Health, Energy, Sensitivity - AYP Public Forum

Canada
687 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2014 : 11:21:59 PM

Could it be ecstatic conductivity, or some form of energetic conductivity that’s been aggravating my state of health, balance and well-being for well over a decade now?

This is an idea brought up by a friend in an email conversation who pointed out some of my symptoms resemble kundalini even though I don’t ever recall any experience of the sort, so in the interest of being thorough in ruling this out or getting at least more clues as to the source of my severe ongoing troubles, I’d like to tap into the accumulated wisdom and experience here at AYP to see what you think.

I know a more definitive and qualified yes or no answer might not be realistic when dealing with such complexity and subtleties. At this point, any little bit helps.

This is being posted in ‘not related to AYP’ since the troubles began a long time prior to transitioning to AYP exclusively. Trying to keep it all to the point even if key details need to be spelled out. Please ask if vague, or email for more details.

1 & 2. Began with a sense of disconnection, of witnessing, leading to confusion about my self-concepts and self-discovery in mid-teens. Then the feeling short of breath symptoms crept in, as if my overall well-being was being hindered by a general lack of energy.

A year or two later, after deciding to push harder in school by using more will power, more self-discipline, and testing the limits of brahmacharya or preservation, encountered burn-out quite suddenly. After-effect was onset of depression as my psyche’s resources seemed fully depleted, and trying to fight it resulted in a brief panic attack, which felt like my nervous system began frying itself and melting down which ceased immediately as I shifted my attention.

Took one month to recover on my own by doing nothing. Sense of low energy and feeling out of breath with mental and physical exertion continued, while learning to live in surrender mode so that if burnout happened again I’d know I’d have done everything humanly possible within my energy limits. Mood very strained for prolonged periods trying to cope with demands and my own high standards and achievements.

Isolated and brief incidents of feeling as if my heart has a hard time beating, like there’s an energy drain or depletion in the chest, like life force is drained. Continued low energy, like chronic fatigue but not physically, but on the psyche or ‘energetically,’ mixture of despair and dysthymia overlaid by boundless enthusiasm for freedom to discover, learn, and practice various spiritual disciplines in efforts to boost my energy and to uncover and resolve source of energy drain.

Periods of intermittent unexplainable energy depletions, usually with few or no other cold symptoms (sore throat, runny nose), each lasting on average 2 weeks.

Now more recently, heart-level depletions more severe and prolonged, aggravated by both mental and physical exertion of any kind. First long incident lasted less than 2 months, didn’t know if I’d ever recover. Second incident now was paired with minor cold symptoms and shows signs of improvement, but was just as severe in that it impairs even the most basic activities of daily living. Trying to do AYP or even basic meditation feels like suffocating and has to be put on pause during peaks.

2 & 8. Both. Unpredictable. Yes sleep is strongly affected or even blocked. One lead is exposure to cold temperatures. A second is vulnerability or complete intolerance to going to sleep late, where I don’t recharge no matter how long I manage to sleep. Another discovered from trial/error and observation over the years is excessive brahmacharya and tantra. These lead to a sense of energy, physical and mental coherence, but if prolonged past a 2-3 week window leads to burnout within one day seemingly equal in magnitude to sum of extra energy made available prior.

Perseverance with brahmacharya/tantra over the years, and especially AYP, helped those out a lot, however boundaries have become fuzzy and can no longer tell if they are affecting my quality of sleep (as they once did very strongly, and sometimes still do on occasion), or are somehow aggravating my body. I’d make this into a separate topic of its own but kept it here in point form to prevent overlaps.

3. I have no reason to believe it is kundalini, or overloads for that matter, since my AYP routine seems to have no impact on my symptoms, except for finding mild to moderate benefits from SBP, which happens to also be recommended to those with overloads or k symptoms. I noticed I tend to yawn sometimes (not always) in burnout recovery mode, and as well in SBP, which has been the only thing ever out of the many things I’ve tried, alongside good sleep schedule, to have any immediate positive impact.

Meditation and the AYP routine is also pure magic in its ability, unfailingly, to immediately turn around the worst of times, with the only exceptions being when feeling too low on ‘air’ or when heart-level depletion sets in too strongly, both of which also act as limiting factors to the intensity or duration of sittings.

4. Various styles of meditation, trance/LD/phasing, taijiquan, qigong, various forms of energy work, contemplation, inquiry, conscious living, etc., and now AYP twice daily exclusively since 3+ years to date. Overall, around 14 years on and off in long cycles depending on time constraints.

