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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 10:42:41 AM
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What would be more advantageous than a perspective in which there is no threat of loss, no pressure to gain or acquire, no fear of the end, and no requirement to begin?
A place of all-encompassing neutrality. A place where nothing can go wrong. A place where the most tragic event is but a flicker on a reflective screen.
If one could abide in such a place, and still experience the motions of an ever-changing world, wouldn't that be ideal? Wouldn't that be like watching a movie--safely protected and secure as the watcher, yet somehow involved and participating?
Something in me wants to keep experiencing newness and diversity, but something in me wants to be unaffected and beyond that change. Positioned on the fulcrum of this balance, I could get the best of both worlds, and ride both sides of the see-saw.
Much like pure light refracts into multiple colors once it hits glass, the pure experiencer could distribute itself into the prismatic experience. Light becomes color. Experiencer becomes experience. Resting in and streaming through this homeostatic equilibrium of perfect incomprehensibility, one could explore, infinitely, the shades of possibility without the strain of achievement or the boredom of sameness.
Anyone? |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 11:00:50 AM
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Hi Bodhi Tree,
I get what you mean, but just constantly "watching a movie" sounds a little boring to me. Fully interactive virtual reality sounds much better to me. Full immersion with life...
Best wishes,
Jeff |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 11:17:27 AM
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LOL. Agreed. Virtual reality is a superior template.  |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 8:17:57 PM
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Sounds great on paper till we get smacked by a virtual brick wall 
But hey, there's always something to complain about. Which of the Lord's gifts will we deny?
This reminds me of when I dreamt before my opening... I don't much anymore... How I would save, restore, and add cheat codes to my dreamt experience.
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 06:34:00 AM
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This is a dangerous attitude to take, I feel. Many spiritual seekers are looking for this. It sounds like running away to me.
I'm trying to do the exact opposite. Run headlong into the pain. Bathe in it. Breathe it. Live it. Be alive! Alive!
And hey, there's no way not to :) |
Edited by - Zlarp on Feb 22 2014 06:45:59 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 10:01:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anima Deorum
Sounds great on paper till we get smacked by a virtual brick wall
But hey, there's always something to complain about. Which of the Lord's gifts will we deny?
This reminds me of when I dreamt before my opening... I don't much anymore... How I would save, restore, and add cheat codes to my dreamt experience.
Solid, Anima! Yep, the virtual brick wall hasn't dissappeared yet.  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 10:33:13 AM
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Well said, Zlarp. Spirituality can become escapism.
I know about running headlong into pain. Got a few self-imposed cigarette burns on my arm to prove it, too. But lately, I don't go seeking pain. I figure life will dole out pain in proportional measures without me trying, and I can just take it in stride.
Incidentally, here's a good AYP lesson on pain:
Lesson 168 - Q&A – Is pain a prerequisite for inner peace?
http://www.aypsite.org/168.html
In AA, it's sometimes said that pain is a "touchstone" of spiritual progress. It's kind of a macho, sacrificial angle. Sacrifice one's comfort for the sake of atonement and adhering to the will of God...there's no "easier, softer" way.
I prefer the other angle, in which Jesus said: "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I've had enough heaviness in life already. I'll take the "Akasha - Lightness of Air" sutra, thank you.
Also, I've had to keep an eye on the pain level that arises from overload and the flow of energy through my nervous system. The pressure can be high, and it can get a little too crispy.  Hence, self-pacing, and favoring stability and comfort over strain and acceleration.
To each his own. Godspeed. |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 10:53:37 AM
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| Of course, you only run headlong into the pain that life gives you. Anything else would be stupid, hahah :) |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 12:19:43 PM
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I've been known to do some stupid things. Oh wait, that's being human.  |
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Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 12:35:31 PM
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| Yeah. There'd be a lot less pain if we weren't :) |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 1:43:57 PM
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| LOL. Well played. |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2014 : 3:41:34 PM
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Weight, pain, gravity, density... The seriousness of truth: Gravitas.
Seek brutal honesty and find brutality.
Seek hard truth and find hardness.
Swallow them together and sink.
Cry out and be filled.
Not by our weapons.
But by yourself.
Surely this yoke breaks even the mightiest. But the chains are frailest of all.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2014 : 09:33:38 AM
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Bravo, Anima.
these chains of bondage
turn into kevlar shields against negativity
and the only shield i ever needed
was the eternal, unbreakable silence
that never runs out of ammunition. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2014 : 10:59:31 AM
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| My consciousness was radically shifted when I switched the color of the virtual sticky note on my computer desktop from yellow to blue. It's like a whole new world opened up. Everything I once thought to be true is no longer true. The yellow was stifling my perception to such a large extent that I didn't realize I was in a dream state. Now that the blue is gleaming so brilliantly in its virtual blueness, I am free once again. I'm sure I will be imprisoned again momentarily, but at least I can bask in the preview of the blue-shift. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2014 : 12:02:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anima Deorum
Weight, pain, gravity, density... The seriousness of truth: Gravitas.
