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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 1:17:57 PM
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| During Kumbhakas and more so during Nauli there is an intense fear of death, as I can't stop thinking of the similarity of the breath stoppage with death. The more intense I do, greater becomes the fear, and I dread the next Pranayama session on account of this. There also arises the fear of loss of senses at death, especially of the sight, since we are more attached to sight than the other senses. I don't know how I will ever transcend these fears. I think any underwater diver is a better Yogi than me. Its ben 10 years of Yoga but nothing yet. If I see any inner light I will get some confidence but nothing yet. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Aug 29 2016 1:21:24 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 3:28:04 PM
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You obviously are attached to mind games, for if kumbaka were a killer there would be dead yogis left and right. Why even cross a street? You might be killed by a truck. Why eat food? You can easily choke on it. This is no way to live, in fact by living in irrational fear in many ways you are dead already.
Challenge every irrational fear by dismissing it, releasing it into silence. You will never experience inner light as long as you allow your mind to drive this car. |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 8:26:51 PM
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| I didn't say I thought Kumbhaka would kill me. I said it brings out the primal fear. Think of children crying at swimming pool even though their parents are there and the guide is there. Irrational or not, the fear is primal. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 9:03:25 PM
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Hi Fake Yogi,
As always if this fear is due to overload then self pace. Here is Lesson 259- Fear and Enlightenment.
quote:
Cultivating inner silence over time will reduce our tendency to be ruled by fear. So you are on the right track with deep meditation. But the solution does not come overnight, as you are seeing. It takes some persistence over time. Gradually adding additional practices from the lessons (spinal breathing pranayama is next) will help deepen the flow of pure bliss consciousness in our nervous system, and progressively reduce the bite of fear. The idea is not to eliminate fear. Rather, we are to systematically move our center of awareness beyond it.
What is fear anyway? It is a product of the deep-rooted perception that we will lose something -- possessions, our health, our life. Can we ever get rid of fear? No, I don't think so. It is a natural biological function that actually serves a purpose -- it causes us to act in ways that are in the interest of our preservation. Fear is one of nature's ways of preserving the species.
If we cannot get rid of fear, what is the best way to relate to it? The way is to cultivate our ability to live beyond it in pure bliss consciousness. Then we can use fear in a rational way. When the truck is coming straight at us, we step out of the way. Like that. Will we sit around wringing our hands because the bills are due and there is not enough money? Not if we are steady in our inner silence. We will still feel fear, but we will act more rationally to find solutions to our challenges. So fear will be a voice that says, "Better do something about that." For example, I have some fear about the AYP lessons disappearing from the web in a mishap. So what do I do? I see about ways to back them up. That is a rational use of fear, yes?
Irrational fear is the product of a nervous system out of balance. We can be born with it, or be cultivating it with our conduct in this life. Often it is both -- one leads to the other in a cycle of causes and effects -- behaviors carried over from life to life. Yoga can break the cycle. In fact, fear, like every emotion, can be converted into pure bhakti. Fear can become a great friend on the spiritual path. We can modify our response so the more fear we have, the more we will want to act to move forward toward enlightenment. This is the highest use of fear. See lesson #67 for more on the method of bhakti.
It has been said that a hero is a coward who has learned to use his fear to inspire great acts. So, like everyone, you have that huge emotional energy that can be converted into great things -- even into enlightenment. You are doing that now with your practices, yes? Your fear is driving you to a very high path.
As for doing practices all day, remembrance, etc., in AYP we go for a balance between sitting practices and normal daily activity. This provides for a deep merging with pure bliss consciousness and the rise of ecstatic conductivity in our sittings, and then going out into our daily activity in a spirit of doing good in the world, no matter what our job or station in life may be. With inner silence cultivated in the morning, we don't have to be thinking about it all day to integrate it into our nervous system. We just go and be active. That is good enough.
