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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 07 2015 : 11:45:23 PM
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I was talking to somebody who convinced me that the way of the yogi was superior to the buddhist path. The end result of the buddhist path for most people is emotional and experiential peace, while the end result of the yogi path is... much more expansive.
Well, I have been doing buddhist concentration meditation for the past couple months. I like it because it is purely pragmatic with no dogma involved.
The work and the goal is simple: focus on the breath, not because the breath is inherently magical; it is simply a concentration object that can be replaced by anything else. But focus on an object, and continue doing so until your concentration is honed, and then you will reach jhanas from absorption into that object.
There's no mysticism or anything in that, and that resonates with my atheistic worldview a lot.
I have not been on this site for a while, but my concentration and discipline has been a lot better since then, and I thought about returning to these practices. The thing is, though, I have a very hard time coming to terms with all these talks about chakras.
So is all this talk about chakras something that encompasses all of yogi practice? I want to get into the "yogi path", but none of it sounds pragmatic.. everything is about gods and chakras and energy
edit: And I just want to say I am not trying to put down these practices on these sites...
I would love to experience the benefits of the kundalini awakening, etc.
But I just have a very hard time buying into everything, especially when the buddhist meditation I'm doing is so clearly defined. On this site, there are like 10+ practices to learn how to do, and everything is a lot more complicated along with the religious stuff. |
Edited by - reality11 on Jan 08 2015 12:02:32 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 12:15:27 AM
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Dear Reality,
I very much doubt that there are paths which are superior to another. I think it all depends on the practitioner and the passion /devotion he brings to the path.
Yoga too is purely pragmatic with no dogma. Cause and effect. AYP places no emphasis on chakras. It is considered "under the car hood" and not to be worried about as we journey. But it's like saying you want to do a course in Human Biology but you don't want to know about the Heart, the Kidneys and blood circulatory system. Chakras exist. Energy flows. You vibrate. The whole Universe is energy and vibration. I will not mention God 
But we can talk and debate 'til we are blue in the face. The best thing to do is to dig in. Stay open minded and dig in. Then you can know for yourself what is real (or not). The AYP methods works whether you are a Believer or Atheist.
Good luck 
Sey
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Edited by - SeySorciere on Jan 08 2015 12:17:59 AM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 12:53:43 AM
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| you will begin to feel chakras and taste them through spinal breathing. through yoga you will see life is full of mystical dimensions that right now can only be seen in your imagination. knowing is always better than believing. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 07:33:15 AM
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Hello reality11
I'm not at all sure if "the end result of the yogi path" is any different from then end result of the Buddhist path.
For me personally, yoga has more appeal because there seem to be more tools in the toolbox - there is meditation, which is of course the most important, but there are also breathing techniques and various other methods to help practitioners along the way if they feel they need that help. I also enjoy the poses and the relaxation.
Like you, I'm not at all interested in the gods or Indian mythology. They are just metaphors.
There is no good reason or need to talk about energy until you start to feel it. When that happens, 'energy' does become a useful concept, but in the meantime the procedural aspect of the practices is all you need to focus on - in AYP, as in Buddhism.
Go with what your heart tells you. If Buddhism feels right for you right now, there is no reason to abandon it. You can of course always reconsider later. The beginning of AYP is also meditation, so you are surely not wasting your time, even looking at it from an AYP perspective. By the way, how long have you been meditating?
Best wishes |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jan 08 2015 07:44:55 AM |
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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 6:22:02 PM
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Well, the thing is..
On one hand, I really enjoy the fact that my current meditation essentially only has one very simple technique that I need to master in order to progress. I do not like that ayp has many techniques because this means I will need to spend a lot more time just to become accustomed to them, let alone mastering them.
On the other hand, perhaps the fact that there's so many more techniques might mean the practice is more fine-tuned and might lead to faster progress.
So there's not really a clear cut answer, imo, on which path to take..
Right now, the idea of mixing the two techniques appeals to me. I'm thinking about keeping my breathe meditation, and adding in spinal breathing. Does this sound okay to you guys? I don't want to do the DM because I don't believe that the object of meditation makes a difference, and I have a preference of the breathe over any mantra. I want to add in the most powerful yet most fundamental technique into my practice, and I am assuming that is spinal breathing... am I correct? |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2015 : 7:32:02 PM
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| I am in a unique position to answer your question, having done yoga for 2 years and buddhist meditation for 6 months, which is very short but I will try. I will try to keep everything I say to personal experience. AYP requires very little effort compared to shamatha and vipassana practice. Also the amount of time you need to devote is much less for AYP. If you did only 20 minutes of concentration practice twice a day you would not get very far for a very long time. AYP is heavily energy based, no doubt about that. You will start feeling energy soon enough if you start. However, you will inevitably need to self-pace on your path. Depending to your unique matrix of obstructions, you may not need to self-pace very much at all. This is about as far as I got with AYP, essentially cutting down my meditation time to 0. So I will stop here. Best to try out from experience. |
Edited by - ak33 on Jan 08 2015 7:32:49 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 03:56:41 AM
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Dear Reality,
That sounds just fine. You can add Spinal Breathing Pranayama prior to your breath meditation.