Seek brutal honesty and find brutality.
Seek hard truth and find hardness.
Swallow them together and sink.
Cry out and be filled.
Not by our weapons.
But by yourself.
Surely this yoke breaks even the mightiest. But the chains are frailest of all.
Anima - very powerful words.
Reside and brutality dissolves...
Reside and truth flows...
Reside and you will know yourself...
Reside and you are the mightiest and there was never anything to break...
Best wishes... |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2014 : 12:06:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Bravo, Anima.
these chains of bondage
turn into kevlar shields against negativity
and the only shield i ever needed
was the eternal, unbreakable silence
that never runs out of ammunition.
Bodhi - very gifted poetry...
Chains keep one locked up and separate. Do not the shields that protect us do the same thing? |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2014 : 12:14:56 PM
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| Yes. That's why I say the only real shield is stillness, which is the unifying field of consciousness. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2014 : 10:12:05 AM
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The Buddha came down from the mountain... a wise man asked him, "Are you a God?" "Are you a man?"...the Buddha said only, "I am Awake."
That's the best ever totally 100% perfect description of Self-Realization I've ever heard. This all comes down to everything being exactly the same, only now you--the big-S Self, the Self of Self-Realization, are awake to everything, in its full Being. At all times. But NOTHING changes from how it is now--THAT is the MOMENT of awakening!! THAT very realization--Everything is exactly the same, only now I can see it clearly because now I am awake to the true nature of myself and therefore, also, of everything else. Every moment becomes a high-voltage ZAP~! of on-going discovery. I worked with a Japanese Zen Master, 45 years ago--I, being 19, had the balls to ask Master Nippo (who was the Real Deal, fully,realized Being), "Sensei, what is it like, in Enlightenment?" He was actually thoughtful for a long moment and then broke into a wide smile. "Exactly the same," he said, "only it's hard to keep from laughing all the time", and then he giggled, broke into a wider guffaw, and thence quickly into gales of laughter until tears rolled down his cheeks! Took me 40 years to get the joke, and I haven't stopped laughing since!
Michael |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2014 : 11:25:45 AM
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Hi Michael,
If one is interested in knowing what is meant by a buddha being "awake" as opposed to a "man" or a "god". I would highly recommend reading the Lotus Sutra. Buddha explains the meaning of being a buddha in great detail.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2014 : 12:05:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
The Buddha came down from the mountain... a wise man asked him, "Are you a God?" "Are you a man?"...the Buddha said only, "I am Awake."
That's the best ever totally 100% perfect description of Self-Realization I've ever heard. This all comes down to everything being exactly the same, only now you--the big-S Self, the Self of Self-Realization, are awake to everything, in its full Being. At all times. But NOTHING changes from how it is now--THAT is the MOMENT of awakening!! THAT very realization--Everything is exactly the same, only now I can see it clearly because now I am awake to the true nature of myself and therefore, also, of everything else. Every moment becomes a high-voltage ZAP~! of on-going discovery. I worked with a Japanese Zen Master, 45 years ago--I, being 19, had the balls to ask Master Nippo (who was the Real Deal, fully,realized Being), "Sensei, what is it like, in Enlightenment?" He was actually thoughtful for a long moment and then broke into a wide smile. "Exactly the same," he said, "only it's hard to keep from laughing all the time", and then he giggled, broke into a wider guffaw, and thence quickly into gales of laughter until tears rolled down his cheeks! Took me 40 years to get the joke, and I haven't stopped laughing since!
Michael
Love it! I can relate. That kind of non-sensical laughter is highly enjoyable when it supercedes the logic and analysis of the whole deal. |
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lufa1212
India
45 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2014 : 2:06:32 PM
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quote:
______________________________________________________________
Originally posted by mikkiji
The Buddha came down from the mountain... a wise man asked him, "Are you a God?" "Are you a man?"...the Buddha said only, "I am Awake."
That's the best ever totally 100% perfect description of Self-Realization I've ever heard. This all comes down to everything being exactly the same, only now you--the big-S Self, the Self of Self-Realization, are awake to everything, in its full Being. At all times. But NOTHING changes from how it is now--THAT is the MOMENT of awakening!! THAT very realization--Everything is exactly the same, only now I can see it clearly because now I am awake to the true nature of myself and therefore, also, of everything else. Every moment becomes a high-voltage ZAP~! of on-going discovery. I worked with a Japanese Zen Master, 45 years ago--I, being 19, had the balls to ask Master Nippo (who was the Real Deal, fully,realized Being), "Sensei, what is it like, in Enlightenment?" He was actually thoughtful for a long moment and then broke into a wide smile. "Exactly the same," he said, "only it's hard to keep from laughing all the time", and then he giggled, broke into a wider guffaw, and thence quickly into gales of laughter until tears rolled down his cheeks! Took me 40 years to get the joke, and I haven't stopped laughing since!
