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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
 Posted - May 28 2014 : 04:20:06 AM
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Namaste friends, 
I've been doing spiritual practices for about half a decade. AYP has been one of the main sources of information and practice on my path (thank you yogani and forum contributors! ), but I also practiced other meditations in between.
I had a question about Ishta that I posted here yesterday http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=14378
It has already been answered very helpfully. Thank you to Ayiram, Maheswari and of course Yogani who had already answered in the lessons before I even raised the question.  
Another much related question came up regarding building a practice over time. This is something that had already been longer on my mind.
In one of the lessons on bhakti, yogani wrote:
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A chosen ideal (...) can be a blend of ideals, such as the icons and ideals of our religion mixed with inquiry, affirmation and discrimination. And we will carry these through life, even as our ideal expands as we undergo the inner purification and opening associated with the ongoing process of human spiritual transformation.
Could we also say something along these lines:
quote:
A chosen spiritual practice can be a blend of meditation techniques and other practices from different systems and traditions, such as mantra meditation and awareness meditation, yoga and tai chi. And we will carry these through life, even as our practices expand as we undergo the inner purification and opening associated with the ongoing process of human spiritual transformation.
?
I have practiced a few different meditation techniques. And noticed cycles in which I'm more inclined towards mantra meditation, then cycles in which I'm more inclined to do an awareness based meditation (observing breath and body sensations) for instance.
Given the analogy and caution on not starting to dig different wells, how do we know if we are digging in different places or just digging in the same place with different tools to accommodate to the soil on which we are working?
I feel an answer coming: quote:
The guru is in you
Still a doubt arises upon hearing this answer in the mind's cozzy chatter:
Is the guru then the intuition that makes me practice what "feels" right? I heard teachers say that it may just be the mind avoiding a difficulty that would have to be dealt with if one had stuck with the same technique. So my questions are to avoid such possible traps.
If you have wise musings to share, I'll be happy to hear.
Thank you! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 05:03:25 AM
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Hi Bhaktilove,
You will probably find the answer to your questions here:
Baseline systems of practice and research on modifications
The basics of it is that you need to be digging your well in one place, not 50 places, which means not changing your practices constantly. At the same time everyone is drawn to particular practices which resonate with them, so we can be complimenting our baseline yoga practice with other practices if we want to be.
Personally, I have benefited a great deal from complimenting my yoga practice with various Buddhist practices. It is a very personal thing and it also changes over time as we evolve spiritually just as our yoga practice does.
Christi |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 07:28:02 AM
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Hi Christi
Thank you. I am happy to receive your reply. I love to read your posts.
I'm familiar with the lesson you quoted. Somehow it doesn't seem to be addressing my query.
It makes sense that it takes time to develop practices and for that reason it is not recommended to jump from one practice to another in short times. I have done some exploration, but generally, this is not how I practice. The lesson refers to some adaptations to the system (for instance changing one part for another). This is also not fully what I am trying to ask.
So, perhaps it will be good to explain more concretely my situation....
I have been practicing mainly two practices on a regular basis. One is AYP, the other is observing what manifests in the body (this is practiced in many traditions, including different branches of the Buddhist and Yogic).
(I am familiar with other practices as well, but these were short as part of exploration during courses and holidays.)
My question pertains mostly to the two above mentioned meditation practices. Does it make sense to alternate these in cycles? Say, practice one for one year, and another for another year? (year could be replaced by half year or other time intervals) So far, this is what has happened here. I discovered AYP soon on the journey, practicing it for say about 1 year. Then I explored. Then practiced mostly the awareness meditation (say, for a year). Then came back to AYP for a year. And have found myself drawn to the awareness practice again lately.
When it comes to the awareness meditation, it is very limited in scope (apart from the meditation it has a self-inquiry component). I feel something is missing (especially devotional - heart aspect), but I am drawn to the meditation of simply resting and observing. For this, I love to listen and chant kirtan which involves all kind of mantras and bhakti filled songs. This part of my "practice" (it's not really practice, just what I love to do) is very random. As well as the part of studying scriptures. They come from all possible paths and traditions.
I read the explanation of digging one well (using one meditation technique), instead of starting digging at new places without reaching sufficient depth in the first well.
