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Nirguna
Australia
57 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 13 2015 : 03:29:38 AM
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Hi everyone. I am with AYP for year and half now. I love it!!!
I'm not happy to miss my twice daily routine involving all practices listed in main lessons.
Well, this is my first week with Samyama, I'm in Kechari stage 1, struggling fast tracing spine in Spinal Bastrika, and not doing targeted one yet.....but all smooth so far, selfpacing as instructed......
I have been experiencing kundalini twitching every time I focus, in and out of practice times. I take it as good indicator of good attention, and purification process, kind of riding on her...
One thing that surprise me is that Giants like Krishnamurti and Mooji, whom I love and respect, dismiss kundalini altogether.....
Any comments ???
Thank you |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2015 : 07:39:28 AM
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Welcome to the forum.
Maybe they have undergone it in their past life or it could be that it has not come to their perception yet. Each person's path is unique to him or her and no definite conclusions can be arrived at. |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2015 : 07:43:40 AM
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Hello Nirguna, Who says they are giants in the first place and the second is who cares as in why would anyone care what they think anyway?
On the surface both seem like crappy comments but look a little deeper.
They are, you are.
Now to speculate: Those who experience Kundalini say it is real and important, those who do not say it is not.
Who can truly say, except by there own perception? There are people here who do not feel anything and dismiss out of hand things as scenery without having first arrived at the point of rising ecstatic conductivity, so if you go by these posts you will dismiss a very real thing.
My personal advice pay close attention to what Yogani has put out there if you join the AYP Plus site you will have access to all the books and Audio recordings in sequence and you will get many answers swiftly.
AYP Plus is pretty awesome: for example if you are going through a lesson having to do with spinal breathing for example it will link you directly to audio interviews with Yogani and radio personalities as well as the exact section in the conversation and to make it even better it also does this with the Many books Yogani has written over the years, taking you exactly to the salient relevant section in the material.
Personally it is good to receive answers on the forum but better to really study the spiritual practices as Yogani has laid them out.
Best to you in your continued unfoldment seems like you are making good progress. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2015 : 12:34:16 PM
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Hi Nirguna,
I have watched a few videos from Mooji some years ago and did not feel any attraction, 1-2 months ago it was the complete opposite. And he does not dismiss kundalini or any other thing, just says they are more complex systems for the awakening process and he likes a more direct approach. So he accepts their existence and effectivity, but as all truth lovers want to keep your attention on the unchanging eternal.
To my experience most of the "only direct" lovers like Moojo and Papaji had no difficulties with energetic phenomena and did not require any balance in daily life, as in some way it played out well for them or they could really trust into it fully and did not care about any consequences. Kundalini is -what always is-in-movement. When she stops moving what is always will become more visible than if she is in intense movement. There are two ways you can approach the unchanging, either by stopping movement or by becoming so fast, that again it will be still. If movement speeds up infinitely, it lights up and dissolves into what is alway. If you get calmer and slower and stop, you will also see and melt into it more easily. But the moment your perception is clear enough and you can clearly see, that what is always is always independent of kundalini or no kundalini and experience it as the only best without any sideffects, naturally you will direct others in the same way.
At least for me the only reason for not melting in truth completely was the intense stoppage of all movement including breath, mind, digestion and everything related to life, .. but bliss to death, continuously, for ever and ever. If the body could have handled it better, this would be my nr.1 sharing aswell. As the body did not, but the balanced yogic approach does, the sharing is accordingly. Depending on the karmic past, 10 realized guys will give you 10 different advice. The only correct advice could be that one, which is most perfekt for your karmic mix. And this you will find out by trying both variants and seeing the results. What works will continue (=
Peace friend and happy practice :) |
Edited by - Holy on Jul 13 2015 12:40:18 PM |
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Nyardream
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2015 : 4:20:31 PM
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| The only reason Krishnamurti "dismissed" kundalini in his talks is because he didn't want people to fixate on the idea. He used the same approach with everything.. reincarnation, meditation, and even yoga.. he dismissed it all and told people to find out for themselves rather than subscribe to any kind of method. It's pretty obvious that Krishnamurti went through a kundalini awakening.. he wrote about it very specifically in his journal. Check out Krishnamurti's Notebook. |
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maverick angel
France
42 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2015 : 05:18:41 AM
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| Mooji clearly does not know anything about kundalini which is evident from that video where he gives that kundalini awakening girl such bad advice. The fact is, that the reality of kundalini as a mediator between the individual and self realisation, is inconvenient to these gurus who are selling the notion that you really don't need to do anything but listen to them! |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2015 : 08:57:29 AM
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I have not watched any videos of the two, nor am I aware of their thoughts on kundalini beyond what is posted here.
