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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 23 2006 : 11:05:39 PM
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Hi Christi
Unless i'm misunderstanding you are hinting that you can levitate as well as go weeks without physical food. That's pretty nifty. The no-food alone is quite impressive from the outlook of my current developement. Please share more about these (and other?) abilities stemming from your yogic experience.
Alan |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2006 : 11:26:49 PM
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http://www.amazingabilities.com/amaze8a.html
Well, noone said this guy was the anti-christ. Maybe you should work on your levitation abilities Scott, you'll be a rich man . When you make your millions, don't forget about us  .
Christi |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 12:38:06 AM
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| If I made millions, the first thing I would do is create the AYP center. But I am far far far far far from floating around. Especially with all this thanksgiving food in my belly. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 12:49:02 AM
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Hi Scott,
I agree with Kumar on most points.
Siddhis, or extraordinary abilities like levitating are a pitfall for many a yogi. Such abilities come when you are vibrating at a different (rarer)frequency. And things like money, fame, debates on shows (that go I'm right, you're wrong... egoistic clashes)are vibrating at a denser frequency. If these abilities are used for earning money, fame, it's going to pull down the practioner straight to a denser level.
Also, I feel that in a world where the majority don't see much beyond money, status, communities, religion, such abilities or even control over people with such abilities will be misused.
Which is why Wilder didn't agree to run... straight to the definite halls of fame... because he felt the supernormal ability he'd got was not to used for such trivial stuff. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 01:15:25 AM
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Hi Balance
quote:
Hi Christi
Unless i'm misunderstanding you are hinting that you can levitate as well as go weeks without physical food. That's pretty nifty. The no-food alone is quite impressive from the outlook of my current developement. Please share more about these (and other?) abilities stemming from your yogic experience.
Sorry to disappoint you- I can't levitate. I thought I had made that one clear already. I assume you are talking about this line in my reply to Kumar:
quote:
You are right. If I went on the Randi show, I would just be making easy money without working. Are you sure that is not a good idea?
I was talking about the transfer of prana demonstration, the one I'm going to do on the Randi show, rather than levitation, sorry I didn't make that clear. I was concerned that Kumar thought that I was being somewhat morally degenerative by considering making tons of money in one night without even braking into a sweat.
As for going for weeks without food, anyone can do that. Try it- you won't die. Actually, I have only gone for 2 weeks without eating, so the plural only just applies, but I have friends that have gone for 8 weeks at a time. I went for 4 days once without food or water, just as an experiment. Apparently you are supposed to die after 3 days. I wanted to see if I would. I didn't. I got quite grumpy though, but I was still walking around. Don't try that one by the way... it's really dangerous, and you can damage yourself. Always keep drinking.
As for any more amazing yogic abilities...well ... I can laugh at myself. Does that count for anything?
Christi
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 01:44:14 AM
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Hi Christi
Laughing? Why yes it does count, in my book(where's the laughing smiley?). I would place laughter above levitation any day! That's one of the greatest siddhis available to all, extremely healthy, enlightening and contageous! I'm sorry, the posts in this thread got quite long-windedfor my taste and I missed your post about actually being on a show and demonstrating prana exchange. I will look back to read that.
Floating in mirth and abundant laughter, Alan |
Edited by - Balance on Nov 24 2006 02:02:40 AM |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 01:59:31 AM
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Hi Christi
Thanx for your comments.
great comments
"Earth is crying out for us to wake up" you are right.
iam not pointing any particular views about anyone here.
yeah most of the things are already happening everywhere and in India also, there is no exception.
its good to have extra normal abilities and making money out of it until it goes in a right way, but iam not sure how many peoples can take it in positive way. if everyone is taking this in positive way and our society is still balanced then really this earth will be a wonderful place.
I myself wants to attain siddhis, and its ok to attain siddhis, it doesn't matter who is flying, walking over water, swimming, dancing LOL its our ability and we should explore our abilities there is nothing wrong in that. but how i can able to describe for others in what way?, may be someone else has good opinion about this?.
End of the day we need a peacefull society so that everyone can live happily.
still i think we are not balanced, the conflicts, wars going on, and iam not blaming anyone, and can we say that its not happening in particular places? peacefull and harmonious society is essential. and i think Peoples like Yogani doing their efforts to bring the balance.
i think we can achieve this without yoga also. when the day peoples really Love each other from their heart, forget about the differences, live harmony with nature then that day even the extra terrestrials come to earth and say "Hi" to us. 