It came to my mind that we also could be digging the same well with many different tools depending on the soil we are digging in at different times Say in the first meter the soil may be soft, then it may become harder and require a heavier tool. Then it may rain, making the soil softer and the first tool would be more natural. Then we may come on a rocky surface, which are perhaps better dealt with a new tool etc.
In conclusion, here are the two questions..
On a more philosophical note:
Why is practicing different meditation techniques at different times considered digging another well, rather than changing tools for the same well? Do not all paths lead to the same enlightenment?
Practical advice for my personal practice:
How does it sound to have two systems (1: AYP; 2: awareness type meditation with self-inquiry) alternating in cycles with one of the systems much adapted (the awareness - self-inquiry one is complemented with kirtan-bhakti which is not part of that system and the self-inquiry is a mix of plenty of different traditions)?
Thanks in advance
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Edited by - bhaktilove on May 28 2014 07:35:36 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 6:47:59 PM
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Hi Bhaktilove,
I would say that it takes time to establish a spiritual practice and then go deep with it to the level of awakening. Time means years, 5, 10, 20, 30... that kind of time-scale. As we take a practice and go deep with it, things change in the body and mind. Openings happen and things begin to be purified on a very deep level. Sometimes it can be painful and difficult to deal with the changes that are taking place and with some of the obstructions that are being purified. Our whole body is changed, and our whole life is changed, so it is a deep process.
If we keep changing practices it takes much longer for this process to happen. I would not say that it will not happen at all, but it will take much longer. The journey could take several lifetimes instead of being completed in one lifetime. Changing practices every year would certainly slow things down in this way. There is also another difficulty in that if changing practices on a regular basis (and I would count once a year as regular) is part of our routine, when we begin to face aspects of the evolution of consciousness which are demanding, or difficult, we may find that we are tempted to simply switch practices to avoid that aspect of the awakening. This can even happen on a sub-conscious level, so we may not even be aware that we are doing it.
So I would say that if you want to practice two different meditation techniques, practice them both continuously, say one in the morning and the other in the late afternoon. But keep both practices up, don't switch from one to the other. And then if you want to sing... sing! (kirtan), any time you like.
Personally I integrated a Buddhist meditation practice into my AYP practice for many years. I put it right in with the AYP practices, so my sessions would go something like 10 mins SBP 10 mins Buddhist meditation, 20 mins DM, 10 mins samyama 5 mins rest. I came to AYP with a long term Buddhist meditation practice and did not want to give it up. I am also familiar with Buddhist inquiry practice and metta (loving kindness) practice which I also did not stop. I also had a devotional yogic practice which I had followed for many years before beginning AYP, and I did not stop that either. In fact AYP simply made my devotion stronger.
Of course any adaptation to practice that we make in this way is our own experiment, especially if we are the first person to attempt a particular mix of practices. But I was happy to experiment, and felt safe that things would work out fine. The only thing I would caution people over is mixing AYP with powerful energetic practices from other systems, as AYP is already a powerful energetic practice. But the body awareness technique that you do and self-inquiry, etc. would not come under that.
Christi
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 10:59:06 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you for this extended reply, with the clarifications and for offering a closer look at your personal practice.
Sometimes I find it difficult to know whether what is happening is obstructions coming to the surface or whether the happenings are being created by practicing in an unbalanced way (with the awareness method by itself). For instance, with more intense practice of the awareness meditation during retreat, some strange visions came in the mind and after the retreat more events occurred that I found dubious (mostly during the night). Even though I can let go of the happenings easily, it doesn't seem like a positive evolution as I hardly ever had these kinds of dreams and visions before.
What does this look like to you?
Another concern that I have is that the tradition where I learned this meditation of awareness of subtleties in the body (with their impermanence) is quite rigid. If one wants to go further in this tradition there is no flexibility in allowing students to do practices that are not taught by the tradition. But I am much attracted to the practice and the environment in which I can practice with this tradition as a complement to AYP and I would love to go deeper with it.
I like your suggestion to do the two practices, and it can be seen as a personal implementation of AYP, but in the other tradition it will not be considered appropriate and it will be more difficult to learn there over the long term unless one surrenders completely to the tradition's way of practicing and perhaps to some extent even to the suggested lifestyle. My current lifestyle is entirely in line with their perspective of an ideal life conducive to practices, so this is not an issue for me (unless I would change some aspects later). So, the low tolerance for other practices is the main issue.
