachings; that doesn't mean it isn't possible though. And, I want you do know I don't say this because I want to offend, but because it is the truth of the matter.
That being said, some of the things I have posted on here are very complicated and intricate, that is a level that some people are looking for. Not everyone needs that right away. As Paul said: Some people need milk, some people need meat. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2007 : 6:42:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
The more one has a traditional mindset regarding Christianity the more one will struggle to make any sense of these teachings; that doesn't mean it isn't possible though. And, I want you do know I don't say this because I want to offend, but because it is the truth of the matter.
Hi Philip:
Agreed. Amen to that , Brother! No offense taken at all.
Regards ~
Doc
P.S. I thought you might like this site if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/mystic.htm |
Edited by - Doc on Jan 14 2007 6:45:42 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2007 : 07:25:02 AM
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Hi Philip,
Thanks for the very informative reply.
quote:
Everyone, it seems at least, think that after a few years of practice, when they have some psychosomatic phenomena occur, that they feel some sensations, or see things, that this must mean their kundalini is awakened, that their chakras are opened, etc. No. All of that occurs before the kundalini even raises one single vertebra. Personally, yes of course I have had experiences, but these means nothing. The ascent of the kundalini is very serious, very profound, very difficult. Very personal too, so I would not say matter of that nature to anyone. Really, the matters of one's personal kundalini is between you and your internal God. No one else should know, unless of course, your inner being wants you to tell others. And things like that occur, but very rarely.
Sorry if I was asking a personal question in regards to the Kundalini.
As far as I am concerned, I have had many Kundalini experiences, some of which have blown the top of my head off, and left me wondering if I was going to die or not. I happily tell anyone who is interested about any of these experiences. Actually, surprisingly few people show any interest at all! I suppose that my higher self wants me to for some reason.
The reason I am asking about the seven bodies, the Sefirot, the Olamot and the serpant fire (Kundalini), is that things seem to get a bit confusing here in terms of the scriptures, especially where Yoga is concerned. Yoga talks about the seven bodies: physical, vital (emotional), mental, etheric (pranic), astral, causal, and the bliss body: atmic. Yoga also talks about the existence of realms of being (universes) that relate to these bodies. Yoga acnowledges the chakras, and relates the chakras to the universes and bodies (although fairly tenuously). But when it comes to Kundalini and the raising of it, most of the scriptures simply seem to say:
"Once awakened, The Kundalini Shakti rises from the root chakra through each of the seven main chakras in turn, awakening each one, until it reaches the crown chakra, at which point the yogi is enlightened".
If there is any addition to this description, it goes along the lines of:
"once the crown is fully active, the White Light of Siva descends from above, through the open Crown, and merges with the Shakti energy coming from below, uniting as Love in the heart, and fully opening the heart chakra, at this point the Yogi is enlightened".
I have never seen anything like:
"Once the Kundalini energy has reached the crown, and the crown chakra has been opened fully, the energy then decends to the root chakra of the second body to begin the whole process again".
This is the sourse of my confusion.
In kundalini yoga they talk about seven chakras above the head (making 14 in total), the first starting about 2 feet above the top of the head, and going up quite far (many feet above the head). I know that each body (subtle human body) is larger than the one directly below it in terms of the width of th vibrational oscillation, so all I can imagine, is that these 7 chakras (above the crown) relate to the crown chakras of each ascending subtle body, so meditating on them in turn would cause the kundalini energy to rise to the crown of each subtle body, opening each chakra in that body as it goes. Of course the maths does not add up for this hypothesis to work. After the physical, there are 6 subtle bodies, so there should be 6 chakras above the head, not seven, unless of course, the last, and highest chakra (ten feet or so above the head) relates somehow to the 3 highest Sefirot.
Of course, it isn't your problem if Yoga is vague in relation to it's understanding of the Kundalini process, it is mine, as Yoga is my primary path, and practice. But one of the reasons that I make inroads into the studies of other systems of spiritual practice such as Christian Gnostisism, is to try and fill the gaps in understanding in the Yoigic system. I would be very surprised if these gaps in the knowledge base of Yoga actually existed (other than between my ears) as Yoga is an extremely advanced practice, with a correspondingly rich knowledge base. It could be simply that this stuff hasn't yet made it onto the internet, so I (and presumably many others) don't know about it yet.
quote:
Yechidah is the most superior vesture of the Absoulte. In a way, yes, the final, final works of this universe at least is in correspondence with the Yechidah. It is said that the Yechidah only comes when the Messiah does, meaning Christ. So, you have to take the Direct Path, incarnate Christ, and receive that Yechidah, and later enter into the Ain.