_________________________________________________________________
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Chhinnamasta
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2014 : 4:15:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Well said, Zlarp. Spirituality can become escapism.
I know about running headlong into pain. Got a few self-imposed cigarette burns on my arm to prove it, too. But lately, I don't go seeking pain. I figure life will dole out pain in proportional measures without me trying, and I can just take it in stride.
Incidentally, here's a good AYP lesson on pain:
Lesson 168 - Q&A – Is pain a prerequisite for inner peace?
http://www.aypsite.org/168.html
In AA, it's sometimes said that pain is a "touchstone" of spiritual progress. It's kind of a macho, sacrificial angle. Sacrifice one's comfort for the sake of atonement and adhering to the will of God...there's no "easier, softer" way.
I prefer the other angle, in which Jesus said: "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I've had enough heaviness in life already. I'll take the "Akasha - Lightness of Air" sutra, thank you.
Also, I've had to keep an eye on the pain level that arises from overload and the flow of energy through my nervous system. The pressure can be high, and it can get a little too crispy. Hence, self-pacing, and favoring stability and comfort over strain and acceleration.
To each his own. Godspeed.
When do you know if you're using spirituality to escape? Is that bad? I was very dedicated to my path for a long time. Then I lost my way. I found it again after a really difficult event. During the event, I spontaneously starting using mantra again and felt I was back on the path climbing up instead of around.
But maybe it's not real and I am just trying tone sale pain? I admit that having a practice and "faith" does help pain easier to bear. Now I'm wondering if I'm being false...avoiding ? How does one know? |
Edited by - Chhinnamasta on Apr 26 2014 4:17:26 PM |
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Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2014 : 8:34:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chhinnamasta
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Well said, Zlarp. Spirituality can become escapism.
I know about running headlong into pain. Got a few self-imposed cigarette burns on my arm to prove it, too. But lately, I don't go seeking pain. I figure life will dole out pain in proportional measures without me trying, and I can just take it in stride.
Incidentally, here's a good AYP lesson on pain:
Lesson 168 - Q&A – Is pain a prerequisite for inner peace?
http://www.aypsite.org/168.html
In AA, it's sometimes said that pain is a "touchstone" of spiritual progress. It's kind of a macho, sacrificial angle. Sacrifice one's comfort for the sake of atonement and adhering to the will of God...there's no "easier, softer" way.
I prefer the other angle, in which Jesus said: "My yoke is easy and my burden is light." I've had enough heaviness in life already. I'll take the "Akasha - Lightness of Air" sutra, thank you.
Also, I've had to keep an eye on the pain level that arises from overload and the flow of energy through my nervous system. The pressure can be high, and it can get a little too crispy. Hence, self-pacing, and favoring stability and comfort over strain and acceleration.
To each his own. Godspeed.
When do you know if you're using spirituality to escape? Is that bad? I was very dedicated to my path for a long time. Then I lost my way. I found it again after a really difficult event. During the event, I spontaneously starting using mantra again and felt I was back on the path climbing up instead of around.
But maybe it's not real and I am just trying tone sale pain? I admit that having a practice and "faith" does help pain easier to bear. Now I'm wondering if I'm being false...avoiding ? How does one know?
Don't worry. God will let you know. Trust Him. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2014 : 1:39:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chhinnamasta
When do you know if you're using spirituality to escape? Is that bad?
Well, Yogani has used the term "flights of fancy" to describe escapist tendencies. I've fallen prey to my own indulgences in such choices, both mental and behavioral.
I think the consistent barometer is always how I feel during the regularity of life. At work, with friends and family, sleeping in my own bed. If the purpose of spirituality is to "be here now", then I guess there's no need to escape, when the practice and results are true. Yesterday I was sitting in the backyard, playing guitar barefoot, and I saw four kittens crawling along the fenceline because my roommate had put a bowl of milk out for them. Then I went up to them and petted them a little, and re-filled the milk bowl. And that experience of playing music and feeding some tiny creatures was quite sublime, in its own right.
I wish for the big, big fireworks of higher dimensions and beings, etc., but what about the kittens, you know? Have I maximally appreciated and served this realm? Probably not. So I bounce back and forth between the tension of striving and contentment. Cycling through striving and contentment. Striving and contentment. It's just a linear spiral into realization.
I recently read that realization is the combination of knowledge and experience. And to quote Morpheus from The Matrix: There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path.
And so it is. |
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