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bipinjoshi
India
30 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 11:52:33 PM
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Yesterday I happened to read an interview of B.K.S. Iyengar in Reader's Digest. He is a great example of what will power can do to one's life. Some of the points mentioned in the interview are as follows:
- He is 88 and still practices Yoga for four hours. Three hours asanas and one hour pranayama
- He had scooter accident and doctors told him that he will never be able to do Yoga again. But with his strong will power he proved them wrong.
- He had two heart attacks till date but never stopped doing Yoga
- At a point in time doing heavy backbends caused a lot of trouble to him. He them stopped doing backbends for an year and then started again.
- During his childhood he was a T.B. patient and was very weak
- When he tried Yoga for the first time even touching hands to the toes was painful for him
- He used to demonstrate Yoga postures to college students and get 4-8 annas (25-50 paise)
- He mastered the art and science of Pranayama by practicing 10 years.
- His wife played a major role in his perfect ness and accuracy. She used to watch him doing the postures and point out even minor mistakes.
- He is writing his 21st book on the subject these days
- He ended the interview saying "I am still a Yoga student". A sign that he is a true master.
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Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 02 2007 01:00:34 AM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 03:36:17 AM
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Three hours asanas and one hour pranayama, but no meditation?
That's like polishing your car all your life and then never taking it for a drive. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 1:12:02 PM
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Yes it might be considered so.Don't think because one is from India he has all the answers.Although he is great at Hatah yoga, unfortunately there are greater results from other methods.
L&L
Dave |
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bipinjoshi
India
30 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2006 : 11:56:13 PM
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| I just posted what was printed in the interview. Let's not try to show that someone is inferior and others are superior. Let's pick up the moral of the interview. We should look into our own lives and check if we have that kind of dedication and will power that he shown. Also, nobody is trying to say that just because he is from India he is great. I don't know why somebody should feel that way. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 12:40:54 AM
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People are always picking out different angles on things here; I suppose that's forum life. It's good when you get used to it, but it can be uncomfortable experience if you are hoping for one motion to go forward alone on a subject.
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bipinjoshi
India
30 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 01:48:31 AM
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I am not uncomfortable at all. I have seen many such forums. The way others can express their thoughts I have right to express mine. That is what I did. 
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Edited by - bipinjoshi on Sep 22 2006 04:30:53 AM |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 03:19:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Yes it might be considered so.Don't think because one is from India he has all the answers.Although he is great at Hatah yoga, unfortunately there are greater results from other methods.
L&L
Dave
He...he...he. Do you know that most of the AYP practices are directly taken from Hatha Yoga and Kundalini Yoga? Many people have wrong impression like yours that Hatha Yoga means just postures. I suggest you study Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Goraksha Samhita, Gheranda Samhita and then you will realize what it is. Existance of other so called better paths doesn't make Hatha Yoga bad in any way.
>Don't think because one is from India he has all the answers.
Who said so? Is it there in the original post or the interview? I guess you have some bias against Indians better clear it out.
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 03:22:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Three hours asanas and one hour pranayama, but no meditation?
That's like polishing your car all your life and then never taking it for a drive.
Sorry. You are wrong. It is like learning to drive your car first and then taking it for a drive.
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 05:08:58 AM
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| But meditation is the driving. |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 06:31:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
But meditation is the driving.
I know. My point is that just like meditation other things such as postures, pranayama are equally important. It is reality that many people simply pretend to be "meditating" where as in reality they are just "trying" to meditate . Many people don't understand that Meditation is very well a part of Hatha Yoga. It prepares you step by step rather than directly jumping to meditation. That's why I said study Hatha Yoga first and only then you get authority to say if it is good/bad/right/wrong etc.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 10:11:05 AM
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There's definitely a gruff, adversarial aspect to this discussion, which seems unnecessary and can be relaxed out of.
Bipi starts with wanting to show that Iyengar has inspiring dedication -- a fine angle to express. Chiron wonders why on earth there was all that hatha yoga and very little meditation -- a fine angle to express.
At some point, some defensive and adversarial vibes kicked in. What did it? Was Chiron being personally derogatory to Hatha Yoga? Or Riptiz to Indians? Had it actually become about inferiority and superiority already?
Dave (Riptiz) by the way is not putting Indians down but rather speaking (somewhat out of context) against the mythologization of Indians in the Yoga world, which is something he has seen and is familiar with.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 22 2006 10:22:51 AM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 10:21:50 AM
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Nice observation David 
I was hesitating to jump in on this discussion,
and my thoughts were going along your line.
So, is there anybody offended (and to what degree) ?
