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joseph
117 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 17 2014 : 3:03:46 PM
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I want to not exist, to not exist forever, or not exist right now. do you get this ever?
the sages say i'm the eternal reality and i think i want to destroy that reality because it's horrible, but it's indestructible (apparently). there's no desire for the experience of bliss or union with it; deleting/destroying it seems better.
it's a persistant feeling..
some background info: i've been meditating for a few years and have self paced recently, tried to ground better, etc. but there's very strongly the sense of existing, and wanting the end of it. apparently the sages were 'unaware of the world'. unsure what to make of it all but if someone has input it might help. thank you. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2014 : 4:35:25 PM
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I can relate.
One method of self-inquiry is neti neti, which is "not this, not this". The idea is that you're stripping identity away from anything of form (existence), with the goal of whittling yourself down to the non-existent seed of awareness. However, that can be a trap, of course, because here we are, still in the world of form. Another method of self-inquiry is affirmation, which is the flip-side of the coin. You can recognize that your self is reflected in all things: other people, plants, the air, the cosmos, etc.
I think the trick is to use both, and that way there is a fullness within the paradox. I like to say: I am not the body and mind, and I am the body and mind--simultaneously.
Here's a good lesson on the difference between witnessing and blocking out the world with psychological defense mechanisms:
http://www.aypsite.org/122.html
For me, meditation and other AYP practices have actually compelled me to get more involved and engaged in the world, even while seeking solace in the solitude of inner silence.
Best wishes on your path.  |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2014 : 5:13:05 PM
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Joseph... I fully understand and sympathise... I am stuck where u at... But the main reason behind all this and i speak and face myself here... Is that my work life is a mess... I have no love in my life... And i am pretty much a big failure in most of what i do... But i get up everyday and try and make the best of things... I've changed or let go of many bad habbits within myself (many are still lingering) and i try not to hurt others anymore (yet i do intentionally or not sometimes...) i live in the hope that god might change my fate some day and that if i try and do my best and be out there... Things might open up... What is even worse in my case is that i've seen through the veil of a separate individuality yet still here i am... Thoughts of suicide float by here as well... But i think to myself... This illusion would keep on going in another form... Best stick and deal with what u know... There is a saying in christianity which goes.. Deny yourself, carry your cross and follow me... You have love for god... For the unknown... For the one writing these words who loves u in ways u can't imagine... To be honest i do so bcz i feel sorry for u and for myself... Peops like us need love and i say this in case u r like me... U might be stronger who knows... Thks for this window of release... Much love and namaste |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2014 : 4:35:40 PM
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Cheers Bodhi Tree, Ananda.
If I'm busy in the world or not it seems to be all the same. it's like there's no difference between sitting in meditation and working hard with others, because the "I" is there in both.
What I've realized is that when awareness arises there's the feeling of being all alone, and highly conscious of the fact. There's nothing that isn't myself; there are no other people, just the One spirit, looking through the eyes of all the people. But it must be so alone - the Spirit/Awareness. I feel that this world of form is what the spirit uses to escape from itself, look outward into the world so that it/I am not confronted with the fact I'm all alone.
In spite of this there is one thing that never fails to ignite a spark of hope and that's thinking of a great sage/mystic, because I know most of them have been here and suffered this.
They are here in fact (I tell myself intellectually), but I can't feel their love and I don't know why, or how we could come to lose it, hence the suffering. |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2014 : 4:46:05 PM
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The bad habits aren't yours, Ananda. they're in the field and no need to try to change them  Thanks for the saying of Jesus, and the link. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2014 : 8:28:11 PM
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What you describe is best understood as scenery. That is, we are on a journey, and the scenery will change as we move forward. With that in mind, I'm quite certain you and I can--and will--behold new shades and shimmers of Self, which will probably be increasingly mind-blowing, and way beyond mere utterances of sameness or uniformity.  |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2014 : 11:55:35 PM
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| Check main lesson 333. Yogani deals with this issue of loneliness over there. All the best. Salam |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2014 : 12:59:53 AM
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| wants are what get in the way. awareness has to stoop down to want. you have to want dissolution ina different way. it itself has to be a very conscious want. not something that is happening in the traditional compulsion way we humans understanding. stillness is giving up thought, your wants, likes, dislikes, everything that in your mind. it will sink in and become a "homebase" eventually. |
Edited by - adishivayogi on Nov 19 2014 01:04:43 AM |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2014 : 8:09:47 PM
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Yeah there's a lot of scenery for sure, Bodhi Tree, been dealing with a prematurely awakened kundalini for a few years (actually how I came across this site looking for help). It's probably behind the philosophical thinking and the alone feeling. I read Gopi's book where he says that once awakened it will try to dissolve all in its path, which seems to be the case.
