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Holy
796 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 12 2014 : 8:42:41 PM
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Hello everyone,
I wanted to bring this out before it gets lost :) It got longer than I thought it would be :P
There is a man, I like him very much, named Hans Neukomm. This man was my answer several years ago after heaving read the Autobiography of a Yogi and after my INTENSE wish to get to kow the kriya yogic techniques. Somehow life lead me to his homepage: www.kriyayoga.com
But to my surprise I couldn't find the techniques, only his hints that it is there somewhere, but one has to find it! And that this finding it would be a godly happening after having read all the homepage and all its lessons of love. It took me 6 months to read through the homepage and then by luck (grace) find the entry to the diksha page :) This happened about 9 years ago!! Me being about 18 years old.
I started practicing the kriya that was described there, but somehow did skip over some of its elements, especially maha mudra and also yoni mudra. Navi was done here and there sparingly, my main interest was the kriya pranayama. But as instructed by his site I started with the mental variation aka OM only.
Increasing the rounds of mental kriya pranayama aka what you would call Gurunath's omkar kriya or OM-technique, intense transformation started to happen. All senses got alive, intense energy started to express and moments of intense joy and bliss started to sneak into daily happening. Then being young and empowered by the increasing energy, the amount of mental kriya pranayamas started to increase to 24, 36, up to 108. Not going with the recommendation of Hans, I increased the amounts week by week instead of month by month because all I wanted is to quickly become one with god. Not in 5 years like Hans, but why not in some months was the mindset. Why not today? :D
Then the problems started: Extreme burning in the chakras, intense energy flows, very stiff body. The increased chakra activity started to refine the perceptions to intense degrees. My own thoughts were suddenly visibly floaing in the air which frightened me because back then the identification with the thoughts were huge! So how can they continue floating in the air, do they belong to themselves and who am I looking at them? Crazy insights started, a little too much for a boy back then :) But all of this was ok. The real problems came with the nights, suddenly astral beings were interacting with me and this was too frightening.
Back then I did not know that kriya yoga must be practiced with all its elements and in correct amounts :) So the continuing search, reading and then landing at AYP happened. AYP has expanded my view about spiritual practices endlessly. The story of how it went with AYP some here know.
At some point, Gurunath picked me up. It was summer 2009. Before going to him, 2-3 months before I had restarted with Hans kriya but again not doing the whole set and only the mental kriya pranayama. I wanted to prepare for the first meeting with Gurunath and surely it did help a lot. Back then I also practiced intense amounts of nadi sodhana and bhastrika with kumbhaka. Gurunath's kriya was a blessing. In the beginning I practiced the whole sequence, but later on skipped his maha mudra and other parts like paravastha etc. So what was the result? Again instablity. Adding maha mudra changed the whole thing!! :)
Later having tested out other spiritual systems, kriyayogic variants etc. it became clear that there is a reason why it is a set of practices. They are not options but a must for the whole thing to work. Then some of the AYP members here have started the great quest of exploring kriya yoga to find the original of Lahiri. Some even went visiting Ashok Singh, some do have intentions to visit Shinbedu Lahriri. After reading Will Power's report it made click here that what Hans teaches is most probably Lahiri's original kriya. And now after further investigation I feel like Hans kriya is identical to Shibendu Lahiri's and that it is indeed the one original kriya yoga of Lahiri, available online in front of our nose since 1997!!! :))) And we all succesfully missed to recognize it :D
As lately some comments here came regarding Lahiri's orig kriya, actually it is nothing else than Hans kriya yoga which one can download via the torrent system. Due to maintanance costs Hans decided to make an offline version of his homepage and clean it and make it more organized and easy to read. Here you can find more instructions on how to download the homepage including the diksha page to kriya yoga: http://www.kriyayoga.com/Spiritual_....UvwD2MFeOc0
What to say, ~5 weeks of the practice of Hans kriya as an experience report:
This time I did it correctly, no overdoing and all practices as given by Hans :) Due to the years long practice of Gurunath's kriya I started with ~ the same amounts of kriya pranayama. This means twice daily 36. And also this time I directly went into the second stage of the kriya pranayama which is OM + breath. Back thn I could not breath in and out long enough, which has changed over the years, so the practice was very easy right from day one.