Love and Light
Wolfgang |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 10:51:51 AM
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Dear All,
It was not my intention to offend anyone and I apologise if I have.On the contrary my guru is Indian and my satguru is also. In fact as David can testify I have been a vehement defender of both my satguru and other gurus who are genuinely there to take ones from darkness to light.My comments were simply intended to point out that no single person has all the answers and just as I found when studying martial arts, the Japanese are not strictly the best at what they teach either.I could tell you a similar story about my guru who as a yogini practising Kundalini Maha Yoga has had to be just as dedicated to continue even when suffering verbal and physical abuse in her life, and I've seen the scars!
Quote
" Yes it might be considered so.Don't think because one is from India he has all the answers.Although he is great at Hatha yoga, unfortunately there are greater results from other methods."
I was simply pointing out that other systems give more effective ways to realisation , not that he is not a great yogi.There is no doubt of his abilities and of his dedication.
BTW I have a great affection for the Indian people and a great respect and I loved my time in India and hope to go back.Race, religion or creed is no basis for making a judgement, something which I try not to do with anyone.
L&L
Dave
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 6:30:42 PM
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There is a misconception in the world today about Yoga, even throughout India, in that most people associate Yoga with asanas only. This is what irritates me and this is why I'm participating in this thread. God forgive me if any of my words are insulting, I only wish to be truthful.
The main practice of Yoga is meditation. Asanas and pranayama are additional practices which enhance the effectiveness and duration of meditation.
I have a book of BKS Iyengar with great illustations and explanations. Yet the book only covers asanas and pranayama. Same as the summary of the interview in the opening post of this thread. If there is no meditation, what is the point of doing asanas and pranayama? Why doesn't Iyengar stress the importance of meditation and himself doesn't spend any time meditating?
This is why I cannot regard Iyengar as a true master, because he contributes to the above-mentioned misconception about Yoga.
quote:
Originally posted by mysticyogi
It is reality that many people simply pretend to be "meditating" where as in reality they are just "trying" to meditate .
You learn to meditate by trying to meditate. Just like you can't learn to drive a car by reading theory, you must get behind the wheel many times before you master it.
Maybe these quotes will describe better what I feel:
quote:
Swami Satyananda Saraswati, founder of Bihar School of Yoga, Bihar, India, describes the modern situation of Yoga quite well in the Introduction of the Hatha Yoga Pradipika commentary by Swami Muktibodhananda Saraswati, where he writes:
"In ancient times hatha Yoga was practiced for many years as a preparation for higher states of consciousness. Now however, the real purpose of this great science is being altogether forgotten . The hatha Yoga practices which were designed by the rishis and sages of old, for the evolution of mankind, are now being understood and utilized in a very limited sense. Often we hear people say, 'Oh, I don't practice meditation, I only practice physical Yoga, hatha Yoga.' Now the time has come to correct this view point. Hatha Yoga is a very important science for man today....
"The main objective of hatha Yoga is to create an absolute balance of the interacting activities and processes of the physical body, mind and energy. When this balance is created, the impulses generated give a call of awakening to the central force (sushumna nadi) which is responsible for the evolution of human consciousness. If hatha Yoga is not used for this purpose, its true objective is lost ."
http://swamij.com/ancientyoga.htm
I cannot see balance in three hours of asanas and one hour of pranayama and no meditation.
quote:
Paramahansa Yogananda, the well-known author of Autobiography of a Yogi, responds to the question "What is Yoga?" in the text The Essence of Self-Realization:
"Yoga means union. Etymologically, it is connected to the English word, yoke. Yoga means union with God, or, union of the little, ego-self with the divine Self, the infinite Spirit. Most people in the West, and also many in India, confuse yoga with Hatha Yoga, the system of bodily postures.
But yoga is primarily a spiritual discipline . I don't mean to belittle the yoga postures. Hatha Yoga is a wonderful system. The body, moreover, is a part of our human nature, and must be kept fit lest it obstruct our spiritual efforts. Devotees, however, who are bent on finding God give less importance to the yoga postures. Nor is it strictly necessary that they practice them. Hatha Yoga is the physical branch of Raja Yoga, the true science of yoga. Raja Yoga is a system of meditation techniques that help to harmonize human consciousness with the divine consciousness.
http://swamij.com/ancientyoga.htm |
Edited by - Chiron on Sep 22 2006 7:55:19 PM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 9:25:54 PM
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| Why practice Yoga for only 4 hours a day when you can practice it with your every breath, your every heartbeat and your every thought? Does God go on vacation during the other 20 hours of the day? |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 11:11:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Why practice Yoga for only 4 hours a day when you can practice it with your every breath, your every heartbeat and your every thought? Does God go on vacation during the other 20 hours of the day?