the other symptoms are music/bell sounds in the head and buzzing or high pitched ringing, and occasionally visual disturbances.
I think I'll use this thread to note any changes in any of this, might help to keep track of it and try to understand better. I should have put this in the first post really but it kind of didn't seem important and has been going on so long i'm used to it!
thanks for all your support, it's much valued. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2014 : 11:29:20 PM
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I've read Gopi Krishna's book too. Symptoms of overload are challenging at times. Fortunately, we have plenty of good tools to help us dance with the transformation. Glad to be on the path with you.
Love. Resilience. Versatility. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2014 : 11:53:45 PM
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| Check lesson 69 as well to get a full grasp of what's going on inside you. |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2014 : 12:44:52 PM
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2014 : 4:40:47 PM
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Update: Much the same, but a few things to note. I find that the alone feeling usually follows a time of stress/too much activity. It's been very strong past few days but there have been breaks in it where freedom and happiness prevails. There's a true connection to life in these times.
I've felt something that feels like a heartbeat.. in the perineum, and mid-lower back at spine, and the same thing in the chest, except when it happens in the chest it's powerful - a big thud, sometimes there's three or four in a row. Usually follows asanas or posture work or pranayama. Release of energy maybe.. hopefully negative energy..
But what to do about it if anything? (Don't want it to suddenly explode in my head like with Gopi Krishna. Must be cautious  )
I see there are many breathing techniques and how powerful they can be, and there are many, many ways of directing the breath. And each one has its own distinct effect. Some dissipate tension, others seem to increase energy flow and then I may get louder ringing in the ears, or perhaps some powerful emotion. Been experimenting quite a lot with breath, and really noticing changes in the body. I think on this forum.. anyone practicing ayp or something similar is a kind of pioneer. There's advice and help but essentially what we're doing is experimenting, exploring new ways ourselves, and the paths have not been walked very much before us, and who knows what we'll come up with...
I reckon in a hundred years forums like this will be acknowledged for really helping everyone to understand chakras, kundalini, prana and all the rest!
Peace, and happy new year! |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2015 : 2:52:57 PM
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Found an excerpt to describe the alone state mentioned. From Huxley's novel "Island":
" "No escape," he whispered, and the words confirmed the fact, transformed it into a hideous certitude that kept opening out, opening down, into depth below depth of malignant vulgarity, hell beyond hell of utterly pointless suffering....
....Immortal in its pointlessness, suffering would go on forever. In all other respects one was grotesquely, despicably finite. Not in respect to suffering. This dark little inspissated clot that one called "I" was capable of suffering to infinity and, in spite of death, the suffering would go on forever. The pains of living and the pains of dying, the routine of successive agonies in the bargain basement and the final crucifixion in a blaze of tin and plastic vulgarity-reverberating, continuously amplified, they would always be there. And the pains were incommunicable, the isolation complete. The awareness that one existed was an awareness that one was always alone. Just as much alone in Babs's musky alcove as one had been alone with one's earache or one's broken arm, as one would be alone with one's final cancer, alone, when one thought it was all over, with the immortality of suffering. " |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2015 : 7:39:38 PM
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Hello Joseph,
That's beautiful prose to illustrate your feeling. Thank you.
Suffering can give us courage.It's a unique gift to work through those storms. We can always see storm clouds on the horizon.
Did you know Aldous Huxely was close friends with great and spiritually-minded people, including Swami Prabhupada, who founded ISKCON, and Christopher Isherwood, the acclaimed novelist? He also was friends with a swami at the Ramakrishna monastery in California for many years.