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 02:56:03 AM
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Sadhak,
quote:
Siddhis, or extraordinary abilities like levitating are a pitfall for many a yogi. Such abilities come when you are vibrating at a different (rarer)frequency. And things like money, fame, debates on shows (that go I'm right, you're wrong... egoistic clashes)are vibrating at a denser frequency. If these abilities are used for earning money, fame, it's going to pull down the practioner straight to a denser level.
I think that's a false view. I may be vibrating at a lower frequency than you are, but whatever frequency a person is operating at, truth is truth and false is false. It doesn't ever change even if you become enlightened.
I disagree that siddhis are a pitfall for a yogi, in that they are a lower frequency type act than anything else. You could say anything besides samadhi is then a pitfall. It's a false view. The only way siddhis are a pitfall is if they distract the yogi from persistent practice.
You say that money, fame, and debating are all qualities of a denser level. Does money disappear for the highly vibrating one, though? In my experience, no. There is a zen koan that goes something like: "Before enlightenment - chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." That's basically saying, you still have to deal with surviving as a human being once you've attained realization. Suriving as a human being these days involves getting money. The only way money is a corrupting factor is if it is desired...and obviously then money is just the scape goat. The real corrupting factor is desire for something other than enlightenment. The same can be said for debates or fame...what we desire is what determines what frequency we're buzzing at, not how much money we have, how famous we are, or how often we prove people wrong.
quote:
Also, I feel that in a world where the majority don't see much beyond money, status, communities, religion, such abilities or even control over people with such abilities will be misused.
That could definitely happen.
quote:
Which is why Wilder didn't agree to run... straight to the definite halls of fame... because he felt the supernormal ability he'd got was not to used for such trivial stuff.
I don't think it was such a conscious decision on his part. I interpreted it more like he simply lost interest in it. |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 04:11:23 AM
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Thankfully, I've never given much thought to siddhis. I've always felt I had a psychic sense about me but I thought that was just a matter of mechanics.
Its funny actually, because I once read a book on Kriya Yoga and when I saw a drawing of Khechari I said to myself, "these guys are whacko, how could anyone ever do anything like that"..........
Not worrying about my social reputation seems to be a superpower to certain individuals around me, as does being poor. I'm never hungry and have a roof over my head, and have family, so I don't feel poor. In fact, I feel rich. I could careless about achieving anything or becoming anything. Amazingly, in this perspective, I'm making the most rapid progress in my life.
LOL, being able to laugh at ones self is definitely a super human ability! Because a human personality is by nature defensive/selfish/desires to survive. Laughing at one's self requires a displacement to the level of heaven.
If I did have siddhi's would I really have them or possess them? To what purpose would my I use them? On what basis? If the ego has access to power then power will use the ego to sustain itself. They become intertwined. It makes sense that only after the ego is dissolved does power come under the conscious control of Will, as only then will it be used selflessly.
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Edited by - Kyman on Nov 24 2006 05:07:30 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 04:19:06 AM
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Namaste to All!
I have observed over many years time, both in my own Sadhana and in that of others as well, that so long as a yogi or yogini desires 'spiritual powers' (siddhis), these powers never fully come to them. He or she may attain some superficial, minor manifestations of such powers as a forced result of all their focused longing and desire, but never really attain the full blown abilities they so ardently seek. I have often thought that perhaps this fact implies a kind of yogic 'safeguard'. Sort of like a spiritual 'firewall' invisibly operating unnoticed in the background to protect the unprepared from the adverse reactions in potential mis-use of such powers.  
In other words, simple logic would suggest that any individual who desires such powers for selfish, ego gratifying reasons, such as fame and fortune, and who is thus driven or even obsessed with this want and desire, would probably also allow their 'wants' and their 'desires' to rule the use of any siddhis they attain.  This is ALWAYS a problem! 
Fact: great powers carry a great responsibility in regards to their use!  Those who are not ready to exercise this responsibility properly....i.e. morally, ethically, or spiritually....are far better off without the ability to wield advanced spiritual powers. 
By comparison, however, individuals who have disciplined their mind through a serious Yoga Sadhana to spiritually evolve beyond the constant attachment to various objects of desire, and have grown beyond all anticipation of pleasure and enjoyment from obtaining objects of desire, are not likely to misuse any siddhis they acquire. As a result, such powers gradually and automatically manifest themselves in and around such individuals as a normal by-product of their Self-Realization....without ever seeking these powers, without ever desiring them, without ever imagining the very cool and totally impressive use of such powers.