5. I consider myself stable, though desperately wishing on a lot more sensitivity/inner sensuality.

6. If it is one, no, cause I’ve never taken any and don’t plan on it.

7. No, though this low energy trouble is traumatising in itself in how severe, persevering, and unpredictable it can be, and its strain on my ability to cope.

8. Yes it does, but it’s become harder to tell what’s moderate and what’s excessive, and how it really factors in overall. Early on, it would block my ability to fall asleep completely, and any sleep would be very light and unrefreshing. I still wonder about its impact on sleep cycles and the body’s ability to recharge, something sleep researchers should be able to answer easily enough if they account for individual values.

9. Home cooked, simple, nutritious; past few months on a very restricted diet to try ruling out potential food allergens.

10. Yes, mainly jogging, sometimes biking, and work around the house or wherever.

11. Yes, steadily increasing thanks to AYP, and always looking to cultivate bhakti in every activity but in a way that’s natural.

12. It’s complicated and I’d rather answer it privately if it can make a difference.

13. Yes, a few times. Everything checked out fine, and only recently there’s one sign of possibly serious physical stress which I believe is an impact of whatever’s affecting me and not necessarily a cause in itself. Again, I’d rather answer the details in private.

14. Tried many things, still considering my options, currently on the diet and some other treatments while struggling to cope through the low times. Ongoing effort to push my sleep schedule earlier and earlier though my mind tends to focus on its own, partly a learned coping habit and a tendency hard to resist. Visualizing as a way to scatter and disengage focus doesn’t always work. AYP helps a lot in this regard prior to sleep. I easily lose track of time, or am oblivious to its passage. Time feels like it’s in fast forward generally, especially when pondering on anything, though bioclock is very strong and all too easy to disrupt.

Energy sensations: have an automatic yoga tendency of uddiyana bandha, as if my mind is trying to draw something, which sometimes make me light headed/dizzy very briefly if I follow through, crown and third eye sometimes tingle in practice, occasional and fairly brief enjoyable sensations in muladhara during DM or SY depending on natural stillness of mind and surrender, and nearly continuous enjoyable sensations in hands, feet, perineum that sometimes amplify in various yoga postures/mudras/bandhas, though the root can feel a bit draining whenever it’s more responsive.

846 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2014 : 11:34:17 PM

Sounds familiar, Haha.

Well, I pretty much look and feel dead when in severe overload, which can happen quite suddenly and sometimes for no apparent reason.

Sometimes tired beyond understanding, the weird heart stuff and inability to breathe.

Overall, I'm pretty good these days but only because the nadis are sufficiently purified. It was ten years of scorched earth before that. Burning, buzzing, vibrating, scorching, singeing, feeling crazy, dissociation, stuffy intellect, temporary loss of eyesight, oozing, anxiety, numbness, panic, loss of sense of self, severe ennui, chronic depression, tremors, seizures, inability to function as a normal person. All and more without a doubt due to excess ecstatic conductivity.

But then again, its not the ecstatic conductivity, or prana, at all. Its the prana moving through impurities that creates the symptoms. And once you pop out the other side what could be better? After all, you can be awakened with no ecstasy. So how much more interesting to live in freedom with massive amounts of prana coursing through the nervous system? At least, there's the silver lining;)

Dogboy

USA
2242 Posts

Posted - Apr 18 2014 : 11:16:29 AM

Can you be awakened with no ecstasy? I've been wondering about that lately...

846 Posts

Posted - Apr 18 2014 : 3:36:38 PM

Yes of course dogboy. There are several people I know that are awakened with no ecstacy. Freedom is living without attachments, not ecstacy.

The ecstatic part is not necessary but it yields a much fuller experience.

Ecstatic radiance is empowering. Inner stillness is peaceful. Many schools of Buddhism don't do any practices for ecstatic cultivation but you can become awakened just the same. Ecstacy is the tantric path.

yogani

USA
5201 Posts

Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 11:51:22 AM

Hi Aum:

From the tremendous energy you radiate for helping others, it seems a paradox that you have experienced so much depletion over the years. Or perhaps therein lies a clue to what is going on? Perhaps you have expected more of yourself for many years than your neurobiology has been able to deliver without experiencing over-stimulation and depletion. Have you self-paced in your daily life? As you know, self-pacing is a cornerstone of the AYP approach, not only for practices, but for life in general. If lifestyle is the issue then that is where some relief may be found. If you'd like to explore it as it relates to question 12, feel free to contact me via email.