In short, Hans kriya consists of
1. Maha mudra (preparing the body, heating up Muladhara)
2. Navi kriya (addressing Manipura at the navel and the spine)
3. Kriya pranayama (adressing chakras 1 to 6 with mantra and breath)
4. Yoni mudra (pratyahara and dharana into kutastha, leading to meditation and samadhi)
All in all this yoga is complete, it takes on all the limbs of yoga except Yama and Niyama which Hans as a supplement does deliver by his teachings of love :)
Hans has left out talabya and kechari mudra with the explanation, that god can be realized without it aswell. He says that it can help, but that it needs to be relearned in every incarnation, so that it would be better to keep the focus on melting the karma in God's love by the practice of kriya and the application of the teachings of love.
Starting the practice of Hans kriya, it became clear how simple it is in comparison to the later alterations of kriya yoga. There is no visualization, you have four simple techniques which are like an atom bomb in cause and effect :) And nothing is really missing, except the crown adressing of Gurunath's or Hariharananda's kriyas. But if one would not know the crown effects one would not look for them anyway and the joy of kutastha is unbelievable :D
Practicing one session I experienced a peak state of Gurunath's left over kriya effects and Hans kriya, entering a strong nondual state based upon intense activity of kutastha. The nondual state does not dissolve space as it happens when the crown is active. It is more like you are highly centered in the physical body but the physical body expands to become the whole space and time. Not that its boundaries get lost, but instead of the physical body being your body, the whole space-time becomes your body with the center in the human body. Hard to describe :D
Then this joy of now sneaking and exploding in again and again. And then the rememberance of how much ENERGY and POWER this kriya produces. This can lead to excessive usage of the body and mind, making intense movements, intense activities that can get a little unhealthy aswell. The good news is, together with maha mudra and navi and yoni these moments of imbalance were in the amounts of seconds or maximum 1-2 minutes few times per day. Ater 3-4 days the physical body had adapted and the whole combination became smooth 99% of the day.
After one week Gurunath's left over effects had diminished enough to get a clear picture of Hans kriya and the result in daily life. Even though I was heavily ill due to some viruses, te body mind was very strong and could still do lots of things. The perception started to refine in ways we know of mantra practices in general. The joy of now was getting more and more intense, pronounced and make this body-mind here jump around out of joy for hours :D Insights of Hans, Shibendu and so on started to appear and could be verified as true. Among them that this kriya leads fastly into GOD-contact and that from there on the guidance becomes clear and easy. With Gurunaths kriya I communed more with Gurunath as one with God, while with this kriya I communed with presence as God. While adressing presence via other methods like awareness based meditation did remain quite impersonal as a peace and bliss presence, the communion with presence after the practice of Hans kriya was more personal. It was like presence was the person, speaking to you with all and everything in a personal way, not indirectly or impersonal but like me and you. Hard to describe :)
It feels like this happens due to the third eye activity aka the intense kutastha adressing at the end of the practice. Even though there is nonduality, duality is still there. It is nonduality in duality. Space remains, time remains, savikalpa is the dominant samadhi. While addressing the crown nonduality is so refined that space and time dissolve, concepts of body, seperation, structure all dissolve in impersonal transcendental peace-bliss. This kind of transcendence did not happen with Hans' kriya. But the good part is, the whole thing was VERY stable and balanced and the progression into ever more intense and complete god communion became very easy due to the intense amount of energy that was generated. Thanks to maha mudra and navi and yoni all remained pretty smooth.
Then after 3 weeks the try to increase to 72 kriya pranayamas twice daily. The result was, wooow, exactly as with Gurunath's kriya, the whole thing starts to get interesting between 72-144 kriyas daily :D In both kriyas this is the range where obviously the third layer of kundalini becomes active, resting in enormuous ecstatic responses in the spine, heating up of Muladhara and the rise of this ecstatic energies to the brain center. Walking around after the kriya feels like one has entered into a different reality, strong, vital, graced by gods joy and guidance, living like an intense wild and rebellous child of god. And so much of joy and so much of love started to express though this body and mind that it was clear this is the bomb :D
The same also does happen with Gurunath's kriya in this amount range, but there are two big differences. The one is, Gurunath's kriya takes about 50% more practice time for the same overall intensity but on the other side it is much smoother aswell. Hans kriya gets a little intense and tense for the body-mind, means minor burning in the chakras and nadis and unbalanced intense body-mind-movements over the edge can happen. But ok, my fault, as Hans suggestion is always to increase in 12er steps per month and what happened here was a doubling from one day to another. Gurunath's kriya remains smooth no matter how fast you scale up, it is the king in this regard, but it also takes more practice time.