Philosophically and as an overall approach and understanding of spiritual practices, I am very much in tune with AYP. AYP feels like my spiritual home.
The energetic component is taking care of by itself when I sit quietly, so I feel less inclined to do the energetic practices of AYP in a formal fashion.
Kundalini feels blissful if sitting is with sweet devotion. If the latter is somewhat missing owing to more rigid practice (emphasis on jnana and technique), then it seems happenings like the ones mentioned in the first paragraph may be produced. Also, I have felt negative thought patterns arising and perhaps start to expand if the method is practiced more extensively for longer times (which does not occur if bhakti is allowed before / during the practice). If it is obstructions coming up and needing of release, I guess it is ok. If it is produced by practicing in a way that is unbalanced for me, then it seems not ok?
In terms of meditation practice and retreat environment, the awareness meditation has given me so much and feels right to have as a regular practice, except being somewhat limited in its scope and tolerance by itself and the above consideration.
Thank you for your time and sharing your wisdom. It seems that we have a lot of resonance in terms of preferences for practices.
I would be happy to hear what you feel about what I wrote here. 
bhaktilove
PS: While this post was written to Christi, if others are willing to contribute, I will be very happy also
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Edited by - bhaktilove on May 29 2014 12:47:33 AM |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2014 : 12:18:33 AM
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Hi Christi, can you list some examples of powerful energetic techniques from other systems that one should not mix with AYP? Just to understand better what we should avoid when we try to mix things.  This seems to be a relevant issue since many of us had an established practice in other systems before starting AYP, and it's tempting to keep some beloved techniques from the past and add AYP-based practices. For example, it was hard for me to reduce my asana practice in order to create space\time for AYP. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2014 : 6:36:31 PM
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Hi Bakhtilove,
Dreams and visions are common symptoms of purification happening in the body. Some spiritual practices are more likely to produce powerful dreams and visions than others, but it does not mean that those practices are unbalanced. Some things that happen during the process of awakening can be very strange. Best just to regard it as scenery and carry on.
quote:
Another concern that I have is that the tradition where I learned this meditation of awareness of subtleties in the body (with their impermanence) is quite rigid. If one wants to go further in this tradition there is no flexibility in allowing students to do practices that are not taught by the tradition. But I am much attracted to the practice and the environment in which I can practice with this tradition as a complement to AYP and I would love to go deeper with it.
I like your suggestion to do the two practices, and it can be seen as a personal implementation of AYP, but in the other tradition it will not be considered appropriate and it will be more difficult to learn there over the long term unless one surrenders completely to the tradition's way of practicing and perhaps to some extent even to the suggested lifestyle.
This is a more difficult issue. There are some traditions which require you to only do their spiritual practices and not to do any other spiritual practices at all. If this is the case, then really you have to make a choice, to follow that way or not. Personally, I would make that choice and stick to one or the other, rather than switching every year.
Making a choice like that is obviously not easy and you really have to rely on your intuition. You could consider a number of questions: Which practice is giving you the best results so far? Which feels right? Do you know people who have practised for a long time and who are getting good results? Does one path seem too sectarian and limited? Obviously only you can answer those questions for yourself.
As to your question about whether negative symptoms arising are the result of obstructions being cleared out in the subtle nervous system, and therefore a good sign, or the result of engaging in an unbalanced practice, and therefore a bad sign, that is a very hard one to answer, because the symptoms can look very similar or even identical. To be honest, the only real way to tell is to take a large sample of people who are engaging in the practice and watch what happens over time. If the symptoms are the result of purification, then they will pass and give way to rising enlightenment and spiritual awakening. If the symptoms are the result of unbalanced, or dangerous practices, then that will not happen and people will simply remain spiritually asleep.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2014 : 6:49:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Hi Christi, can you list some examples of powerful energetic techniques from other systems that one should not mix with AYP? Just to understand better what we should avoid when we try to mix things. This seems to be a relevant issue since many of us had an established practice in other systems before starting AYP, and it's tempting to keep some beloved techniques from the past and add AYP-based practices. For example, it was hard for me to reduce my asana practice in order to create space\time for AYP.