Chiron,
You are getting me wrong. I am NOT saying that meditation is unimportant. I am saying that other aspects such as asanas, pranayama are also important. You or anybody ignoring them doesn't make them unimportant. You are making assumptions about BKS based on a single interview. How do you know that BKS Iyengar doesn't live Yoga with every breath? Has he or the original post said so? BKS has simply told to the interviewer about his Asana and Pranayama duration. That's it. Have u met him personally? Have you read his books? If not then it is my friendly suggestion that read them if you can. Light on Life, Light on Yoga, Light on Pranayama, Light on Patahnali's Yoga Sutras, Tree of Yoga all these titles are worth reading. Nowhere he has said that meditation is unimportant. Now what he wants to stress in his books is his choice. Isn't it? You and me can not dictate him what to write in his books
I think this thread is going far away from the point. So let me not add fuel to this further.
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 01:48:06 AM
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| After reading this thread I feel that Mr iyengar seems to be very misunderstood. He absolutely DOES practice meditation in his own practice. It is my impression that he feels that meditation falls under the heading of religion and while he is a bramhin by birth and has always practiced the religious rituals of his tradition he does not teach meditation in his school. I don't really understand that opinion myself and remember asking ramanad Patel (one of iyengars most senior teachers in the USA) about meditation. His reply was that Iyengar certainly was in favor of meditation but that he felt that it was advanced practice and didn't want it taught at his institute. When I asked Ramanand for any help in finding a meditation teacher outside of the Iyengar system I am afraid that he was no help, just steering me away from some well known traditions since the practitioners did not seem very happy. I am not sure why this attitude exists in the iyengar system but I thought that I would add my 2 cents here to clear up some confusion. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 10:13:12 AM
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Hi All:
The new AYP book, "Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas - Awakening Ecstatic Kundalini," attempts to address these issues in full, while honoring all sides which have brought such wonderful contributions. It is not a matter of right or wrong. Only a matter of everyone having the opportunity to find balance across all the limbs of yoga. The necessary adjustments are not as radical as it might seem. But the results are. 
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 10:59:44 AM
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he feels that meditation falls under the heading of religion
It is a puzzle indeed. Do you think his not teaching meditation has some connection to the prohibitions of the caste system? If true, it wouldn't be at all a unique occurance.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 12:31:24 PM
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Dear David,
There is nothing in brahmin caste to prohibit meditation. My guru is a brahmin and she told me that meditation is only done by a few as it is regarded as for those on a higher spiritual path.She told me that Iyengar was reborn to return the knowledge of Hatha to the world , similar to a born again siddha returns to teach the path of K.Of course there will be many doubters of this concept but this is the belief.In this he has given a great service to the world.
L&L
Dave
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 1:05:22 PM
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Dave, what I meant was that as a Brahmin, he would be prohibited from teaching meditation to those who are not Brahmins.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 1:20:37 PM
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David ,
Maybe thats possible, but without asking my guru I couldn't comment.Strangely even in India the shakti is feared by many who are not conversant with her but only have superficial knowledge(yes I know we all only have that. LOL)Many who come to see guruji think of him as simply administrator of an ashram and do not realise he is a siddha. When I was there I spoke to a young priest from the Himalayas who thought he was a 'nice chap', when I mentioned shaktipat and shakti he spoke of how powerful she was but had no idea guruji gave shaktipat.Ah well they say ignorance is bliss.heheheh
L&L
Dave |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 2:02:07 PM
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Maybe thats possible, but without asking my guru I couldn't comment.
If your guru is teaching you, your guru hardly believes in this particular caste-restriction. But these caste mores prohibiting teaching non-brahmins were/are certainly there to various degrees.
I have no doubt that these particular mores are totally on the way out in the long-term picture. But it can be surprising who holds onto them.
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2006 : 6:01:36 PM
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| I have no doubt about it either David. Brahmins are made by God, not by birth. And we are all on a spiritual path, some are in front, some behind, but our origin and destination are one. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2006 : 1:02:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
After reading this thread I feel that Mr iyengar seems to be very misunderstood. He absolutely DOES practice meditation in his own practice. It is my impression that he feels that meditation falls under the heading of religion and while he is a bramhin by birth and has always practiced the religious rituals of his tradition he does not teach meditation in his school. I don't really understand that opinion myself and remember asking ramanad Patel (one of iyengars most senior teachers in the USA) about meditation. His reply was that Iyengar certainly was in favor of meditation but that he felt that it was advanced practice and didn't want it taught at his institute. When I asked Ramanand for any help in finding a meditation teacher outside of the Iyengar system I am afraid that he was no help, just steering me away from some well known traditions since the practitioners did not seem very happy. I am not sure why this attitude exists in the iyengar system but I thought that I would add my 2 cents here to clear up some confusion.
Thank you Victor. Yes, I have been thinking about what Chiron said, and what he says is partially true. In India, we always associate Yoga with asanas. Pranayam falls under yoga too.. but again as a part of asanas. However, meditation, japa, finding God.. its all about religion over there.