This phenomenon is much like searching all over the house for a certain item. Seeking it urgently. Looking everywhere for it, again and again, unsuccessfully, only to eventually give up the search with much frustration. But then a strange thing often happens. Upon letting go of the desire to find this item, and finally resigning the mind to not finding it, the eyes suddenly spot it, or its location magically comes to mind! How many times did you walk by and not see it hidden in PLAIN VIEW? 
This is how siddhis appear, too.  Only after you are no longer attached to seeking them, are no longer worried about whether you acquire them or not, and no longer have any awesomely cool plans on how to use them.
http://www.chriswylde.com/alfred_e_neuman.jpg
Hari Om!
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Nov 24 2006 05:07:30 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 07:51:58 AM
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quote:
Abdul Baha: "The Kingdom is attained by the one who forgets self. Everything becomes yours by Renunciation of everything.
A lion, wolf, and fox went hunting. They captured a wild ass, a gazelle, and a hare. The lion said to the wolf, 'Divide the spoil.' The wolf said, 'That is easy; the ass for yourself, the gazelle for me, and the hare for the fox.' The lion bit off the wolf’s head saying, 'You are not a good divider.' Then turning to the fox, he said, 'You divide!' The fox said, 'The ass, the gazelle, and the hare are yours!' The lion looking at him, said, 'Because you have accounted yourself as nothing, you may take all the prey.'”
Doc, I loved your post and have been aware of that little hidden secret of "Letting go and letting God" for some time. It's such an amazing phenomenon [Faith/Detachment] and truly does apply to ...'He who is faithful in little is faithful in much'. Christ. It never ceases to amaze me when this happens and I consider this an unknown/untapped Spiritual Law that the Great Mystics have hidden allegorically within every tradition.
And Kyman, I am also what some would consider "poor", and getting poorer by the minute - God's way of showing us, how much He cares: .
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Nov 24 2006 08:33:59 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 11:33:00 AM
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Doc and Kyman,
Both of your posts were great! |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2006 : 11:39:59 AM
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Hi Doc,
I must agree with you.If desire for siddhis or other things is regarded as an obstruction then while one has these desires then one will never be pure enough to achieve them.I came to the conclusion a while ago that if I look for siddhis then they will continue to evade me. When I achieve them then my interest will have waned.Yes I think this may be a 'firewall' which unfortunately doen't always work 100% which is why we read of 'corrupted' gurus who abuse their powers and position.Whether they have 'real' siddhis is debatable.To the one who is influenced by the gurus 'magnetic' personality to a point where they give up their wealth etc then they are certainly real.But we see this everyday don't we?Terrorists become human bombs or murder others on the word of someone who has great influence on them.Only recently Bill Clinton was reported to have received a standing ovation from fellow cinemagoers. Such is the influence and 'magnetic' personaltiy of some.A siddhi? who knows.
L&L
Dave |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2006 : 03:38:49 AM
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if siddhis attained through desires, selfish, ego definitely its a distraction to the yogi and also to the society.
if siddhis attained through detachment, it leads to knowledge and understanding
i don't know how "rich" is described here. if it means material things, then iam sure that most of them here are rich than me in many things. i admit that.
but i will never consider myself as poor.
for myself iam rich in spirituality, good friends, caring family, basic needs, loving girl friend but she don't know anything about yoga "LOL"<-- i mentioned in humorous way like this, but its misinterpreted. and i say thanks to God everyday for giving me these things.
but i will not say that iam free from ego, desires, selfish. i know only a little drop. everyday is a learning for me and i practice yoga to dissolve the desires, selfish and one way or other my ego gets broken down.
i wonder how many peoples are free from these things?
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2006 : 3:10:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Sadhak,
quote:
Siddhis, or extraordinary abilities like levitating are a pitfall for many a yogi. Such abilities come when you are vibrating at a different (rarer)frequency. And things like money, fame, debates on shows (that go I'm right, you're wrong... egoistic clashes)are vibrating at a denser frequency. If these abilities are used for earning money, fame, it's going to pull down the practioner straight to a denser level.
I think that's a false view. I may be vibrating at a lower frequency than you are, but whatever frequency a person is operating at, truth is truth and false is false. It doesn't ever change even if you become enlightened.
I would agree with Scott, and take it even further. The notion of 'vibrating at a lower frequency' is in itself potentially extremely misleading.