Regarding whether it is kundalini, it is only a word, a label, with so many interpretations. Kundalini is energy, generally regarded to be on the move, so theoretically any energy imbalance could be regarded to be kundalini related. Of course, the health professions may have other names for the same symptoms. What is important is getting at root causes and finding a balance. It seems you have been doing very well in that. Bravo!

Yet, you still feel a depletion and that something important is missing. Perhaps that expectation is part of the issue. Again, it may get back to lifestyle and expectations there. Hard to tell with the information you have provided so far.

On the other hand, you could be living through a long term kundalini scenario like tonightsthenight described. In that case, knowledge of the fact is important, along with acceptance of the process and taking measures to navigate it as smoothly as possible.

It is interesting that you are able to engage in spiritual practices fairly aggressively without apparent overload. On the other hand, do keep in mind that aggressive practice can have delayed effects, so there could be some unseen compounding of cause and effect going on. A steady daily practice, not too aggressive, combined with normal daily activity, can lead to steadier energy and emotions down the line.

Well, just a few thoughts based on what you have shared. Your contributions in the community are much appreciated. Do continue to take good care of yourself. Wishing you all the best on your continuing path!

The guru is in you.

PS: An interesting aside -- History is full of examples of those with handicaps who did more for humanity than those who were easily sailing through life. Life is filled with challenges, and it is these challenges that often inspire us to a higher level of achievement. We could even say that the purpose of incarnation is to inspire us to awaken. The limitations of life in time and space, and the fact of our physical mortality are daunting challenges to say the least. So what to do? See beyond. Cultivate and let go into what is beyond all that -- the eternal pure bliss consciousness that is our essential nature. Then we are in the best position to function as a flow of divine love in the world. That is not an ego experience (we can't own it), and there are no guarantees about personal health, longevity, ecstasy, or anything else. But it is freedom from suffering, and that is something that is open to us all, regardless of our perceived limitations. It is the limitations themselves that spur us onward!

Will Power

Spain
415 Posts

Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 2:32:31 PM

On ecstasy (also called bliss almost everywhere except in AYP):
http://www.gardenofthebeloved.com/

The fact that in many traditions ecstasy is not cultivated doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or that it mustn't happen. Ecstay has happened even to Zen practicioners. Of course it won't probably happen if you think that there is nothing to be done and there is no need for seating practices. But work must be done.

@Aum Naturel, have you seen an homeopath or an acupuncturist?

Have you tried the Microcosmic Orbit or Vase breathing to build energy in the Lower Dan Tien? Or perhaps Navi Kriya, not AYP style but as some Kriya Yoga teachers recommend (where your attention goes some time to your navel or Lower Dan Tien, and not like Ashok Singh teaches it, because he skips it and tells you to go only to the third chakra).

If you practice the microcosmic orbit, at the end of the exhalation at the lower dan tien, do you relax it as if you were doing an inverse Kegel? It is like trying to poop, but applied in the navel.

At the end of your routine do you practice breathing in your Lower Dan Tien and practice the taoist inner smile there, or do you carry the energy there at the end of the practice?

Do you practice Moola Bandha both during inhalation and exhalation? I strongly don't recommend it.

Do you practice the horse pose at the end to recirculate the energy to the body?

With the above counsels I stopped feeling tired, specially my legs, after the yoga routine. Previously I needed to recharge while I lyed down after the routine to breath in the legs or lower Dan Tien to finish feeling deplete.

To be honest, without any of these practices, the AYP routine is incomplete IMHO

846 Posts

Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 3:03:54 PM

Aum,

Rereading your post, your final thoughts re muladhara feeling draining.

It should feel grounding. And maybe not energizing but like its supplying sustenance. Big and bulky and slow. Maybe other things of course.

But draining does not sound right.

Have you tried balancing prana and apana in pranayama? This practice works here. Focus on the lower back ribs and apana on inhalation while focusing on the peak of the sternum and prana on exhalation. Of course,not ayp.

Hope you feel better and more stable soon!