Friendship is always here.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2015 : 10:15:57 PM
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| I echo Anima's sentiments, which are very hopeful. Suffering is the raw material we can refine into liberation. Wishing you the best on your path, Joseph. |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2015 : 11:16:11 AM
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Cheers Anima Deorum, Bodhi Tree,
I was aware Huxley was friends with J. Krishnamurti, but not the others. I think the both of them had felt that state. This passage must have been written from experience.
What I've been thinking about is how these states are possible in the first place? There is never an answer to that. There is support here though - lucky to have found that, I suppose.. |
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 11:41:34 PM
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Half four in the morning, I'm wide awake. 
We want to see God, and when we hear of some path and embark upon it and run, sprint even, instead of walk, we have little idea what we're setting ourselves up for.
This excerpt from The Doors of Perception should serve as another caution, for myself and others like me.
" The literature of religious experience abounds in references to the pains and terrors overwhelming those who have come, too suddenly, face to face with some manifestation of the Mysterium tremendum. In theological language, this fear is due to the incompatibility between man’s egotism and the divine purity, between man’s self-aggravated separateness and the infinity of God. Following Boehme and William Law, we may say that, by unregenerate souls, the divine Light at its full blaze can be apprehended only as a burning, purgatorial fire. An almost identical doctrine is to be found in The Tibetan Book of the Dead, where the departed soul is described as shrinking in agony from the Pure Light of the Void, and even from the lesser, tempered Lights, in order to rush headlong into the comforting darkness of selfhood as a reborn human being, or even as a beast, an unhappy ghost, a denizen of hell. Anything rather than the burning brightness of unmitigated Reality–anything! "
I'm going to stay in the comforting darkness and if one day it suddenly turns to Light it will have nothing to do with me
Stay safe on the path.. |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2015 : 12:51:50 PM
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It hurts in the darkness, but that too, will break apart. Guru knows. Keep the faith!
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2015 : 1:41:50 PM
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| Aye, guru knows, and everything will happen in it's own good time |
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khechari
Ukraine
13 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2018 : 01:31:52 AM
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Read this just now. Can relate so strongly!
This nagging feeling of existence which is the constant companion is the major source of suffering.
Deleting/destroying this nuisance seems most desirable, but also dissolution and bliss as the result of this delete.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1532 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2018 : 01:49:19 AM
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I would say it is not a deletion of existence that is required but an embrace - a love of all that is and all that is not.
Sey |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2018 : 04:51:45 AM
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| Aaaah, nothingness |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2020 : 10:25:09 PM
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Hello, I stumbled unto this topic again. Ever since the age of seven i’ve had a realization that this world is a prison and that everyone is acting even my parents.. and I wanted to get out from all this illusion.. As years passed by I realized that in a sense that realization is true and most of humanity isn’t aware of itself nor does it have one single permanent I... yet all is that divine presence and it’s empty at the same time. Existent and non existent. A contradiction.
Speaking for myself.. I guess things have changed from back then if you read my first post where there were thoughts of suicide. And I am sharing again because of this. To others who are at that place. Hang on in there. It will pass. It really does! Nowadays these thoughts never even cross my mind thank God. Yet there is this detachment from existence non the less. Even though I am very active in the world now. Love to everyone
Live in this world as though, you are a stranger or traveler. Muhammad. |
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k.cherry
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2020 : 12:14:14 PM
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Hi Ananda
Thanks for your update and encouragement. I am coming out of a dark place like this myself and am very familiar with these feelings. I'm glad I haven't "deleted myself" but I definitely understand the state, and the feeling that this reality is a prison. Just last night I had a dream where I was about to be locked up forever, and the guard whispered to me, "There is no escape, only time." *shudders* And yet I woke up feeling like this was a riddle, like saying that it's our sense of time that keeps us in this perceived prison. idk
-KC |
Edited by - k.cherry on Nov 11 2020 3:55:53 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2020 : 12:15:23 AM
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You are in prison. If you wish to get out of prison, the first thing you must do is realize that you are in prison. If you think you are free, you can't escape.
G.I. Gurdjieff
Thinking is one thing and doing or being is another.. Much love dear k |
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Want to delete myself