Hi Ecdyonurus,
What I was saying is that I would caution people over mixing powerful energetic practices from other spiritual systems with AYP practices. This means that I would advise people to be careful about doing that. I was not saying that there were certain practices that could not be combined with AYP practices. The reason people should be careful is that AYP is already a powerful system of spiritual practices, so if we start adding more of the same, there can be a doubling-up effect in terms of purification and things can happen faster than we would like.
I would not say that asana practice is a powerful energetic practice unless asana practice is being combined with mudras, bandhas, pranayama and samyama techniques, so I would not worry about that. I find that for most people asana practice is grounding, balancing and gently energising. Obviously integrating a lengthy asana practice with AYP and finding the time for it all twice a day, could be an issue, but that is another matter.
Christi |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2014 : 11:04:33 PM
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Hello Christi,
Thank you for continuing to share your valued thoughts.
As you say, it's scenery and it is wise to treat it as such and let it pass.. Some practices seem to induce beautiful scenery, such as those filled with bhakti. Some other paths emphasize avoiding inducing scenery at all cost to avoid being caught up by the scenery. I wondered if, paradoxically as it may seem, that has been the reason for my experiencing of some undesired scenery in the process while engaging in one of them. If the mind at times is not purified and silenced enough, would it not be wise to fill it with beautiful thoughts and feelings of devotion? When it is full of love, it will be easy to cope with anything that arises and what will arise may be more quietening and agreeable.
This tradition values compassionate equanimity under all circumstances. Could this wish to remain compassionate under all circumstances attract some of the worse to help one come to such place of ever lasting compassion? Some Tibetans have had to deal with incredibly devastating circumstances for instance that few would be able to bear. (Note: The tradition of which I'm speaking is not Tibetan, but the analogy might still be appropriate?)
quote:
Personally, I would make that choice and stick to one or the other, rather than switching every year.
Thank you..
I must say the tradition of which I was speaking of is mostly strict for those wishing to receive more advanced teachings and retreats. One could still practice with them for decades even if one were doing other practices, but one would likely receive the teachings of a novel practitioner (only being allowed to courses for new practitioners).
quote:
Which practice is giving you the best results so far?
The practices that have noticeably had a strong effect are those which I had the opportunity to practice intensely, both in retreats and in daily practice. In my experience, inner longing with practice is what gives best results and is more important than the type of practice itself.
Yet, different traditions have their own perspectives on life and that plays a role in the long run in how one approaches life. I am a bit cautious about this as I prefer not to get entangled with one particular belief system and love to embrace all of perspectives as coming from the same longing.
When it comes to practices itself, I feel their effectiveness, or even the ability to perform them, varies over time. When I was first introduced to AYP for instance, Spinal Breathing was very smooth and worked wonders. In later stages, it became difficult to practice and I experience breathing obstructions. When I dropped SB for a while, things cleared up. When taking it again, it would be smooth again, but not for long, even if I'd only practice SB for very short times.
So, SB has been a practice with amazing results. I really felt obstructions clearing. Yet, I could not practice it anymore after a while.
This is one of the reasons why I did practices in cycles also. I am very drawn to AYP as an approach to spiritual practices. The practices have worked, yet some of the basics seem difficult to apply daily over longer periods of time in my case.
quote:
Which feels right?
Do you know people who have practised for a long time and who are getting good results? Does one path seem too sectarian and limited? Obviously only you can answer those questions for yourself.
Very good questions to consider.
I have a feeling of what the answer is to me, so I know what to do for now, but I do not wish to commit for the long term. I feel it will be beneficial to go deeper in the tradition and then see whether the institution is still serving my path or whether I will benefit more from an open approach incorporating the benefits of the practices within the tradition.
In any case, apart from the formal meditation, I wish to continue to let my heart be inspired by bhakti teachings and practices for they really benefit me in daily life and I feel they support the formal meditation.
quote:
To be honest, the only real way to tell is to take a large sample of people who are engaging in the practice and watch what happens over time. If the symptoms are the result of purification, then they will pass and give way to rising enlightenment and spiritual awakening. If the symptoms are the result of unbalanced, or dangerous practices, then that will not happen and people will simply remain spiritually asleep.