Canada
687 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2014 : 12:14:00 AM

Tonightsthenight, thanks for sharing your symptoms, and sorry to hear about such a harrowing experience. Looking back, there were isolated periods, mainly at night trying to fall asleep, of “feeling crazy, dissociation, stuffy intellect…severe ennui…inability to function as a normal person” but none of the other more physical symptoms. Included is/was a state of shock about the condition of the world, the nature of existence as it appears as both limitless unfathomable potential mixed with despair and dysphoria. Resorted to self-therapy, inquiry, and introspection during the day to calm things down at night to be able to sleep.

It would be a big relief just knowing that this is a process, especially one involving purification and energy, but unfortunately cannot be certain.

Q. Is there any way to find out with greater certainty whether energy/purification or even kundalini is involved?

Re: muladhara drain occurs during paschimottanasana head to both knees, due to the effect being overly physical. During practice otherwise it is indeed enjoyable, energizing, and entices/rewards any practices that seem to amplify it any tiny bit.

Re: TTN’s prana/apana method, will try it a few times and let you know, though I’m not exactly sensitive to energy/effects.

Yogani, thank you for your reply. Have had instant attraction to all things categorized as spiritual, and various practices have had all-round benefits despite these low-energy troubles creeping in to create self-confusion and unpredictable cycles of strain to the point of breakdown. That’s accurate about my expectations, self-understanding, neurobiological limits; being forced to cope in witness mode makes me look to others as a way to understand, and so far the discovery is that I’m definitely struggling, at times well above what’s average, and for reasons I still can’t explain or diagnose to be able to take direct steps towards healing or coping more effectively. I have not self-paced daily life adequately, but it is certainly on the list of priorities still left to try, and try again. Chicritter’s post was similar to what I had in mind, and the AYP retreat certainly confirmed that and more. I will definitely follow up on lifestyle and expectation issues as I’ve read these can be major sources of depletion, especially when not addressed over the long term. Thank you for highlighting these key points, and the clarification on a possible kundalini scenario.

Will Power, yes, apparently obstructions seem clear now as my system’s very responsive due to spiritual practices, except large intestine meridian consistently showing up, sometimes stomach meridian, and also heart chakra-related channel blockage now and then. Can’t afford treatment so have to cut it short.

I’ve done small circulation/MCO/cavity focus, reverse breathing, dantian focus, energy raising exercises in the past, now I do mainly only AYP. I do solar centering, and plexus should be connected to lower elixir field so I imagine it’s the same end result; can’t sense any difference either way. DM feels quite enjoyable or even blissful most of the time and so has the inner smile effect on its own for me. I don’t feel prana/chi, much less excess amounts or flows anywhere at end of practice, but I repeat some asanas to help legs and back after the sitting. Yes, I prefer mulabandha at both ends of SBP over asvini. You do mulabandha just once? Is horse pose like embracing the tree? I’ve considered brief standing qigong, but AYP’s already time consuming and intense on its own, and last time I followed Lam Kam Chuen’s routine to the letter for a month or more, 8 brocades preparation and all, I’ve had mild but definite pressure in my head lasting a whole week, and by this post, such symptoms should be explored with great care. I feel much safer with AYP than other systems that are still teacher-bound and mostly hidden in secrecy, vague, incomplete, or cryptic. Thanks for sharing the modifications that have worked for you.

I’ve picked out some symptoms through this non-AYP related K forum that resemble my own in effort to distinguish health vs purification:

Full scale chest/Anahata blockage
- Some symptoms match, recalled them well before AYP, but in isolated incidents; only soon after replying have they become a major issue.

Kundalini and chakras? Strange contradiction
- “Flu-like symptoms” is a definite match as all too often I go through these with minimal or no other cold symptoms, recover without needing anything, yet they can linger for 2 weeks or more and be very exhausting and depleting.

Scared! Help now please! waiting for you
- “doing a basic tai chi practice…felt like my heart was about to stop”

Breathing
- “experience like a 'bottle neck'” (uddiyana bandha tendency), “At times it is really difficult to breathe and my breathing slows down a lot. I have to consciously make more of an effort to breathe too sometimes.”

My negative symptom retreat disaster
- “like I couldn't breath…Had to go to the bathroom a lot to pee…The heart area is more free flowing now.”
- not a shared symptom, but interesting observation: “I'm unable to pack anymore energy in my naval- no more heat. it just rebounds up through into my heart”

How to know if its a Medical or a Kundalini issue
“started to feel lethargic and tired…In the past 2 years, I have been suffering from chronic fatigue for days and total loss of interest in anything. I have very tiring and uncomfortable sensations…My problem is that I am not able to figure out whether these are kundalini symptoms or health issues.”
- re: “Kundalini is one of those things that does not give a clear picture but can mimic many symptoms of a sickness” “don't pay attention to the crown sensations since it is an overload symptom” (minor crown and third eye sensations but mainly only during practices and not always)

Very grateful for the responses so far. Any bit more insight into the matter is greatly appreciated, even if only to verify what others have said.

