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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2017 : 3:25:47 PM
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Dear fellow meditators,
after years of practicing DM I'm still not sure if I am either highly undersensitive or simply doing it wrong.
One particular thought causes some frustration during most meditation sessions: What does thinking the mantra mean?
When I am repeating the mantra, this thinking has no inner voice. This means, I cannot repeat the mantra and listen to it at the same time. It feels more like "repeating and somehow knowing that I am repeating it".
Alternatively, I can imagine that repeating/saying/thinking the mantra could mean hearing it with some inner voice, either my own voice, the voice of Yogani's recording, or whatever voice comes to mind during a particular session.
The reason I am asking is not only out of theoretical curiosity. My particular situation is that halfway through a meditation session I know that I am intentionally thinking the mantra, but I cannot hear what I am thinking. There's no "inner sound". In this situation, imagining someone's voice saying the mantra helps, but needs a lot of energy, and somehow feels wrong.
Therefore I would like to know how you repeat/think/say/imagine/listen to the mantra? As an abstract thought, or rather as a voice you can perceive with your inner ear (whatever that means).
I know that the mantra can change in various ways. But how do you start a session?
Thanks in advance! |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2017 : 5:07:54 PM
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quote:
When I am repeating the mantra, this thinking has no inner voice. This means, I cannot repeat the mantra and listen to it at the same time. It feels more like "repeating and somehow knowing that I am repeating it".
My experience is the mantra is spoken but not with a voice box, and it is heard but not by the ear, yet it is there none the less. It is sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes sing-song, sometimes weak. I watch it but not by any eye, and let it be what it will, going back to it easily if it has wandered off somewhere.
This kind of serendipity is what keeps me coming to the cushion.  Welcome, Ridetanto! |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2017 : 5:41:17 PM
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Hi ridetanto
quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
Therefore I would like to know how you repeat/think/say/imagine/listen to the mantra? As an abstract thought, or rather as a voice you can perceive with your inner ear (whatever that means).
Either. Whatever 'repeating the mantra' means to you will work fine. Essentially, the mantra is a thought, so you're absolutely fine. For some it develops into something like an inner sound or vibration,but that's not something you make happen - if it goes that way you let it, if it doesn't that's fine.
quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
I'm still not sure if I am either highly undersensitive
What AYP techniques other than DM have you tried, if any? |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2017 : 6:51:40 PM
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| I certainly start it as silently speaking the mantra without any motion for subvocalization. After a while it becomes thinner and fainter. When I go off the mantra it tends to thin again very quickly. I tend not to get into the semantics of what I am doing nor say the correctness of how will may or may not be applied. When my timer's chime strikes or I otherwise choose to stop, that is an application of will. |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2017 : 6:53:26 PM
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| sorry, "when I go off the mantra and restart it" |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2017 : 04:22:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
Dear fellow meditators,
after years of practicing DM I'm still not sure if I am either highly undersensitive or simply doing it wrong.
One particular thought causes some frustration during most meditation sessions: What does thinking the mantra mean?
When I am repeating the mantra, this thinking has no inner voice. This means, I cannot repeat the mantra and listen to it at the same time. It feels more like "repeating and somehow knowing that I am repeating it".
Perfect. Dear ridetanto, you are doing just fine. And what do we do when we find we are off in analysis of about how to think the mantra? Yes! we go back to favouring the mantra.
quote:
Alternatively, I can imagine that repeating/saying/thinking the mantra could mean hearing it with some inner voice, either my own voice, the voice of Yogani's recording, or whatever voice comes to mind during a particular session.
Let go off these imaginings.
quote:
The reason I am asking is not only out of theoretical curiosity. My particular situation is that halfway through a meditation session I know that I am intentionally thinking the mantra, but I cannot hear what I am thinking. There's no "inner sound". In this situation, imagining someone's voice saying the mantra helps, but needs a lot of energy, and somehow feels wrong.
Again, it is just fine. No need to imagine someone saying it. No need to hear it either but there is a need to re-introduce it now that you are off it, thinking all that stuff. The mantra refines to just a vibration and that is ok as long as we don't start analyzing. If we start analyzing, we are off the mantra.