A big suprise for me was, that I could continue studying, doing daily work with intense energy and joy backed up without having problems in the execution of the tasks. This was different back then where other kriya elements were skipped. Even though a massive amount of mantra is put into the chakras, due to the combination of body movements, breath and attention movement the whole thing is assimilated nicely by the body. Doing the kriya pranayama without breath is more intense, but gets very fast very unhealthy here. So adding the breath to the mantra was the magic combination and formula for smoothness and overall for the working of this kriya yoga.
Some days into 72 twice daily life somwhoe managed to skip the evening session and still the kriya effect continued till the next day. Because of the massive amount of mantra, sleep is reduced, time is expanded and the practice session itself feels very long. Remaining in the present moment becomes automatic and the joy and bliss makes clear, that the progressive direction is nr.1 :D
1 hour of Hans' kriya =~ 1.5 hour of Gurunath's kriya
Hans' kriya: Strong kutastha focus, more mental energy, more intense life happening possible without fatigue
Gurunath's kriya: Balanced chakra focus including crown, more pranic energy, more precise penetrationg of sushumna, most smoothness.. More sleep need, less mental energy than Hans kriya
Hariharananda's kriya as taught by Manga, Peter: Strong crown focus, less mental and pranic energy than the other two, less rejuvenation of the body, most need for sleep, but the fastest entry into nondual enlightenement
With Gurunath's and Hsns' kriya you somehow become a small god, not yet enlightened, but not a normal human anymore aswell. With Hariharananda's kriya (KYI style) you remain human, but enter enlightenement very fast. This at least was the repeated experience here.
All kriya yoga variants have advantages. Disadvantags only appear when comparing, otherwise if you do not know, there is no problem ;) All remain smooth and healthy when practiced correctly as adviced. The self pacing knowledge of AYP is still valuable at all times :)
So why was Lahiri's kriya in font of our eyes for so many years and nonone has recognized it? The reason may be, Hans has packaged it a little differently. He is against the guru disciple relationship and more for direct god contact. God = guru. Among all the kriya gurus he speaks well of Shibendu and suggests to learn the kriya from him if it must be a physical guru. Otherwise he directs to his own teaching and making god the only and primal guru to be found in nirvikalpa samadhi in kutastha after some years of intense kriya yoga practice together with the application of the teachings of love :)
I loved Hans for the reason that he had practiced this kriya for 5 years and that's it, job finished :D According to him it takes about 20-30k hours of this kriya to reach godrealization. Some calculation for you:
20k - 30k = ~ 833 - 1250 days = ~ 2,3 - 3,4 years of nonstop practice :D
According to Gurunath it takes about 3 years if you practice 24 hours per day which would match this number of 20-30k :) So deviding this number further into practice amounts:
12h per day would be =~ 4,6 - 6,8 years
8h per day would be =~ 6,9 - 10,2 years
4h per day would be =~ 13,8 - 20,4 years
We know a number from Pranabananda, who practiced 8 hours per day for 6 years.
My practice routine with twice daily 36 took about 1h per session, which is like peanuts in comparison to what I practiced with Gurunath's kriya :P But it was pretty nice! Satisfaction was very high and it felt like this can go a long route. It would obviously be enough for reaching god union in this life, but who can wait so long :D Twice daily 72 took about 1,5h per session = ~3 hours. It was in line with what I practiced most of the times and this was a little intense already. For the same overall intensity with Gurunaths kriya you are at about 2,25 hours per session.
Here at AYP people are used to practice 10-30 minutes per session, so these numbers are quite high. But the difference is, these amounts can be practiced pretty easily as the kriyas give immense energy to make it more and more an easy thing. Secondly those who know the nice overloads of DM will be suprised that Lahiri's orig kriya with lots of mantra usage remains pretty smooth for at least this body-mind here with all the nice mantra effects of efficiency, intensity, strength and power in daily life and so much joy and bliss.
A lot of people speak badly about Hans on the net, the main reason for this may be that he broke the rule of giving the kriyas orally and directly and that he does not mention a lineage. We all know that Yukteswar, Hariharananda, Gurunath have made changes to kriya yoga in this or that way. And when practicing their kriyas, wonderful things happen. At least for me it is clear, the moment someone reaches the goal of yoga with a set of practices, he is authorized enough to be a source of teaching that yoga. Shibendu is also said to not be allowed to teach it, and yet you see his godliness in the youtube vids, his extreme joy explosions. People practice his kriya and also become one with god (see Hans :). Gurunath also is a special case, hinting at his lineage in some youtube vids, but because of his alteration and unique combo you will not hear much lineage speech from him. I love and repsect all those who make an effort to help people reaching the goal of yoga after having reached it themselves.
