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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
 Posted - May 27 2014 : 05:54:25 AM
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Namaste friends,
I love to sing kirtan to Indian deities, I love Sufi music as well (praising Allah), I am a Truth seeker, I love Beauty, Love by itself is an Ishta as I wish to be loving towards all I encounter as much as possible.
In short: I have accummulated many Ishta's....  (including Krishna, Shiva, Saraswati, Shakti, Lakshmi, saintly people and their teachings, Love, Truth, Beauty, Peace, etc.)
Is it preferable to choose one Ishta compared to moving from one Ishta to another depending on one's momentary inclination? Would it be better if I chose one and favour that one as much as possible?
Please share your wisdom. Thank you! 
bhaktilove
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Edited by - bhaktilove on May 27 2014 05:55:50 AM |
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Ayiram
88 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2014 : 06:28:23 AM
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Hey bhaktilove,
welcome!
what do all of your Ishtas have in common? 
Love, isn´t it?. 
This is not something you intellectually "choose", it´s something you feel drawn towards to or not... So, don´t worry, it´s all good!
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Edited by - Ayiram on May 27 2014 06:29:21 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 02:49:18 AM
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Hey Ayiram,
Thanks a lot.
Yes, Love is in all of them and I agree that it just happens beyond intellectual choice That's a wise observation!
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2014 : 03:09:27 AM
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Hello maheswari,
Thank you for bringing me to this very beautiful lesson on bhakti.
And thanks yogani for writing it!
quote:
A chosen ideal (...) can be a blend of ideals, such as the icons and ideals of our religion mixed with inquiry, affirmation and discrimination.
Yes, this is exactly my experience!
quote:
And we will carry these through life, even as our ideal expands as we undergo the inner purification and opening associated with the ongoing process of human spiritual transformation.
Let's how this expansion unfolds
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AviC
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2014 : 2:11:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bhaktilove
In short: I have accummulated many Ishta's.... (including Krishna, Shiva, Saraswati, Shakti, Lakshmi, saintly people and their teachings, Love, Truth, Beauty, Peace, etc.)
Is it preferable to choose one Ishta compared to moving from one Ishta to another depending on one's momentary inclination? Would it be better if I chose one and favour that one as much as possible?
Bhakti Love,
I searched a long time to find my ishta. While I was searching I felt resonance with many different images, names, and conceptions of the divine before I finally settled on one divine form as my Ishta. I have found that since making a committment to a single ishta my bhakti practice has deepened considerably. I think it increases the single-pointedness of bhakti concentration.
It's similar to when you meditate on a mantra or an object like your breathing. If you keep switching the object you're using from one sit to the next, this is good for developing a broader mindfulness but it is less good for developing single-pointed concentration. Similarly, if you are always switching your Ishta based on momentary whims then the bhakti concentration can't deepen very much into single-pointed concentration.
This doesn't mean that your ishta can't be a complex entity. It can combine different forms of the same deity, for example, and may include many stories and mythologies about the deity. Or if you are working with a more abstract ishta, like a principle or abstract ideal, it can be a complex and nuanced ideal (think how complex is the Buddhist ideal of enlightenment) . However, for the sake of developing bhakti concentration and cultivating intense longing for your ideal, I have found that it helps to conceptualize the ishta as a single entity or abstract goal rather than many entities. Let your desire and longing have something simple to focus on: a symbol or image and a mantra. Then allow your love to grow towards this focus. Look upon the focus as if it really were the ideal and imagine that you are desperately in love with it (even while intellectually knowing that the external focus is only a symbol and not literally the ideal itself).
That said, you can`t rush the trying things out stage. It took me about three years of searching to find my ishta and another six months of worshipping this deity before I developed faith and certainty that this was truly my chosen ideal. Even now, I have little doubts from time to time, or I'll feel momentarily drawn to another deity. However, in my moments of greatest clarity, I know who my true beloved is and I try to remember this when doubts arise. It's just like a man who loves his wife dearly but is tempted from time to time by other women. He is not unfaithful so long as he remembers his love for his wife in those moments of temptation. At a much later stage of the spiritual path, when one has already had many profound God-realizations through one's own ishta, then one can work on trying to know God through all other ideals (as Ramakrishna did). But trying to do this prematurely before actually realizing much through one's own ishta will only result in the energies of bhakti becoming scattered.
