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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 18 2014 : 11:19:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
The million dollar question however is how do you make sure you don't accumulate it/store it for later? Is there anything we can learn from people who have experienced long-term overload? Is there anything you can do early on in your practice to make sure you don't hit a wall in a few years time?
Hi BlueRainCoat, Krish, tonightsthenight and All:
The answer to this is not to take on too many practices too soon. Of course, with an "open source" system like AYP, and many practitioners who want it all right now, there are going to be those who do too much in the first few years and end up going the other way to no practice when purification/opening gets ahead of the nervous system's ability to accommodate it. This could be viewed as a form of premature kundalini awakening.
Jim and His Karma gives excellent advice above where he suggests to always aim for a balance point between all and none.
It is important to give the body/mind time to assimilate and process the purification that is occurring at each new level of practice. There is a big difference between taking on a full plate of practices over 5-10 years versus taking them on over 5-10 months. The former can be fine, while the latter could be asking for trouble.
We talk a lot about self-pacing in AYP, and also about the delayed reactions that can occur with aggressive practice -- especially with pranayama, mudras and bandhas. But who will listen to the advice "Don't eat too much" at an all-you-can-eat restaurant? 
It boils down to that. This has always been a concern since AYP started, and for the most part practitioners have been careful, as indicated in this lesson titled "Responsibility," written in 2004: http://www.aypsite.org/217.html
Of course, there are always going to be exceptions, and they are often reported in these forums, which may or may not be representative of the wide range of practitioners out there who are drawing on the AYP resources these days.
In the traditions, practices are given out over years and decades, and in many cases never. In AYP, a full range of practices is available for use at the practitioner's discretion. This creates opportunities, and also risks for those who try to go too fast. It is a new paradigm, and it remains to be seen whether the pros will outweigh the cons for open source systems of spiritual practice over the long term.
For some more perspective from here, below are a some thoughts that have been sent to Krish and tonightsthenight in recent emails.
Wishing you the best on your path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
quote:
Hi Krish:
That is a very aggressive routine you have there, and I would not recommend making it more aggressive. With all the energy practices you have, be mindful of accumulated delayed effects and be ready to self-pace. Less could be more. If you let go a bit, you could find more openings, rather than less. You know -- surrender.
How is your daily activity? Have you noticed benefits in your work, family and relationships? Keep in mind that our activity is important for stabilizing the results of practices. Very important to keep a balance and not go too far in one direction or the other.
The best way to speed up may be to slow down a bit. Yoga is about letting go after all. It is a bit counter-intuitive. "Less is more" sums it up. But there is obviously a something to do. Eventually we find ourselves doing it without expectations, even as our bhakti is raging. Intensity without expectations. No question about your intensity. Have you been able to ramp down your expectations ... to the point where you don't care if the energy is on the left, right, middle, or not at all? Enlightenment is about much more than kundalini.
Have you done much with self-inquiry? Service? Spent time at holy places, retreats, etc? Just noticing the flow of life in and around you without having to do something with it? It is about letting go in stillness and doing whatever is in front of us. Not easy I know. But also the easiest thing in the world when the time is right.
AYP retreats are one of the best ways to safely boost progress, but we are yet to have our first one in India. I'm sure Christi would be happy to come and run one if adequate attendance could be mustered to support him traveling from the UK.
quote:
Hi tonightsthenight:
Maybe you have been overdoing it a bit for some time. It can sneak up on us without our noticing. That, combined with your initial kundalini situation, may have brought you to a place now where no practices might be a relief for a while. You will know when it is time to creep them back up. Moderation is the key. Good you are self-pacing, letting your experience be your guide.
There have been cases where certain practitioners overdid it in a big way with AYP for quite a long time, and ended up not being able to do practices at all. Sometimes their conclusion has been, "Yoga does not work for me anymore," and the path has been redefined according to their capacity and tendencies. The truth is that taking on too much too soon and overdoing consistently over a long period does not work well for anyone, and I do lament the suspension of the continued cultivation of abiding inner silence in meditation when it occurs. There is no amount of self-inquiry (or non-practice) that can make up for that.
Overdoing is one of the down sides of open source self-directed practice. I am always weighing the pros and cons of the AYP approach. There seem to be many more pros than cons. But the jury is still out. It is something new we have been doing with AYP over the past 10 or so years.
Unfortunately, it is not possible for me to be of much assistance to those who get to the stage of "Yoga does not work for me anymore," and are off doing other things. At that point, the variations in approach become unlimited, as many as there are practitioners. By then maybe AYP has done all it can do. It can't be all things to all people at all times. But it can be a useful resource and stepping stone. If more people are finding progress on their path, I am happy.
Not saying you are one of those extreme cases. It is just a pattern that has been observed among those who tend to be overzealous.
Then again, structured sitting practices may not be for everyone at all times. I have managed to keep them going for 40+ years, but that does not mean everyone should. We each have to find our own way. It has been a joy to see how far you have come over the past few years by your own effort, and I wish you all the best in the years ahead!