I'll give it my best shot. I'll let you know if I make it... if I still have a physical form by then, and access to a computer.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Jan 15 2007 08:28:40 AM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2007 : 09:48:42 AM
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Hi Christi,
It has been very interesting to follow the discussion here with all the knowledge that has been exchanged, and that you have contributed with.
quote:
I happily tell anyone who is interested about any of these experiences. Actually, surprisingly few people show any interest at all!
It may not be that people aren't really interested, but maybe that one of the main principles of AYP, and purposes of this forum, is that it's practices that makes us progress and not experiences, so most may be more interested in discussing actual practices and maybe don't think that their experiences are that important. It could also be that many haven't had many experiences to compare with. But you are of course welcome to share any experiences, we will listen! And I think many could be interested as well.
quote:
But one of the reasons that I make inroads into the studies of other systems of spiritual practice such as Christian Gnostisism, is to try and fill the gaps in understanding in the Yoigic system.
It makes a lot of sense to get a complete picture, and we always seek the ultimate truth and knowledge. It may be that Yoga doesn't present all the details on how things work spiritually. However, I also believe that Yogani has presented a complete set of practices that will take us to the ultimate goal of life if applied. If it was necessary (for reaching the goal of life) to understand for example how kundalini works in the subtle bodies and chakras I think he would have included it.
It's important to note that Yogani has described his work "Advanced Yoga Practices", and not "Complete Description of Principles and Processes Leading to Enlightenment". I would of course as well be interested in finding such a work, but I also understand that this knowledge will be accessible to us as we open up spiritually, and by spending too much energy studying it intellectually from outer sources it may distract us from integrating our practices in daily life.
Best wishes on your path! |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2007 : 10:39:36 AM
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quote:
It's important to note that Yogani has described his work "Advanced Yoga Practices", and not "Complete Description of Principles and Processes Leading to Enlightenment". I would of course as well be interested in finding such a work, but I also understand that this knowledge will be accessible to us as we open up spiritually, and by spending too much energy studying it intellectually from outer sources it may distract us from integrating our practices in daily life.
I totally agree I spent many years doing just that all to no real avail when with the proper practices these things can come to you in one flash of insight |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2007 : 9:39:41 PM
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Can someone explain to me the deeper meaning behind Proverbs Nine. Who is this story about or what is it about? Chakras? What?
I was always curious about this scripture, from a childhood experience, and I was wondering what anyone's take on it was.
Thanks again,
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 15 2007 9:46:06 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2007 : 08:32:58 AM
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Hi Weaver,
thanks for the reply...
quote:
It may not be that people aren't really interested, but maybe that one of the main principles of AYP, and purposes of this forum, is that it's practices that makes us progress and not experiences, so most may be more interested in discussing actual practices and maybe don't think that their experiences are that important. It could also be that many haven't had many experiences to compare with. But you are of course welcome to share any experiences, we will listen!
I wasn't actually referring to people in this forum when I said that most people were not at all interested in Kundalini (or in fact any spiritual) experiences. I was reffering more to the people in my workplace, the people I meet in the local bar.. you know, the general population at large. I mainly don't talk about spiritual matters at all. This forum is a very different place. And of course, I agree that practices are by far the main thing (as they are in my life), and scriptural knowledge is only a support to that. Of course I don't need people to listen to my Kundalini stories. I share them when it is appropriate to help advance understanding on spiritual matters for everyone (hopefully including myself).
quote:
However, I also believe that Yogani has presented a complete set of practices that will take us to the ultimate goal of life if applied. If it was necessary (for reaching the goal of life) to understand for example how kundalini works in the subtle bodies and chakras I think he would have included it.
Maybee he hasn't got round to it yet... he's a busy man
Christi |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2007 : 08:44:24 AM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, this is what I find as well, that most people I know or otherwise meet "in the street", are not too interested in these things. That's why I find this forum a great place to share common interests like these. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2007 : 5:48:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL:
Can someone explain to me the deeper meaning behind Proverbs Nine. Who is this story about or what is it about?
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KJV: Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars: Proverbs 9:1 à çëîåú áðúä áéúä çöáä òîåãéä ùáòä
Wisdom
chokmowth (khok-moth')
wisdom -- wisdom, every wise (woman).
hath builded
banah (baw-naw')
to build (literally and figuratively) -- (begin to) build(-er), obtain children, make, repair, set (up), surely.
her house
bayith (bah'-yith)
a house (in the greatest variation of applications, especially family, etc.)
she hath hewn out
chatsab (khaw-tsab')
to cut or carve (wood), stone or other material); by implication, to hew, split, square, quarry, engrave -- cut, dig, divide, grave, hew (out, -er), made, mason.
her seven
sheba` (sheh'-bah)
a primitive cardinal number; seven (as the sacred full one); also (adverbially) seven times; by implication, a week; by extension, an indefinite number
pillars
`ammuwd (am-mood')
a column (as standing); also a stand, i.e. platform -- apiece, pillar.