Remembrance is something that will come up naturally as our perception gradually changes over time. In the AYP approach, remembrance is an effect more than a cause. It is an experience that rises naturally in our life of doing our daily sitting practices, and then going out and being in the world without pretense one way or the other. We just go into silence, let it go, and go out and act according to our heart's desires. That's all. The rest is automatic. The nervous system will be changed dramatically over time by that cycle of going in and coming out. If we want to do more, the best thing to do is work on building up our twice-daily sitting practices, applying the principles of self-pacing as we do. Then our nervous system will be charged with more and more inner silence and ecstatic bliss, and we will be integrating those qualities in our normal daily activities. Our activity will become worship of the divine within and all around us. It is not a belabored practice, this worship. It is a joyful, natural outcome of deeply cultivating the divine in our sitting practices every day.
Obviously, we make many decisions every day. Over time, our decisions become colored by inner steadiness, ecstatic bliss and rising divine love. Even our fears become colored by the divine, and we act accordingly. That is how things change. So, be easy in your practices, and be easy in daily life. Be tolerant of your negative emotions. Do not judge yourself too harshly. Just gently turn your emotional energy toward cultivating your yoga practices. Everything is going to be all right. Just stay the course with twice daily practices, and the rest will come along naturally.
I wish you all success on your continuing spiritual journey. Enjoy!
The guru is in you
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Edited by - sunyata on Aug 29 2016 9:11:36 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 10:52:44 PM
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Nice find Sunyata, Yogani laid it out smoother than I:
quote:
We just go into silence, let it go, and go out and act according to our heart's desires. That's all. The rest is automatic. The nervous system will be changed dramatically over time by that cycle of going in and coming out. If we want to do more, the best thing to do is work on building up our twice-daily sitting practices, applying the principles of self-pacing as we do.
Sorry if I'd seemed blunt, FY, Sunyata is right, if you are gripped in this rough, primal way then you should dial back practice. To transcend as you wish still means inquiring about (observing) them, and letting it go, over and over if necessary. Most likely, this phase is temporary. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2016 : 5:01:16 PM
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Hi my friend, why are you comparing yourself to others? Everybody is different and has a different history, past experiences and evolution depending on what they do now.
Can you let go of the comparison between you and everyone else?
Can you let go of self judgment?
For a long time, I was sad because my tongue was very far away from my uvula (much more than others) and I thought that I could not achieve kechari in this lifetime. However I kept trying and after some years I achieved it. Don't judge yourself, give every action to God, let go of the results of your actions and go on with the spiritual practices.
Best wishes
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 12:07:44 PM
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| I'm goddamn 34 yrs old now. My mom is 54, dad 67. I wanted to find the secrets of life and help them. Not much time is left for them, and nothing much happening in me. It is getting more frightening day by day as they get older each day... Even worse is the case with my grandparents of mom's side who are left alive but counting their days... |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 1:18:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by FakeYogi
I'm goddamn 34 yrs old now. My mom is 54, dad 67. I wanted to find the secrets of life and help them. Not much time is left for them, and nothing much happening in me. It is getting more frightening day by day as they get older each day... Even worse is the case with my grandparents of mom's side who are left alive but counting their days...
I kinda understand. I've felt the death fear and backed away more than once. I can't say that I know exactly what you are experiencing. I'm older than you, and I've felt like I gotta get this done to help people. Anyway, it's best to slow down a bit in my opinion. |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 1:33:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
I kinda understand. I've felt the death fear and backed away more than once. I can't say that I know exactly what you are experiencing. I'm older than you, and I've felt like I gotta get this done to help people. Anyway, it's best to slow down a bit in my opinion.
Thanks for the kindness. But contrary to wanting to slow down I want to accelerate. I want to see some light when I close my eyes. It is just dark when I close my eyes, just like for a lay person who never did Yoga in life. Just imagining the absence of one sense is freaking me out, and at death all senses go away. This illusion of life is frustrating but at the same time I can't see anything beyond. It must all be due to the 6 years of continued nocturnal emissions that I often post about, that closed down my chakras. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 2:04:11 PM
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I've seen all kinds of things. I'm no more enlightened than your average Joe. I get frustrated, too. With my family, I just called all of them and told them how horrible I thought I was. We have real relationships now. I told my parents how I used to think they were horrible, but no longer think that. We have honest relationships.