Wonderful advice again.
Surely, some people are really doing great in this tradition and it is quite a few it seems.
For others with the best will in the world, it seems it might be causing more harm than good. I think this is rather a small group, but they are there also.
So the results seem to be somewhat mixed.
From initial practices the group at large is benefiting without doubt. In this large group, some stick with the tradition, some don't. The results over the long run can be somewhat observed, yet it is also subjective and challenging because in this tradition talking about experiences seems to be somewhat discouraged. Perhaps this communicative aspect improves as one remains in the tradition for longer times.
It's a blessing to have the opportunity to share and receive advice on this forum with warm people whom are walking a beautiful path.
Thank you
bhaktilove |
Edited by - bhaktilove on May 30 2014 11:33:57 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2014 : 5:17:30 PM
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Hi Bahaktilove,
I am not sure it would be possible to avoid scenery altogether on any effective spiritual path. As obstructions in the subtle body are purified, things are bound to come up. But certainly, not getting caught up with scenery is always good advice.
And on filling the mind with thoughts of pure love and compassion and devotion... of course! That is the essence of Bhakti Yoga. As long as we are not filling the mind during meditation, or pranayama for that matter!
I'm not sure about the idea that people who have a desire to cultivate compassion are given a really hard time by the universe in order to give them more material to work with?  It is a compelling idea, and seems to give some sense of purpose to the seemingly inexplicable fact that some people's lives are really hard, whereas others seem to have a pretty easy time of it. But whether it is actually true or not is not something that I know. It is actually a slightly dangerous idea, because there is a logical extension of it which leads to the notion that people who are mistreated or abused in this life, somehow brought that upon themselves in order to learn and progress spiritually. It is dangerous water, with no actual proof to back it. I prefer to stick with what is perceivably true. It keeps things simple.
quote:
When it comes to practices itself, I feel their effectiveness, or even the ability to perform them, varies over time. When I was first introduced to AYP for instance, Spinal Breathing was very smooth and worked wonders. In later stages, it became difficult to practice and I experience breathing obstructions. When I dropped SB for a while, things cleared up. When taking it again, it would be smooth again, but not for long, even if I'd only practice SB for very short times.
So, SB has been a practice with amazing results. I really felt obstructions clearing. Yet, I could not practice it anymore after a while.
This is one of the reasons why I did practices in cycles also. I am very drawn to AYP as an approach to spiritual practices. The practices have worked, yet some of the basics seem difficult to apply daily over longer periods of time in my case.
This is what I was referring to above when I said that as we go deeper into one practice, obstructions begin to clear and it can be painful and difficult to go through that process. Then the tendency can be to say: "Ah, this practice is not working for me, or is too difficult for me, I will change to a different practice". If switching practices is common place anyway, then the tendency to do this is much higher.
I assume that by "breathing obstructions" you are not referring to actual physical obstructions to your breathing such as contracted airways? I assume you are referring to obstructions in the subtle body that you are finding it difficult or painful to clear? (Correct me if I am wrong on this). If this is the case, then I would look at your Spinal Breathing practice to find out if there is a way that you can progress with the practice to clear these blockages. There are also various practices within AYP that can be used to clear specific blockages in the subtle body such as Targeted Spinal Bastrika. So these can be used in conjunction with Spinal Breathing.
Christi |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 08:56:23 AM
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Dear Christi,
Thank you for another reply full of helpful advice and wisdom.
quote:
I assume that by "breathing obstructions" you are not referring to actual physical obstructions to your breathing such as contracted airways? I assume you are referring to obstructions in the subtle body that you are finding it difficult or painful to clear?
Actually it is quite physical in nature. Deep breathing felt physically straining after few breaths. And at some point the body just wishes to have very little to no breathing. The simple SB procedure involving continuous deep breathing became very difficult for some reason. In the early stages of the practice I didn't have this problem at all, being able to do SB for long times (the first 2 years or so). It brought me in a peaceful blissful state.
When the breathing obstructions became a part of daily life outside of formal practices, I started to do SB only a few breaths and experimented with letting go of this practice completely to be sure this was the cause. The experiments confirmed that it is indeed SB (or pranayama in general) that caused/aggravated the breathing difficulties outside of practices.