However, why do you feel you are under-sensitive? If you have been doing DM for some years, how's your daily life? Do you experience some degree of the Witness?
Sey 
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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2017 : 12:24:41 PM
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Thank you all for the encouraging responses! This should be enough to let go of some doubts and expectations during meditation.
I am not aware of any increase in inner silence in daily life, or even some relaxation after meditation. The only effect I feel is a good deal of doubt and frustration during and shortly after meditation. This is due my constant struggle with the correct use of the mantra and the ever-growing expectations to, finally, 'get it'.
I know, that's not how it works :)
Regarding other AYP practices, I generally do a few minutes of SBP before meditation. I don't feel like starting any other practices while still being in the clunky stage of meditation.
Thanks again! |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2017 : 1:14:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
This is due my constant struggle with the correct use of the mantra and the ever-growing expectations to, finally, 'get it'.
I know, that's not how it works :)
Hi ridetanto,
When these thoughts come up outside of meditation. Gently remind yourself, that the point of these practices is to just "Be".
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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2017 : 4:12:50 PM
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| Thanks sunyata |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2017 : 05:25:39 AM
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Dear ridetanto,
It would be good to know how long you have been doing AYP DM. I note years in your first email and clunky phase last a couple of weeks - so if you are not noticing Inner silence or the witness arising after years, it is indeed possible that you are under-sensitive. Do tell us more so that we can guide you better.
As for your "Thinking v/s listening"... Thinking has the nuance of an action; Listening is more passive and open. While you start off with thinking the mantra (you introduce it as a thought), after that your attitude should be more an open and listening i.e. totally relaxed, always favouring the mantra. It is normal and usual that at some point strain creeps in. What I do at that point, I take a deep breath, relax and re-introduce the mantra.
Sey
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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2017 : 2:22:23 PM
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Hi Sey,
I have to say that the 3 meditations since yesterday went better than before, so maybe I just needed some reassurance. 
Before, nearly all thoughts during meditation were thoughts about the correct procedure. It's hard to favor the mantra if all thoughts are doubts about how to say the mantra. That changed, at least for now.
I started AYP DM about 5 years ago, interrupted by extended excursions into other meditation techniques (just sitting, breath). I always tried to practice DM at least 3-6 months in a row, to give the mantra and me a fair chance. I'm now at month 4, once again.
Thanks for your support! |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2017 : 01:25:25 AM
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Dear ridetanto,
Pleasure is all mine. I would strongly recommend that you start spinal breathing pranayama if you have not tried it yet. It would add depth to your meditation. And AYP DM we do only 2x a day; 3x a day is for retreat circumstances only.
Best of luck in your practices
Sey |
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reidmantra
United Arab Emirates
57 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2017 : 10:00:24 AM
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| Hi Sey. Reidmantra here. I can totally relate to ridetanto! I have been doing DM for a little over 2 years and feel the exact same way he does. I too am under-sensitive and I too even after several posts and great responses still am plagued with a nagging feeling that I am meditating incorrectly. I read your response to ridetanto and the technique can't possibly be that gentle and easy. You seem to be saying, unless I am missing something, that at the beginning of meditation we pick up the mantra and then simply listen to it as it takes its own course. It can get faster or slower, clearer or fainter or may even become distorted and we just let it go as it is going to go. When the mantra disappears and we don't hear it or when the mind is off on thought then we just easily pick up the mantra again and then have an attitude of gently listening and let the process start over again. Is this DM? - Reidmantra |
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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2017 : 12:28:35 PM
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Thanks for your help, Sey.
Sorry for being unclear: I do DM only 2x a day. But I had 3 meditations since i wrote the last time. Now 4 |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2017 : 10:06:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
I started AYP DM about 5 years ago, interrupted by extended excursions into other meditation techniques (just sitting, breath). I always tried to practice DM at least 3-6 months in a row, to give the mantra and me a fair chance. I'm now at month 4, once again.