Yogani and Hans do share a lot of things, both do exist similiarly long on the net and both have taught a set of yogic practices and both have a forum (Hans' forum is down since 2 years together with the old complete homepage, but one can read it offline after the torrent download). Both do answer mails, even though Hans prefers a phone call for reasons of efficiency. Both have written directly from their experience and godly insights and both do support the practitioners of their yogic system very much. Yogani more through the forums and mails, Hans more directly via phone and also very directly by his presence.
Several times I had the impression Hans was with me with his presence and fom time to time giving some kind of a love lesson :D He loves to make you see and learn more about love and god and also seems to be very much personally active with practitoners of his kriya. And this beyond the scope of his physical body. If one focuses upon Hans, he comes and helps, that was my experience several times.
So why I'm back at Gurunath's kriya, God alone must know. He once again came in the night and picked me up with his pranapath aka breathing through my spinal chord several times. And instantly I was back to his kriya :P What can I do if he does not let me :D Nothing speaks against the orig kriya of Lahiri, but obviously here some kind of intense connection with a guru has happened, nothing can be done as it seems.
Still I wanted to make clear, that Lahiri's orig kriya can be learned by Hans and that it works VERY NICELY and that it is pretty much in line with AYP Yoga in terms of efficiency and online availability. What is clearly missing with Hans' kriya is a group of people like in this forum. An active community did never build around him, which may change over the years perhaps, who knows.
Here comes also an invitation to all those who have problems with DM but are not satisfied with AYP breath meditation. Give Hans kriya a try, at least for this body mind here it works very nicely. My amount tip for AYP practitoners would be to start with the suggested Hans amounts of 12 kriya pranayamas. The whole set may take about 30-40 minutes. With 36 kriyas being somewhere around 1 hour including 5 min rest.
That's it from here :)
Peace and love to all!
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Edited by - Holy on Feb 12 2014 9:04:09 PM |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 06:47:45 AM
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Holy,
Does he have any of the higher kriyas on here? The last time I was on the sight, he had only first level kriya. I thought the higher kriyas were developed (and needed) to break through the 3 knots, and so that one would not have to do thousands and thousands of first kriyas to reach the goal. Someone told me recently that Lahiri had said (somewhere) that thokar (second or third kriya) is the "key to the temple".
Also, have you experienced any states of breathlessness while doing this kriya?
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 12:31:19 PM
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Hello Holy,
I'm going to try Hans' Kriya for a few days/weeks. I have several questions though:
1. Would it be ok to add Kechari, Kutashta focus and the Ujjayi kind of breath during Kriya Pranayama?
2. In Navi Kriya instructions Hans says that Manipura Chakra is different from Navel Chakra, while recognized yogic texts such as Satyananda's Kundalini Tantra claim that what Hans calls Navel Chakra is just Manipura's ksetram or contact point and that Manipura is located in the spine directly behind this ksetram, not above as Hans wrote in his instructions. Furthermore his Navi Kriya seems to be simplified compared to what is known from other sources: he doesn't instruct to tap the navel with the interlocked fingers during the OM repetition. What do you think about this?
3. During Jyoti Mudra there is no pranayama being performed and no mantra being repeated. Is this normal?
Thank you. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 4:07:21 PM
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Hi RSS,
he says that the higher kriyas will be revealed over time directly. Due to my own experiences regarding these kind of revelations after greater amounts of kriya I have no doubt that it will be so. But as far as I could get it, Hans did practice the first kriya alone with full success. I know the thokar is said to be the "key to the temple" which would also be in line with what e.g. Ramana Maharshi says, that after the route to the top is completed one has to descend back to the heart. Hans surely knows more about this :)
When it comes to the breathless state, due to the immense amount of OMs, it did not come as fast as it comes with Gurunath's kriya. But when it happened the effect was much more intense aswell, very dramatic in comparison. It started to happen more often after the third week when the kriyas went to 72 twice daily. After 4-5 weeks it happened quite often with greater lengths. But it is similiar with Gurunths kriya aswell, after 72 kriyas breathless states start to become a topic.
