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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - May 05 2015 : 11:22:06 AM
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This is a thesis. It is unproven as yet and so is an experiment in progress.
I have been meditating for several years at this point. I would say there are many benefits, but actually there are none in the manner that we judge benefits in general. Instead I have discovered that single pointed focus provides a point outside space and time to begin training the mind. It is somewhat like that of a set of weights and the student of physical training. The weights confer no benefits in themselves, neither does the student confer benefits on the weights. Even the exercise is of no immediate use to the student who is giving up some other action in order to undertake training.
There are, however, two requirements in order for the student to begin training. The first is desire, the second is the practical action of being able to handle the weights. If either is missing then the task is impossible.
During training the student learns what works best to increase strength and avoid injury-gradually improving his or her physical aspect. Yet, what is the point of it ? The body is stronger certainly, but for what purpose ? Is it in order that the body can work more productively, lasts longer, can withstand trauma, gives an inner feeling of strength ? The answer we cannot know. Often we cannot know why one might begin such a training or what purpose that training might serve.
So, why does anyone meditate ? Here the purpose compared to weight training is even less obvious.
Humans are unique on this planet, there is nothing similar to us. We are separated by our capacity to reason. In order to reason we have divided the animal characteristic of instinct. We are blessed with a distillation of instinct into two distinct areas. One is emotion and the other the logical mind.
In some of us we see that the logical mind is at work attempting to analyse the practice of meditation, in others, it is emotion that is used to feel for changes. One will take precedence over the other.
The mind is something of a black hole in aspect. It might better be visualised as a dark cube. Five sides of the cube are opaque externally, but transparent internally. These can represent the senses. The sixth side of the cube is transparent internally and externally. It is the sixth sense, but it is not so much a sense as a connection with emotion. The mind is translating incoming senses and relating them to an inner reasoning and to emotion. This is a quantum connection.
When the quantum connection isn't working so well logic does not govern the emotions, yet neither can the emotions correctly function as the creative drivers of the mind. The emotions provide the desire for everything. If the connection is poor then logic does not mature in the mind and the mind becomes a slave to emotion. Logic does not develop on its own, it needs to be forced to grow, but if emotion is out of control it remains immature and simply bombarded by fears, doubts and all the rest of the things that can make people suffer.
Enlightenment then, is not some supernatural process. It is the marriage of emotion and mature logic in unity. It is as if the mind is a lamp housing and emotion is the light. Until they are brought together into full Union they are less than what they can be. Once in union then creativity flows. Emotion encourages logic to grow and vica verca. They are no longer vying for control but working in harmony. This is why we can have action without action. The emotion no longer causes suffering because it can leave it to logic to provide an instantaneous answer to any question whilst it provides the propulsion to initiate the action.
Logic then, cannot grow without emotive desire and emotion cannot be tamed without mature logic. Desire must come first, it must be encouraged not to wander but to become focused. Once it is harnessed it comes then engine for internal growth. This I think is what the divine feminine energy is. It is the motive force of creativity and action. The male energy is reasoning. It has no energy of itself and requires a feed from emotion and the senses. This is why it is regarded as lazy and why the female energy is like fire. One is the lamp and the other the flame.
I believe this is what is indicated in religious texts. It is the trinity. Flesh, reasoning, emotion of which each is a part of the other. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Enlightenment is simply the perfect union, like a good marriage in which both spouses and children flourish and grow. It seems to me that this must be our natural state of maturity and for some strange reason we have lost our way and become stunted. We reach a point at which most of us stop development, or at least it is arrested until something activates us to push onwards.
I think enlightenment is a natural state that we should have been consciously and proactively reaching toward. It maybe that modern society, machinery, entertainment, state education, food, drugs etc have blunted our natural development. Parents of each new generation are not equipped to teach their children the right lessons because they have become ignorant of the necessity to do so.
Unfortunately we are on a slide. Reason will be replaced by analysis which leads to the intellectualism of the predator. Uncontrolled emotion will create fear. Between both there is the obvious seeds of every major conflict in the last few hundred years. Without unity there will be war.
Meditation is then a prerequisite to the attainment of a balanced mind in which reason and emotion are married. It is the end of suffering and the establishment of peace within and without. It will be the time when man attains the infinite, because that's what he always has been. We have literally hidden our lights under a bushel.
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2015 : 3:40:45 PM
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| It is as good a thesis as any, and has many AYP parallels. Thanks for sharing! |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2015 : 07:25:05 AM
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Thanks Dogboy. There are many parallels as you say and these mirror many religions and the fringes of theoretical physics.
I think it also makes sense in regard to the industrial revolution which needed skilled, obedient, workers and easily persuaded buyers. To achieve that result there was a requirement to prevent maturation of intellect and utilise the emotional aspect as a method of easy marketing and political control.