This is just my thing, sorry if it doesn't resonate. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2016 : 4:23:56 PM
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Hi FakeYogi,
I think it's very human to have fear of the unknown. What matters is to keep practicing, allowing the fear to be there and not let it stop you. of course, self pacing when required.
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Edited by - sunyata on Sep 20 2016 4:25:25 PM |
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kailash
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 12:57:36 AM
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If it is really such a large obstacle, remember that you can achieve samadhi without the kumbhakas and nauli... it may be better to simply drop them from your practice for now. You certainly do not want to do practices that you dread.
It sounds like you have some deep issues with fear of death in general. Do you have any physical guru that you have faith in? Death does not involve the loss of the senses, if anything it greatly enhances your sensory perception as your enter the higher spheres of existence (astral,mental,causal) However, this statement wont do you any good unless you have faith that this is true. If you don't have faith in the worlds scriptures and teachings of all the great spiritual teachers of the past, who directly perceived this reality, then developing a personal relationship with a guru can help a lot.
fear will drop away slowly as your meditation deepens, but sometimes, it is best to simply accept that your are afraid of these things. It may not remove them, but it will bring some level of peace, a peace which is valuable in your steady developement as an individual.
I respect that you wish to help your parents and grandparents. I assure you that, when the time comes and they pass, they will be astonished and pleased that there was nothing to fear all along. If you wish to allay their fears while they are still living, it may be easier to find a guru that they can learn from, if you feel that your progress is not coming along quickly enough.
I dont know what your sadhana has been like these last few years, and I have not read your previous posts regarding your nocturnal emissions. But if they are happening too often, that can certainly slow your progress and stop you from seeing the inner light, which typically only arises when you have a certain level of prana built up. This prana of course being sublimated sexual energy. So do what you can to take stop these emissions from happening if possible.
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 01:56:09 AM
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Thanks kailash for the understanding and reply. Yes I have always had deep issues with fear of death, and fear of death of my mom since childhood. Now after all these years the concern has only widened to include all my relatives. And guilt about the dead ones such as as my paternal grandparents, whom I didn't help in anyway. How much anxiety they should have felt at their last breath.
You are right, I'm unable to take it for granted that death is not to be feared or that bit about senses still being present. Sense organs such as eyesight as I understand, are the result of millions of years of evolution, fine tuned to the level and wavelengths of sunlight on this planet, of our particular star, etc. Even then it doesn't work automatically for new born babies. They see a flood of bright light with no distinctions, then slowly start figuring out shapes and their brain learns. It is miraculously complicated, each sense of perception, and yet, they appear to be not a property of the soul but only of the body (further proof: bats are blind, if bats had a soul what would a sense of sight mean to it? Or do people born blind have "blind" souls?). So I need more than mere faith to think I won't be blind, deaf, dumb, etc after death. Heck, even the "I" won't be there, or else I would remember my past births. Contemplation on the infinite complexity with which the body works leads to the logical conclusion that the body appears to take soul (or not, the concept of soul needs redundant to me), not the otherway round. Contemplation on that fact that alive babies are produced since the moment of conception, not lifeless babies that later become alive, also leads to the same conclusion. That thinking is also what led to my widened concern for the lineages of bodies that led to my body, because in my line of thinking I'm literally an extension of them. In other words, with my current conviction, reincarnation = reproduction for me. So physical realm is all that I the idiot have.
About nocturnal emissions, they tore me apart for 6 years and prevented any progress. Very recently (in the past month) I seem to have gained some control over it, I will make a post about it sometime after I'm sure.
I did instruct my mom how to meditate and do SBP but although she does, she doesn't have enough Bhakti, nor understand my concerns although I keep explaining my best. |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Sep 24 2016 02:52:37 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 08:00:06 AM
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What do you think has become of the young and old men?
And what do you think has become of the women and children?
They are alive and well somewhere,
The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,
And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the
end to arrest it,
And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.
All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier.