Every child is taught about God and mantras and rituals and meditation... We all know about that.. but that is not yoga.. it is religion. The problem with this concept is.. it is shrouded with superstitions and rituals... But that is what is taught there.. and I guess somewhere down the line we lost the idea that yoga includes meditation.. but that does not mean it is not practiced by people. It is just not propagated as yoga.. and people will not talk to you about their sadhana.. that is private.. a big secret.. no one will openly discus meditation with you.. or their experiences.. or what else they practice in their path of sadahana.. that is just not done (yet!!!)
This is one reason I appreciate Yogani.. for throwing out all the unnecessary superstitions and just pulling out the essentials.. Not everyone is lucky to have this guidance.. and not everyone will be ready to break their thought pattern and accept this guidance..
But like Victor said.. and although I do not know much about B.K.S.Iyengar.. this I can tell you.. all the Iyengar are Brahmins.. and are very religious which in India means very spiritual in their own way.. and though they may not do a structured practice of deep meditation like we know... they have their own way of getting meditation in.
OK I think I am going round in circles here.. I hope it makes some kind of sense though.... |
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mysticyogi
17 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2006 : 11:33:22 PM
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Shanti,
I am sorry I decided not to discuss on this thread further but your post made me change my decision. I am sorry to say that you are spreading wrong impression about India. I am not sure how many years you spent in India but I am here in India for more than 30 years, travelled throughout the country and doesn't agree with your views.
>In India, we always associate Yoga with asanas. Pranayam falls under >yoga too.. but again as a part of asanas. However, meditation, japa, >finding God.. its all about religion over there.
Sorry. It is wrong. You might have born and brought up in environment like this but applying it to entire India is wrong. For example, I have never been taught that Yoga means Asanas. For me Yoga always meant self-realization. One must note that unlike many other countries India consists of many religions. It is truth that Yoga is mainly adopted by Hindus but nobody says that other religions can not adopt it. Most of the times it is the other religions who keep themselves away from Yoga. For example many Muslims feel that Yoga is a Hindu tradition and hence they do not practice it. Now its their attitude that is to be blamed not anything else. We never tell antbody that you do not have right to practice Yoga. I myself teach Yoga (local level) to all kinds of people here. Nobody comes to learn Yoga as a ritual. In fact in the western countries Yoga is often equated with Postures. Pick up any Yoga studio from US and they will teach mainly you Yoga postures. I have not come across a SINGLE yoga institute in India that teaches Pranayama as Asanas. Which one you came across?
>Every child is taught about God and mantras and rituals and >meditation... We all know about that.. but that is not yoga.. it is >religion. The problem with this concept is.. it is shrouded with >superstitions and rituals... But that is what is taught there.. and I >guess somewhere down the line we lost the idea that yoga includes >meditation..
Again you are conveying wrong impression here. It is true that Hindus perform certain rituals but nobody equates Yoga with rituals. Neither meditation is treated as ritual. I don't know who told you this. In my openion you should be very careful while posting something like this. It can be your own experience but taging entire India with the same is wrong. It is true that in ancient India Yoga used be treated as a secret but this was to avoid misuse of the powerful techniques. Today why certain countries keep their neuclear plans secret? Because they feel that some other countries can misuse them. Same thing was observed by ancient Yogis. Another things Mantra Yoga is very well a part of Yoga. There are sages who attained liberation by the means of Mantra. So Mantra does comes under Yoga. When you chant IAM or YAM or OM it is Yoga that you are practicing. Isn't it? Also, in ancient India some Yogic practices were weaved into rituals so that they get practiced regularly and with respect. For example, while doing Sandhya Pranayama was incorporated in it. That doesn't mean Yoga is a ritual. If you didn't understood the essense of this integration then it's your problem. It would be unwise to blame India, Hindus or their rituals for this.
Swami Vivekananda, Saint Gyneshwara, Saint Tukaram, Saint Ramadas, Paramhansa Yogananda, Lahiri Mahashaya, Satyananda Saraswati, Niranjananand Saraswati, Sivananda Saraswati, Swami Vishnu Devenanda, Swami Ranadev and many other great people have taught Yoga (including meditation) to all kinds of people in India as well as abroad. They were all Indians. Many of them were in fact Brahmins.
Again let me repeate what I said earlier you should be very careful while posting something like this. It can be your own experience but taging entire India with the same is wrong. I respect your freedom to post on these forums but I am sorry to say that as an Indian and an honest Yoga practioner and teacher I found your post offending and I am sad that you are conveying misconceptions about your own motherland.
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Edited by - mysticyogi on Sep 27 2006 02:22:44 AM |
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Topic |
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Interview of B K S Iyengar