@Andrew
1. I'm not the ideal person to ask these questions, but I have started without kechari the first 2 weeks, then added it (level 2 and 3). Regarding kutastha focus and Ujjayi, go with your intuition or better ask Hans :)
2. Yes, the chakras and adressing with this kriya is obviously a little different to what we were used to by the lineages after Yukteswar. They focused more on the sushumna nadi, while this kriya focuses on the back part of the chakras. Different schools here speak of a different height. Gurunath, KYI etc. have their chakras in the same height, while e.g. TAO based systems have the back chakras more in line with what you see by Hans and also Shibendu. And yes the front navel is the kshetram of Manipura which is within the sushumna nadi. But the back part is also some kind of back-kshetram. According to some schools it is a little bit higher placed, according to others on the same height. I have practiced Hans kriya as is, so took his points. To my own perception, I can feel Manipura's back also more on the same height. The placing of his second chakra (also a little higher) really has a strong feedback here, while the height of Yogananda's, Gurunath's, KYI's 2nd chakra is also very intensly responsive and was several times the source of intene energy flow. So what to say, the reported overall kriya effect from post one applies to his kriya as explained by him.
Regarding navi kriyas interlocked fingers, can't comment on it. Gurunath has also some finger play in this :)
3. Yes, it is actually a meditation technique with intense effects here. Kundalini wakes up enormously when the concentration becomes motionless and the ecstasy reaches paranormal levels in the spine. When it reaches kutastha some kind of savikalpa samadhi happend here several times, each time getting more intense. The known golden ring, dark blue center was seen very often and more and more intensly. After 1-2 weeks it was seen with open eyes aswell, so it is really different from the YMK style yoni mudra we know from AYP and other kriya schools. The witness gets developed also intensly. My hint here is, when after some minutes the arms get tired, bring them down for 1-2 minutes and keep up the concentration. Then bring the arms back to its position. 2-4 times this was needed for the 15 mins. The more kriyas pranayamas were done before, the longer the arms stayed up :P After some time the arms were not felt anymore at all, it was really like Hans says, that they were held.
Perhaps we can bring Hans here to this thread, but this man loves efficiency over everything, for that reason I have not done it. Perhaps when it gets more interesting and questions gather, we can concentrate them and ask him as a group :)
Peace and happy practice! :D
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 6:10:13 PM
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| Thank you Holy. Very interesting and motivating your experiences. I can't wait to attend Shibendu's initiation to see what he says about chakra location. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 6:55:02 PM
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You can also watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RwdVreZ3k
then you will see, they are 1:1 to what Hans describes. Also Shibendu speaks about Laya yoga as the result of kriya yoga (Hans aswell :) Hans recommends Shibendu and both are not much of a fan regarding other authorities except the highest truth, so these were the hints for me that Hans may have learned his kriya from Shibendu. In the end what counts is the result of the practice and that is obviously very good :)
Are you going to London for this @Andrew?
Peace |
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 7:22:28 PM
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| Yes, I plan to attend his initiation when he comes to London. Thanks again :). |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 10:12:18 AM
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Here some additional material:
Facebook page of Hans: https://www.facebook.com/God.Spiritual.Treasures
He is posting his own insights to various topics. Most of them are about love. Some posts are also to help and spread his offline-webpage via the torrent system.
Scribd. - page of Hans: http://de.scribd.com/hneukomm
There you can find some of his small e-books. E.g. he loves to produce his own food and gives nice tipps about organic farming.
Peace and love to all :) |
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2014 : 09:55:57 AM
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Holy,
Thanks for sharing your info and experiences.I downloaded the spiritual file from ky.com but there is no info on the kriyas in the files except the kriya pranayama technique and the rest is just pics and ebooks.
i want to know what should be the speed of the kriya breath? if we have to place the mantra in each chakra,it has to be real slow and inhaling and at the same time placing the om in the chakras seems to be very difficult.Please share how to go about it and also if the breath has to be ujjayi.Please mentioned your email id for future communication.
Thanks. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2014 : 12:44:46 PM
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Suave. May I suggest you learn the offerings of this site AYP?
Permit me to give you some reasons and resources first ok? then we will revisit this.
The description of the individual Kriya's are incorrect on that site as is the sequence reported earlier in the OP's Post.
Sequence matters.
Holy I have some things to discuss with you in private that should help you understand this is not a discrediting post, you just lacked information when you made it back then as did I so we have not discussed this earlier. This has since changed.
Please contact me when you get a chance.
Suave:
Since you are in India and if you are truly interested in learning Kriya you would do far better to learn in person, if you can. Shibendu Lahiri is available in India. You might consider learning from him. Ashoke Chatterjee is also in India as is Shailendra Sharma.
These three are directly descended from Lahiri Mahasaya. All three were students of Shibendu's Father the Grandson of Lahiri Mahasaya.