-Walt Whitman
The cycle of life perpetually recreates itself. That is increasingly apparent with simple observation. Stillness helps refine one's acuity of observation and contemplation.
Stillness before energy. Calmness before ecstasy. The seed before the flower.
You don't have to hold your breath to see light through the third eye. I just put a little pressure on my closed eyes with my fingertips (on the lateral side of the fingers, not the anterior side where the fingerprint lines are), and the light comes streaming in. It's like very naturally rubbing them, with maybe a very subtle and easy side-to-side, upward motion and traction). The pressurized rubbing of the eyes is like self-massage of the head—it's something intuitive and instinctive. If you approach the technique more like a curious child exploring his own body playfully, you may have more success. I wouldn't try to be all static and fixed; let it be a little more dynamic and exploratory, including allowing yourself to breathe deeply.
It'll happen. Remember, yoga is just a label we put on maneuvers that we innately possess. All this stuff arises because we're trying to relax more, and yes, to get some ecstasy. And we can stay relaxed while getting the ecstasy and giving it away. It's meant to be given away in the form of creativity, innovation, loving touch, and ten thousand other things, some of which you are definitely already doing, so give yourself some credit.
It's not something that will stay bottled up or kept in a secret corner. It wants to flow outward, more than to be locked away in a safe, or only given to a few people. It's for the many, not just the few. So don't be trying to grab onto it and hold it with such a tight grip. Just playfully nudge it, and be willing to let it become an outpouring of stillness in action.
Don't lose hope! And remember to find the joy in grounding activities on the exterior. The interior responds well to how we interact with the exterior, because it's a multi-directional revolving door. Swinging round and round... |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Sep 24 2016 08:17:06 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 08:38:57 AM
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P.S. I'm also 34. Will be 35 in December. Getting closer to immortality, day by day... |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 11:43:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I just put a little pressure on my closed eyes with my fingertips (on the lateral side of the fingers, not the anterior side where the fingerprint lines are)
Actually, I realize that the fingerprint lines wrap along the lateral sides too, but if you were to give fingerprints using an ink pad, it would mainly come from the anterior side (the same side as the open palm).
Also, the anterior sides of the fingers will naturally rest on the inferior edge of the eye socket where the the zygomatic and maxillary bones meet.
Pictures speak louder than words, so I took one to show what I'm talking about. Here is the resting position (with room for very gentle wiggling/rubbing): http://ayprecovery.org/wp-content/u...ariation.jpg
It's a strong practice, so it must be self-paced. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2016 : 11:53:45 AM
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quote Bodhi
quote:
It'll happen. Remember, yoga is just a label we put on maneuvers that we innately possess. All this stuff arises because we're trying to relax more, and yes, to get some ecstasy. And we can stay relaxed while getting the ecstasy and giving it away. It's meant to be given away in the form of creativity, innovation, loving touch, and ten thousand other things, some of which you are definitely already doing, so give yourself some credit.
It's not something that will stay bottled up or kept in a secret corner. It wants to flow outward, more than to be locked away in a safe, or only given to a few people. It's for the many, not just the few. So don't be trying to grab onto it and hold it with such a tight grip. Just playfully nudge it, and be willing to let it become an outpouring of stillness in action.
This, this, this |
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Lakulisha
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2016 : 10:35:43 AM
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FakeYogi,
I agree with Kailash here, consider some contact with what he called a guru, but anyone who is well-rooted in non-fear would do nicely.
There was a problem we discussed recently here which is related, one of general dread, although it is not quite the same.
I piped in with my own experience: paradoxically, I found that recognizing that I was NOT in control helped reduce my dread. (See a chapter on Control by Adyashanti, in Emptiness Dancing.) Also, by another method related to what Kailash said, I started putting up pictures of Siva, and being conscious of his right hand, which is a blessing hand, which I also interpret as "I've got it covered".
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2016 : 09:13:29 AM
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Hi Fakeyogi et all,
I would urge everyone to read "Journey of souls" by Dr. Michael Newton". All fear of death will vanish soon as you internalize what he writes.