That said, my ishta does evolve as Yogani mentioned. I continue to have creative insights into the mythology of my ishta and new facets and divine names surface from time to time in my practice. This keeps the relationship fresh, keeps bhakti from becoming mechanical. Yet, this evolution doesn't feel like a change in ishta, it's just a matter of becoming more intimate with my one Beloved. Whereas before, when I was in the dating stage, I had major changes of divine form that clearly represented different ideals.
Best of luck in your search. I hope this is a helpful perspective.
Avi |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2014 : 01:09:29 AM
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Dear bhaktilove,
Our ishta is personal for each of us, and evolves along with our own growing understanding of God. Now, for me theologically, God is One: "same Guy/Person, different costumes," and I recognize the Divine in the various mythologies. But as AviC said, it's best to have some focus, and therefore I would not recommend "momentary inclination," at least not on the yogic path. There are other traditions which do; for example, I have Wiccan friends who work with and celebrate different deities depending on the seasons as well as the specific circumstances of their life and their needs at that particular time (the deities managing different departments of life). Some Hindus do likewise. But in yoga we want to develop deep roots so that our focused bhakti can grow and blossom in our own unique way.
For me personally, my ishta has evolved from Jesus, whom I knew as a child from the religious mythology and later rejected due to being forced to attend fundie schools which completely turned me off to Him for the next 13 years. Actually I was an atheist for a while. Then in college I met the Hare Krishnas and it was a huge revelation to me that God could be sweet and charming and playful, and I was smitten. It was because of Krishna that I was able as an adult to appreciate the concept of a personal God, and one Who really loved us. So I came back to Jesus through Krishna! Initially I had some conflict because of the deeply ingrained Judeo-Christian "no other gods" thing, but knowing that they are all One, gradually my ishta evolved into a kind of "Cosmic Christ," the Eternal Word, the Om Who manifests as the Avatar/s.
Of course, in terms of visualization it can be a bit tricky because the "historical Jesus" people describe a short, dark, swarthy man (Palestinian), whereas my Catholic pictures show a guy who looks a little bit like Robert Plant. And what about Krishna, an Indian guy, is He literally blue  But these considerations all became irrelevant as my ishta sort of morphed into a golden, radiant, gorgeous Being with a blue aura.
As I type this, I am looking at a picture on my desk of a "yogi Jesus" sitting in lotus posture, on a lotus, holding up His hand in blessing, the Sacred Heart peeking through his Buddhist robe. Somebody sent it to me on Facebook and I don't know who the artist is, but He sure is beautiful.
Anyway, it's not as if you have to make a conscious "choice" right now. As Ayiram said, you will probably feel drawn to your ishta. You could pray to that Love in general, "Please manifest to me in the Form that I can relate to You best." Maybe you will be blessed with a dream, or come across a picture in a book, that will especially call to you. The important thing is that you already have that bhakti, that Love, and the desire to know the Divine more deeply.  |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 09:10:51 AM
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Dear Radharani and AviC,
I am addressing the two of you together as your replies have a similar feeling and my answer to both of you is mostly the same.
Thank you for sharing how your bhakti practice evolved so beautifully. It is inspiring and heartwarming
If I had to define my Ishta in more unified way, at this stage I would feel it to be a little more of an abstract concept like Universal Love.
The reason why I am attracted to all these different deities is that they can all bring me in a state of some feeling of this Love and sometimes one feels more appropriate than the other with the changes occuring in my body-mind system and the environment I find myself in.
Say, I visit a Muslim country or a Buddhist country or a Hindu community. In each of those places it will be easier to adapt the personalized Ishta according to the place I find myself in. It fits the circumstances well to have this flexibility.