If you feel drawn to Hariharanandas teachings then Kriya Yoga Institute is in India also but it is different than what the others teach.
Hariharananda the founder of KYI above is descended from SriYukteswar and other direct pupils of Lahiri Mahasaya and was a friend of the Lahiri Family.
Here is a web page with some resources http://webspace.webring.com/people/lc/chelab4/
You can discover more about all via a quick web search.
One thing that needs to be understood, websites and books are not the way to learn Kriya there are far too many intricate details that need to be learned in person.
All of the current publications concerning Kriya as of this date 2014-08-28 are full of mistakes and errors as well as their respective authors own personal tastes conclusions and in some cases outright imagination without practical firsthand experience.
Some of the books are written by what would be tantamount to a financially bankrupt person selling books on how to be a financial success. In other words not the kind of person one would seek financial advice from so it follows here as well.
Ennio alone escapes this broad category in my opinion because he states right up front that his free online book is strictly about his own research and personal conclusions and as such he deserves the highest of respect and regard for saying so right up front.
Now if you do not want to make this kind of effort that is ok too. May I suggest you learn the offerings of this site AYP?
AYP system is designed for people who are more comfortable learning from online and books and unlike Kriya you will have a support system in place with this site and Yogani the owner of this site and author of the inexpensive books of AYP is responsive to all who take up his practice and approach him with good manners.
In my opinion you will get far more out of the AYP site and system than Hans website.
quote:
Originally posted by Suave
Holy,
Thanks for sharing your info and experiences.I downloaded the spiritual file from ky.com but there is no info on the kriyas in the files except the kriya pranayama technique and the rest is just pics and ebooks.
i want to know what should be the speed of the kriya breath? if we have to place the mantra in each chakra,it has to be real slow and inhaling and at the same time placing the om in the chakras seems to be very difficult.Please share how to go about it and also if the breath has to be ujjayi.Please mentioned your email id for future communication.
Thanks.
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2014 : 9:56:37 PM
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Hi Suave!
First of all,if you just started out with your research about Kriya,i would kindly suggest to read Ennio's book.Can be found here http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/Eng_Home.html
Book and email communication with Ennio helped me alot.By the time i got Kriya diksha i had some idea about Kriya and it was easier to grasp what was explained to me during diksha.
Another book that i found to be a must read is "Purana Purusha;Yogiraj Sri Shamachurun Lahiri" by Sri Ashoke Kumar Chatterji.For you,it's simple to get it from Yogiraj book center of Kolkata.
As you are in India,it's not much of hustle for you to go and get Kriya diksha.As EK said,you can go to Kashi and get it from Sibendu Lahiri,or to Ashoke Chatterji in one of YSSM centers(headquarters in Kolkata)or to Kriya Yoga Institute..
I did Kriya for about 4 months,based on Ennio's book and his kind guidance.But after all,i just felt that i should get proper initiation.Now i'm back to 1 set of Pranayam and according number of rest of Kriyas.And practice it self does feel different after i got diksha.
All the best!
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2014 : 01:08:18 AM
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Hello EK,
Thanks a Lot for your views and your suggestions.Actually I am not trying to learn ky online or from books,I have been initiated in ky from the Hariharananda school.I agree with you about Ennio and I have read his boom and I am trying to just gather info on different kriya schools and teachers and trying to figure out the differences and variations among them.My main query is about the kriya breath with placing om in each chakra which is a LM technique and I want to incorporate that in my routine.I want to know exactly how to practice it from someone who has experience doing it,that's the reason I want to interact with people who have had ky initiation and practical experience.Once again thanks,please let me know your email I'd if that's ok with you.
Suave.
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Edited by - Suave on Aug 29 2014 10:15:30 AM |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2014 : 08:33:57 AM
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| Suave I am an initiate of the verifiable lineages KYI. SRF And the Lahiri Family line. Contact me in private for further discussion. While you are signed in with your username and password to this site click on my Username and it will take you to my contact info, posting email on sites is a sure way to accumulate spam. FYI EMAIL IS SAME AS USERNAME JUST ADD @gmail.com. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on Aug 29 2014 10:20:36 AM |
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2014 : 10:12:43 AM
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Sol,
Thanks for the suggestion.I have been initiated in KY and I also have read Ennios book.I want to add the kriya breath with om in my routine but I am having difficulty practicing it.Could you please help me out with the same if you have been practicing it? Also if you could let me know who initiated you and what is your kriya routine?
