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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 07:40:33 AM
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Came across the following, which is the first sutra in Tolle's book "Stillness Speaks".
When you lose touch with inner stillness, you
lose touch with yourself. When you lose touch
with yourself, you lose yourself in the world.
Your innermost sense of self, of who you are, is
inseparable from stillness. This is the I am that
is deeper than name and form.
"This is the I am that is deeper than name and form".
This sounds like the mantra, in the way that we use it, just repeating it with no association to anything - deeper than name or form.
For me it is nice to see Tolle making this link between inner stillness and I am.
Does anyone see anything wrong with my conclusion, or wish to elaborate?
Louis |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 9:07:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
Came across the following, which is the first sutra in Tolle's book "Stillness Speaks".
When you lose touch with inner stillness, you
lose touch with yourself. When you lose touch
with yourself, you lose yourself in the world.
Your innermost sense of self, of who you are, is
inseparable from stillness. This is the I am that
is deeper than name and form.
"This is the I am that is deeper than name and form".
This sounds like the mantra, in the way that we use it, just repeating it with no association to anything - deeper than name or form.
For me it is nice to see Tolle making this link between inner stillness and I am.
Does anyone see anything wrong with my conclusion, or wish to elaborate?
Louis
Hi Louis,
Thanks for this!
I don't see anything wrong with it at all - I agree / "resonate" with Tolle's statements, 100% - and with the connections / conclusions you draw as well.
This post helps me to realize (via clearly-stated teachings, such as this) that we are all very, very fortunate to have living, awakened teachers (such as Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti and Yogani, to name just three of them) who can clearly and concisely convey the "teachings of the ages" to ... everyone.
If a person has no real interest in, or exposure to, Eastern spirituality and yogic teachings -- they're much more likely to find a statement such as "Your innermost sense of self, of who you are, is
inseparable from stillness" to be a more helpful pointer to reality, than, say, "Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH" -- even though they're saying essentially the same thing, and the latter statement has been around for thousands of years.
"Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH" is Yoga Sutra I.2 - the second line / sutra in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras (I.1 is simply "Atha Yoganushasanam" - "Now we are going to study yoga" - so if you start with I.2, you haven't missed too much .... ).
And, Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH translates as "Yoga is the control of the modifications of the mind-field" -- and yes, many of the terms have to be taken in context, to understand their essential similarities to Tolle's statements -- so you may have to trust me on some of this -- but please be assured that none of the interpretation is mine; it comes directly from Patanjali, and the most respected commentators on the Yoga Sutras (example: Vyasa) - all of whom were enlightened Yogis / Rishis.
When the modifications of the mind-field cease, it's like waves on a pond dying down - so that the pond is completely still.
It is only this still pond (BuddhiH - the unmodified, pure intellect) which can clearly reflect the light of the Self - and thus, give us the experience of our true nature.
So, to paraphrase Patanjali just a little, he is saying:
"Yoga (Union, Oneness) is the place of pure awareness that is utterly silent and still, because in the actuality of Yoga, all of the modifications of chitta (aka the mind-field), which produce our perceptions, such as people, places, things, sense of "me", thoughts, feelings, etc. have settled down completely - leaving us with only the Silence - the Stillness which is the Self."
The reason I go into all that is:
The Tolle quote you kindly posted isn't anything new --- and is all the more awesome, for that reason!
Statements and teachings such as his (and Adyashanti's and Yogani's - and any other teacher actually conveying true teachings, or pointers "thereto") have been around for thousands and thousands of years.
However, most people haven't gotten them, nor realized the benefits of them, because they have been purposefully kept secret for a variety of reasons, or they have been perceived as culturally far away ("Po-tan-joo-lee? Is that an eye-talian name? Don't matter, I get all my truth from this here Bible!" <---- "Be still, and know that I am God", anyone? )
(And yes, "italics mine"  )
So, again -- I truly agree -- and am filled with gratitude for teachers who can point to the truth, so clearly!
And actually - a "point of elaboration" just hit me -- and I do feel it's an important one:
Especially in the West, we tend to think in terms of subject and object - so when we read words such as "inner stillness", we think of an "I" or a "me" who is having this experience, called "inner stillness".
And if we're not careful - that can lead us to a place that is one step - but also, effectively a million miles - away from Reality.
Tolle actually states it, flat out:
"When you lose touch with inner stillness, you lose touch with yourself."
... but it's still SO easy to miss, I feel it bears overtly stating.
Tolle's statement above is true - but not because we experience our Self in conjunction with an experience of inner stillness.
Tolle's statement is true, because, at the most essential level - we are inner stillness.
Stated more succinctly (and paraphrasing Adyashanti) - "when speaking of our true nature, it is not accurate to say 'I am silent', it is accurate to say 'I am silence'."
Thanks again, Louis - I had forgotten how awesome and beautiful Stillness Speaks is!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 09:44:15 AM
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Hi Kirtanman
Thanks for the great reply. You make the link mainly between the silence/stillness that Tolle speaks of and the inner silence of the AYP practices. This of course is correct and worth repeating and repeating because it really is what it is all about anyway.