For one pointed concentration I practice a specific kind of meditation with a neutral object (breath and/or the feel at a specific area of the body).
I can see that it may be very beneficial to practice this focus also with respect to a chosen ideal. Do you feel Universal Love manifested in infinite ways as too scattered an ideal for this purpose of single pointedness in bhakti practice?
Thanks for sharing your paths, thoughts, experiences
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Edited by - bhaktilove on Jun 02 2014 09:38:58 AM |
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AviC
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 11:52:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bhaktilove
For one pointed concentration I practice a specific kind of meditation with a neutral object (breath and/or the feel at a specific area of the body).
I can see that it may be very beneficial to practice this focus also with respect to a chosen ideal. Do you feel Universal Love manifested in infinite ways as too scattered an ideal for this purpose of single pointedness in bhakti practice?
Hey Bhaktilove,
There's a few things you need to decide for yourself. Do you want to cultivate a highly personal type relationship like that between two individuals or more of a general feeling of connection to an impersonal loving force? If the latter, then I think the concept of universal love will work fine, although, it would help to have specific names that you call this by to use for mantra, and a visual symbol that you use consistently to embody the concept, which can be used in visual meditation, and placed on the altar of your meditation space.
If you want a more personal type relationship like the bhavas/rasas described in the Bhakti Tradition, it is necessary to imagine the concept of universal love as a personified being. This person doesn't necessarily have to have a body or form. Jews and Muslims, for example, worship God as a person without a body or form, instead they use the spoken names, and the written calligraphy of the names as a focus for concentration. The key thing is that to have a personal relationship, you must think of of God as a person, not simply as a universal force or abstract concept. If you aren't interested in these sort of relationships then it's not an issue.
Regarding the question of adaptability to worshipping in different religious settings. The theory behind the ishta, as I understand it, is that God can manifest in many different forms according to the needs and desires of each devotee. God doesn't have a single true form, so there are no qualities we can attribute to God that aren't already some specific way that God manifests. Even universal love is a specific attribute that God is manifesting for the sake of us humans. Yogis who focus on God as the personification of pure non-dual awareness, for example, might not include the concept of universal love in their ishta.
So whatever you decide on for your ishta (if you decide to pick a personal manifestation of God), you can still worship in Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist countries, realizing that the forms of the divine worshipped there are ultimately the same God as the form of the divine you have chosen as your ishta. For example, I have prayed in Jewish synagogues, Christian Churches, and a Hare Krishna temple, among other places of worship. When I pray, I know that whatever names or images of God that are being used in the service are manifestations of the same God who manifests for me as my ishta. With this sort of thinking, I feel that there is no problem worshipping my own specific ishta a variety of different religious settings.
Hope that helps, I'm enjoying this discussion and learning a lot from it. Thanks to Radharani for your interesting post.
Avi |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2014 : 11:59:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bhaktilove
Do you feel Universal Love manifested in infinite ways as too scattered an ideal for this purpose of single pointedness in bhakti practice?
Dear bhaktilove,
What I feel about it is really not important; what matters is how it feels to YOU. If this Universal Love in the abstract works for you, then great.
Note, however, that this is a slightly different question than what you asked originally, namely: "moving from one ishta to another depending on one's momentary inclination?"
Of course, most yogis do share the understanding, as you expressed, that it's really all One Love w/ infinite expressions, and thus we are able to relate to and appreciate those various expressions which manifest in different cultures and environments in which we may find ourselves socially. It's nice to have that sense of universality. But then in our own personal practice we also have that special ishta with Whom we relate the most.
But, there are no hard and fast "rules" here. Like I said, whatever works for you! and it may well change and evolve over time.
Much Love to you!
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2014 : 02:56:47 AM
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| Hey Avi, it appears our posts crossed in the ether! I see that we made some of the same points. |
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2014 : 04:25:56 AM
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Hey AviC,
Thanks a lot for your sharings. This post on factors to consider in choosing one's Ishta is very enlightening.
There are two strong forces acting through this body-mind complex. One is rather abstract and impersonal; it gives peace and serenity. The other is emotional; it gives joy and happiness.