Thanks. |
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2014 : 6:40:32 PM
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Suave you are welcome.I'm sure EK can help you out,he is practicing Kriya longer than me.Drop him an email!
Also,Ennio is very kind guy and i am sure that he can and will help you out if you drop him an email.He would be most competent person that you can reach easily to give you some answers.He was both with Hariharananda and Sibendu Lahiri for years.His email id can be found on his web site.
All the best! |
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2014 : 01:16:30 AM
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| Thanks guys. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2014 : 12:34:52 PM
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Hi Suave,
see path: \Spiritual_Treasures\god\kriyayoga.com\english\on_your_wings\kriyapranayama.htm
There is an animated graphics to have a feel for the timings. But in the beginning you may need to go faster up and faster down.
All in all the question would be, to which kriya yoga routine do you want to add the om-breath? Adding it to KYI kriya we have already tested with EK, results are extreme savikalpa samadhi, but highly unbalanced :P I have tried to do all kinds of combos, ultimately, the package as delivered and practiced through by someone seemed to be the most stable for me.
And regarding the sequence, Hans like Hariharananda has adapted the sequence more in tune to what is described by Patanjali, while the classic kriya sequence brings maha mudra more to the end to come down and integrate the high voltage so to speak. Gurunath's kriya is more in line with the classic sequence, but he has switched the place of Yoni Mudra with Maha Mudra to enhance the perception of the third eye as he says.
Peace and happy practice to all! :) |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2014 : 7:46:11 PM
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Hi Holy Since you have brought up my experiences I will reply over in the Kriya the Misunderstood Yoga thread as to maintain continuity.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....whichpage=12
What you have written however is not correct I will explain more on page 12 quote:
Adding it to KYI kriya we have already tested with EK, results are extreme savikalpa samadhi, but highly unbalanced
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 04:11:38 AM
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Hi Holy,
Thanks for tin Hans link.Now I have a simple question,is there a pause at each chakra to place om mantra,is it with breath or just om?
The animation there shows at lease a 5 second pause at each chakra and as mentioned there,each cycle should be of 20 to 30 seconds which would be the case if there is a pause for a couple of seconds on each chakra.So if it is placing om without breath it's no problem but if it is to be done with inhalation along with the breath,then it seems to be difficult and I can't get the hang of it.Please clarify this for me.
Thanks.
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Edited by - Suave on Sep 01 2014 06:59:27 AM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 08:50:26 AM
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Hi Suave,
as said, in the beginning you may need to be faster, but over time the capacity to breath slower increases. Back then I did not pause fully at the chakra, just breathed slow enough so that the chakra did get its OM precise enough :)
All in all the results of the first post were with maximum 2 secs at each chakra, so Hans' very slow OM-breath has not been reached here. Spinal breathing without OM is much slower here, but OM needs extra oxygen/prana, so it automatically will be faster :)
Still the question, to which kriya routine do you plan to add it? Mixing things up will have nice effects but seem not to work out in the longterm, at least not for me. Best is to practice the kriya set as it is, as also explained by EK in the other thread :)
Peace and happy practice friend! |
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Suave
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 01:44:22 AM
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Holy,thanks for that information.I was contemplating about adding this long breath kriya and navi kriya to my KYI routine after I read Ennios book.Thanks to EK and you both for your info and advice about not mixing up the routines and i understand that and have decided to just stick to my KYI routine.
I have read in other topics about how it is difficult and sometimes not possible to have access to people from organisations about kriya and that is one of the reasons I was contemplating about adding.I read how not many from KYI are not initiated in more than 2 kriyas and they don't give higher initiations.I was initiated 5 years ago in a group and I had inquired about initiation into the second kriya but was told that it would be after many years of the first kriya practice.Also it is difficult to contact anybody for assistance or if thereis any query or doubt about the kriyas and the uncertainty that you may not be initiated into higher kriyas.
Regards.
Ennios book also made a big impact and that he is such an experienced person and a great guy who will help when required.Well,all said I think for now i will stick to my routine.
Regards. |
Edited by - Suave on Sep 03 2014 02:05:24 AM |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 07:35:46 AM
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Hi Suave glad to hear our communications have been of help. I would still recommend you avail yourself of the existing teachers mentioned since you are in India, for those of us in other countries it is almost impossible.
Another reason to consider is that these teachers are all getting pretty old, for example Shibendu is in his upper 70's and the opportunity may get missed. Later is not always guaranteed.
In the end it is up to you to decide but I caution against going by what other people have to say about a teacher good or bad the best way is to discover for yourself otherwise you know what happens to a person that only hears one side of a story?