Taking the right view, and coming up with the right answers, or choosing the right path, is the result of general intelligence or co-ordination, issue-by-issue. It simply doesn't reduce to 'vibrating at a higher frequency'. People who are believed to be 'vibrating at a higher frequency' do stupid stuff and say stupid and wrong things all the time. Their capacity to screw up multiplies by about 100 if they believe that their 'higher frequency' has exempted them from screwing up. Which is part of the common pathology of self-styled 'gurus'.
In this sense, the common mythology of the siddhis is all wrong and dangerous. The siddhis are an increase in vision and skills --- nothing more. (That's my claim and opinion.) They aren't an elevation of vision and skills to infinite, divine levels. Neither is there one single scale of 'higher frequency'. The most common sense of 'higher frequency' seems to be of emotional growth. But there are other domains of growth, such as mental, which are vital for making the right decision and choosing the right path under certain circumstances.
To take some extremes, Mother Teresa may have had some good emotional and devotional development --- she could work in hospice care, but she couldn't be a brain surgeon. She had a high frequency of vibration in one domain, but a modest one in the intellectual domain. The Unabomber was the opposite -- low 'frequency of vibration' emotionally, intellectually very high. He's have made a good brain surgeon, but he couldn't work in hospice care.
There is only skill and co-ordination in various domains. No general 'higher frequency of vibration'.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2006 : 4:33:37 PM
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Namaste David:
Once again, I have to ask how you come to these 'authoritative' conclusions? Your opinion is certainly not one that is shared by Traditional Hindu Scriptures and Yoga Treatises on the subject.
All of these sources refer to what is variously called 'Omkara Nadam', 'Anahat Nadam', 'Pranava Nadam', 'Nad Brahma' or 'Brahman Nadam' as the 'Highest Frequency Cosmic Vibration'....the 'Sound of God'!
I could list page after page of links to sites discussing this topic, but here are a couple that should serve as a good start for more detailed information.
http://vbp.org.in/vbpj/The%20Cosmol...20Mantra.htm
http://www.yogihari.com/nada-yoga.htm
Hari OM!
Doc |
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2006 : 5:20:25 PM
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Maybe I can offer some ideas as to this higher/lower frequency business, using the model of the chakra’s, which I know is too much theory and not practical acc. to AYP but it may help clarify things? Our inner cosmology consists of 7 main chakra’s , which are centers of transformation from lower vibrations to higher vibrations (evolutionary) and vice-versa (involutionary). In Tibetan and Hindu systems the chakra’s have been correlated with the elements:
the rootchakra: the element of earth
the sacral: the element of water
the navel: the element of fire
the heart: the element of air
the throat: the element of ether
the ajna center: the element of light (which is not an element)
(the crown or thousand petalled lotus, a lot more petals than the 4 slowly rotating petals of the rootchakra...) is beyond all of this and inclusive of it I assume.
If you look at these elements, earth is the most dense (its molecules rotate at the slowest possible frequency, almost giving the idea of inertia, consciousness at this level is “sloth” (or however it is expressed properly in English
Water is already more fluid, yet tangible. It vibrates already at a higher frequency level.
Fire can be seen but it moves quickly in all directions
Air is everywhere, one partakes of it, it is in us and outside of us, it can be felt but not contained too well, it is of a much higher and therefor less dense frequency.
Ether, finally, is the astral (?) stuff out of which the other 4 elements finally arose after a process of involutionary scaling down of the frequency.
Consciousness can practically rise up and go down again in all of us. In the company of a great uplifting book, or in meditation, our consciousness rises. Go to the pub and get drunk with some other people, and our consciousness lowers again where there is much more need and craving and less inner wholeness. If I take too much food and become “dense” I will vibrate at a less conscious level (and become slothy). It is a trap almost which needs a higher level to move out of.. (i.e. it is very easy to come down and it takes some doing to get up again). Well, you can surely understand how each one of us has different levels of consciousness within ourselves, equalling different rates of vibration.
Psychologically (or from the viewpoint of the ego) each one of us seems to rebel against the fact that there are higher level people and we ourselves are lower level people (or something to that effect) as deep down inside somewhere (from the level of the soul), we just know we are all special. The fact thus is, we have the entire system within each of us ourselves and can move up and down the scale within ourselves. We all have the potential for higher frequency consciousness and lower frequency consciousness. Don’t we?