846 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2014 : 3:28:05 PM

Hi Aum,

No need to feel sorry, all is as it must be. Sleep time is generally the worst time, another clue. I have strong memories of confronting the paradox of eternity and temporality within the mind as an adolescent. Scariest thing I've ever experienced and very traumatic. I'm pretty sure these experiences led to lits of resistance to k and made it harder in the years to come.
So even if you don't have all the energy sptoms, there are many clues that k is behind a lot of this for you as it was for me.

Cheering for you:)

lalow33

USA
966 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2014 : 5:49:23 PM

Hi Aum,

Did not know you were having difficulties. Can you tell us about how often these down cycles occur?

I came to AYP with fibromyalgia and energy imbalances and have had to self-pace even though symptoms were prior to AYP.

One thing I would recommend (solely based on my own experience) is if the breathing difficulties return, take a look at the solar centering. See if it creates the habit in daily life. I've found,in my limited experience, that repeated attention in a blocked area is not good.

Canada
687 Posts

Posted - Apr 20 2014 : 10:27:50 PM

Tonightsthenight :) interesting we share that observation about sleep. It has been an ongoing issue, inability to scatter my mind/focus as to be able to fall asleep deeply enough. Coincidentally, sleep time and quality makes a huge difference to energy levels and mood overall (as I predict would happen to any person following chronic sleep deprivation in combination with physical/mental exertion).

The best descriptions I've come across is from alchemical taoism, where it feels like the yi/intent/mind is constantly focused, maintaining shen/spirit coherence and active/outward, preventing its dissolution and natural cycling back into the body (bone marrow, or 'Hun sinking to the house of the liver to rest'). I've put this theory and matching observations out to someone, though they've discouraged me from considering it as thought it were too esoteric and advanced, but I now know better. If there is indeed kundalini, it would make sense for it to constantly keep intent focused, and upon relaxing trying to sleep for there to be a greater influx of K thus making me rebound out of sleep, or have shallow sleep. There are too many other observations that also fall in line, especially now that kundalini is under consideration as a potential instigating factor to this whole complicated cycle. Unknown to me, all the measures I've been taking have been remedial with the direct effect of creating a break so that I can recharge at night.

Ideally, there would be a direct way of disconnecting from this focus, of learning to let go of it to be able to deeply relax, nap, and sleep more deeply.

Lalow, it was a constant, like a depletion in the background. Sometimes it could be a full day of exhaustion with no apparent cause out of the blue. I've managed to cope by simply forgetting the incidents, trying to excuse them as 'colds' or some other rational explanation that could provide some sense of control, until it became too long, too out of proportion to what an average person would ever be faced with. This heart-level depletion seems to have no end. Interesting you mention solar centering specifically, as I've been speculating on it the past few sitting sessions that placing attention near a troubled spot can stagnate it, and even considered moving my rest point a bit lower, or just letting go of that practice temporarily. Then the crown and third eye sensations came up during that very practice, attracting my attention to them despite them being gentle and quite neutral, and so resumed it for a bit till they subsided. Definitely agree with your advice.

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Apr 21 2014 : 09:01:15 AM

Dear Aum,

So many here have responded with great insight. I have had many of the symptoms you describe, and relatively little of the "classic Kundalini" stuff.. I have, for the most part, given up on sleep. The body gets tired, the mind shuts down and yet, sleep (particularly deep, restful sleep) seems to be elusive. Some time ago, there was fatigue that was beyond anything I'd experienced as described here. It is increasingly unclear to me if "health" concerns are not really energy imbalances.