They only hear one side of the story. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2014 : 4:06:33 PM
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Hi Suave,
my advice on mixing practices is to follow YOUR inner guide. I have mixed practices from different Kriya schools, and added Ujjaji during Pranayama and Thokar without formal initiation of an "authorized acharya" with improved results in the lasts months, but for this much previous preparation was done (incremental routine of Navi Kriya and a simultaneous one of Maha Mudra and Pranayama for instance).
Of all the people, there are only a few that get enlightened without doing anything and they will tell you, hey you don't need to do anything.
For others, the first Kriya was enough, so they will tell you, hey, you only need the first kriya and perhaps even not much practice. (Note that Lahiri Mahasaya didn't say this, he said that everything is possible with the first Kriya; One can experiment and understand that it's true, but it takes more time).
I think that for the mayority of people, Thokar (in due time) is a neccessity.
By the way, in Europe KYI gives the first part of the second Kriya initiation after 2-3 years of continuous practice. For the second part you must wait. I think that the belief that they spread that getting an Initiation into 3rd or above kriyas is almost impossible is not helpful at all for kriyavans.
The Guru is in you
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Edited by - Will Power on Sep 08 2014 6:08:41 PM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2014 : 6:29:41 PM
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Hi all,
had been with the KYI group and it seems like the moment one gets the 4th kriya, one becomes a teacher. Looking at the teachers of their site, you can count the people having learned the 4th kriya or above.
A friend of mine, C, who has practiced for 24 years, is since long initiated into the 1st, 2a, 2b, 2c. He said, that he doesn't want any more kriyas as they are already too many for him :P Not that he had practiced very continuously, but he had some nice aura conductive for spontanous realizations happening along our trip :)
Atmavidyananda mentioned, that the first kriya is more than enough for cosmic consiousness and that it does not happen if KYI is practiced in small amounts. With the added kriyas the amounts rise. He said it would also be possible to increase first kriya to get the same. But as Will Power said, noone can know, he himself for sure is practicing all 6 kriyas.
I had also good results with complementing a practice if important elements were missing, but whenenver the samadhis got very crazy and there is too much mind-decision in the practice, the grace of a master cannot work through you as nicely as it could if you just practiced that one kriya and be focused upon him.
There were many incidents where the samadhi here reached such beyond control state of bordering unknown surrenderness into who knows beyond, where Gurunath was shining through and giving comfort to let go fully in that moment. I also remember being in similiar states of mixed practices where it felt like I need to handle it myself and no help was in sight. When it comes to the ciritcal state, the real value of one technique one master becomes clear. For the gross and subtler karmic cleansing mixes seem to work to some degree, depending on person, karmic structure and continuity of efficient practices.
To add some info to the thread, it would be perhaps interesting to note, that even though Hans seemed to have learned his kriya from Shibendu, there are some subtle differences which may be of importance. Without going into any detail, the sequence of practices of Shibendu is the same to Gurunaths, while Hans like Hari have changed them to be more in tune with Patanajli's sequencing. Also it seems like the original kriya as taught by Shibendu as also mentioend several times by Gurunath, is the one which goes through the sushumna nadi.
For these reasons even though I had very nice results with Hans kriya, visiting Shibendu would be the best idea for those who are attracted to Lahiri's kriya. Oter than that Gurunath's kriya is 90% Shibendu's with 10% tuning from Hariharananda.
Peace and happy practice friends! 
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2014 : 6:37:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy
1. I'm not the ideal person to ask these questions, but I have started without kechari the first 2 weeks, then added it (level 2 and 3).
Namaste Holy,
I would like to hear a little more about the place of kechari mudra in your practice. By "level 2 and 3" do you mean Yogani's "stage 2 and 3"? I've sometimes wondered what draws you here to the AYP Support Forum. Is it partly the commonality of Kechari Mudra practice? What is your sense of the relative signifance of Kechari Mudra in the context of your overall practice routine?
Thanks,
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Sol Invictus
91 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2014 : 6:55:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy
... visiting Shibendu would be the best idea for those who are attracted to Lahiri's kriya.
Peace and happy practice friends!
Hi Holy,
i would add Ashoke Kumar Chatterjee to the list.Ashoke Baba is the real deal.After reading Ennio's experience with Sibendu,i must say i'm skeptic about him.
Cheers! |
Edited by - Sol Invictus on Sep 25 2014 7:10:17 PM |
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Lahiri's kriya yoga by Hans Neukomm
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