The other thing that interests me is the connection between the "I am" mantra and stillness. For me the link between the two is essentially to be taken on trust. There are many ways to inner silence and the "I am" mantra is only one of them. The interesting thing is the way Tolle says
"This is the I am that is deeper than name and form".
I'm not sure wheather I'm reading something more into this than is there, in that I would not be familiar with how mantras are composed and created.
When we say the mantra internally presumably the vibration of it, or the energy of it is resonating and promoting the inner silence in us.
Is this what Tolle is talking about when he says " This is the I am that is deeper than name and form"
One can say that Tolle took it from the Christian scriptures and just used the "I am" in that context, but in my view that would be un-Tolle-like. It seems to me like he is also tuning into the energy or vibration of it, which I think is the same as what we are doing with the mantra.
I would like to ask him this, maybe I will chance contacting him and see if a reply comes back.
Happy Christmas afternoon from Ireland
Louis
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 11:50:14 AM
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Hi All
quote:
"This is the I am that is deeper than name and form".
Yes. Deeper than the word. Whether it be "silent" or "silence".
Kirtanman wrote:
quote:
This post helps me to realize (via clearly-stated teachings, such as this) that we are all very, very fortunate to have living, awakened teachers (such as Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti and Yogani, to name just three of them) who can clearly and concisely convey the "teachings of the ages" to ... everyone.
Yes. So blessed we are!
Sparkle wrote:
quote:
For me it is nice to see Tolle making this link between inner stillness and I am.
Does anyone see anything wrong with my conclusion, or wish to elaborate?
Nothing is wrong, Louis. Just don't settle for mental conclusions. Why should it matter what further Tolle has to say about I am? You already know What he says already touches you. You don't need to search further. You don't need validation from outside! Be still. Listen. Exactly like you do when you meditate. The sound of I am is also form. But somehow, this vibration winds you down....attracts you way down....into the source you are. I am already embraces - and permeates - all form. And yes - the silence is it.
Kirtanman wrote:
quote:
And, Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH translates as "Yoga is the control of the modifications of the mind-field" -- and yes, many of the terms have to be taken in context, to understand their essential similarities to Tolle's statements -- so you may have to trust me on some of this
quote:
If a person has no real interest in, or exposure to, Eastern spirituality and yogic teachings -- they're much more likely to find a statement such as "Your innermost sense of self, of who you are, is
inseparable from stillness" to be a more helpful pointer to reality, than, say, "Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH" -- even though they're saying essentially the same thing, and the latter statement has been around for thousands of years.
Actually - there is one tangible difference between the two statements: Nirodha. Control.
That word - control .......
I ask: Who is it that controls? Control implies a doer. It prolongs the doer. Me. It is effort until effort is not needed.
Tolle, as Patanjali, says that silence already is. This implies: Silence need not be "promoted". You don't need to control your mind. You - the mind - cannot anihilate yourself. And you don't have to. See.....
you - the controler - are not. I am. I already am. Both statements implies that in the end - effortlessness is it. Why not start right here?
Says Tolle.
Of course - many can't. It is so easy, it is difficult. Many need a method.
AYP and Yogani is the closest I come to an effortless method. Simple. Clear. But it is still a method. The guru is - after all - in you. Not in AYP as such.
I am is the heart of AYP. Yogani - blessed be. Thank you!
Sparkle, Kirtanman - thank you!
When understood that you are it, no method is needed. Right now, there is no other method for me than this seeing that I am. This "not finding myself as object" is totally relaxed, yet totally alert. Not as a tight string that will break when pressure is put on it, but in seeing the equality - the unity - of all objects to be I am. Nothing is breaking, and nothing is tight. All is left to be as it is. Nothing is wrong. I am.
So - resonating within my heart - is the relaxed state. Not as in "lazy" - just... as a listening state...where it is not about control....only relaxing myself into the lovingness of I am. Falling inwards....and in the midst of all my thoughts, desires, griefs, ecstacies....stay home.
Be the pond - ripples or not.
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 10:20:31 PM
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Hehe
"I AM" - The buck stops here. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2006 : 8:29:07 PM
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Hi Katrine
As usual your sword pierces the duality of my thoughts with nowhere to go but here
I have a particular interest in this because I want to introduce Tolle into my group meditations. To be able to link Tolle and AYP together in solid ways seems a good way to start.
Of course, they say the best way to learn is to teach, so it is very much for me also.
After I read your post last night, I had some dreams where you were giving me further instruction on letting go my thoughts - thanks for that also, although I'm sure you were unaware of it ha ha!.
Louis
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2006 : 06:24:19 AM
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An idle thought: what would happen if Yogani, Tolle, Adyashanti (I don't know her/him Kirtanman, just adding coz I saw her/him there in your post), and many more congregated every so often, and...?
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