I am attracted both to the impersonal beingness of the Divine as to the warmth of feeling of the personified Ishta. My limited experience so far has been that to live and act fully in the world in a pleasant way the latter aspect (love as a feeling) seems utmost important. As is the seeming aloofness of abstracting from even the most refined feelings for deeper wisdom.
I enjoyed reading your insights and the considerations you gave me. Time's reflection God's hints may quietly guide me further.
bhaktilove
quote:
Originally posted by AviC
quote:
Originally posted by bhaktilove
For one pointed concentration I practice a specific kind of meditation with a neutral object (breath and/or the feel at a specific area of the body).
I can see that it may be very beneficial to practice this focus also with respect to a chosen ideal. Do you feel Universal Love manifested in infinite ways as too scattered an ideal for this purpose of single pointedness in bhakti practice?
Hey Bhaktilove,
There's a few things you need to decide for yourself. Do you want to cultivate a highly personal type relationship like that between two individuals or more of a general feeling of connection to an impersonal loving force? If the latter, then I think the concept of universal love will work fine, although, it would help to have specific names that you call this by to use for mantra, and a visual symbol that you use consistently to embody the concept, which can be used in visual meditation, and placed on the altar of your meditation space.
If you want a more personal type relationship like the bhavas/rasas described in the Bhakti Tradition, it is necessary to imagine the concept of universal love as a personified being. This person doesn't necessarily have to have a body or form. Jews and Muslims, for example, worship God as a person without a body or form, instead they use the spoken names, and the written calligraphy of the names as a focus for concentration. The key thing is that to have a personal relationship, you must think of of God as a person, not simply as a universal force or abstract concept. If you aren't interested in these sort of relationships then it's not an issue.
Regarding the question of adaptability to worshipping in different religious settings. The theory behind the ishta, as I understand it, is that God can manifest in many different forms according to the needs and desires of each devotee. God doesn't have a single true form, so there are no qualities we can attribute to God that aren't already some specific way that God manifests. Even universal love is a specific attribute that God is manifesting for the sake of us humans. Yogis who focus on God as the personification of pure non-dual awareness, for example, might not include the concept of universal love in their ishta.
So whatever you decide on for your ishta (if you decide to pick a personal manifestation of God), you can still worship in Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist countries, realizing that the forms of the divine worshipped there are ultimately the same God as the form of the divine you have chosen as your ishta. For example, I have prayed in Jewish synagogues, Christian Churches, and a Hare Krishna temple, among other places of worship. When I pray, I know that whatever names or images of God that are being used in the service are manifestations of the same God who manifests for me as my ishta. With this sort of thinking, I feel that there is no problem worshipping my own specific ishta a variety of different religious settings.
Hope that helps, I'm enjoying this discussion and learning a lot from it. Thanks to Radharani for your interesting post.
Avi
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bhaktilove
Philippines
13 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2014 : 04:26:44 AM
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quote:
Note, however, that this is a slightly different question than what you asked originally
Yes
I think I'm engaging in refining and redefining so that I can go on without choosing In some mind perspective choosing appears like losing. It seems that choice is mostly relevant if one chooses the depiction of a traditional Ishta (linked to one tradition or the other). That could be limiting if Ishta will be said to be this and at the same time it will not be that.
The matter of choice may become utterly irrelevant when the Ishta is truly personal and ever expanding. Then it can emcompass All, ever enlarging in unlimited ways.
quote:
Much Love to you!
Thank you and also to you Krishna's sweetly fragranced Love!
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2014 : 12:03:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bhaktilove
The matter of choice may become utterly irrelevant when the Ishta is truly personal and ever expanding. Then it can encompass All, ever enlarging in unlimited ways.
Thank you and also to you Krishna's sweetly fragranced Love!
Exactly! and thank you very much. |
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AviC
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2014 : 8:58:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
Hey Avi, it appears our posts crossed in the ether! I see that we made some of the same points.
Yes, we seem to be on a similar wavelength on this topic |
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Ishta(s?)
