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joseph
117 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 27 2016 : 2:53:28 PM
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Lately I'm having trouble sleeping enough or deeply enough. I wake several times in the night and am often dozing instead of really sleeping. In the morning I feel tired.
I've noticed that unblocking the sinuses is important to sleep so I've started doing jala neti, and nasal breathing throughout the day. Besides this and the obvious factors of exercise, eating times, etc, I ask if there is anything else we can do to gain more control during our sleep (without waiting decades for when we'll be more advanced  ).
Essentially, I want to increase time spent in deep sleep and reduce time in dream, and have an experience of dreams as less vivid, more subtle/blissful. I wonder what is the purpose of the dream state (I often wake thinking that all the dreams were pointless and tiring and would be best if stopped), and can we, if we progress spiritually or mentally to such a degree, choose to go without dream sleep? Have any of you done this over a prolonged period? |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2016 : 4:15:57 PM
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I'm in a similar boat. I have lots of vivid dreams, and not as much nothingness as I would like. Cosmic samyama before sleep seems to be helping though. I self-pace with it. Also, physical exercise during the day is important.
I used to be able to go for longer periods with dreamless sleep in my adolescence, and also be in control during my dreams.
If something has been done before, it can surely be done again. I love that feeling of disappearing into eternity. Just keep feeding the desire. Very simple.
Best wishes. |
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JR8036
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2016 : 4:49:10 PM
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| I am in the dreamless state right now, I occasionally have a few dreams but not near as many as I used to have. The ones I do get are not as vivid as they used to be either |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2016 : 5:12:21 PM
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My understanding of dreams is they often work out scenerios of anxiousness, anticipations, worries, fears, etc, that we harbor in the recent past, present, and/or future. I suppose if one were to be mindful of these conditions and attributes in our wakeful state, then perhaps we would not tackle them in our sleep. So far as dream control, perhaps learning lucid dreaming techniques could allow you to calm active dreams; what effect this could have on restfulness is uncertain. My own sleep this past year has been relatively restful and only six hours long. Sorry, I don't have specific advice to give you on why this is so.
I do believe focusing on restlessness and insomnia could be adding to the issue. My wife is a much lighter sleeper than I and needs much more time to drift off than I do, which is why I often go to bed hours after she does. I like Bodhi's suggestion of cosmic samyama as this takes the focus off of the problem and directs your attention way far away from the bedroom. Many times blissful prana rages within as soon as I close my eyes; if I focus on it I have more trouble dropping off. In this instance I mimic deep sleep breathing, slow full inhales/exhales; I am able to overcome the bliss attachment and drop off naturally. Hope you find solutions that could work for you. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2016 : 5:56:25 PM
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Hi Joseph
It might be a self pacing and grounding issue. I find that taking a walk in the evening usually leads to better sleep for me. And if I overload my sleep becomes less deep and less restful.
IMO it's best to let your brain 'manage its own affairs' so to speak. Dreams have their own function and the mechanisms or REM sleep are not fully understood. We know the duration of REM decreases with age. Babies spend a lot longer in REM than older people. So it might not all have to do with emotional baggage, there might be a brain development function to it.
If your practice leads you to less dreaming and reduced sleeping hours, that's fine. I personally don't see it as matter of choice or control, more as allowing things to evolve naturally as you progress in yoga. |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2016 : 5:23:39 PM
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Thanks all. I don't know how to quote properly so I'll do it like this:
Bodhi, I used to do relaxation exercises before sleep (similar to cosmic samyama) and would sleep well on the nights I did it. I think I went too deep on a few occasions though and had some jolting energy sensations when drifting off. I'd then wake two hours later feeling really energized and ready to go. Would be good to find some balance in between! I got put off that practice by the jolting (and overload in waking life), but will take it up again in a much shorter form and see how it goes. Self pacing.. critical.
JR, Sounds ideal. It's perhaps how we are meant to have dreams.
Dogboy, I've heard this theory that they work out scenarios of anxiousness. I think there's a lot of truth in that. Why it's necessary, however, and is it inevitable, are whole other questions. One would think, hope, that over time these kinds of dreams will become less frequent. I think I'm less anxious than I used to be, but it's difficult to tell really, and the body may be harboring the energy of years-old anxiety.
Blue Raincoat, I do have difficulty grounding a lot of the time. This definitely adds to the troubles in sleep. It's good to hear that the duration of REM decreases with age. Is this proven? I wish I could share your approach in letting things evolve naturally as we progress, but there's just a lot of desire to reduce the power that dreams have. I have read a good book on lucid dreaming (Stephen LaBerge) and may pick it up again, but as Eckhart Tolle says, there are enough things to work on in our daily lives  |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2016 : 1:26:21 PM
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Hi joseph
quote:
Originally posted by joseph
It's good to hear that the duration of REM decreases with age. Is this proven?
Yes, I wouldn't know it otherwise. There are plenty of studies. Here is one done on adults, showing duration REM decreases in the 50s and beyond. If you're in your 30s though, it's typical to experince a lengthening of REM compared to the previous decade.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2464482
Interestingly, changes in REM duration have something to do with the the pineal gland:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1342022
So yoga might trigger some alterations in your sleep/dreaming patterns if it produces changes in the pineal gland. The thing is you don't really know what you tinker with, so give yourself some slack. Grounding more seems like a good idea in any case.
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2016 : 3:59:07 PM
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Hi Joseph,
I read in the book "Conscious Sleeping" (Arion Light) that in bed just before sleep is good to mentally revive what you did in your day so that it is processed and your sleep is deeper and need less sleep. It also advocates breathing in the belly. I usually do that or something similar to cosmic samyama (Yoga nidra by swami j), breathing in the point where I focus to relax the body more. Or breath and listen to the inner Om sound until I get asleep.  |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2016 : 5:47:30 PM
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Thanks for the links and info, Blue Raincoat. Well, it could get worse before it gets better then, as I'm in my twenties at the moment!
I am definitely all for grounding, every day :)
Cheers for the tip Will Power. I'm going to try this tonight. |
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Dream and deep sleep question