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2006 : 8:03:12 PM
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Doc,
You asked David:
quote:
Once again, I have to ask how you come to these 'authoritative' conclusions? Your opinion is certainly not one that is shared by Traditional Hindu Scriptures and Yoga Treatises on the subject.
I'm sure David can answer for himself, but I'd like him to not feel so alone on his opinions if it's still the same as my own.
The Hatha Yoga Pradipika says that knowledge from books is worthless without experience. It also calls for discrimination...an important part of the book which I think we shouldn't leave out. The Bhagavad Gita, as well, calls for discrimination...knowing right from wrong, truth from falseness. "Thinking clearly".
Is it true that the higher frequency you have, the better you can think? I don't personally think so. I don't know of any scriptures which say this is the case. If they do...was it out of the author's educational guessing, or out of experience?
That's all that David was saying (I think)...that our ability to think doesn't correlate with our spiritual vibrations.
In my experience, the yogic path only helps clear thinking in eliminating emotional overtones. But once a person isn't affected so much by the fluctuations of emotions, they still need to be able to tell left from right. Otherwise, even if at a higher frequency, they are wrong. The truth remains the truth whatever level we're at. Falseness doesn't disappear at higher levels, although it may seem to.
In my opinion, David speaks from authority because it's from his own experience rather than reading yoga scriptures which may miss this specific point. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 01:19:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
The Hatha Yoga Pradipika says that knowledge from books is worthless without experience. It also calls for discrimination. The Bhagavad Gita, as well, calls for discrimination. Is it true that the higher frequency you have, the better you can think? That's all that David was saying (I think)...that our ability to think doesn't correlate with our spiritual vibrations.
The truth remains the truth whatever level we're at. In my opinion, David speaks from authority because it's from his own experience rather than reading yoga scriptures which may miss this specific point.
Namaste Scott:
Since you seem to be challenging me to debate this issue with you, I am happy to comply with your wishes.
As a starting point, I find it quite interesting that you apparently value David's opinions, based on his personal experience, whatever that might actually be, and possibly thus your own similar opinions, as a higher benchmark of authority than the Absolute Truth of the Vedas, including the Upanishads, the Puranas, and the Classical Yoga Texts! Wheeew!
If personal experience carries that much authority, then perhaps my own modest experience of nearly 43 years could be considered of some value as well. I began my Yoga Studies and Sadhana in January of 1964. I wonder where you and David were with your Sadhanas in 1964? Nonetheless, I didn't cite my own considerable experience as having any authority regarding the issue of 'Higher Vibration', but instead referred to the Works mentioned earlier as references which refute David's statement that there is "no general higher frequency of vibration". 
Since the Vedas represent the Divine Scriptural Revelation in the Hindu Tradition....the Divine Word manifested in human words....they also thus represent the Divine Powers which created and sustain All as Brahman, the Unified Ultimate Reality of Existence-Consciousness-Bliss (Sat-Chit-Ananda). As such, therefore, the Teachings contained in the Scriptures must be given the highest rank of authority. It is in fact exactly because they contain the Absolute Truth of Divine Authority that they have continued to inspire and instruct countless millions of people in the course of several millenia.
The personal opinions of any mortal individual, regardless of the length or quality of their experience, and no matter how excellent their intellectual prowess may be, are humble and prone to error in comparison! Is this really a point of intelligent debate?
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Nov 26 2006 04:25:58 AM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 04:42:10 AM
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Please let's not get into truth-bashing mode.
My truth is higher than yours, the vedas are the absolute truth,
or the bible, or the koran (sorry german spelling ;-) )
or any other religious (or 'scientific') scripture.
I think it was buddha who said something like: don't believe in
what I say, what anybody says, what any scripture says,
test the truth yourself (and continue doing that, even
after you found something to be true).
Our understanding of the truth differs from individual
to individual (we are all different aspects of truth)
Our understanding of truth evolves (hopefully).
For anyone of us, I believe, it will take eternity to grasp 'the absolute truth'.
And thank God, there is always more to learn (life would be very boring otherwise)
This forum should not be about challenging (aggressivly) somebodys
viewpoint of truth. We cannot and should not impose our
point of view onto somebody else.
So please let's keep this a loving constructive discussion.