We have had times where there was a push forward towards real education and practical self development-particular amongst small groups of the privileged. Today we have gone off on a new age self development which is simply an appeal to emotion. It is in fact mysticism, or less kindly superstition. It isn't surprising as it is emotion that is the unfettered driving force behind all action. The witness is the developed logical mind with instantaneous reasoning which does not rely on emotional prompting, but requires the energy of emotion to energise the reasoning process and develop the most logical action.
It also makes a lot of sense when we look at the greatest of the guru. They are of the world but not in it. If an unelightened persons world is governed by emotion and predatory intellect then a guru understands that this person is undeveloped. The person is not ripe and can have limited clarity at best. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2015 : 08:48:32 AM
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Hi Karl
Your thesis also mirrors a psychological theory that is sometimes used to explain emotional disorders - depression, anxiety/panic attacks etc.
It goes like this: Humans have evolved powerful cognitive abilities (not out of the blue, the great apes have gone down that road too, but not as far as us). Apart from the obviously positive adaptive effects, there is also an undesirable effect. It occurs at the interface between cognition and emotions (which you also mention in your thesis). Our ancient brain, the seat of emotions, does not distinguish between reality and representations of reality generated by the mind. Therefore a hypothetical danger will give rise to the same emotional response as a real danger. Moreover, this creates a vicious circle - the stress that ensues triggers typical problem solving responses, which further agitate the mind and on it goes.
To illustrate: A flock of gazelles will run, driven by fear, when a cheetah chases them. When the cheetah has caught a gazelles, pretty quickly the other ones settle down to graze (no more fear). Compare that to human responses to a calamity. Not only will we ask “how do we stop this happening again?” (which is of course a useful thing to do), but we can also ruminate endlessly about the danger and take a long time to get over the trauma.
Luckily, there appears to be a solution - developing the witness part of the brain enables us to distinguish between reality and representations of reality that our mind creates. This breaks down the vicious circle and the result is a happier, mentally healthier human being. If you think about it, it should really become part of every child's upbringing. Maybe one day... |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on May 06 2015 08:50:05 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2015 : 10:04:45 AM
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Thanks blue raincoat.
The witness I believe is just immature, untrained reason. Even in an undeveloped state it is still desirable to unify the emotions under the rational mind. We can do that through meditation, although it's far from certain that everybody can benefit equally. I believe this is the reason why overloading and it's symptoms have become a feature in the lives of some meditators. Essentially they don't have sufficiently developed reasoning skills to cope with the emotional flow. Instead of it helping, there is a feedback effect which multiplies the anxiety. It is somewhat like a car with no brakes.
I have thought along these lines for some time, that less rational meditators need some additional work to stabilise that neglected aspect first, otherwise they quickly overload and burn out. I think the witness won't develop in those with undeveloped capacity, instead it might well result in neurosis-somewhat similar to those that try cannabis and end up under psychiatric care. These people are more or less addictive types who will overdose on meditation in a similar manner to other addictions with similar results. If they were addiced to other forms of self abuse, then meditation will simply provide an alternative addiction.
Perhaps this is why here are eight limbs of yoga. Those that cannot directly handle meditation safely are better directed towards more physical pursuits such as Asanas. The outer material body has an influence on the inner and exercise, balance, concentration is a very practical therapy for the mind and body.
I wonder if Yogani stumbled across the notion 'AYP as very powerful' because of its effects on those with less stability. He would describe it as 'less grounded' and hence the requirement to 'self pace and ground'. This is OK for those who have the capacity to handle the changes-just as a social drinker develops common sense around alcohol intake, where as those with a less developed sense of responsibility tend to abuse it.
I'm now at the point of consciously developing the flabby muscle of logic by proper study of the Trivium. I was relatively lucky in that AYP has resulted in a degree of unity and the inner guru has been effective in its guidance without causing me harm. I can see now why I had times of weird instability in which I seemed to operate in two different worlds at once. This was the culmination of the growth towards unity in which reason and emotion were fighting for control of the mind. In my case logic won out and emotion nestled smoothly into its proper relationship but then I saw that it was precarious because the mental strength of logical reasoning wasn't sufficiently developed to maintain the union. The emotive part has to very sure of the reasoning part. It's really a trust like a good marriage in which each partner gains from the other as the relationships grows. The logic becomes stronger, the emotion can become more creative. This is the expansion of consciousness. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2015 : 8:32:00 PM
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Hi Karl,
I would say that enlightenment is the union between clarity and depth. Now I am going to go a little outside of yoga but please hear me out.
You ever wonder why everyone is not a Ramana? I mean I like Rupert Spira but nobody is saying he is of the same depth as a Neem Karoli Baba or a Ramana right?