With that being said. I can see why they don't put a lot of emphasis on kundalini.
It is misunderstood and because of that it creates separation and fear.
Yes I know kundalini is a snake coiled at the base of our spine ready to rise up. It rarely works that way to be honest.
Kundalini is universal consciousness according to Ramana and I would have to agree.
The more one accepts that the energy is them. That the issues caused by kundalini is not the problem of the energy which is them. It is caused by hitting on the attachments that the person is holding on to. Kundalini is letting someone know what they need to work on.
If people removed the word kundalini and replaced it with Self or Universal Consciousness.. I wonder if the issues would become less and the progress more..
All the best,
Tom |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2015 : 11:57:10 AM
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| Agree with you Tom |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2015 : 10:36:12 PM
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Hi Nirguna,
My take: Personally, I've had a lot of experience with ecstatic bliss, and during my first awakening experience a massive movement of energy (could call this kundalini) in my head after which there was a permanent shift of the sense of identity from thought to awareness. Also, I feel that it was pranayama (activating kundalini movement) combined with inner silence that permanently cured me of depression. It rewired my energy somehow. Kundalini definitely played a role in my path, and I'm glad I lucked onto spinal breathing pranayama.
But beyond that, not a great deal of fireworks related to kundalini experience. I stay away from excessive ecstasy, or intensely intoxicating states, because they can be addictive and are really just a sidetrack from the main path.
The crux of path, as Yogani often says, is what's happening in day to day life.
Are we feeling freer from suffering, feeling more love for others, growing more compassionate, less self-centered, more sensitive and aware, more truthful, developing in strength and character, shedding addictions... do we have a stable grounding in our true nature? Are we living, day to day, from an increasing sense of inner freedom?
Going down the road of a spiritual path which is very focused on kundalini, energy fireworks, "special experiences" and so forth could quite easily lead people astray. Kundalini needs to be very well integrated into a background of inner silence, and desire for truth.
Mooji and Krishnamurti are very focused just on truth and inquiry. In one sense, you could say they are right to, this is really the heart of what will wake you up out of identification and the sense of separation. But then again, practices prepare you for inquiry to fall upon fertile soil. I wasn't ready for any of that stuff until I'd had years of practice behind me. Listening to those kind of messages used to just piss off and create inner conflict, so I stopped, until I was ready.
You're going to encounter all sorts of messages that seemingly conflict with each other on the spiritual path. Even the same teacher may sometimes say two things, to two people, which appear to conflict with each other!
However, there's a lesson to be found in all apparently conflicting statements.
- One teacher says: Ignore kundalini, it's not relevant to the awakening process
- Another teacher says: Kundalini rising is an essential part of the awakening process
The mind the wants to take a position. One of these has to be wrong. It wants to know who to believe, who is right. Just bear witness to the mind wanting to find the right position. Be very sensitive and aware. Notice that it's not necessary to take a position. That's just some nonsense that the mind is trying to do.
Then look deeply within and inquire, what is the right path for me to follow? Will it be helpful to use some kundalini practice? Or do I feel more guided to focus on inquiry?
When the mind is looking for an external authority to believe in, it's just seeking the next thought to believe in and be hypnotized by. Or which thought not to agree with, because it clashes with its existing belief system (/hypnosis).