I do not consider myself to be one who gives up so easily when challenged. After longer trials and errors I had found my practice of SB was posing issues so I followed the self-pacing advice.
When after a while of seeing this self-pacing leading to very insignificant practice times, I practiced another system that I am familiar with (awareness meditation). The breathing issues subsided very fast.
I find myself drawn to AYP though because I benefit so much from the lessons, the openness, the vibration of the website and because the practices themselves have affected me very positively overall.
Note: No obstructions are experienced when just letting the prana flow between root and brow without synchronizing these with deep breathing. It is the control of breathing itself that causes difficulties.
Would you still recommend targeted Bhastrika after reading the clarifications?
Thank you
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Bahaktilove,
I am not sure it would be possible to avoid scenery altogether on any effective spiritual path. As obstructions in the subtle body are purified, things are bound to come up. But certainly, not getting caught up with scenery is always good advice.
And on filling the mind with thoughts of pure love and compassion and devotion... of course! That is the essence of Bhakti Yoga. As long as we are not filling the mind during meditation, or pranayama for that matter!
I'm not sure about the idea that people who have a desire to cultivate compassion are given a really hard time by the universe in order to give them more material to work with? It is a compelling idea, and seems to give some sense of purpose to the seemingly inexplicable fact that some people's lives are really hard, whereas others seem to have a pretty easy time of it. But whether it is actually true or not is not something that I know. It is actually a slightly dangerous idea, because there is a logical extension of it which leads to the notion that people who are mistreated or abused in this life, somehow brought that upon themselves in order to learn and progress spiritually. It is dangerous water, with no actual proof to back it. I prefer to stick with what is perceivably true. It keeps things simple.
quote:
When it comes to practices itself, I feel their effectiveness, or even the ability to perform them, varies over time. When I was first introduced to AYP for instance, Spinal Breathing was very smooth and worked wonders. In later stages, it became difficult to practice and I experience breathing obstructions. When I dropped SB for a while, things cleared up. When taking it again, it would be smooth again, but not for long, even if I'd only practice SB for very short times.
So, SB has been a practice with amazing results. I really felt obstructions clearing. Yet, I could not practice it anymore after a while.
This is one of the reasons why I did practices in cycles also. I am very drawn to AYP as an approach to spiritual practices. The practices have worked, yet some of the basics seem difficult to apply daily over longer periods of time in my case.
This is what I was referring to above when I said that as we go deeper into one practice, obstructions begin to clear and it can be painful and difficult to go through that process. Then the tendency can be to say: "Ah, this practice is not working for me, or is too difficult for me, I will change to a different practice". If switching practices is common place anyway, then the tendency to do this is much higher.
I assume that by "breathing obstructions" you are not referring to actual physical obstructions to your breathing such as contracted airways? I assume you are referring to obstructions in the subtle body that you are finding it difficult or painful to clear? (Correct me if I am wrong on this). If this is the case, then I would look at your Spinal Breathing practice to find out if there is a way that you can progress with the practice to clear these blockages. There are also various practices within AYP that can be used to clear specific blockages in the subtle body such as Targeted Spinal Bastrika. So these can be used in conjunction with Spinal Breathing.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 8:43:25 PM
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Hi Bhaktilove,
Thanks for clarifying (and correcting me).
No, I would not recommend Targeted Spinal Bastrika in your case. What I would recommend is dropping the deep breathing. If you look at the initial preparatory instructions for Spinal Breathing Pranayama from lesson 41 they look like this:
quote:
Sit comfortably with back support, and close your eyes just as you do when you meditate. Now, keeping your mouth closed, breathe in and out slowly and deeply through your nose, but not to the extreme. Be relaxed and easy about it, breathing as slowly and deeply as possible without discomfort.
So if your deep breathing is causing discomfort then it is too deep. I would simply relax with it to a level where you do not experience any discomfort. If necessary that could mean using a normal breath.
It is also normal for the breath to become very shallow or even stop altogether. This happens as prana moving through the body takes over the movement of the breath. Prana will begin to control the breathing process and also vitalize the body for a time which means that oxygen is temporarily not needed. So if that is happening, it is fine to let that happen.