Why?
Because there are two aspects to enlightenment. The first and most known is clarity aka oneness. It is silence, emptiness, the natural state, rigpa, awareness whatever name you wish to give it and there are many within each tradition.
The other aspect is depth. It is the progression of opening all of the chakras, going light, realizing the bliss body and the merging of the male/void and female/form... Yab Yum.
Many traditions talk about it.
In Buddhism, it is realizing the light body (or rainbow body - See also completion stage practices). In Taoism, it is becoming an immortal (or developing the immortal fetus - light body). In Mystical Christianity, it the revelation of the bridal chamber. Now each of these examples are not the end state. Just examples of the continued spiritual progression of depth.
Now some traditions never reach the level of light. Theravada Buddhism goal is to end in cessation and oneness is the goal, an Arhat. Some would say that the goal of yoga or some traditions within yoga is the same. Open all of the chakras, awaken kundalini to achieve oneness and stop there.
So enlightenment I would say depends on your goal but you can see where those of greater depth would say that enlightenment is more than just oneness where others would say that's exactly what it is. 
A little different than your point of view I know.
Take care,
Tom |
Edited by - jonesboy on May 06 2015 8:40:06 PM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2015 : 12:20:22 AM
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| i think its when youre perceiving all of reality without using your physical senses |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2015 : 01:59:14 AM
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Karl, you gots to jump on da AYP Plus bandwagon. It's da bomb. We talkin' deeper than deep. You dig? 
And oh, yes, I like your thesis. If I was a postdoctorate, emeritus professor, I would put all kinds of stamps and commendations on dem pretty words.  |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2015 : 11:55:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
If I was a postdoctorate, emeritus professor, I would put all kinds of stamps and commendations on dem pretty words.
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2015 : 2:48:31 PM
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 07:08:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by adishivayogi
i think its when youre perceiving all of reality without using your physical senses
There is no perception without sensory input. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 07:42:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Karl, you gots to jump on da AYP Plus bandwagon. It's da bomb. We talkin' deeper than deep. You dig?
And oh, yes, I like your thesis. If I was a postdoctorate, emeritus professor, I would put all kinds of stamps and commendations on dem pretty words.
Thank you Body, my inner Guru tells me not to go in the direction
AYP basics have taken me this far and the integration and learning continue. I can see very clearly where I'm going now. It's no longer a strange, emotionally led, mystic journey, fired only by Bhakti and remote intellect.
The emotion and intellect were always present, but it was instinct that steered things. It was AYP that caused things to move in the right direction. It's like being out on an ocean with no sign of land. The inner world is composed of fears, hopes, possibilities, imaginings of all and every sort. If you can't get some sort compass rigged up you just go around in circles. It takes a degree of what I can only describe as dogged faith to follow a emotional compass, but once land is seen things can go quicker. No faith is needed then and the emotional compass can give way to a logical one. The emotion loves that, it doesn't need to guess and worry anymore, it can be its total creative self without any further concerns. It doesn't need to be the decision maker and can settle.
down.
That's how it goes now. The bride has found its husband and the couple now take their first faltering steps together. They complete each other and will grow from each other's strengths. It' all fits together, just like a physical marriage it's a relationship which must be continually worked at in order to hold it together and flourish.
It's something that cannot be known until it is known. I couldn't have predicted it, or known it . My emotional desire was simply a salmon swimming like hell towards an ancient spawning ground and at any time it could have given in before it reached it.
Kundalini has occurred, but not in a sky full of fireworks, but by a beautiful, gradual movement that could hardly be noticed. It's the awakening and of that I'm 100% certain. I just hadn't realised what it was that was awakening, because until then it was almost certainly unconscious of its existence. No wonder it's called the third eye.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 11:06:51 AM
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As you wish. The inner guru is key. Bravo for following that.
To paraphrase the great Charlie Sheen: Either way, we win here, we win there. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 12:28:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
As you wish. The inner guru is key. Bravo for following that.
To paraphrase the great Charlie Sheen: Either way, we win here, we win there.
very true. Many paths. At last, the cupboard that was once filled with terrifyingly array of difficult puzzles, stands empty. There are none left, not a trace. Just the faint aroma of old oak and wood glue. I trace out the words 'I was here' in the layer of dust covering the base. A gentle breeze stirs up the particles I cannot tell it's source. As I watch, the words get fainter and then fainter still, until finally, they vanish. Now the structure of the cupboard itself begins to lose solidity, a gradual and seamless metamorphis until it becomes a shimmering transparent form like that of an abandoned chrysalis, or old silk curtains, which even the weakest starlight can penetrate. Then it's gone.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 2:08:43 PM
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Niiiiiice. Thank you.  |
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What enlightenment might be.