Also, it is the suffering associated with death that we all fear, not death itself.
Krish |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2016 : 11:39:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Hi Fakeyogi et all,
I would urge everyone to read "Journey of souls" by Dr. Michael Newton". All fear of death will vanish soon as you internalize what he writes.
Also, it is the suffering associated with death that we all fear, not death itself.
Krish
I've read it. I also worked in a nursing home. The real life witnessing of death trumps anything in a book, of course the book is what happens afterwards. |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2016 : 07:21:20 AM
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BodhiTree, it is interesting to note that sometimes when doing the YMK with nudging the eyes towards the 3rd with the index fingers, my middle fingers would want to press the interior of the eyes like you said, although I'd never read about it.
I think the advice about getting external gurus for my parents is a sound one, but the first problem is that they don't seem have enough Bhakti. My mom would skip or shorten a meditation for less important things like cooking, even though I keep urging her to hire a maid for such nonsensical things, and tell her to instead spend her time in Yoga and reading Yoga books.
Walt Whitman and Micheal Newton must be fakes. Observation of nature only suggest that I already wrote, that reincarnation is reproduction. DNA carries Karma, and nature never misses an opportunity to use the most efficient mechanism possible. It is a far-cry to imagine that this would not happen, and instead karma would somehow get relayed wirelessly to a different dimension after death and back to the physical dimension at the precise moment when two people are having sex and exactly when a particular sperm achieved its destiny. Whoa. Far far complex than to use the DNA to transmit karma from parent to child. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2016 : 08:47:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by FakeYogi
Walt Whitman and Micheal Newton must be fakes.
Some more Whitman for you:
There is that in me—I do not know what it is—but I know it is in me.
I do not know it—it is without name—it is a word unsaid,
It is not in any dictionary, utterance, symbol.
Something it swings on more than the earth I swing on,
To it the creation is the friend whose embracing awakes me.
Perhaps I might tell more. Outlines! I plead for my brothers and sisters.
Do you see O my brothers and sisters?
It is not chaos or death—it is form, union, plan—it is eternal life—it is Happiness.
So...the "that in me"...is the unknowable stillness that Whitman is referencing. You can't know it like a DNA model you read in a book. But you can become it. DNA is a reflection of That, so it all works out anyway.
Also, here's a Yogani lesson on healthy skepticism that you might like:
http://www.aypsite.org/182.html
Keep questioning! The answers will be revealed. Maybe not in a book, or mental concept, but in something simpler, more primal, albeit mysterious and beyond comprehension.
Godspeed. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2016 : 09:55:32 AM
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"The mind can go in a thousand directions,
But on this beautiful path,
I walk in peace.
With each step a gentle wind blows,
With each step a flower blooms."
Thich Nhat Hanh |
Edited by - sunyata on Oct 01 2016 09:57:54 AM |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2016 : 12:14:24 PM
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Bodhi, Sunyata  |
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FakeYogi
India
100 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2016 : 1:57:08 PM
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| Tamil Siddhas always vehemently state that if the body is gone everything is gone. A song by Sivavakkiyar says "Only when you have this boat called the body you can roam here and there. Only when you have the boat, you can make it stronger (implying, to cross the Ocean of existence). If the boat is broken (death) then in the limitless empty space, there is no goat (refers to an alive human), no shepherd (refers to the lifeforce/Siva driving a living person's body), there is indeed nobody at all". |
Edited by - FakeYogi on Oct 05 2016 2:03:04 PM |
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amuhai
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2016 : 12:35:34 AM
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You call walt whitman and michael newton fakes, yet you fully believe the tamil siddhas, who are just as human.
What direct experience do you have that proves newton wrong on the one hand? and sivavakkiyar right on the other hand?
Your interpretation of sivavakkiyar's phrase smells of rank materialism. Looked another way, the phrase can mean..."when your consciousness is confined to a "separate body", you travel from one point in space to another. When you melt with the ocean of consciousness and lose your sense of a separate body, there is no travelling from here to there because you are everywhere."
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Fear of death during Nauli and Kumbhakas