From what I've read and experienced, intense openings are not always intuitive. Invariably they are associated with movement of energy, either big and sudden as in the "classic" writings or insidious like in AYP, where they may be less noticeable. Either way, glandular and nervous systems do get bombarded. The autonomic nervous system and the glandular system work together, influencing each other from moment to moment. Over the long term, yogic practices increase parasympathetic activity with related hormonal effects (decreased stress hormones, etc) that lead to all the beneficial effects we all know and desire. But, energetic imbalances from practices, overload, life-openings mismatch, specific blockages being hit by energy movements - all this results in paradoxical increase in sympathetic activity. As a result, the hormonal system goes into overdrive, particularly the adrenals.. There is a lot of hype about adrenal fatigue, not validated in the medical literature. Is it possible that overload causes this? Seems likely if we consider how meditative/energetic practices work on the body. I do not think that the adrenals could ever literally "burn out"; the body is miraculous in the number of checks there are against such things.. Temporarily however, it is possible to put the glandular system in overdrive and we would possibly see all of these vague symptoms.. The said checks (feedback to the pituitary, the master gland) would prevent overt signs and symptoms of a specific glandular issue, at least significant enough to warrant medical treatment.

In terms of Ayurveda, energy imbalances result in big time vata-pitta imbalance, particularly in those that are already of that prakruthi. Movement is vata, energy is heat, pitta. In combination and out of balance, they can create havoc, that is never picked up on medical tests. Two years ago, I had a big opening accompanied with severe, blinding headaches and a whole body rash. Medical tests did not reveal anything. I walked into the office of my friend, an Ayurvedic physician, and she gasped looking at rash. She gave me some strong vata-pitta reducing herbs and within a week, the symptoms were reduced. Some adaptogens, like Ashwagandha work well to keep the balance and prevent the adrenal "stress", IMHO. However, it does not work immediately, but the effects build up over weeks/months. Shatavari is a cooling herb that counters pitta and is beneficial for any hormonal "up and down" cycle. Eating "heavy" may not work if the foods chosen continue to aggravate the imbalance. Some exercises (like too much of aerobic activity) tend to increase vata and make things worse.. It is interesting that although Ayurveda is the medical aspect of yoga, the effects of Kundalini and it's management are not widely known among Ayurvedic practitioners or addressed in textbooks..

Finally, I've found that a critical factor for all this was to just relax, once all the measures were taken to bring the body back to balance. It too shall pass. Tantric teachings are so wonderful in this - nothing is rejected or pushed away, nothing is transmuted into anything, negative is not used to look at positive, etc.. Shakti is honored in all her forms, including this. Surrendering to her is the only way (for me at least). Inner silence is the greatest treatment.

Hope this is of some help.

Much love and hugs.

Canada
687 Posts

Posted - May 14 2014 : 9:48:35 PM

Hi Kami,

very much appreciate the feedback. I doubt I am the only practitioner who has come across such specific symptoms and sensitivities. I can confirm your insight into certain markers that have indeed shown up (details in pm) and that I am still following through with. I will certainly put the basics on Ayurveda on the to-do list as they could complement the previously mentioned Taoist theory. It would be something to try, well worth exploring.

quote:
Originally posted by kami
the mind remained still and free and joyful - contradictions galore. I could not sleep for absolutely no reason - no anxieties or dreams or worries; just the body not resting [..] At the time I didn't know what he meant, since I had stopped all practices.

This is my ongoing problem as of late, exactly as you describe it, which goes back a long time. Combine this with a very sensitive bioclock and it's like going against the waves more than surfing with them. One major culprit has been and continues to be brahmacharya, and it's more than not being able to fall asleep, but to actually sleep deeply enough. I don't know what it must be like to be missing delta wave sleep consistently, but it must be similar to what I'm experiencing and have been for a long time intermittently.

quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Started getting really weird and overwhelming emotions coming up. Strange feelings of apathy. Started to feel unimaginably fatigued.

Yes, and although learning over time to witness them, disconnect their self-perpetuating patterns, and take the edge off such as when needing to sleep, they are still in the background somehow - and no, it doesn't feel like any external source. I have read somewhere the saying that some problems don't always have solutions, but they can be outgrown. I always carry the hope that spiritual practices can make that happen as fast as possible, and so far it has been of great help.

2111 Posts

Posted - Jun 16 2014 : 6:43:12 PM

Interesting thread.

quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
repeated attention in a blocked area is not good.

Can't resist adding an observation.

The repeated attention doesn't just worsen the block. It IS the block. Without attention there is no block....just akasha, or empty space. All the myriad blocks and boundaries (without exception!) that we perceive are just the result of the mind's habitual drawing of certain artificial distinctions/boundaries within a field of infinite emptiness.