CORE PRINCIPLES:
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
WISDOM is the ability to perceive or determine what is good, true or sound. It is manifested through common sense or sound judgement. To be wise is to have that ability.
Through training and constant practice one can actually reprogram the mind. One begins with the re-engineering of the thought processes by first becoming conscious of one’s own thoughts. One can then consciously accept or reject a particular thought process. By constantly accepting or rejecting particular thought processes one can alter one’s behaviour, one can acquire new habits and one can therefore change one’s character.
Someone once wrote: "Sow a thought reap an action; Sow an action reap a habit; Sow a habit reap a character; Sow a character reap a destiny".
Now to achieve success in the training program means that every effort is made in practicing these attributes until they become inbred habits.
In doing so, conformity to the model that embodies completeness or maturity is attained. These attributes are definitely essential to alter the matrix and reshape character. But the integrity of the matrix is dependent on LOVE. It is held together by LOVE. LOVE completes or perfects character.
The Seven Pillars are the foundation upon which the Character Matrix is built. They are necessary attributes to make one a well-balanced or complete person. LOVE being a major binding ingredient holding the matrix together. LOVE, in the sense a set of character attributes can be seen as related to maturity.
St. Paul defines LOVE by saying:
"Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails".
Within context, LOVE is the cement, which holds the Evolved Character Matrix together and determines its (structural) integrity. We need to teach people how to love again.
MORE TO COME....
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Jan 17 2007 12:09:12 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2007 : 6:43:57 PM
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As usual, great response Doc. You've given me a lot to contemplate.
I'm actually at the point where I'm taking practice a lot more "serious" for lack of a better word, especially focusing on diet, giving up smoking, investigating the physical, psychological, spiritual, benefits of fasting, etc.
Although, I wasn't ignorant of the mind body connection, I never really equated it to spirituality for some strange reason - but lately realize how everything is interconnected and in order to advance spiritually it's important to purify the body also. So, I guess my personal experience of receiving a wise yoga's advice has come full circle, when he said to "watch what you eat". It's funny how "The Master will appear when the student is ready" and how we will convince ourselves that it's everything else that's stopping us from going full steam ahead and it can't be something as simple as THAT. LOL. That's how I am at times, stubborn, I guess you could say: 
So your post makes sense in reference to good habits/practice, etc.
I just read an article, where I think it was Aristotle who said that he refused to take on a new student who didn't fast for a certain amount of days, since he wasn't mentally prepared for the information.
I know I'm kind of just throwing everything out there in a kind of cobbled mess, speaking of fasting, diet, etc., but I just realized that I was working from only one half of the equation and it's time to integrate them all. And even though you've mentioned the importance, as did the Yogi, and others; it's about time to put it into practice.
Anyway, thanks again:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Jan 16 2007 7:00:59 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2007 : 9:10:50 PM
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Thanks VIL! I'm glad that 'Wisdom' is whispering to you inwardly.
Here's a pretty good English Translation of Proverbs 9 in its entirety, followed by a link to an excellent paper on the comparative perspectives of Ancient Hebrew and Greek regarding Holy Wisdom from the psychological viewpoint of Wilhelm Reich. Hope you enjoy it!
English: New American Standard Bible
Proverbs 9:1-18
1. Wisdom has built her house,
She has hewn out her seven pillars;
2. She has prepared her food, she has mixed her wine;
She has also set her table;
3. She has sent out her maidens, she calls
From the tops of the heights of the city:
4. "Whoever is naive, let him turn in here!"
To him who lacks understanding she says,
5. "Come, eat of my food
And drink of the wine I have mixed.
6. "Forsake your folly and live,
And proceed in the way of understanding."
7. He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself,
And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself.
8. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you,
Reprove a wise man and he will love you.
9. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser,
Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning.
10. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11. For by me your days will be multiplied,
And years of life will be added to you.
12. If you are wise, you are wise for yourself,
And if you scoff, you alone will bear it.
13. The woman of folly is boisterous,
She is naive and knows nothing.
14. She sits at the doorway of her house,
On a seat by the high places of the city,
15. Calling to those who pass by,
Who are making their paths straight:
16. "Whoever is naive, let him turn in here,"
And to him who lacks understanding she says,
17. "Stolen water is sweet;
And bread eaten in secret is pleasant."
18. But he does not know that the dead are there,
That her guests are in the depths of Sheol.
http://www.abwoon.com/documents/ReadingWisdom.pdf
Regards to All!
