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albechan
Italy
28 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 12 2018 : 03:36:22 AM
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I've been practicing AYP for a few months with great benefit.
Recently, I've started to take Yoga classes as well in order to complement my regular practices with asana. The benefit increased even further, so I'm very happy with that.
I explained my Yoga instructor that I follow AYP guidelines and that I am determined to keep going this path as the results have been undeniable. He understood but, at the same time, he told me that he can't be sure there won't be any clashes between his teachings (traditional Vinyasa yoga) and AYP stuff and that, in case this happens, I should decide which way to pursue.
So far I haven't experienced any deep inconsistencies and I'm fairly confident the two things can be done at the same time with great harmony.
There's only one thing that differs substantially, though: during pranayama my teacher wants me to put the attention on the breathing flow direction, that means down while inhaling and up while exhaling. This contrasts with SBP taught by Yogani where the visualization of prana inside the spinal nerve is supposed to go up from Muladhara to Ajna during the inhalation and down during the exhalation.
He gives me a routine of asana every other week and there's always pranayama at the end which fits nicely with DM that I practice straight after that.
It's been a couple of weeks that I'm doing pranayama following the breath down while inhaling and up while exhaling. I haven't noticed any difference in results.
Do you think it's very important not to reverse the attention-breathing coordination suggested by AYP?
Thank you so much.
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2018 : 07:07:56 AM
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Hi albechan,
Great that you found a yoga class to learn the asana in a group setting! Your teacher is wise to let you decide what to choose if you find differences in practice. Both ways in SBP is possible. When I found AYP I had the same question as you have now. Also I learned it both ways from different teachers. When I started with my personal daily routine AYP style, I switched to the style of Yogani, as his explanation was clear to me.
I investigated it for myself and as a teacher, as I see it now, when we start with yoga/pranayama it is not for everyone easy to feel deep in the pelvic centre how the breath is starting there. This takes time, while the physical breath is easier to follow downwards for starters. This could be a reason, as there could be other reasons too.
Yogani wrote a lesson on this question.
Have a smooth journey.  |
Edited by - Charliedog on Sep 12 2018 07:24:05 AM |
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albechan
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2018 : 08:07:08 AM
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Hi Charliedog,
Thank you very much for your reply.
Somehow, I had overlooked Yogani's answer to my very same question: it's great you pointed it out.
I think I'll experiment a bit further and see what suits me best.
It seems to me that the confusion may arise because physically it's clear that the air goes down during inhalation and goes up during exhalation.
Thus, if you equate breathed air with prana, it seems more logical to draw this order.
On the other hand, if you consider prana something different than breathed air it's perfectly fine to reverse the order as per AYP style as at the end it depends only on where you decide to put your attention on. |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2018 : 09:34:38 AM
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Here is Christi's answer to a similar query:
It is really a question of cultivating a habit. Everything can become a habit if it is done regularly enough. There is a natural flow of prana in the body, where prana rises on the inhalation and falls on the exhalation. This happens for everyone. So the practice of Spinal Breathing in AYP is in line with the natural circulation of prana in the body.
As I mentioned above, there is a natural flow (circulation) of prana in the body which goes up with the inhalation and down with the exhalation. To be more specific about it, this flow of prana actually precedes the breath, so when we are breathing naturally, it is the rising current of prana that causes us to inhale, and the falling current of prana which causes us to exhale. So we do not need to think about breathing, it just happens naturally following the natural circulation of prana in the body.
So if we reverse the flow of spinal breathing, we are going against this natural flow of prana.
This would not be an issue for beginners, because the flows of prana involved are often too small to make any difference. The natural flows of prana in the body will be light and any flow being produced by Spinal Breathing will tend to be light as well. Later on though, as the flows of prana become stronger, going against the natural flow could be more problematic.
For example, when kundalini is active and the higher centres are being purified, prana will sometimes rise spontaneously, with a rush, up to the higher centres in order to activate them. This will cause the breath to inhale sharply and then suspend inside the body (antara kumbhaka) for a period of time. If we are practicing Spinal Breathing the way it is recommended in the lessons, we would then have our attention at ajna chakra, so we would be "with" the centres that are being activated and this would increase the purification taking place. If we were reversing the flow of attention, then we would end up with our attention at the root chakra whilst this is happening.
The same would be true in reverse, when the breath naturally suspends externally (bahya kumbhaka) after exhalation and the lower chakras are being purified.
It would also be problematic when we come to take on more advanced practices such as Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka and Dynamic Jalandhara. These are combined with Spinal Breathing and are practiced at the end of an inhalation with the attention at ajna chakra. If someone was reversing the direction of Spinal Breathing, they would need to reverse it again, during these practices which would be confusing.
It would be more of an issue with naturally occurring sahit kumbhaka (breath retention after inhalation or exhalation), happening during Spinal Breathing, as the attention will be in a less advantageous place. With spontaneous breath retention after inhalation, often the attention is drawn naturally to the higher centres (ajna and crown), so again, that would go against the direction of the practice.
I am not saying that reversing the flow of the attention would make the practice ineffective, but I would certainly advise people strongly against trying it for the above reasons.
Hi Mykal, Christi, and All:
My experience supports Christi's explanation. The flow of prana and the breath retention at the end of inhalation purify and activate the center where the attention goes. It makes more sense to purify and activate ajna, and expand its energy, than muladhara. In fact, when I started to practice spinal breathing I had the same questions as Mykal. Thus, I tried SB on reverse circuit (from ajna to muladhara). It felt like a flower was opening and growing rapidly at the root - and the vibrations were getting lower.
It became obvious that SB was meant to bring prana to ajna, and not the other way around.
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2018 : 9:41:52 PM
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Also Albechan, you can breathe SBP in your asana class, and no one would be the wiser. I do this all the time; if teacher's instruction differs, I just do my own thing.
I never meditate the morning of class, as I know I automatically fall into DM during shivasana; no sense courting overload. |
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albechan
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2018 : 02:17:37 AM
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Dear All,
Thank you so much for your kind replies and suggestions.
I am not in the position yet to realize why it's preferable to follow AYP guidelines on this as the effectiveness of SBP that I experience seems to be quite remarkable in both cases.
Hopefully further practice will clear any doubts left.
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2018 : 10:46:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by albechan
Dear All,
Thank you so much for your kind replies and suggestions.
I am not in the position yet to realize why it's preferable to follow AYP guidelines on this as the effectiveness of SBP that I experience seems to be quite remarkable in both cases.
Hopefully further practice will clear any doubts left.
I have seen this question several times here on teh Forum. Usually the answer is that, Yogani has evolved a set of practices that for him and many others, has fairly predictably safe and beneficial responses. Hence he is confident it can be recommended. Varied practices are not necessarily bad or dangerous, but their safety and effectivenes are not necessarily known. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2018 : 12:05:42 AM
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| Well, there is heart breathing that goes down with the inhale and up with the exhale but not to the root. I guess, it's not sooo weird. I've fallen into the spinal nerve, and I've traveled up with the inhale and down with the exhale. It seems natural to me. I'd recommend that. MHO. |
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SBP brathing-visualization coordination