To go one step further (caution: spoilers!), that's what the "me" idea is: a set of arbitrary distinctions, boundaries....blocks. What I am is nothing but blocks. If I surrender my separate me-ness, then what's blocked? Take ME out of the equation, and there are no blocks whatsoever (and vice versa). The dirty windshield which gets cleaned by sadhana does not leave a sparkly clear Jim. There's no such thing, because Jim-ness is the dust. No dust = no Jim.

Jim is is everything that is not let go of, not let to god. A set of entrenched mental habits of division. Blocks!

This isn't just intellectualism. It's helpful to understand that when we talk about blocks as if they're bunions we must slice off in order to leave a more perfect me, that's wrong. "I" am, inherently, that which resists the flow. I am the block and the block is me, and there's nothing to do but Let Go. All the way.

One problem with modern day yoga is that everyone thinks the narrator in their head is the witness, the atman, the capitalized Self. It's not. That dude's got to be let go of as well. Even the letter-goer!

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 16 2014 6:46:22 PM

lalow33

USA
966 Posts

Posted - Jun 17 2014 : 09:55:19 AM

Holy crap! I realized I've been doing breath meditation, spinal breathing, and probably asana wrong. Thanks Jim. I know you've said the same thing over and over. Something clicked.

Zanyan

USA
54 Posts

Posted - Jun 17 2014 : 4:23:21 PM

quote:
The repeated attention doesn't just worsen the block. It IS the block. Without attention there is no block....just akasha, or empty space. All the myriad blocks and boundaries (without exception!) that we perceive are just the result of the mind's habitual drawing of certain artificial distinctions/boundaries within a field of infinite emptiness.

Yes. It took me *years* of focusing on blocks (one in particular) to finally realize this. You've described the truth of it beautifully and well, Jim.

Laura

Purohit

India
43 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2014 : 05:30:28 AM

(The dirty windshield which gets cleaned by sadhana does not leave a sparkly clear Jim. There's no such thing, because Jim-ness is the dust. No dust = no Jim.

Jim is is everything that is not let go of, not let to god. A set of entrenched mental habits of division. Blocks!)

It has hit it on the spot here as well. Thanks, Jim.
I hope that this illumination sticks.

2111 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2014 : 11:23:11 AM

"It" can only stick personally, to this concept called Purohit. Why does emptiness need to be constantly known? Do you need to remember, in every moment, that your body is nearly entirely water? Would you be silly to put up sticky notes to constantly remind yourself? In the end, who cares what this Purohit project does or does not "know"?

Just stop straining. The problem is thinking stuff absolutely must change. Purohit can stay. It can all stay. It's fine as-is (and fine to add your part, too). Obsessive clenching at some idea of how it all needs to be (including/especially "reaching enlightenment") is the problem.

Knowing you're mostly water (or that everything's entirely space) is a useful therapeutic, nothing more, when the neurotic clench that is you (and here's where I have to note that it's me OR you so people don't get offended, though, really, it's obvious) clenches extra hard and makes itself feel uncomfortable. It's sort of like Purina Clench Chow...nutrients for thirsty clenches. Nothing more.

You don't have a block. You ARE a block. Let the whole project go (including the letter-goer)! Feel better? Awesome! Go eat a pizza, or play volleyball! All done! And do AYP so that remains a perspective you can return to when helpful. Remember, this perceptual move is not something most people can do (they're stuck/imprisoned). So that's your Budda-hood right there. Sorry it's not more impressive. It's such a puny thing that it's easy to miss!

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 18 2014 1:33:23 PM

2111 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2014 : 1:28:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
probably asana wrong.

Asana is the very clearest proof of what I'm saying. You try to touch your toes, but your hamstrings won't let you. Or so it seems. Yet if I were to shoot you in the head as you tried, your hands would very easily touch your toes as your corpse fell over! Your hamstrings would be as loose as a ballerina's!

Think through this imaginary gunshot asana practice. It will tell you where the resistance - the block - truly is.

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 18 2014 1:30:09 PM

Purohit

India
43 Posts

Posted - Jun 19 2014 : 01:04:10 AM

Every day my sadhana frees me and fills me up with zest for life and will to experience life nd the day fully...
As the day progresses the Voice in the head muddies things up at every instance which is not to its liking ( whether it will ever find a thing/event/object/person/situation it will entirely like or approve is a questionable matter (

) and puts up a curtain between the bliss of sadhana which still exists, but it becomes like a crime to experience it when things are not so right...

Main hi mera bairi mua ( i am my own enemy)is an Indian saying often quoted by my Guru.
Thanks for the post, Jim. Less imprisoned now.