The slow breathing aspect of Spinal Breathing Pranayama is a part of what makes the practice effective, but the visualization and the movement of awareness up and down the sushumna connecting the root chakra and ajna, also makes it a powerful purification practice. So if you are not able to breathe deeply because of discomfort, then practising with a normal breath will also bring a lot of benefits.
So I would say try to practice for 10 mins using a normal breath, or a slightly slowed breath if you can do that without discomfort. If you are needing to practice for less than 10 minutes even with a normal relaxed breath, then it means that a lot of obstructions are being cleared out. When this is happening simply cut back to whatever level you need to in order to be able to practice every day without discomfort. It could be 5 mins, or 2 mins. It could even be as little as just 2 breaths before meditation. If you can only do 2 breaths before meditation without discomfort, then it means you have become very sensitive and a lot of purification is happening in the body. At that stage it is very important to continue with the practice.
So with Spinal Breathing Pranayama there is not really such a thing as an insignificant practice time. With meditation it is different, because short meditation times do not leave enough time to cultivate inner silence, so meditation needs to be kept above 10 mins, and preferably 20 mins.
I would not recommend Targeted Spinal Bastrika in this case because it involves deep breathing, and there is no way of getting round that one, so it would be completely the wrong thing.
Christi |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 11:23:08 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you for the very useful explanation. It's very helpful as it sheds light on some of my physical experiences that I didn't grasp and it gives an indication on how to continue to practice.
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Originally posted by Christi
Thanks for clarifying (and correcting me).
I had not given much information. Had I done so, there would have been no need to make assumptions. Thank you for getting the ball of further necessary clarifications rolling.
quote:
It is also normal for the breath to become very shallow or even stop altogether. This happens as prana moving through the body takes over the movement of the breath. Prana will begin to control the breathing process and also vitalize the body for a time which means that oxygen is temporarily not needed. So if that is happening, it is fine to let that happen.
Interesting explanation. Even outside of formal practices I had reached a point where breathing had become very slow and little. Two to three long breaths per minute with long pauses of no breathing were quite common unless I was engaging in strenuous physical activity.
I had become so used to it already that I thought it was normal. Despite observing people I'm close to breathing much faster and more frequently. Leave alone the dogs and cats
This is what caused the challenges with SB: My normal breathing was so slow and little that it felt completely strenuous to impose a more regular faster and more frequent breath along with the movement of prana on Sushumna nadi.
I see now that a solution could be to let the prana move much slower along the Sushumna (letting the breath guide) and to be satisfied with taking potentially shallow infrequent breaths at possibly irregular intervals. Synchronizing breath and prana according to the natural flow of kundalini at that moment.
I'm glad to hear your prana explanation (prana diminishing the need for oxygen).
When I diminished SB and DM in favour of the other practice, the breath started becoming more frequent.
A lot of yoga praises long deep breathing. This has helped me in the initial stages of practice, but it seems my body had been somewhat rebelling against structured deep breathing in the last 2 years or so.
You've been very helpful and generous with sharing your time and experience, Christi. Many many thanks.
bhaktilove |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2014 : 3:07:19 PM
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Hi Bhaktilove,
You're welcome.
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2014 : 4:34:21 PM
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2014 : 1:13:22 PM
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| Hi Christi, thank you for your answer (post May 30). Still is not clear to me what an "energetic practice" is. Asana is more grounding, if I understand you well. Would you call pranayama an energetic practice? And meditation? Sorry, I probably ask very basic questions... |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2014 : 4:29:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Hi Christi, thank you for your answer (post May 30). Still is not clear to me what an "energetic practice" is. Asana is more grounding, if I understand you well. Would you call pranayama an energetic practice? And meditation? Sorry, I probably ask very basic questions...
Hi Ecdyonurus,
Energetic practices in yoga are practices designed to awaken kundalini and expand it through the body. So pranayama practices are energetic practices, as are mudras, bandhas, kriyas and certain visualization techniques. Things such as running would not be called an energetic practice, even though it is very energetic! So it is a specific use of language.
Meditation tends not to be referred to as an energetic practice, although some forms of meditation could be, for example meditation practices which involve advanced visualizations or certain powerful mantras.
Hope that helps.
Christi |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2014 : 12:05:58 AM
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| Hi Christi, that helps - thank you! |
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flexibility of practices