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2014 : 1:22:54 PM
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Borrowing your driving analogy, dear Yogini, my ride has been thrilling without many bumps, but I just passed a sign warning "Reduce Speed Ahead". Thank you for sharing this timely correspondence.  |
Edited by - Dogboy on Aug 18 2014 1:48:38 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2014 : 1:33:25 PM
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Thank you for your prompt reply Yogani
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
I am always weighing the pros and cons of the AYP approach. There seem to be many more pros than cons. But the jury is still out.
I would like to put in a word on the side of the pros if I may. I can't even begin to tell you what a blessing it has been finding this advanced yoga method available as an open source. Every yoga teacher in the UK specializes in asanas only. I am fairly convinced Christi must be one of the very, very few exceptions. I myself tried teacher after teacher in and around my area and I would despair because there was not a hint about anything beyond asanas. I only found AYP following a decision I took last year to stitch up my own method (at any risk) by reading books. When I got your "Advanced Yoga Practices" book and realised it really was a tried and tested, complete yoga method I was high for about a week afterwards. To this day I still pinch myself sometimes.
Please do not think I am trying to find weaknesses in the AYP method. I have been inquiring quite intensely into this long-term overdoing issue only because I have difficulties understanding how it can happen - wondering if I’m missing something. I think it's because experientially I cannot relate at all. If I overdo myself, I know it by the evening of the same day. That is why it bugs me that somebody can overdo for months on end and not notice it. 10 months after starting AYP, I'm still on 15 minutes DM plus 5 minutes SBP (often not even that - there is 'voice ' telling me to stop after just a few breadths some days) I would be very distraught about my slow progress through the practices if it weren't for the transformation I can see in myself. The effects are bordering on unbelievable. So I'm beginning not to care if I stay on meditation and SBP only for the next decade provided these wonderful changes continue to happen to me.
I'm wondering if - for the benefit of all AYPers - it might be possible to work out the difference between somebody who realises very quickly when they've overloaded and somebody who doesn't and carries on overloading for months. Something to do with self-awareness? Mindfulness? That's as far as I got hypothesising. Could it be something quantifiable – or at least noticeable - so that people might know if they are prone to overloading and purposefully delay taking up new practices even if they feel they are up for it 
Thank you again Yogani for your reply. Thank you for everything  |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2014 : 11:34:37 PM
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All this talk of "overloadind" you guys are having is now getting me worried whether a long-delayed "overloading" (symptoms) is going to hit me hard soon.I checked with Yogani, and he seems to think everything is ok and not to worry.But after reading this thread today my concern has returned.
Krish
[/quote]
Hi Krish,
My experience is similar with yours. I have been practicing yoga for many years. My favorite has always been the meditation. No matter how much time I spend with the meditation, I have no over-load symptoms. Just like you, hearing all this talk about negative effects made me worried  But everything is going great - nothing to worry about. We are all different - we have different needs - but the destination is the same.
Bliss in your practice and in your life! |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2014 : 01:27:47 AM
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I would also like to tip in towards the pros of AYP. Lost in the Indian Ocean on a tiny island, what would have my chances been like to find a good set of techniques for spiritual transformation? Without open source AYP, practically non-existent. My life is now a flow of stillness in action(most days). 'Thank you Yogani' is inadequate to express my gratitude and joy.
Sey |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2014 : 1:08:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
I would also like to tip in towards the pros of AYP. Lost in the Indian Ocean on a tiny island, what would have my chances been like to find a good set of techniques for spiritual transformation? Without open source AYP, practically non-existent. My life is now a flow of stillness in action(most days). 'Thank you Yogani' is inadequate to express my gratitude and joy.
Sey
Even if we are all miles away from each other, each playing a part in the theater of life, every day we are together in the Absolute Ocean. Thank you, Divine Guru! |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2014 : 09:02:22 AM
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hi everyone,
as Yogani mentioned, Jim's advice about moving toward the middle is undeniably sound.
the middle path, which is more of a mental attitude (or mudra) than a particular action, is applicable to our pursuit of inner practices and also our movements in daily life.
I feel like this thread has gone off the original discussion, which is fine, and that is my own fault because of my tendency for aloofness and obtuseness.
in my OP, I meant to relate how I became imbalanced in daily life: taking on too many responsibilities, neglecting to balance sthira with sukha. it lead to karmic action which limited me in a physical and mental way.
in the end, this is not so different from overload from spiritual practices and the same advice applies: seek the middle way. this is a great lesson for me, learning to find balance in my interaction with the external world and applying the hard won lessons of "self pacing" to daily life. self pacing, after all, is ahimsa, a powerful concept, and one that goes to the root of our existence in this realm.
here at ayp, I feel that we have a tendency for alarmist rhetoric when it comes to overload. we don't want people to get in deep doo doo! and many come here suffering great bouts of imbalance. myself included.
but there is no need to worry over it. we are all seeking balance, and we will all eventually find it. we learn from our mistakes and move forward to make new ones in turn.
thanks for this great discussion, I hope that peace flows like a broad and gentle river for all
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