Good luck
Sey |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 09:46:07 AM
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ak33 make a good point. More techniques actually result in less time spent in practice. The combination of them is extremely powerful and yes, self-pacing becomes a very important issues. If you take up spinal breathing you will need to pay close attention to self-pacing too.
I have practised breath focused meditation + spinal breathing and it is certainly effective. I am actually thinking of returning to breath meditation (mantra meditation is very strong and I don't want to take the risk of overload).
Breath meditation is in fact an AYP technique, although not as visible as mantra meditation. It is described in Lesson 367 (in the second half)
Hope you find the combination of practices that works for you. Good luck! |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 10:56:44 AM
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| Yeah it's really up to you. If you can handle the power of AYP practice than surely you will progress fast. Some people are just too sensitive for mantra meditation, I am one of them. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 12:53:20 PM
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Me too, and we are not the only ones.
I guess that is why Yogani wrote that Lesson 367.
Sensitivity to practices is a good thing as long as we self-pace accordingly. The fact that many more techniques are there shouldn't put pressure on anyone to use more than they need, right? 
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2015 : 04:44:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by reality11
Well, the thing is..
On one hand, I really enjoy the fact that my current meditation essentially only has one very simple technique that I need to master in order to progress. I do not like that ayp has many techniques because this means I will need to spend a lot more time just to become accustomed to them, let alone mastering them.
On the other hand, perhaps the fact that there's so many more techniques might mean the practice is more fine-tuned and might lead to faster progress.
So there's not really a clear cut answer, imo, on which path to take..
Right now, the idea of mixing the two techniques appeals to me. I'm thinking about keeping my breathe meditation, and adding in spinal breathing. Does this sound okay to you guys? I don't want to do the DM because I don't believe that the object of meditation makes a difference, and I have a preference of the breathe over any mantra. I want to add in the most powerful yet most fundamental technique into my practice, and I am assuming that is spinal breathing... am I correct?
ayp is quite simple compared to some kriya lineages. (but for now lets call ayp a type in kriya in this respone). kriya is directly acting upon the central nadi running through the spine. you have knots(chakras) that pull energy into the body rather than allowing it to flow upwards to the center of the brain(3rd ventricle, the void ). a typical kriya breath(pranayama) does work on all knots and they say erode at casual karma. however the navel knot and heart knot need something else is to quicken success. thats where navi and the chin movmements come in. in kriya lineages the chin movements are refered to thokar. and spinal breathing is infused into the head movments. so ayp is a lot easier in regards to that. i dont believe ayp has anything for the root chakra but maha mudra was given for that. whatim saying is that theres a reason behind each technique. they dont need to be all employed at the same time either. start with pranayama n meditation. then add navi, mahamudra.. and then some time down the road after kechari has happened employ thokar or the techniques ayp gives in its place |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2015 : 01:08:37 AM
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Dear Reality11,
I agree with what Sey and Blue have said, above. AYP is a practical system of useful tools. You don't need to "believe" in anything for it to work.
A distinction I would like to clarify, though, pertaining to your comment:
"The work and the goal is simple: focus on the breath, not because the breath is inherently magical; it is simply a concentration object that can be replaced by anything else."
In yoga the breath actually is "inherently magical" and different from other objects of concentration, once you go beyond the simple "watching the breath" phase. The deeper you go in meditation, you will begin to perceive the "energy" aspect of the breath, and different breathing techniques open up a whole new dimension. When you get into spinal breathing pranayama you will discover this experientially, and if it results in overload, you will need to adjust your routine accordingly.
All the best, and keep us posted as you go along!
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2015 : 01:52:39 AM
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There is power in simplicity! Don't worry about the labels of yoga or Buddhism or whatever. All techniques operate in the same place: the nervous system. So follow the instincts that lead you to purification and opening, and to pure bliss consciousness.
Nothing's set in stone. Keep what works, discard what doesn't, and keep learning by trial and error. Life is for making mistakes. Refinement is our reward. Enlightenment is our destination!
Know thyself. Trust thyself. Love thyself.  |
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Should I return to these practices?