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Jan 17 2007 9:17:51 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2007 : 08:46:44 AM
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Wow, Doc, great article. I especially enjoyed the paradoxical experience between that of a mystic/poet and that of a schizophrenic. The latter unable to integrate experience, due to a split or disassociation of awareness oftentimes labeled as "the devil", "voices", an unknown "power", "energy current"; since schizophrenics, according to the author, had lost their sixth sense and created a sort of separation within themselves. [I used to work with schizophrenics and I often wondered about this - not to mention that Gopi Krishna mentioned the possibility that these individuals had too much prana within the body, too soon, and had a difficult time integrating this energy.
I also loved the insight concerning breath, that for compulsive neurotic individuals it's nearly impossible to inhale and exhale in one single breath [I'm still light headed, btw, which exasperated my own neurosis and made me self-conscious of my own breath. Thanks, Doc. Time to grab the DSM IV: LOL: ]. And also the correlation between that and the childhood practice of holding the breath in order not to masturbate, the rigidity of militarists and the dysfunction of, what he surmised, as a cultural phenomenon of destructive practices of artificial self-control.
I'll have to reread the article, since there are so many points to contemplate - and I personally believe that all spiritual writings correspond with science and psychology.
I also wanted to add, that I often wondered about this aspect as it relates to the Kundalini Awakening, as a way of rationalizing, intellectualizing, released child hood trauma, related to the muladhara chakra [sexual energy], as it's often awakened at a time of crisis. And wondered if it has to do with the individuals ability/maturity to now handle the past experience or repressive tendency and integrate the sexual energy from a healthy point of retrospection. In other words, the adult is now able to look back at trauma and integrate the experience from a natural, healthy, psychological perspective, which creates a wholeness that was lacking - the dis associative aspect or separation from the child's true self/individuality/identity - due to mislabeling of negative experience - or the child's inability to express his/her feelings at the time of trauma. The reason why many people parallel the awakening of Kundalini as a second birth, and its often turbulent climb with that of a second adolescence.
And I would go further and say that this is a cultural, social, phenomenon in which the sexual energy is condensed at the genitals when its natural tendency is to be dispersed throughout the body. [ecstatic conductivity]. But due to social conditioning, often negative, preconceived notions, toward sexuality, this energy becomes trapped, within the base chakra, and isn't allowed to move freely until there is awareness of this negative conditioning and the gap is bridged between sexuality and spirituality.
Anyway, thanks, again, Doc:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Jan 18 2007 8:34:23 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2007 : 8:11:46 PM
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quote:
Doc: I'm glad that 'Wisdom' is whispering to you inwardly.
Oh, I just caught this: No, the childhood experience of wisdom wasn't wispering to me: LOL. It was actually a person that went into a trance and quoted Proverbs 9 verse 1 at me when I was about ten or twelve years old and I never forgot it, although the person didn't remember saying it, afterward, but recalled going into a trance. Do do do do... LOL. Strange experience. Btw, I'm posting too much today. This will be my last post until tomorrow: LOL:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 18 2007 8:37:39 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2007 : 9:17:36 PM
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Hey, VIL:
I wasn't referring to your childhood experience. I meant that I am glad that Wisdom is whispering to you via the insights you glean from contemplating that which is discussed here. So, to add a bit more to the mix, this brief piece regarding the significance of the number seven in Biblical Texts might be of interest as well.
Seven
"And seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of ram horns before the Ark of the Covenant; and the seventh day you shall encompass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets". (Joshua 6:4)
In the Bible, numbers have spiritual significance. Of all the numbers, seven is the most familiar because it appears about 600 times. Seven denotes spiritual perfection. It means divine fulness, completeness and totality. It comes from a Hebrew word meaning "to be full," "to be satisfied," and "to have enough".
Many times seven is important as a symbol rather than as an actual number. Whenever you read seven, it does not always literally mean seven things or seven occurrences. It is symbolic of the whole, the completion, the ideal situation, or the perfect picture of things. Seven constitutes a complete cycle.
One of the most profound examples of the use of the symbolic number seven is related to the fall of Jericho in the Joshua 6:1-20. Notice how many sevens appear in the scripture above. The use of the number seven simply means fulfillment or enough. Enough priests blew the trumpets and enough people marched around the walls enough times for the walls to come tumbling down.
Revelation, the last book of the Bible that completes the word of God contains more sevens than any of the other books. There are Seven Churches, Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, Seven Personages, Seven Vials, Seven Woes, and Seven New Things. Additionally, there are Seven Glories of the Son of Man, and Seven Blessings. The word "Jesus" is found seven times, "Jesus Christ" seven times and "the Wrath of God" seven times.
The Holy Spirit is said to rest within a person in seven distinct ways: as Indwelling Holy Wisdom, Divine Understanding, Higher Knowledge, Loving Counsel, Sacred Presence, Spiritual Power, and Respect for God.
Our desire should be that the Holy Spirit will rest within us in the same seven ways.
Doc
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Kabbalah, Gnosticism and Christianity