Don't buy into it. Inquire within. Your inner guru knows the right course for you, there's no outer guru in existence who is a more final authority. No need to believe anything, or let any message you hear from some guru character conflict with what the truth for you is, in this moment. Remain open. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Nov 11 2015 10:42:35 PM |
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MrCuddly
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 5:34:12 PM
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The real question doesn't seem to be whether or not Kundalini exists. To deny it's existence would deny the entire theory and practice of Yoga. The question is, is the raising of Kundalini the only route to enlightenment? And we already know there are as many paths as people - so the obvious answer is no.
Another valid question is, is narrowing our focus to Kundalini enough to help us reach enlightenment? Given just the eight limbs of yoga the answer is clearly also no. Yogani's POV is that starting with purification of our physiology and developing inner stillness is a very efficient starting point which allows other factors to fall in place. But to my reading he emphasizes developing inner stillness rather than the free flow of Kundalini as this point of departure.
He admits that this approach is reversed from the more standard approach of cultivating self discipline, yamas and niyamas, etc to start. And for these times particularly in the west, I strongly agree with him FWIW. |
Edited by - MrCuddly on Nov 22 2015 6:16:35 PM |
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jean
Germany
107 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2016 : 04:44:15 AM
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David Spero describes it very well.
There is a difference between knowing/realizing you're the Self and feeling it.
https://youtu.be/4_poto8yQU4 |
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arjunatheyogasamurai
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 5:16:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyardream
The only reason Krishnamurti "dismissed" kundalini in his talks is because he didn't want people to fixate on the idea. He used the same approach with everything.. reincarnation, meditation, and even yoga.. he dismissed it all and told people to find out for themselves rather than subscribe to any kind of method. It's pretty obvious that Krishnamurti went through a kundalini awakening.. he wrote about it very specifically in his journal. Check out Krishnamurti's Notebook.
This is very reasonable and I agree; fixation on the idea of kundalini in and of itself is not helpful as it is only an aspect of yoga.
quote:
Originally posted by mr_andersen
The crux of path, as Yogani often says, is what's happening in day to day life.
Are we feeling freer from suffering, feeling more love for others, growing more compassionate, less self-centered, more sensitive and aware, more truthful, developing in strength and character, shedding addictions... do we have a stable grounding in our true nature? Are we living, day to day, from an increasing sense of inner freedom?
Going down the road of a spiritual path which is very focused on kundalini, energy fireworks, "special experiences" and so forth could quite easily lead people astray. Kundalini needs to be very well integrated into a background of inner silence, and desire for truth.
Mooji and Krishnamurti are very focused just on truth and inquiry. In one sense, you could say they are right to, this is really the heart of what will wake you up out of identification and the sense of separation. But then again, practices prepare you for inquiry to fall upon fertile soil. I wasn't ready for any of that stuff until I'd had years of practice behind me. Listening to those kind of messages used to just piss off and create inner conflict, so I stopped, until I was ready.
You're going to encounter all sorts of messages that seemingly conflict with each other on the spiritual path. Even the same teacher may sometimes say two things, to two people, which appear to conflict with each other!
However, there's a lesson to be found in all apparently conflicting statements.
One teacher says: Ignore kundalini, it's not relevant to the awakening process
Another teacher says: Kundalini rising is an essential part of the awakening process
The mind the wants to take a position. One of these has to be wrong. It wants to know who to believe, who is right. Just bear witness to the mind wanting to find the right position. Be very sensitive and aware. Notice that it's not necessary to take a position. That's just some nonsense that the mind is trying to do.
Then look deeply within and inquire, what is the right path for me to follow? Will it be helpful to use some kundalini practice? Or do I feel more guided to focus on inquiry?
When the mind is looking for an external authority to believe in, it's just seeking the next thought to believe in and be hypnotized by. Or which thought not to agree with, because it clashes with its existing belief system (/hypnosis).
Don't buy into it. Inquire within. Your inner guru knows the right course for you, there's no outer guru in existence who is a more final authority. No need to believe anything, or let any message you hear from some guru character conflict with what the truth for you is, in this moment. Remain open.
Well said. |
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Why Krishnamurti and Mooji dismiss kundalini???