Hi ridetanto,
It looks like you are digging too many wells. Stick with one and see it all the way through.May I ask the reason for switching techniques?
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ridetanto
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2017 : 03:09:54 AM
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First things first: Now that I have stopped worrying whether I can hear the mantra while saying it, my meditations and the times afterwards have been quite relaxed.
My habit of meditation s/hopping: Yes, I dug way too many holes. When you practice meditation faithfully every morning and evening for several months, and you fail to notice any positive effect whatsoever, it's easy to lose faith in the technique.
I guess that's one of the main problems when you walk the path alone, without a regular group or teacher, who tell you to be patient and just hold on for one more month.
The insight that the AYP forum can serve this very function came very late for me.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2017 : 04:44:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by reidmantra
Hi Sey. Reidmantra here. I can totally relate to ridetanto! I have been doing DM for a little over 2 years and feel the exact same way he does. I too am under-sensitive and I too even after several posts and great responses still am plagued with a nagging feeling that I am meditating incorrectly. I read your response to ridetanto and the technique can't possibly be that gentle and easy. You seem to be saying, unless I am missing something, that at the beginning of meditation we pick up the mantra and then simply listen to it as it takes its own course. It can get faster or slower, clearer or fainter or may even become distorted and we just let it go as it is going to go. When the mantra disappears and we don't hear it or when the mind is off on thought then we just easily pick up the mantra again and then have an attitude of gently listening and let the process start over again. Is this DM? - Reidmantra
Dear Reidmantra - 
Yes, indeed, it is meant to be gentle and easy!! Every technique at AYP is meant to be gentle and easy. And yes, that is DM. And yes, You are still doing it right (since the last time you asked) . Let go off the constant nagging of the mind on whether you are doing it right or not.
But hey - there are plenty of techniques in the AYP toolbox to spice things up for you. Are you still doing Spinal Breathing Pranayama or did you give up on that? Loads of add-ones there.
There is something you must realize with DM - it is rarely going to take you to some grand state of perfect Stillness and feel "deep" . I don't think it's meant to. However, the results of DM is felt over months and years as a Stillness that arises during your daily activity and keeps you blissful and steadfast. A radiance creeps in.
Sey |
Edited by - SeySorciere on May 11 2017 04:47:29 AM |
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reidmantra
United Arab Emirates
57 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:03:23 AM
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| Hi Sey. All I can say is I'm sorry. I know I ask the same questions again and again. I guess I just need a lot of reassurance. Again, I am sorry for this. I had stopped doing spinal breathing for a few months but after getting some `signs' from my Higher Power, I am ready to start it again. I practice Ayp samyama too. I don't know why I can't trust my inner guru. I guess I am just intuitively immature or something. I believe that will change at some point, but this is just the state of spiritual evolution I am at right now. Thank you for the reassurance Sey. I have and do appreciate all the people that write answers to fellow meditators questions and problems, that includes you too. Namaste and Om Shanti. - Reidmantra |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:28:26 AM
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| If it helps you just ask reidmantra, therefore is this forum. You are doing fine. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2017 : 1:51:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ridetanto
First things first: Now that I have stopped worrying whether I can hear the mantra while saying it, my meditations and the times afterwards have been quite relaxed.
My habit of meditation s/hopping: Yes, I dug way too many holes. When you practice meditation faithfully every morning and evening for several months, and you fail to notice any positive effect whatsoever, it's easy to lose faith in the technique.
I guess that's one of the main problems when you walk the path alone, without a regular group or teacher, who tell you to be patient and just hold on for one more month.
The insight that the AYP forum can serve this very function came very late for me.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2017 : 05:25:04 AM
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Dear Reidmantra,
No need to apologise. I am very happy to be of help. It's always better to ask than stay in doubt. You make me smile.
Sey |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2017 : 08:05:45 AM
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Hi everyone
@redetanto and reidmantra
The perfect path does not exist. We all have to feel our way and do the best we can in the circumstances. As they say, "the way to success is always under construction".
You guys are doing great
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Topic |
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Thinking vs. Inner Listening