L&L
Wolfgang
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 05:11:13 AM
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Dear Scott,David,Doc,
In my experience many of the debates on this forum become distorted from ones own truth because very often it's a case of who shouts loudest.Unfortunately opinions become fact even if they are completely wrong although I am not judging who is right and who is wrong.Opinions are simply opinions and are truth for whoever has them.Neither is right or wrong simply different.Because we have a mixed bag of people here we often have differing opinions and often some actually contradict themselves without realising.Some will say we cannot have truth without scientific evidence, others rely on scriptures or experience.I don't believe we can safely have either.The traditional mind will happily rely on scriptures or experiences.The scientific mind will have the experiences but doubt their worth until given scientific proof.This is unsafe in my opinion because scientific evidence is hearsay unless you have seen it with your own eyes and science only looks at what they actually believe at the time.The scriptures have been proven? over many years although much is difficult to understand unless you can read between the lines.Experiences are real but again difficult to interpret, can we ever say what they mean as they mean something different for all of us.This is why they are simply experiences to be observed along the way.
My guru has been on this path since she was 12 yrs old(she is now 50)and she started her training with Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji a great siddha of India.She is conversant in all the scriptures of India, has read the Koran and Bible several times and has a degree in accountancy.She is very close to full siddha enlightenment and has vast experience.Even so if I was to repeat her teachings on here someone would know better or disagree.So authority through experience does not bring authority but only ego if you are stating that anothers opinions are wrong.These are my opinions and are only correct for me.
L&L
Dave
' You need to be the change you wish to see in the world' Mahatma Ghandi |
Edited by - riptiz on Nov 26 2006 06:18:06 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 06:26:39 AM
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Buddhism talks about reaching the farther shore, referred to in the Heart Sutra.
The journey to the Farther Shore is often seen to be traversed on a raft.
The journey is the journey of seeing past one illusion after another - or unblock the obstructions - untill finally the person steps onto the farther shore.
Many of us here have had glimpses of the farther shore - the state of "being" or "oneness" or "spaciousness", at least that is my perception of what a glimpse of it is (could be totally wrong ha ha!).
The one pre-requisite for this state, is to let go of all concepts, ideas, memories, analyses etc.
Some questions are:
Is it necessary to know everything in the physical universe to reach this state?
my answer - no.
Could a person be illiterate and uneducated and be in this state?
my answer - yes.
Is it possible to walk on the farther shore with the raft strapped to one's back?
my answer - probably.
What is the point in learning anything and analysing anything if it is not actually necessary to reach the farther shore?
my answer - I don't know
Is there only one path to the farther shore
my answer - certainly not.
Louis
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 08:15:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
In my experience many of the debates on this forum become distorted from ones own truth because very often it's a case of who shouts loudest.
Too true riptiz...  ... also as the focus constantly changes... and logic is ignored almost totally as people are so attached to their views...
On the subject of siddhis it is exactly like arguing over whether pink elephants exist. Those that have seen them know them, those that have not cannot by any means of logic prove their non-existence. And on the more practical level of Yoga development Doc has eloquently pointed out why some pink-elephant hunters/deniers are likely never to find them.
What's left to explain?!? What is genuinely left to discuss in this thread?!?
As JKGalbraith famously said: "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."
So nothing new there then
peace to all & double-meditation for the forum-wrestlers 
Mike |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 09:02:10 AM
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Yes, I've noticed that, but this forum is just a little mirror reflecting the real world. The everyday world is exactly like that.
That is why, in our country at least, people's opinions are influenced the most by creating fear and hate and alarm, and by charismatic personalities. People love movies here, and real life is looked at like a movie. Remember the story of chicken little, who ran around saying "the sky is falling?" Well here, everyone believes him and helps to look for evidence, and doesn't investigate evidence to the contrary!
Also I've noticed it has to do with complexity. People believe the truth is simple, so if you can make up an argument which seems to be true and is very easy to understand, while the real truth is complicated and hard to understand, people will believe the simple lie. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2006 : 09:25:25 AM
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Hi Etherfish,
Yes we may be reflecting the 'real' world(maya) but if ego, anger and hatred etc are regarded as obstructions to THE real world then consider how much longer it will take to reach the other shore.All the yoga practices combined are not enough to gain realisation without a correct mindset.Meditating daily and then robbing a bank, committing murder can hardly be considered as constructive towards gaining enlightenment so why should shouting, berating,belittling others etc be considered any different? To quote Abraham Maslow (one of the pioneers of person centred counselling)it's about "becoming the best person you possibly can be." Now WHO can argue with that statement?
L&L
Dave
' you need to be the change you wish to see in the world ' Mahatma Ghandi |
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What are the obstructions?
